Help me develop this Regen

[johnels001]

Hello! After 4 and a half successful years at Newcastle (3rd place in 2020) I felt that I needed a change. Struggling Arsenal hired me. The roster is very good to push for Europe.

Anyway,

I need your help to get the most out of this interesting regen:

 

I think I'm going to use him as a Deep Lying Playmaker (D) as it suits me the tactics I have in mind. What PPM should I try to teach him?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Kick Wilstra]

Personally I would start with "Develop weaker foot". At that level I expect players to be at least reasonable with their weak foot.

With his passing ability and vision I would after that go for "Tries long range passes" and "Tries killer balls often".

After that I would re-evalute him. Might leave him as he is by that point, although "Dictates Tempo" or "Play-One-Twos" would probably also suit him.

[johnels001]

Thanks for the reply, developing his weaker foot didn't cross my mind, will start him right away!

Forgot to mention that my main tactic is 4-2-3-1 Wide, playing possession football.

[craigd84]

johnels DONT RETRAIN WEAKER FOOT, that eats into current ability like a lion.

 

Long range passes, dictate tempo, switches flank and comes deep to collect ball. However... those can be tweaked depending on what type of football you wanna play.

[Kick Wilstra]

On 4-8-2017 at 16:40, craigd84 said:

johnels DONT RETRAIN WEAKER FOOT, that eats into current ability like a lion.

 

Long range passes, dictate tempo, switches flank and comes deep to collect ball. However... those can be tweaked depending on what type of football you wanna play.

It eats in CA because it really does add a lot of ability though. Being able to receive a ball and send a short pass reliably with your weak foot makes a player much less prone to losing the ball while under pressure for example. Don't fall in tot the trap of only paying attention to the numbers your can see in the attribute view.

[craigd84]

Im not truly convinced, i have very one footed players who have been FAR superior to two footed players. I understand where you are coming from but i'd rather all my CA go into a players skill abilities than having them with two decent feet.

[santy001]

I'd make him a fullback. If you use attacking fullbacks the passing is already in place for him to contribute high up the pitch, looks like he could quite easily get some tackling and a bit of crossing (both 2-3 points higher) would be fantastic. 

[Seb Wassell]

On 04/08/2017 at 15:40, craigd84 said:

johnels DONT RETRAIN WEAKER FOOT, that eats into current ability like a lion.

 

Long range passes, dictate tempo, switches flank and comes deep to collect ball. However... those can be tweaked depending on what type of football you wanna play.

It's a balancing act. Being two footed does indeed use CA but not THAT much.

I would say it comes down to where you want the player to play. A DC, DR or AMR-Winger probably aren't going to benefit that much from being two-footed, but being able to use either foot could be a game changer for an AMC. An AMC that is capable of pulling off 17 (attribute) standard passes on both feet is going to be significantly more dangerous than an AMC that can only reach 17 on his right.

[craigd84]

3 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

It's a balancing act. Being two footed does indeed use CA but not THAT much.

I would say it comes down to where you want the player to play. A DC, DR or AMR-Winger probably aren't going to benefit that much from being two-footed, but being able to use either foot could be a game changer for an AMC. An AMC that is capable of pulling off 17 (attribute) standard passes on both feet is going to be significantly more dangerous than an AMC that can only reach 17 on his right.

Saying that though, I used Odergaard and he doesnt have a right foot from what i remember but in the AMC position he was immense. But as you say, it could be a balancing act.

[craigd84]

3 hours ago, santy001 said:

I'd make him a fullback. If you use attacking fullbacks the passing is already in place for him to contribute high up the pitch, looks like he could quite easily get some tackling and a bit of crossing (both 2-3 points higher) would be fantastic. 

Where do you see a full back in him?

[santy001]

15 minutes ago, craigd84 said:

Where do you see a full back in him?

He's a little shorter than I'd like for a DM, CM, or AMC, lacks the physical presence which while its not vital, definitely helps or adds an extra dimension. Or at least stops opponents with tall opponents dominating him in any aerial situations through the middle. 

Marking is already 13, tackling could reasonably get there as well, anticipation, decisions, work rate and positioning are in a good ball park, good movement in terms of pace, acceleration, balance and agility. 

It'd be straight forward to make him a right back, and with his passing, technique and first touch he would make such a double-edged threat able to provide high quality balls of all manners from the right. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

It's a balancing act. Being two footed does indeed use CA but not THAT much.

I would say it comes down to where you want the player to play. A DC, DR or AMR-Winger probably aren't going to benefit that much from being two-footed, but being able to use either foot could be a game changer for an AMC. An AMC that is capable of pulling off 17 (attribute) standard passes on both feet is going to be significantly more dangerous than an AMC that can only reach 17 on his right.

I've never seen a significant difference on ME behaviour & performance to warrant spending too much time training on improving a player's weaker foot, the cost is too much given the limited benefit in the ME, Of course it should be more beneficial to a player irl & therefore increasing ability withthe weaker foot is probably a decent habit to get into for the time when it becomes a truly important factor in the ME.

[enigmatic]

I think the benefit of developing his weaker foot depends heavily on where he plays. If he's usually deep or wide he'll have the time and space to use his stronger foot, in which case you might rather he used those training points on improving his defensive ability and being even better at passing. If he plays higher up the pitch in a role where he's usually got a defender marking him or closing him down, a bit more ability on his weaker foot gives him a lot more options (or fewer miskicks when he gets forced onto his left foot) , and that's worth sacrificing improvements in his decision making or stamina for.

Fullback would be an unusual option for a player with immense creative passing ability, limited defensive abilities and no crossing ability, unless you have a formation that uses IWBs as a major creative force. He screams "deep lying playmaker" to me.

[Seb Wassell]

14 hours ago, Barside said:

I've never seen a significant difference on ME behaviour & performance to warrant spending too much time training on improving a player's weaker foot, the cost is too much given the limited benefit in the ME, Of course it should be more beneficial to a player irl & therefore increasing ability withthe weaker foot is probably a decent habit to get into for the time when it becomes a truly important factor in the ME.

As I said above, the cost really isn't that great. You cannot train someone from 1-20 on their weak foot, so even if the whole scale ate up loads of CA you don't get close to that.

[santy001]

@Seb Wassell is the limit based on their starting point? For example, can a natural 20/10 go higher than a 20/1 or is it just a hard limit? 

I ask because I've noticed the option is still there to push it further, despite having a player up to "reasonable" on their weaker foot, which I would assume is somewhere between 8-12 (never paid enough attention to what label gets applied to footedness).

[Seb Wassell]

15 minutes ago, santy001 said:

@Seb Wassell is the limit based on their starting point? For example, can a natural 20/10 go higher than a 20/1 or is it just a hard limit? 

I ask because I've noticed the option is still there to push it further, despite having a player up to "reasonable" on their weaker foot, which I would assume is somewhere between 8-12 (never paid enough attention to what label gets applied to footedness).

Reasonable is 9-11. You cannot train a player that starts at under 10 to over 10.

[Saevel]

On 09/08/2017 at 13:47, Seb Wassell said:

Reasonable is 9-11. You cannot train a player that starts at under 10 to over 10.

So if a player starts with 8, it would stop at 10 no matter how many times I tried the "PPM"-training work on weaker foot?

 

How exactly does the weaker foot attribute work, anyway? If a player has 15 weak foot, does that mean a 25% penalty on all attempts with that foot, or does that mean that a pass with that foot will be capped on 15, even though the player has, say, 18 passing?

 

[Seb Wassell]

15 minutes ago, Saevel said:

So if a player starts with 8, it would stop at 10 no matter how many times I tried the "PPM"-training work on weaker foot?

Effectively yes.

16 minutes ago, Saevel said:

How exactly does the weaker foot attribute work, anyway? If a player has 15 weak foot, does that mean a 25% penalty on all attempts with that foot, or does that mean that a pass with that foot will be capped on 15, even though the player has, say, 18 passing?

More like the former but not exactly 25%.

[Saevel]

Ok, thanks!

Can't say a hard cap at 10 seems like a good idea, seems very arbitrary.

Also might contribute to the "problem" that occurs after a few decades, where a ton of regens end up very one footed and with inflated attributes, compared to the base of players when the game starts.

[ham_aka_stam]

I assume players "know" that they're weak-footed, and therefore avoid that foot? (Outside of the ppm of course).

Does their tendency to use their weak foot increase as their weak-foot rating increases?

It would be nice to have a "Weak Foot Preference" attribute.

[Seb Wassell]

2 hours ago, Saevel said:

Ok, thanks!

Can't say a hard cap at 10 seems like a good idea, seems very arbitrary.

Also might contribute to the "problem" that occurs after a few decades, where a ton of regens end up very one footed and with inflated attributes, compared to the base of players when the game starts.

A similar number of newly created newgen players should be either footed as in the original DB. Training doesn't really come into this one as you are comparing the original DB before any training and newgens at birth to one another. So whilst any issues with the number of two-footed newgens should be logged as bugs (here please - https://community.sigames.com/forum/518-other-gameplay-issues/) it is unlikely to be training related.

The reason it is capped is two-fold:

1. Very few players in reality are able to develop their weaker foot to an equal to, or even close to equal to, level as their stronger foot once past their early years. It is one of those skills that is picked up at a very young age or not at all, for example Gael Clichy being drilled by his father to use his weak (left) foot to the point that it became as good as his strong (right) foot during childhood. This occurs at an age before that at which players appear in FM and as such is not included in training but rather demonstrated by two-footed newgens coming through the system. As such some improvement is possible (1-10) but it is not possible to become either footed without putting in the work at a young age.

2. It prevents any crazy CA/attributes re-distributions (and exploits) as a player goes from unable to use their weaker foot to being two-footed.

[Seb Wassell]

1 hour ago, ham_aka_stam said:

I assume players "know" that they're weak-footed, and therefore avoid that foot? (Outside of the ppm of course).

Does their tendency to use their weak foot increase as their weak-foot rating increases?

It would be nice to have a "Weak Foot Preference" attribute.

Players will favour a side when maneuvering with the ball.

There is a Player Trait (PPM) called "avoids using weaker foot", the presence of this describes a player's willingness to use their weaker foot.

[BoxToBox]

5 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

A similar number of newly created newgen players should be either footed as in the original DB. Training doesn't really come into this one as you are comparing the original DB before any training and newgens at birth to one another.

The reason it is capped is two-fold:

1. Very few players in reality are able to develop their weaker foot to an equal to, or even close to equal to, level as their stronger foot once past their early years. It is one of those skills that is picked up at a very young age or not at all, for example Gael Clichy being drilled by his father to use his weak (left) foot to the point that it became as good as his strong (right) foot during childhood. This occurs at an age before that at which players appear in FM and as such is not included in training but rather demonstrated by two-footed newgens coming through the system. As such some improvement is possible (1-10) but it is not possible to become either footed without putting in the work at a young age.

2. It prevents any crazy CA/attributes re-distributions (and exploits) as a player goes from unable to use their weaker foot to being two-footed.

Is this a recent change? I'm sure I remember someone training a player from Left Only to two footed on here, with FM2014, Eder Alvarez Balanta, if I remember correctly.

[Seb Wassell]

2 minutes ago, BoxToBox said:

Is this a recent change? I'm sure I remember someone training a player from Left Only to two footed on here, with FM2014, Eder Alvarez Balanta, if I remember correctly.

I'm afraid I couldn't say.

[Rashidi]

I swear to God, the first time I saw his attributes I went playmaking fullback, imagine a fullback who can do deep diagonals!!! Thats all I see in him. To give you an idea. I have a player called Zunigga, I wrote about him on my blog. And its almost the same situation you are in. I brought him to the club to give myself more options. I want fullbacks who are cerebral, able to find a killer pass from deep, and it helps the way I play with my 442s. Since having fullbacks like this always gives me the option of doing something different with my side. I took him and added some player traits to his tool kit. It took him 6 months to become a natural in the position and his ratings are nothing short of impressive. I did a short write up of him here. 

And I agree with Seb about developing their second foot, if you read up on how Sporting Lisbon, develops their youth, you will find that two footedness comes either at a very young age, or not at all.  This is the club thats all about creating Ronaldo's and Figos

https://www.addictedtofm.com/art-of-retraining/