brought at 18 years old not home grown player?

Does anyone know the exact rule about home grown players? Do they have to stay for exactly 3 years before 21 birthday? I find that no players brought at the age 18 will become home grown player in FM 2011 (as seen from the "due date"). But in FM 2009 and 2010, they would most certainly become home grown player. Is that just another bug in FM 2011 (there are too many to mention!)? But I encountered the same problem seversal years ago, like in FM 2008 or 2007 or something, I forget the exact year - you had to buy a player when he was 17 or younger in order for him to be home grown. Now, the same problem happens again in FM 2010. Neymar won't be home grown as he was brought at 18. Too bad! It is confusing.

Depends on the country.

I think in Portugal (where I am with Boavista), he must be at the club for three years before their 21st, I believe, so that would mean if you bought a player who was 18 years and 2 days, and had not lived in Portugal, he will never become homegrown.

It is not a bug. The rule described in the original post and by The Carnivorous Badger above is the correct rule for England. The player must be based in England (or at the club) for 3 years before they turn 21. This means that they have to join the club before their 18th birthday. If they are already 18 when they join, then there is less than 3 years remaining before they turn 21, so they can not count as homegrown for that club/country.

Do they have to be a full professional for three years or should youth contracts count towards the three (in real life, rather than FM)?

For example, if an English born player moves abroad at 18, then returns at 21 could he be considered homegrown? What about if he's loaned out to a foreign club?

It is not a bug. The rule described in the original post and by The Carnivorous Badger above is the correct rule for England. The player must be based in England (or at the club) for 3 years before they turn 21. This means that they have to join the club before their 18th birthday. If they are already 18 when they join, then there is less than 3 years remaining before they turn 21, so they can not count as homegrown for that club/country.

Then how comes that in FM 2010, all players brought at 18 (even the last day of his 18) will finally become home-grown? bug in FM 2010 then? I mean for England.

Besides, then no players from south america or other countries with restriction to young players can become home grown? Is that real?

I bought a Brazilian, he will be a home grown for me in 2014. Signed him at age 17++, arrived at the club in the Jan transfer window aged 18yrs 13 days.

Besides, then no players from south america or other countries with restriction to young players can become home grown? Is that real?

See, here are a couple things to remember:

1. To be a homegrown (at club) player, the player should have played for you for at least 3 FULL years between 15-21 (as stated by UEFA here). So if he joined at an age of 18 yrs 1 day, he CANNOT become homegrown at any point.

2. Players can sign for your club only when your transfer window is open (except for free agents I think). So, if the South American (or African) player you signed was born anytime during your transfer window (for e.g. for Switzerland between 15 Jan - 15 Feb) then he will join your club on his 18th birthday, and will become home-grown after 3 yrs, but if he was born before or after that period, then he won't. I have a couple of soon to be Home-Grown African youngsters, and a South American who will join me in the next transfer window on his 18th birthday.

You may be right about this not being the case in FM2010. I do remember all my 18 yr old signings becoming Home-grown in that game, but I think this year they've enforced the rule much more strictly.

how about a player who joins at 17 but then goes out for loan without staying at the club for exactly three years before turning 21? what's the rule?

how about a player who joins at 17 but then goes out for loan without staying at the club for exactly three years before turning 21? what's the rule?

he will have been contracted to you for at least three years and so will be home grown.. i would think

Then how comes that in FM 2010, all players brought at 18 (even the last day of his 18) will finally become home-grown? bug in FM 2010 then? I mean for England.

So this has definitely changed for FM11 then? :confused:

how about a player who joins at 17 but then goes out for loan without staying at the club for exactly three years before turning 21? what's the rule?

What kevinlhk said...

If I'm not wrong, the home-grown rule states that the end of the season when he was turning 21 is important - if he have the required 3 years by then, he is home-grown. So for a slightly older than 18 youngster coming to the club with in mid-season transfer window is possible to became home-grown after 3 years as he have 3,5 seasons to gain that status. July born 18-yo Brazilian bought by EPL club in August will have nearly 4 seasons to gain the status.

If I'm not wrong, the home-grown rule states that the end of the season when he was turning 21 is important - if he have the required 3 years by then, he is home-grown. So for a slightly older than 18 youngster coming to the club with in mid-season transfer window is possible to became home-grown after 3 years as he have 3,5 seasons to gain that status. July born 18-yo Brazilian bought by EPL club in August will have nearly 4 seasons to gain the status.

This was probably the case in FM2010, and it sounds correct too, But it's not how it works in FM11. It has to be full 3 years, before your 21st bday.

I just find out that after loan out young players just brought stop to be home grown. No such thing in FM 2010. Is it the real rule? or is it a bug in FM2010?

oooppss i have dropped a clanger, I have bought loads of 18 yrs old for the future.

The explanation given in post #2 is incorrect.

A player can be signed at any point up until his 21st birthday and once he has played 3 years he becomes 'homegrown' in England.

So a player could be bought aged 20 and 364 days, and when he is 23 and 364 days he becomes homegrown.

The 3 years must START before 21, not be completed.

Do they have to be a full professional for three years or should youth contracts count towards the three (in real life, rather than FM)?

For example, if an English born player moves abroad at 18, then returns at 21 could he be considered homegrown? What about if he's loaned out to a foreign club?

Players have to be in a country as players for 3 years between their 15th and 21st birthdays. I'm pretty sure that youth contracts therefore qualify.

I've noticed it as well.. on FM2010 the rule wasn't as strict as it is now, he could be 18 years and a half and still count as HG, now he has to join exactly at 18 or younger.

The explanation given in post #2 is incorrect.

A player can be signed at any point up until his 21st birthday and once he has played 3 years he becomes 'homegrown' in England.

So a player could be bought aged 20 and 364 days, and when he is 23 and 364 days he becomes homegrown.

The 3 years must START before 21, not be completed.

"UEFA defines locally-trained or 'homegrown' players as those who, regardless of their nationality, have been trained by their club or by another club in the same national association for at least three years between the age of 15 and 21. Up to half of the locally-trained players must be from the club itself, with the others being either from the club itself or from other clubs in the same association."

This is an excerpt from http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/youngplayers/index.html.

Don't be daft. Know what you're talking about, before you talk about it.

From www.premierleague.com:

"A home grown player is defined as one who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association or the Welsh Football Association for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

For the purposes of this rule, the season is deemed to run from the date the first transfer window closes until the final match of the campaign."

Therefore in the English Premier League, if you buy a player aged 18 and 1 day (i.e. before 19th birthday) before the end of the September transfer window, he will spend 3 entire seasons at the clue prior to the end of the season during which he turns 21. However, I'm not sure what happens if they turn 21 in between the definition of a season, i.e. between the final match and the close of the first transfer window.

Hence, I think this must be a bug. Quite annoying, as I have bought a few 18 yr olds that will not be classified as Home-Grown (paid over the odds on a couple to get them before they turned 19!).

The explanation given in post #2 is incorrect.

A player can be signed at any point up until his 21st birthday and once he has played 3 years he becomes 'homegrown' in England.

So a player could be bought aged 20 and 364 days, and when he is 23 and 364 days he becomes homegrown.

The 3 years must START before 21, not be completed.

What game are you playing???

Ive bought at least 10 players aged under 21 from abroad and only one is home grown, Lukaku who was 17 when I bought hi. All the others were 18/19/20 and are not due to be home grown..... I can provide several screenies to prove this if you so wish.

Now I do not pretend to know if SI has got this rule right in FM 2011, but I can tell you that buying an 18 year old foreign player and training him for 3 years will not make him home grown....... Rightly or Wrongly.

Please stop posting incorect info please, it can be costlty for some readers ....If you are an English club and if you sign a 20 year old frecnh player from Paris ST Germain, he will never be home grown.

Like I said in another thread... A feature where it explicitly states whether or not the player will become homegrown MUST be implemented.. either on a scouting report or during a transfer bid

This is another example where the SI manual, or in-game guides for the game are s***t.

Even long time players aren't really sure.

From www.premierleague.com:

"A home grown player is defined as one who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association or the Welsh Football Association for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

For the purposes of this rule, the season is deemed to run from the date the first transfer window closes until the final match of the campaign."

This proves that the system is FM10 was correct and FM11 is wrong.

"UEFA defines locally-trained or 'homegrown' players as those who, regardless of their nationality, have been trained by their club or by another club in the same national association for at least three years between the age of 15 and 21. Up to half of the locally-trained players must be from the club itself, with the others being either from the club itself or from other clubs in the same association."

This is an excerpt from http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/youngplayers/index.html.

This proves that the system is FM10 was correct and FM11 is wrong.

where as the link above says its correct....

Do they have to be a full professional for three years or should youth contracts count towards the three (in real life, rather than FM)?

For example, if an English born player moves abroad at 18, then returns at 21 could he be considered homegrown? What about if he's loaned out to a foreign club?

Youth contracts count, but only scholarships, not anything flimsy signed before the 15th birthday.

Youth contracts count, but only scholarships, not anything flimsy signed before the 15th birthday.

That's fine then, so FM is right to only count the time since the player is 'spawned' rather than anything before that?

where as the link above says its correct....

It doesn't necessarily say it's correct. It just doesn't go into much detail. I'd assume the homegrown rules for the Premier League are the same as they are for UEFA. The fact that the Premier League rules go into further detail makes them far more reliable to use.

It doesn't necessarily say it's correct. It just doesn't go into much detail. I'd assume the homegrown rules for the Premier League are the same as they are for UEFA. The fact that the Premier League rules go into further detail makes them far more reliable to use.

I agree Jimmy.

If we want a real life example, take Denilson at Arsenal. His DOB is 16/02/1988. He was signed on 01/09/2006 according to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/5307504.stm

Therefore he was 18 and 6.5 months when signed.

But according to this:

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/new-squad-regulations-for-this-season

He classifies as Home-Grown.

Is there any way we could get a response from SI to understand how they have implemented the Home-Grown rule? I'm still a new poster here so not sure where to post/email!

Well, I do agree actually that the current HG rule is not correct or sensible for that matter, and that it was different in FM10. But, fact is, bug or not, this is how it is in Fm11.

Well, I do agree actually that the current HG rule is not correct or sensible for that matter, and that it was different in FM10. But, fact is, bug or not, this is how it is in Fm11.

Don't quite understand what you mean. FM11 is a Football Management game and should attempt to simulate real life as much as possible. Therefore if a rule that has been implemented is not correct, it should be corrected within the game by SI. All other rules within the game seem to be correct and this one should be no different.

Plus I think this rule has quite a large impact on the game. It makes it close to impossible to have a Brazilian Home Grown player as they cant sign for clubs abroad before their 18th birthday I believe, so unless their birthday lands in a transfer window, they will never be Home Grown.

Don't quite understand what you mean. FM11 is a Football Management game and should attempt to simulate real life as much as possible. Therefore if a rule that has been implemented is not correct, it should be corrected within the game by SI. All other rules within the game seem to be correct and this one should be no different.

Plus I think this rule has quite a large impact on the game. It makes it close to impossible to have a Brazilian Home Grown player as they cant sign for clubs abroad before their 18th birthday I believe, so unless their birthday lands in a transfer window, they will never be Home Grown.

improve your own youth network and youth facilities so you dont need to always sign brazilian youngsters.

'Brought'?

improve your own youth network and youth facilities so you dont need to always sign brazilian youngsters.

Ridiculous point that helps no one. Some people don't play with amazing facilities or with a rich club where the board often reject these improvements. Would take years for me (playing as Birmingham) to bring my youth facilities up to scratch which I intend to do but in the meantime, I cant afford to not set my team up for the future.

Also, the Brazilian youngsters I mentioned was a simple example of where this 'Home-grown' rule that SI made up fails.

Ridiculous point that helps no one. Some people don't play with amazing facilities or with a rich club where the board often reject these improvements. Would take years for me (playing as Birmingham) to bring my youth facilities up to scratch which I intend to do but in the meantime, I cant afford to not set my team up for the future.

Also, the Brazilian youngsters I mentioned was a simple example of where this 'Home-grown' rule that SI made up fails.

all what you have just said is the exact reason these rules were taking into place, to stop teams going out and just poaching all the best young players from around the world, if Sebb Ballter gets his way all under 18 transfers will be banned full stop. The idea is that you DO build up your facilities over the years, and that you do encourage home grown players for your own country, think about it in real life, if clubs as low down the chain as bham are trying to fill their youth teams with foreign youths then what hope is there ever for the english national team? You can easily set up your team for the future without relying on making young brazilian players home grown, thats just the easy option.

all what you have just said is the exact reason these rules were taking into place, to stop teams going out and just poaching all the best young players from around the world, if Sebb Ballter gets his way all under 18 transfers will be banned full stop. The idea is that you DO build up your facilities over the years, and that you do encourage home grown players for your own country, think about it in real life, if clubs as low down the chain as bham are trying to fill their youth teams with foreign youths then what hope is there ever for the english national team? You can easily set up your team for the future without relying on making young brazilian players home grown, thats just the easy option.

Completely disagree with this but I dont think this is the right place to have a debate regarding this.

Point is SI have implemented the Home-grown rule incorrectly and this should be amended.

Btw for your information, just started the second season and of the new youth intake, only 1 has the potential to get into my first team, and he would at most be an average 1st team player. I have already requested to improve youth facilities once successfully and will try to do it again soon but realistically, it will be a few seasons before youth facilities are up to scratch.

Completely disagree with this but I dont think this is the right place to have a debate regarding this.

Point is SI have implemented the Home-grown rule incorrectly and this should be amended.

Btw for your information, just started the second season and of the new youth intake, only 1 has the potential to get into my first team, and he would at most be an average 1st team player. I have already requested to improve youth facilities once successfully and will try to do it again soon but realistically, it will be a few seasons before youth facilities are up to scratch.

i know it takes years to get good enough facilities, thats the challenge! There are plenty of very very good british players that come through in this game which makes it easy to have enough home grown players for the future.

Out of interest what is it you disagree with? Those are the reasons the home grown rule were put into place and Seb has stated he wants to ban transfers of young players. Also it is obvious the English national team is suffering because the bigger teams have signed more youngsters unable to play for england than home grown, that and the number of foreign players playing in the league has affecting the quality of British players coming through, again this is why the FA has taking this step of introducing this rule.

Don't quite understand what you mean. FM11 is a Football Management game and should attempt to simulate real life as much as possible. Therefore if a rule that has been implemented is not correct, it should be corrected within the game by SI. All other rules within the game seem to be correct and this one should be no different.

Plus I think this rule has quite a large impact on the game. It makes it close to impossible to have a Brazilian Home Grown player as they cant sign for clubs abroad before their 18th birthday I believe, so unless their birthday lands in a transfer window, they will never be Home Grown.

Ah, well, what I meant by that is, I agree "on principle" with the rule that players who play for you for three seasons until the age of 21 should be considered HG. The UEFA link I posted earlier and the Premier League link someone else posted only serve to increase the ambiguity surrounding the actual HG rule, so I cannot say for sure what the "right" rule is. Although, I still think it should be the one on Uefa's website, since they were the ones to formulate and implement such a rule first.

As far as FM11 being able to reflect reality is concerned, I guess the devs could either treat this as a bug and fix it, or find out what the correct rule is and clear the air.

I play in the Swiss league which allows upto 10 non-EU players to be registered, so between loaning players out and letting some really young ones play for my Youth side, I dont have much problem in accomodating players of any nationality. I also like to play with a relatively young squad which always includes at least a couple of youngsters coming out of my youth system, so I've not yet faced much problem with registering enough HG players for CL.

My suggestion: At least until this issue is sorted, try to sign youngsters who Will be able to spend three full years at your club before their 21st B'day. Also, remember you only need 4 and 8 HG in Club and Nation respectively, so even if everyone you sign isn't going to become HG, you'd normally manage to put out a decent squad including your HG & U21 players. Honestly, I don't see what the fuss is all about anymore.

Just my two cents. Hope it helps.

i know it takes years to get good enough facilities, thats the challenge! There are plenty of very very good british players that come through in this game which makes it easy to have enough home grown players for the future.

Out of interest what is it you disagree with? Those are the reasons the home grown rule were put into place and Seb has stated he wants to ban transfers of young players. Also it is obvious the English national team is suffering because the bigger teams have signed more youngsters unable to play for england than home grown, that and the number of foreign players playing in the league has affecting the quality of British players coming through, again this is why the FA has taking this step of introducing this rule.

Playing as Birmingham, to get good British players costs alot more and as you can imagine, I dont have the best transfer budget. Also, the reputation of the club is pretty low (although enough for nearly all South American players) making it difficult to attract good British (and generally, European) talent. Over the next few years when my facilities improve enough (currently I cant even ask the board to improve my 'average' facilities) then of course I will look more to my youth team. In the meantime I do want to buy a young team so that they can blend together for the future.

In terms of disagreeing with you, I really don't believe for one minute that the influx of foreign players has remotely affected the English national team, but most probably improved it. England haven't won a single thing for over 40 years and the foreign players didnt really come into the EPL until about 20 years ago. Also, the vast majority of the young British talent that may have been cut due to this would never make the grade anyway. If anything, I believe the influx of foreign players has improved the quality of the league as a whole, and the increased competition has only made players better. It has also forced many youth academies to focus more on technical aspects (unlike the normal British brand of football).

If you want something to support my argument, look at Arsenal. Although many people treat them as a team full of foreigners, the amount of British talent that they will produce (Wilshere, Lansbury, Gibbs, Emmanuel-Thomus, Aneke, etc) for the next generation is unreal. This would've been impossible without the influx of foreign players.

I am a firm believer of whoever is best skilled for the job should get it, regardless of where they come from.