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The New Europe


Lower Leagues Rule

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The New Europe

See it here

So I have been developing on this idea slowly, it is taking time, I realised what my database error was I had no 'scottish' teams in "A Lower Division" so this was causing issues when it tried to make the scottish cup...so I believe I have fixed the problem. I am working on the idea slowly and building it out.

The Leagues

USSR - This will include all the former soviet republics

UK - Scotland, N. Ireland, Wales and England United

East Germany - Will take the longest seperating who is east and west

West Germany - As above

Yugoslavia - Joining these nations together as well

Czechoslovakia - Recombining these two as well

Basque/Catalunya - All the Basque & Catalunyan Spanish teams shall have their own league (About 60 odd teams)

New Nations

Transylvania - Extracted from Hungary & Romania (May get its own league)

Vatican City - A National Team Created, plus a club in the Italian League

Palestine - I don't believe they are in the game

Corsica - Just its own nationality for now

Cyprus - The split is a definite need

Belgium - A split into Flanders & Walloon, almost straight North/South Split

Basque - Lets rip Spain apart

Catalunya - Seperatist gallore

The Possibles

Sardina - Italy

Sicily - Italy

Azores - Portugal

Tibet - China

China - A Full Provincial Split

Quebec - We all know they wanna split

Now this is leaving me with an issue that I have a large number of nations that now will not exist, but I am trying to figure out how it is best to fix this up. One of the ideas was to remove the nations from the database, but I think this might cause more problems. If anyone has an idea or can think of some more splits I could make this would be great, otherwise I will come up with something, it might just take a while longer to achieve it.

The Teams Placement

I was originally going to do this purely on team reputation, but for example in the UK this would mean the Premiership has 18 English teams and 2 Scottish Teams, and Wales top team is only in the BSP level. So I am going to do it on a population ratio as well as Reputation. EG. The Premiership would have 16 English Teams, 2 Scottish Teams, 1 Welsh Team & 1 N. Irish Team. And this ratio would continue down through the leagues. I will follow a similar basis when doing the USSR League as it will make the balance fairer and also sort it so that there are teams from all the nations within every level, even if within a few seasons this will change.

Help I need

1. Research - West vs East Germany Clubs & towns.

2. More possible country split ups. eg Turkey?

3. How to split the German Players & Spanish players properly.

4. Any help at all in a way to make a mass edit, eg. Being able to change all players with Scottish Nationality to United Kingdom easily.

5. Advice on what to do with the now empty nations: Slovakia, Croatia, Belarus, Ukraine, Estonia, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland, Latvia, Lithiuania, all the Stans etc.

If anyone can think of anything else that would be a great help as well.

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That was what I thought too Dave, so interestingly how do I deactivate a nation. Cause I will just deactivate a couple and see what happens. If that doesn't work i am going to just go through and add in the separatist movements around Europe to make it more interesting with more nations and so that I have leagues to fill all the playable ones I will make Non-playable European Leagues into playable ones :)

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Top of my head maybe switch around a couple of the nations so they are more regional leagues for example switch Estonia so it could be a Sicilian league, and Latvia for maybe Corsica, but this means a lot more work researching where each team is from. Also just coming up with idea's for more leagues would be difficult since a lot is being unified rather than broken down.

- Sicily

- Corsica

- Greenland

- Gozo

- Gibraltar

- Northern Cyprus

- Vatican City? (clutching at straws now)

Are all I can presently come up with for Europe, but maybe a couple could be turned into the same format as the Liechtenstein league?

As for Asia taking out all the former Soviet countries will make it become trickier for info too if you're going to take it on.

Maybe North/South Vietnam, Tibet, Kurdistan, West Bank, Gaza, West Papua are possibilities.

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To deactivate a nation you remove it's continent and untick FIFA membership. You could just try unticking FIFA membership if removing the continent causes issues, but I assume that this will also cause issues.

It works for adding nations(giving CIS/USSR etc a continent and ticking FIFA membership for them), but I think the ones in game are hard coded to be there and them not being there could cause big problems. Usually in the form of a crash.

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Already thinking bout that one as well Paddy.

Now everybody does anyone have a clue what sort of Macro Program I need to do some serious Mass Editing, as this would be a huge bonus and lead me to be able to make this database in a couple of days instead of a month that it looks like taking right now.

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Already thinking bout that one as well Paddy.

Now everybody does anyone have a clue what sort of Macro Program I need to do some serious Mass Editing, as this would be a huge bonus and lead me to be able to make this database in a couple of days instead of a month that it looks like taking right now.

Spend your time on something more useful.

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I love how the same ideas come up both here and in CSE Forum, okies I am going to make a Basque/Catalunya League, each will have their own country, but because they only have about 30 clubs each I will combine them in one league, for that added rivalry.

I will update the opening post with the current idea list.

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New United Kingdom Leagues - A sneak peek

I have been working on organising these teams this morning and here is a sneak peek at the playable Leagues + Those that will be promoted if you holiday.

UK Premier League

Man Utd

Chelsea

Arsenal

Liverpool

Tottenham

Everton

Man City

Newcastle

Aston Villa

West Ham

Portsmouth

Blackburn

Middlesbrough

Bolton

Sunderland

Fulham

Rangers

Celtic

Linfield

Llanelli

UK Championship

Wigan

West Brom

Stoke

Birmingham

Reading

Charlton

Hull

Wolves

Sheff Utd

Crystal Palace

Ipswich

Derby

Q.P.R.

Watford

Norwich

Aberdeen

Dundee Utd

Hibernian

Hearts

Motherwell

Falkirk

Kilmarnock

Glentoran

TNS

UK League 1

Leeds

Cardiff

Southampton

St. Mirren

Inverness CT

Sheff Wed

Nottm Forest

Preston

Bristol City

Leicester

Dundee

Coventry

Dunfermline

Plymouth

Hamilton

St. Johnstone

Swansea

Barnsley

Burnley

Doncaster

Blackpool

Partick Thistle

Cliftonville

Rhyl

UK League 2

Carlisle

Queen of Sth

Morton

Huddersfield

Livingston

Luton

Colchester

Scunthorpe

Millwall

Brighton

Tranmere

Southend

Oldham

Walsall

Crewe

Airdrie Utd

Swindon

Clyde

Gilingham

Peterborough

MK Dons

Yeovil

Portadown

Bangor City

Blue Square Prem

Bristol Rovers

Bradford

Northampton

Hartlepool

Rotherham

Ross County

Port Vale

Stirling

Leyton Orient

Bournemouth

Brentford

Stockport

Raith

Wycombe

Cheltenham

Chesterfield

Rochdale

Notss Co

Lincoln

Darlington

Wrexham

Grimsby

Distillery

Welshpool

Blue Square South

Brechin

Shrewsbury

Peterhead

Oxford

Mansfield

Barnet

East Fife

Cambridge

Ayr

Berwick

Cowdenbeath

York

Rushden

Stevenage

Dumbarton

Annan

Elgin

Ebbsfleet

Woking

Stenhousemuir

Grays

Weymouth

Ballymena Utd

Aberystwyth

Blue Square North

Alloa

Bury

Queens Park

Hereford

Chester

Nacckesfiekd

Accrington

Exeter

Morecombe

Dag & red

Torquay

Stranraer

Aldershot

Forfar

Kidderminster

Burton

Forest Green

East Stirlingshire

Albion Rovers

Crawley

Northwich

Histon

Dungannon

Carmarthen

Ispwich

Montrose

Altrincham

Linlithgow Rose

Nuneaton

Tayport

Lewes

Coleraine*

Havant & W

Salisbury

Glenavon

Lochee Utd

Fraserburgh

Arthurlie

Chelmsford

Bangor*

Harrogate

Institute*

Newtown**

Maidenhead

Fleetwood

Bath

Wick Academy

Northern

Kettering

Bathgate Thistle

Southport

Carnoustie

Eastbourne Boro

Crusaders*

Girvan

Spartans

Lossiemouth

Cutler

Preston Athletic

Rothes

Whitburn

Team Bath

Bellshill

Farsley

Beith

Eastleigh

Hayes & Yeading

Comnock

Gateshead

Connah's Quay**

Southern

Barrow

Stafford

Bonnyrigg Rose Ath

Pollok

Clydebank

AFC Telford

Drolsden

Cove Rangers

Newry*

Buckie Thistle

AFC Wimbledon

Ketty Hearts

Camelon

Boston Utd

Port Talbot**

Stalybridge

Auchinleck

Bromley

Hampton & Richmond

Workington

Fort William

Glenafton

The astericks are just my check to make sure every division had a team from N. Ireland and Wales. Hope you like the looks of them. I sorted completely by Reputation and also eg. Leeds was not allowed above their current level. From there I just worked down the list making sure every division had 2 Scottish Teams, 1 Northern Irish Team & 1 Welsh Team (This was based on population figures from last census) And hence here is what we have.

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The main problem i see is that the Welsh and Northern Irish teams, aswell as a few Scottish teams, cannot compete at the same level so alot of the English clubs. If you based this on reputation, one of the highest reputations in Wales is TNS, and when you compare to the English league, it fit perfectly in the Blue Square Premier.

I made a database (which I never released, as it was just a personal observation) of changing clubs to there own nations, rather than separate reasons why some clubs are in different Football Associations. I put Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport Country, Methyr Tydfil and Cowlyn Bay, in the Welsh leagues. TNS and Berwick in England (both with reputations similar to Blue Square Premier clubs)(TNS were put in the English leagues because they currently play in an English town.). I only did this as an experiment as I was interested on how these changes can affect football.

after playing a holiday season of this set up results being:

- Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham, dominating the Welsh league and cups, with Cardiff getting a 100% win ratio for the league.

- TNS were a steady mid-table Blue Square Premier team

- Berwick struggled against relegation from the Blue Square Premier

- The Welsh coefficients improved massively, and ended up in the 4th season having 2 Welsh teams in the UEFA Champions League as Cardiff were constantly qualifying in the group stages even from the preliminary rounds. But i'm sure this would balance out once the lack of money from TV revenue and prizes affect on what players will be at the top Welsh clubs.

- The Championship minus Cardiff and Swansea, made no difference considering Leeds and Leicester are strong enough to play in that league.

This was a very interesting database to look at, this helps the Welsh league, but football is a business, therefore you wouldn't see the likes of Cardiff or Swansea, maybe the other Welsh clubs, in the Welsh League. Its about the money, and that is one of the reasons why they refused to play in the Welsh League.

I like that fact that you have placed at least 1 or 2 sides from Northern Ireland and Wales in the top divisions, but when the game is played, then the clubs are going to be dropping down the leagues until some balance has been restored, which could take a quite a few seasons. I feel if the balance of the league was placed from the start then it wouldn't look like an embarrassment for the Welsh or Northern Irish clubs.

On the other hand, if you were to balance this out from the start, then you are unlikely to see many Welsh or Northern Irish teams, I think the Scottish teams do start a chance within the English football pyramid.

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Scottish teams actually dominate about 4th level down. But yeah I realise these teams are going to drop down the leagues, but I thought it gives someone a chance to play as a Welsh team in the higher levels and it could be interesting to see how many years it is before they find their spot. I shall be doing the same when I process the USSR League and other leagues where I am combining the nations.

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Maybe in the UK league you should actually treat Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham as Welsh teams so that Cardiff would be in the Premier League, Swansea in the Championship etc. This might even it out a bit more as these teams have the potential to actually survive in they divisions.

Another thing you could do is maybe boost the fianaces of the N. Irish and Welsh teams slighty so they could get better players from the off and have a tiny bit more chance in the divisions.

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I dont know about any Turks playing in Greek Cyprus, it is very much separated. There probably are some players who are from turkish descent but it is very hard to separate them, because their names are greekified most of the time.

For the German divide you could use Wikipedia and see which teams played in the DDR and which ones played in the BRD. With a map you could choose either to give every player from a club in of the former DDR the DDR pasport, or look up their place of birth and see if it is DDR or BRD and thus hand out pasports.

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As long as we're bringing back USSR, why not have circa 1900 British Empire. Add in Hong Kong, Ireland, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Canada, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Nigeria, etc. With 10 leagues to work with, why not go all out and have some fun.

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Ummm Yuko changing the City of birth does not change the nationality...I already moved all the Basque cities across and the people with these cities of birth are not of that nationality, mainly because nationality and city of birth in the database are completely independant.

Well Will the main reason being that the UK by itself is 1200 odd clubs, the USSR is also 1200 odd clubs given that the biggest country currently in the game is Spain with 900 odd clubs this will not work. I am going to basicvally put the 900 highest rep USSR clubs into Spain, the 640 odd highest rep UK teams into England and then work from there redistrubuting the other clubs around the world.

Chances are that the only actual playable leagues on this database will be the ones I have created by the time I make it work. But it should work at least.

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I did not know that Dave, but that will actually help a lot, but it must have a minimum correct? Which means that currently any league that has a set up in it needs to have at least that many teams, meaning with me just swapping teams as I am now I need to keep a balance of teams in coutnries, which I have no problem with, just means some of the leagues around the world will be a little bit messed up :p

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I think you need to prop the attendances of the Welsh/N. Irish clubs up a little in the higher divisions, as realistically in that situation they would get much higher crowds, although I think with their reputations in those leagues the game automatically hits their highest possible attendance or thereabouts. The same will probably need to be done in the USSR, and perhaps a downwards revision of attendances for certain teams in a regionalised Spain, but an increase for others as travelling times would decrease and local derbies increase.

On the subject of which, if Berwick were to play in the BSN, I wouldn't relish the trip there from Solihull, Redditch or King's Lynn on a tuesday night!

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I will be having a fiddle around with it all in the end anyway that up there is basically a draft set-up and will be changed as I work on it :)

As for attendances etc they will probably stay set at the same as clubs are being sorted by reputation if they need/want a bigger crowd then they will need to improve up the leagues :)

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The idea of a UK nation and NT makes me drool :) I love playing in the English football leagues (it's pretty much the only country I play in), and it'd be so much fun seeing other clubs in there. I like your list, with the only exception of Transylvannia as it sounds like something out of a bad horror movie :D

But i would try your DB just for the UK home nations.

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I was thinking with the Asian countries spliting China up into provinces and having each one with its own leagues following a shift in World Power as Europe comes together and China falls apart ;)

I think the easiest (and most likely scenario) to do this is to break it up into north and south, like the Korea's. The culture between Northern China and Southern China is a bit different, with different foods, language(accents), weather, etc. Beijing, Shanghai, Liaoning, Dalian etc would be in the north, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Fujian in the south. Much easier than multiple 'provinces' as this is just FM, not a Total War / Three Kingdoms game!

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Robot, nevermind Berwick, imagine Elgin, Peterhead? I made the Peterhead trip one time from Berwick and that was bad enough. All err... 12 of us were near enough dead by the time we got back and that was a Saturday.

Makes me glad we're in a Scottish division. Except for Blyth and Gateshead we'd probably have 4 away fans.

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Here's some ideas for other nations you could've had. You could have Cornwall splitting from England, they were originally independant at one point in their history and play Trinidad & Tobago sometimes. Also, the Isle of Man isn't part of the UK. Gibraltar isn't part of Spain and just about failed to get into UEFA. Yap has its own national team where the captain trialled for Hull in the summer. You could also look at the NF-Board on Wikipedia, they've got a fair few nations you could use.

P.S. Vatican has the Clericus Cup. You could check the teams on Wikipedia as well.

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Ok just need a little bit of advice...If a league is not showing up when I load the database, it shows no errors what possible problems could it have?

I found a couple of clubs with double-ups in position in the leagues, so I have swapped them, but it still doesn't work. It is the Spanish leagues with all the USSR clubs in it, but it does seem to want to work Anyone got any other tips, I am about to go through the lower leagues to check there are no position double ups there as well.

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Usually when this occurs it is something to do with one of the leagues not having the same amount of teams as the original league which has been overwritten, so for example La Liga must have exactly 20 teams no more or less and this is the same with every league which is playable, I don't think it is a problem with the unplayable ones but I could be wrong.

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I found the problem, on top of the positions being wrong, there was a team in 2DB who had no nation selected, change that and problem disappears.

So on an update here you can Check out USSR and others Here

So far I have USSR, Basque, East & West Germany working and running on holiday...

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I'm disappointed my leagues weren't included, but then again I didn't notice the discussion thread in the CSE forum so it's my fault. The Lapland (aka Sapmi) idea was quite good, and another idea for someone (not myself, I can't be bothered) to do is an entirely NF-Board database, with the CENF etc continental associations thrown in.

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Yeah I was actually interested in seeing some screenshots of how the leagues actually panned out over the 5 years you've been testing them, seeing the league winners/promotions/cup winners.

Ok after I get back from going out this afternoon I will post some League Screenshots from the Holiday game I have running right now. It should be 5 years in by the time I get home.

I'm disappointed my leagues weren't included, but then again I didn't notice the discussion thread in the CSE forum so it's my fault. The Lapland (aka Sapmi) idea was quite good, and another idea for someone (not myself, I can't be bothered) to do is an entirely NF-Board database, with the CENF etc continental associations thrown in.

I still have not completed the league list it is still building :) I have tried to copy all ideas from here over to there as well. But generally it has come down to, if someone will research the clubs for me, I will sort out the Leagues.

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Well, in terms of the Vatican, you could've had a look at Wikipedia a few months ago. They had detailed pages about each of the Clericus Cup (similar to MLS you may want to know) teams on there, but they were all deleted and it's only team names and references to Father Ted on there now. Gibraltar has info on Wikipedia and the Falklands are getting their own league website soon (apparently). Cornwall, you could look on the Data Issues forum for stuff, or start a thread looking for info on the teams. I think Truro City has a bit of info in it, but that's FM08 and it wasn't an awful lot anyway, just some bloke who scored over 100 goals in a season iirc.

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I believe someone has tried to find info on the Vatican, but basically it has come down to the fact that on top of everything else creating teams just makes it so much extra work, so we are just going to play with the teams that are actually already in the data base as for the rest if someone gets me a list of clubs then I can look into it. :)

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