4-3-1-2 in FM2019 - No success stories

[worduphomes]

Hi All

Why can I not find ANY youtube videos about the use of 4-3-1-2 in FM2019?
Is this formation impossible to succeed with in FM2019?

I can't find any evidence of other people using this formation successfully in FM2019 anywhere.

Would be great to use it as a way to get both Aubameyanga nd Lacazette in the same team as well as Ozil for Arsenal...

[haagendasz]

I used this formation back on FM17.

It was quite successful with my ManUtd side. The only problem was the AMC on AP-su/at rarely got good ratings.

[worduphomes]

Yeah, I have used it in FM2016, 2017 and 2018 successfully and there are plenty of youtube videos and general forum and blog posts all over the internet about it for previous versions of FM, but nothing for FM2019...
Even Daljit (BustTheNet) on youtube who has said it is his favourite formation in previous versions of FM has said nothing about it for FM2019...

[haagendasz]

I think Bust The Net still use it but hasn’t published any guides about it yet. I just read his post on the other thread (Breaking Park The Bus), he mentioned that he used 4312. 

Maybe you can create a new one. I’m thinking Ozil as Trequartista or AP-at at AMC. Auba as Poacher or AF, then Lacazette as a support striker, CF-s or maybe PF.

3 MC usually the defend duty in the middle with DLP or CM-d. 

[worduphomes]

Yeah, I was thinking roughly along the same lines.

I might give it a try and let you know how it goes...

[Experienced Defender]

I think a 4312 should work well for Arsenal as you have good attacking fullbacks, which is critical for that kind of system. If you want to use Ozil in the AMC positiion, maybe enganche would be an ideal role for him. 

[Rashidi]

I have used the 4312 it will probably come on a later show for the Kop Diaries,  I find that its good to use it against defensive sides but against sides who are even odds then you will find it challenging, In fact it produces less clear cut chances for me than the 4231. It should work fine for the GUnners provided you get better defenders. Plus I think you don't have enough cover to play the 3 in midfield. Ozil will rule the AMC position.

[westy8chimp]

I've been struggling for a save... Waiting for an update before ploughing into a serious save. So i will give this a go, starting tonight.

[westy8chimp]

First team is fine... Can upgrade lb and CB... But not bad. 

Targets Tierney and De Ligt

Its the bench that's a worry

Main team and rough idea of roles;

Bench would be something like;

Kolasinac, holding (koscielny when fit), AMN (for his utility aspect), Guendouzi/(or) Elneny, Mkhi, Iwobi, Welbeck/(or) Nketiah

So I need improvement across the board on the bench... Need a striker for sure with playing two upfront I need two strikers who can play Europa and Cup games... Nketiah is fine as a 4th/5th choice but not if Welbeck is 3rd choice... So néed at least one as an addition, or preferably sell Welbeck and bring in two strikers. Someone cheap though as they won't start many league games... Gignac? Villa? Huntelaar? Quagliarella? Old and proven or find a young prospect... 

Need better midfield back up for the Ozil and Ramsey position... Guen and Elneny just about adequate cover for season 1 as DLP and Car. Savic? Probably out of price range if I need to sign 3-4 players. Could be tricky... Maybe go for a less demanding role than bbm/mez as I know I can get a player like Eva Banega or Lucas Romero on min fee release clause and I could then give Ozil full attacking licence and also make my LB more attacking. 

[Piperita]

I am planning to use this system as a secondary system because my injury list killed my primary plans for the season. I had some fun back in 17, only hindered by another, completelely broken system. 

In 19 I had some okay experiences with the classical Diamond, so I guess the 4312 should also be a viable formation. But right no I am stalling because I can't decide whether to concentrate the play on the outer CM or the AM. Currently my plan is to start a dummy game to test both versions ^^

[Griffo]

Super keen on a 4-3-1-2, any luck finding anything good?

[westy8chimp]

On 02/01/2019 at 12:48, worduphomes said:

Would be great to use it as a way to get both Aubameyanga nd Lacazette in the same team as well as Ozil for Arsenal...

So I got to December playing the 4312 I detailed in a previous post. The results are good... I'm 3pts off Liverpool going into the transfer window. 

Holding me back is a lack of goalscorer outside laca and auba. I spent my budget on de Ligt, de Jong and Tierney... As if it was a long term save. If I wanted better chance in season 1 I'd probably go for more experienced players. 

Also the 4312 leaves Iwobi and mkhi pretty much on the scrapheap, which is fine as I don't like them, but couldn't sell them. So that's 60m resource going to waste. 

If I was doing an arsenal save for real I'd probably start as a 41221 wide, using the squad they have and sign some youngsters. Then progress to the 4312 once you can transition players like mkhi out.

Ozil has 4 assists all from corners. As the Ap it's still mostly passing the ball out to the fbs who get most assists from crosses. Laca scoring at just more than 1 in 2, auba at goal per game. 

Defence is OK but lack of DM is pretty bad with the state of long shots. 

[Cloista]

I've always wanted to be able to get a 4-3-1-2 working properly, just haven't managed it so far this year (or last to be fair).

 

@westy8chimp I'd actually look at playing Torreira as the holding midfielder, with Xhaka as maybe a Mezzala (s) on the left of the 3, with Guendouzi/AMN on the right, may give better balance. I think if retrained, Iwobi or Smith-Rowe could fill in quite well for Xhaka in that role too (maybe Willock too?). I'm going to assume that come the Winter Update Ramsey will be set as leaving on a Free (assuming he doesn't go this window IRL) so I'd be wary of building something with him in mind. He has the stats to compete with/cover for Ozil as the AM though. I think Nelson or Smith-Rowe could really grow into that '10' role too, I'd even be tempted to try to convert Nelson into a proper striker.

[westy8chimp]

5 hours ago, Cloista said:

I've always wanted to be able to get a 4-3-1-2 working properly, just haven't managed it so far this year (or last to be fair).

 

@westy8chimp I'd actually look at playing Torreira as the holding midfielder, with Xhaka as maybe a Mezzala (s) on the left of the 3, with Guendouzi/AMN on the right, may give better balance. I think if retrained, Iwobi or Smith-Rowe could fill in quite well for Xhaka in that role too (maybe Willock too?). I'm going to assume that come the Winter Update Ramsey will be set as leaving on a Free (assuming he doesn't go this window IRL) so I'd be wary of building something with him in mind. He has the stats to compete with/cover for Ozil as the AM though. I think Nelson or Smith-Rowe could really grow into that '10' role too, I'd even be tempted to try to convert Nelson into a proper striker.

Willock broke into my team and Smith-Rowe... Mostly in the cups tho. 

[zlatanera]

I had a 4312 with River Plate that was quite successful, tended to work better against bigger teams where space opened up and was far too dependent on set pieces against the minnows, but I think that was the case with everything I did then. Not sure how it performs now there's been ME changes. It's in the opening post of this thread I made:

Won Copa Libertadores twice, Recopa twice and Superliga once in the two seasons I used it. The thread I've linked was made out of frustration over losing the Club World Cup 2 years running (would later become 3 once I'd switched to a 442 diamond), but even then we were competitive. 

[Piperita]

I did a bit of testing today.

The hardest part so far is to get the fullbacks right; either they are hyperaggressive and make everything wingplay or they are too deep to stretch the field. Tomorrow I'll experiment with some PPMs to involve them better.

The second part is the supporting striker. Right now I only had success with heavily PPM'd ones, those that are a lot better than their opponents, and — once again — the TM(S) because this role is bonkers! 

Otherwise I'm in love! Can't wait to play the second half of the season; my predecessor left me a mess that I'm soon out of. Then I can finally fully commit to my idea instead of keeping everyone happy first. 

Result of the day: If the fullbacks, midfielder and one striker are ALL on support duty with less dribbling, it is one of the best-looking football I've seen in 19 so far. Sure, unless one is vastly superior there won't be much more than these good looks but it is still fun!

 

[lukeeggy]

Looking at something similar to try like a milan-esque one. I would say CM(D) cover the wings better than a Carrilero

 

I would go

 

                   

[craiigman]

On 06/01/2019 at 12:49, westy8chimp said:

So I got to December playing the 4312 I detailed in a previous post. The results are good... I'm 3pts off Liverpool going into the transfer window. 

Holding me back is a lack of goalscorer outside laca and auba. I spent my budget on de Ligt, de Jong and Tierney... As if it was a long term save. If I wanted better chance in season 1 I'd probably go for more experienced players. 

Also the 4312 leaves Iwobi and mkhi pretty much on the scrapheap, which is fine as I don't like them, but couldn't sell them. So that's 60m resource going to waste. 

If I was doing an arsenal save for real I'd probably start as a 41221 wide, using the squad they have and sign some youngsters. Then progress to the 4312 once you can transition players like mkhi out.

Ozil has 4 assists all from corners. As the Ap it's still mostly passing the ball out to the fbs who get most assists from crosses. Laca scoring at just more than 1 in 2, auba at goal per game. 

Defence is OK but lack of DM is pretty bad with the state of long shots. 

I'm glad your experience has been the same as mine, means I'm not being completely useless. I have put the game on hold now for a while, waiting for an update.

[Piperita]

After some testing runs I've started for real. Starting situation: Düsseldorf is #17 at winter's break in the second division and fired their manager, putting me in charge. With only one pure winger it felt like the right time to get going.

My first lineup was the aforementioned support-heavy version:

SK()——WB(s)-CD(St)-BPD(Co)-WB(s)——BWM(s)-DLP(s)-BBM(s)——AM(s)——CF(s)-P(a)

Tactically I used a modified Vertical Tiki-Taka, just with more discipline and less dribbling (AM and CF have their liberties through PPM) and with over- instead of underlap.

In 13 games I am at 14 to 3* chances and in 8 league games at 14 to 2 goals. It is not the most effective tactics and against better pressing teams it is a gamble but it just looks absolutely phenomenal. The ball circulation and slow buildup is a sight to behold!

Right now I am experimenting with four changes: 

• Switching the Centrebacks. With the Stopper on the left this side of the pitch is better protected when the BWM's aggressive pressing fails .
• Turning the right Wingback into a FB(a), especially with the switched defenders. Fullbacks are defensively more solid and as an attacker it still has good runs. With the left being more pressing intensive, the right might get some extra attention due to long flank-switchers so a bit more stability is welcome. As a side-effect it also someehat reduces the crossing focus as fullbacks often interact with the flat three more instead of just rushing to receive a pass. 
• Changing the AMC role. Right now the role only shines when it can run into spaces for the final pass or long shot. Otherwise the three MC do the main passing and the Forwards the striking. My current idea: A Shadow Striker (or CM(a)?) with 'Comes Deep to Get the Ball', maybe also 'Arrives Late'. It has the dangerous attacking movement from behind to use stray clearances or backward passes but due to its PPMs also works as an advanced passing target and recycler wor the middle three. My main fear: Does it really recycle or due to its mentality immediately look for risky forward passes? 
• Especially against weaker teams turning the BWM into a second BBM if not even MEZ. It is a good role but sometimes I'd like more offensive participation. Alternatively, *really* commiting to the press as then it usually stays at the edge of the box, perfect for long shots!

Sometimes during the weekend I'll also try an old fetish of mine: A 4312 but with a Regista and two Volantes. 

*incl. one penalty