wales tactics

[bluebirdcarl]

really been impressed by the way chris coleman has set up the wales team in the euro's anyone know what formation that would come under and what roles all the players positions would be set at , can't seem to get my save to work

thanks

[fras]

3-4-2-1 or a 3-2-2-2-1 I'd surmise.

-----Chester (DC(S)) ---- Williams (DC (D)) ---- Davies (DC (S))-------

Gunter (DW (S)) ----Allen (DLP (D))---Ledley (BWM (S))----Taylor (DW (S))

-------------------------Ramsey (AM (S)) -------Bale (AM (A))-----------------

-----------------------------------Robson Kanu (DS (S)-------------------------

Or in a 3-2-2-2-1, just drop Gunter & Taylor back a strata and have them as wing backs.

The tricky bit would be the Ramsey & Bale combination. They are the key, and both get up and support Robson-Kanu, but Ramsey definitely has more defensive duties than Bale. I'm not sure a AM (A) is exactly how Bale plays for Wales, but with the addition of a few shouts, Move into Channels & Roam from Position, you could replicate the freedom he's given. Although he's Wales main playmaker (everything goes through him), his role doesn't really reflect that of a typical Advanced Playmaker.

It's a very effective system that Coleman has got them playing brilliantly. Would be an interesting challenge in FM to try and get it replicated.

[Fosse]

Find all of the Championship players with no chance of playing for England

[bluebirdcarl]

brill thanks very much for your reply

[eriktous]

I haven't tried anything in FM, but from watching last night, I'm thinking Bale and Ramsey play more in the CM strata. Perhaps Bale a CM(a), with some PIs (roam from position comes to mind), and Ramsey a BBM. I would have also swapped the duties on Allen and Ledley. Allen would often step into midfield in possession, while Ledley usually held position. I'm not even sure he played as a BWM; might as well be a DM(d).

[bluebirdcarl]

thanks i know its hard to pinpoint exactly how they all pan out doing my best to replicate

[johnnyyakuza78]

I'd say it was something like a 32311.. if that makes sense.

3 centre backs on defend, nothing complicated.

2 Wingbacks on support.

3 in central midfield. One on defence, one on support, Ramsey as a BBM (hes definitely got roam from position on)

1 Attacking midfield on support ( Bale was surprisingly anonymous throughout, but did a lot of defensive work so close down more)

1 Defensive forward

Counter mentality, structured or fluid, more direct passing.

[ashlfcowen]

Find all of the Championship players with no chance of playing for England

That's going really well for you.

[jcw163]

I've been trying to make this work since the Belgium win and have come up with the following, which seems to work quite well with a variety of teams (including Wales using the actual players). It's a 3-2-2-2-1, which the game has as a preset "5 defender tactics" as a 5-2-2-1WB (Not the DM version).

This gives you a square in midfield of 2 MCs and 2 AMs, 3 DCs, 2 WBs and a lone striker.

I've been using it as follows (Wales players)

Henessey - GKd

Chester - DCd

Williams - DCd

Davies - DCd

Gunter - WBs

Taylor - WBs

Ledley - CMd

Allen - CMs

Ramsey - AMs (in front of Ledley)

Bale - AMa (with dribble more and shoot more often PIs)

Vokes\Robson-Kanu - DFs (Vokes can be a TMs if you're happy for the boyos to hit it long occasionally)

I've left the structure on flexible as on structured it was hard to get Bale\Ramsey to go beyond the striker, and I have left the mentality on standard as we've seen (vs Russia, N.Ireland and Belgium) that Wales are not an exclusively counter attacking team and can keep the ball a little bit. Had 3 wins from 4 using this as Wales in the last of the Euro quals on FM16, including games home with Belgium and away to Bosnia, have also had decent test results with various club sides. Can't find a team to start a long-term game using this system though.

It's interesting because of the sort of "dual No 10s" we're using, I noticed Low did a similar thing with Muller\Ozil behind Gomez in the Germany vs Italy game. A new tactical trend perhaps, Coleman something of a trailblazer.

Let me know if you try this anyone, I'd be interested to see how it goes.

Cheers.

[chestermike]

Your all trying to replicate the system vs Belgium, why not try the tactic vs England.

Start with 5-4-1. Then drop all midfielders back into the defensive midfielder strata and have Bale move back into the amc strata. Set to contain, very structured, route 1 passing, time wasting always, etc etc.

[alinp]

I've been trying to make this work since the Belgium win and have come up with the following, which seems to work quite well with a variety of teams (including Wales using the actual players). It's a 3-2-2-2-1, which the game has as a preset "5 defender tactics" as a 5-2-2-1WB (Not the DM version).

This gives you a square in midfield of 2 MCs and 2 AMs, 3 DCs, 2 WBs and a lone striker.

I've been using it as follows (Wales players)

Henessey - GKd

Chester - DCd

Williams - DCd

Davies - DCd

Gunter - WBs

Taylor - WBs

Ledley - CMd

Allen - CMs

Ramsey - AMs (in front of Ledley)

Bale - AMa (with dribble more and shoot more often PIs)

Vokes\Robson-Kanu - DFs (Vokes can be a TMs if you're happy for the boyos to hit it long occasionally)

I've left the structure on flexible as on structured it was hard to get Bale\Ramsey to go beyond the striker, and I have left the mentality on standard as we've seen (vs Russia, N.Ireland and Belgium) that Wales are not an exclusively counter attacking team and can keep the ball a little bit. Had 3 wins from 4 using this as Wales in the last of the Euro quals on FM16, including games home with Belgium and away to Bosnia, have also had decent test results with various club sides. Can't find a team to start a long-term game using this system though.

It's interesting because of the sort of "dual No 10s" we're using, I noticed Low did a similar thing with Muller\Ozil behind Gomez in the Germany vs Italy game. A new tactical trend perhaps, Coleman something of a trailblazer.

Let me know if you try this anyone, I'd be interested to see how it goes.

Cheers.

So... pretty similar to the 3-4-2-1 box midfield used by Rodgers in 14-15 then?

[jcw163]

Yeh pretty much, except having sat through that Liverpool season (and the disappointment of it after 13/14) I think the main difference is the Wales players know where they're playing and what their job is, while LFC at that time started to look a bit lost a lot of the time! Sterling at wing back or up front, Markovic as a 10 etc etc. Poor Brendan, so nearly worked out.

[jcw163]

Also, just as an aside, I really enjoy the two bitter England fans on this thread. Lovely stuff.

[Earnie is God!]

Lol yeah me too. I could perhaps understand their frustration if we had held on for the win against them but it was their only victory in the tournament so they should be grateful

[alinp]

Yeh pretty much, except having sat through that Liverpool season (and the disappointment of it after 13/14) I think the main difference is the Wales players know where they're playing and what their job is, while LFC at that time started to look a bit lost a lot of the time! Sterling at wing back or up front, Markovic as a 10 etc etc. Poor Brendan, so nearly worked out.

I think that's a fair point - Coleman seems to have got them to all buy in to this system... something Rodgers failed to do (even though, for a time, it was successful).

[Earnie is God!]

I'm going to give this a go as my 3rd tactic and will use it sparingly to start with as I'm on a good run at the moment.

I sort of have the players to suit, although lacking one of the AMs and none of my strikers are really defensive so I might change the striker role.

Struggling a bit with the TIs though

[Earnie is God!]

Started with a 1-1 draw with my Cardiff side at home to Man City.

Restricted them to next to no chances at all but they scored from a corner early in the second half. Made a couple of subs after 66min and, as I mentioned above, as I didn't really have two proper AMs, took one of them off and replaced with a left winger, changed things around a bit and got the equaliser with 9min to go.

I think against teams where I'm going to need to stop them from playing, this might be decent. Would also help if I had all the players to fit the roles of course.

7 shots to Man City's 10 but just 37% possession so might have a tinker and see what I can come up with to improve that.

edit: as a result, City have sacked Pep and it's only the beginning of March so he didn't even last a full season. They are 5th with 10 games to go but only 5pts off 2nd

[bennymc]

I'm having trouble keeping the shape narrow without the ball, yet wide in possession.

My work around at the moment is to play on "Control" or "Attacking" to split the 3 into wider positions, while at the same time asking them to play more narrowly in team instructions. But I feel it's making the players a little too gung-ho.

Anyone got any suggestions?

[jcw163]

I've come back to this after watching us crush the mighty Moldova the other week and I've moved away from the box midfield I was using above to more of a diamond, something like the below (again, Wales players for reference)

GK - Hennessey - GKd

DC - Chester - DC

DC - Williams - DC

DC - Davies - DC

WBR - Gunter - WBs

DM - Allen - DLPs

WBL - Taylor - WBa

MCr - Ramsey - BBM

MCl - Ledley - CMd

AM - Bale - SS (with Roaming)

ST - Whoever you've got - TMs\DFs\DLFs\CFs depending on who is available.

(I think the striker role needs to depend on the available striker, I've been trying this with a few "better" clubs so can often pick a CFs in attack)

 

I've been using this on Counter\Flexible with no PIs and so far it seems to look pretty good. The team stay fairly deep and don't rush to move the ball forward, with the Allen role controlling things and always being available, while the wing backs create width and often find themselves in a good amount of space. Additionally in defence this brings everyone except the 10 and the centre forward behind the ball, and using the Shadow Striker role means that the 10 will also come deep as well as pressuring opposition defenders. When we go forward the Ramsey\Bale roles are quite direct and with the roaming instruction they can find space for through balls, one-twos and shots.

Planning on giving this a proper test later on today so fingers crossed I might finally have something I like.

[swansongs]

I would definitely have the outside centrebacks as BPD-S told to Dribble More. Davies and Chester are encouraged to bring the ball out of defence into the gaps either side of Allen when Joe is unavailable for a simple pass. 

And BBM feels too conservative for Ramsey for me. He comes deep to defend but makes very early, very high runs off the ball. A lot of times during the Euros he was playing as the most advanced Wales player (while still defending in the line of the midfield 3).

Need players with a lot of Stamina and Aggression, Off The Ball and Positioning to make this sort of system work imo.

[swansongs]

Bale's positioning reminds me more of a DLF or Trequartista in the Striker position than a Shadow Striker. His movement is usually to drop off to receive the ball rather than making forward runs without it.

 

[jcw163]

Agree with all of that Swansongs. If you look further up I tried to do something similar with Ramsey\Bale particularly. I've gone with the BBM because I was having a hard time getting the Ramsey-role player to cover as much ground as he needs to, he has to forage back as well as join the attacks, and as a CMa, or as an APs in the AM line he just wasn't doing what I needed. Similarly I found using the Bale-role player in the striker role (I started with this) as any of F9, Treq and CFs he either would not drop deep enough earlier in moves *or* would not go beyond the main ST to be the main goalscorer, with the SS and the roam PI (which I think is the main thing) he will pick the ball up deep and run at people or create chances as well as trying to get in the box. I think it's difficult on FM16 to replicate that sort of "This is our guy he basically is allowed to do what he wants" role that Bale has played to great success. I haven't tried the BPDs simply because the teams I used didn't have the players at the teams I'd tried this with, if you use Wales Chester\Davies don't really have the attributes, Chester in particular is woefully underrated if you ask me.

Give it a go in game and see what you think, I've only tried this version a few times but it looks more accurate than my other attempts in terms of where players are and the jobs they do. I'd be interested to see if your suggested tweaks produce good results, I really want to make this Coleman-ball system work!

[swansongs]

Ramsey may not defend deep enough due to the presence of Allen in the DM line. Moving Joe up into the midfield as a DLP-D in a flat 3 should make the Midfield and Defensive lines play closer together, as they won't have that spacer between them. 

How much the Striker positions drop off depends a lot on the overall mentality of the team. In an Attacking mentality they'll push up a lot, in Defensive they drop off a lot. Similarly in Structured systems they're more likely to stay high, and when Fluid they will resort to something closer to the set mentality.

I play almost entirely using Defensive mentalities (not necessarily defensive tactics, though), and the DLF-S drops off very deep for me in transitional play.

I've never seen significant enough difference between BPD and normal D play to worry about their attributes; if they're good enough for one, they're good enough for the other. Shorter passing or a Play out of defence instruction should keep them honest and away from hoofball beyond their means.

I haven't seen Chester's attributes recently but hopefully the Euros gave him a boost.