TT&F IV: New Strategies and Theories for '07

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by der:

I just hate this game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then why play? hoping to impress the ladies with your fm2k7 skillz?

[Jaz Guram]

Pretty insightful and fair play.

However, applying these kinds of frameworks and tactics to my own FM teams feels more like math homework than football. I can certainly see and appreciate the thinking and work that goes into it, but matching the x slider to my y position`s z slider just doesn't seem like a good organic game of football to me.

Although the hypocrite in me tends to very occasionally retreat to the TT&F thread when things aren't going well...but I certainly prefer doin things my own way and suspending my disbelief and trying to play the game as realistically as possible.

KUTGW wwfan

[lyw_85]

Hello wwfan, I have been reading yr tactical thread and have been playing this game for quite some time.

I dun mean any harm or being mean or anything, but I want to contest yr idea of having separate mentalities for every player.

May I ask why do you have to set individual mentalities for every player?

IMO, I feel this confuses the players on what they have to do.

Eg, If the team mentality is set to Attacking(15notches), then the player mentality is Defensive(3), the player should get confused on what he has to do.

The same goes with passing. How can the team passing be set to short when the player passing is direct.

I read the tutorial in the game and I noticed that a ballon with the words "tick to overide team instructions" appear when I float the mouse over the box in individual instructions.

This led me to believe that the best tactics is to keep it simple. Only certain players should have individual instructions. An example would be Manchester United 98/99. They had David Beckham in yr side and his instructions were quite different from the rest. His passing was more direct and he also had a higher closing down compared to Ryan Giggs. Therefore, while the team closing down was for eg, 12, his was set to 15.

IMO, individual mentalities should be set when a player plays differently from the rest of the team,eg a fast winger in a very defensive team or a DMC in a very attacking team.

I have set my tactics to a more global approach, with the Right-sided DC, MC and SC given individual mentalities to hold the team together, and closing down and CF tweaked for certain players. The bulk of the team remains on team instructions. However, during the match, if I feel a certain player is giving me problems, I change a player Individual instructions to counter that certain player.

I have achieved success with this approach using Derby County, Real Betis and Manchester United. Haven't tried the Lower Leagues yet, but I am confident that this approach might work.

This is not a mean post, or a complaining post so please do not get offended. I would be delighted to get yr reply on my theories and questions. Thanks =D

[Justified]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lyw_85:

Hello wwfan, I have been reading yr tactical thread and have been playing this game for quite some time.

IMO, I feel this confuses the players on what they have to do.

Eg, If the team mentality is set to Attacking(15notches), then the player mentality is Defensive(3), the player should get confused on what he has to do.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously haven't read the thread if you think wwfan has stated that team mentality should be attacking and defensive players should have defensive mentality. As far as aI know wwfan doesn't even touch the team mentality slider.

I think as wwfan has stated many times is that the frameworks are there as a base and you have to tweak them to the way you like it. If you want all the team being on the same passing then go ahead and do so as the approach wwfan has is very British. If you want a high CF team then change as well.

I downloaded and tweaked a while a go when testing with Toulouse and won the Champions League in the second season with quite a modest team.

[lyw_85]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you want all the team being on the same passing then go ahead and do so as the approach wwfan has is very British. If you want a high CF team then change as well.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason why I post, was to ask wwfan why does he use Individual instructions for every player? Is it more efficient? And if I have just use my own approach, then I won't really be following wwfan thread!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You obviously haven't read the thread if you think wwfan has stated that team mentality should be attacking and defensive players should have defensive mentality. As far as aI know wwfan doesn't even touch the team mentality slider. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I HAVE read the thread.

Iif wwfan sets individual instructions for every player, what happens when the opposition becomes more attacking? Tweak EVERY individual's instructions? I dun really see much sense for SI to design the game in this way, if every match we have to change everything.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I downloaded and tweaked a while a go when testing with Toulouse and won the Champions League in the second season with quite a modest team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mind stating what it is that you have tweaked to make Toulouse so good? I am sure there are many people on this forum who are curious on how you achieve this feat.

Again, I dun mean any harm, so go easy on me.

[Justified]

Reason why SI have made the game "this way" is because they are striving to get as close to reality as possible. Seeing as it's a manager simulation and not a game anymore you have to make some changes to cancel out your opponents threat but at the same time be potent in attack.

With Toulouse I hardly made any tweaks with the home framwork so my mentalities were 14-19 at home with Counter attack ticked if it was an opposition who were better the me. I didn't have the box to box MC's which is really required for this tactic so I had Bonnet (a young creative AMC) and EMana or Fabio as the holding player but I never let them swap positions because Bonnet was so poor at recovering the ball.

Away from home was more where I had to tweak. Sometimes I started with both Emana and Fabio in the MC positions because that gave more defensive stability. Up front Elmander had the rub of the green for me and scored quite a few goals however I wasn't 100% convinced about the attack but a simple buy of Frutos from Anderlecht solved it a bit as he was better at holding up the ball.

I regulated the D-line and closing down a lot away from home depedning on the opposition, sometimes I even lowered the mentalities with only the FC's and MC(a) on Normal with the rest on defensive against really good opposition (ment 3-8). If it was a really jammy opponent who played on the defence I would have those three on attacking rest on normal (ment 11-16).

I know it sounds like a lot of maths but tbh it is logical. IN FM07 you could get away with having 2 clicks between each player in multistrata formations because they would be "confused" so to speak. If you do so in FM07 the positions are more "loose" but the one click between each position gives an edge over the AI and also keeps your team together which is lovely.

With my current Leeds side I've gone a step further and tweaked the formation to my current team. In the Championshpi I had a team that could play 4-4-2 Diamond because Thompson whose on loan from Celtic makes it possible to play with an AMC (something that below the Premiership is usually not possible IRL as the quality of the player has to be quite good) and it was very successfull going all the way to the FA Cup final and beating Liverpool and winning promotion to the Premiership.

Now in the Premiership I have played around half a season (February if my mind doesn't escape me) but I've reverted to 4-5-1 because I bought heavily in the central midfield department with Tacchinardi and Merino coming in on free's. I also got some Brazilian called Felipe and Wobay who's a very springy left winger so I now play Felipe and Merino in midfield, Tacchinardi behind and we've done eceptionally well. Occupiying 4th spot but it's not been without it's losses, I think I got thrashed at various Premiership grounds but that's the lack of quality in the side.

[wwfan]

Nice to see you back, Jaz Guram. You don't need to apologise about your sneak peaks. The world would be a duller place without a little honest hypocrisy.

@ lyw_85: I won't be quite as harsh as Justified as you obviously have read the thread, even if your understanding is a little wayward.

I too argue about the problem of player confusion with heavily split mentality. However, I believe wholeheartedly that a split mentality system gives you an advantage over the AI, as long as you set it up logically and correctly. As Jaz Guram stated, my frameworks are quite mathematical although can be easily translated in real world terms as instructing the defence to be a little more focused on defending, the attack to focus on attacking etc. The RoO system was devised to minimise mentality gaps, thus being advantageous rather than detrimental. As for the passing, I advocate more direct passing from the defence than from the attack. Again, I think that is a logical construct and realistic in terms of real life instructions.

Without wishing to reignite any of the mentality debates, I work under the assumption (knowledge) that team mentality is totally and absolutely overidden by individual (as in all other dual instructions). My method is to build a system primarily out of individual innstructions whilst ignoring the team. As I believe one overrules the other, it makes team instructions irrelevant. Having team passing set to short means nothing if all your players have their passing set individually.

This is not to say your method is inferior. Using a general team mentality with a few individual settings should also give you an advantage. As long as you are doing well there is no reason to change. Although, as Justified said, downloading my sets and tweaking them to sit your side should convince you of their worth. I no longer follow my rules to a T, rather use the frameworks to build systems related to a) the type of football I want to play and b) the relative ability of my team to the opposition.

Hope that answers your questions.

[lyw_85]

Thanks wwfan, this has cleared up alot. Maybe I got abit confused with the other theories thrown around by other people.

I have another question though. Sorry!

If the defenders have direct passing while the forwards have short, won't the tempo and width collide with each individual passing instructions?

I will start to test with having individual instructions with team settings set to default right away!

[PAGEY124]

Nice work fan, however u have wasted ur time as this simply dosen't work

[Millie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PAGEY124:

Nice work fan, however u have wasted ur time as this simply dosen't work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Care to elaborate, or are you just going to go on your own poor implimentation of the method? Seeing as many people have had success with it, I'd like to see your obviously well compiled data which proves what a crock this system is.

[wwfan]

A quote from the original post:

I hope he won’t mind me saying this, but the majority of this user’s threads and comments are less than sophisticated and generally limited in their worth. This one, however, offered me the building blocks for a series of mentality frameworks that finally got my team performing in the manner I wanted. Titled simply ‘Experiment’, this thread by PAGEY124 revolutionised my thinking, and were it not for its existence I doubt I would be writing this thread right now. Implementing its mentality settings, although not his other suggestions, immediately produced the requisite quality change in playing style and the mentality frameworks I had been searching for.

So, in essence, he is saying the main factor of the frameworks, the Rule of One, his invention, is rubbish. Also, if it doesn't work, all my success must have been imagined, as has Millie's, as has Justified's, as has Crazy Gra's, as has aston_martin's, as has all the other people who have used these theories as basis for their tactics. A lot of delusional players around. Either that or we all cheat!

@ lyn_85: No, it doesn't work that way. Passing has a rough link with width and tempo, but the higher level you play, the easier it is to break. If you have really poor players, as I did when experimenting, linking more exactly is beneficial.

[PAGEY124]

Sorry fan, my message earlier was for some other topic not yours. My sincere apologies as i know perfectly well that this system works. The Mentality issue is definately the key to this game imo. I believe if u set most of your players on the same mentality then it doesn't really matter what formations u use or player instructions as 99% of the time the team plays as a solid unit. As the manual states mentality is probably the most important part of the tactic. I urge sceptics to try this out and see for themselves as this game can be cracked and u can win nearly every game even if you are Fisher Athletic. My advice to anyone starting out is to set your mentality according to your teams strenght i.e don't have them attacking if you are tipped to finish 24th in the league, and then find out the teams preferred stlye of play i.e tempo, passing width etc imo if you follow the above u cannot go wrong. Once again fan my apologies i was just so outraged on another topic i got carried away.

[CristianoSatinellio]

Dear wwfan,

you're a hero!! I'm really enjoying your tactics and tips. My defensive record is really impressive.

However, I'm still struggling with the away-tactic. Always the better side, but I'm losing a lot of points.. I'm using all your ideas, create enough chances but it still doesn't work.

Could you please help me out??

Cheers to you mate!

[Justified]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CristianoSatinellio:

Dear wwfan,

you're a hero!! I'm really enjoying your tactics and tips. My defensive record is really impressive.

However, I'm still struggling with the away-tactic. Always the better side, but I'm losing a lot of points.. I'm using all your ideas, create enough chances but it still doesn't work.

Could you please help me out??

Cheers to you mate! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll step in here since I've been doing it for a few days now hehe Hope wwfan doesn't mind.

Anyways I'll agree that picking an away version is so much harder then picking then the home one. At home I always use the 14-19 set UNLESS I'm clearly going to struggle (say if I was Watford at home to arsenal/Man Utd) I would go 11-16 split and a bit more narrower and slower tempo.

However away as said is tricky. Most of the time I go with the 6-11 but sometimes even though I'm a lot better I have to 3-8 to gain a bit more possesion. But if I go deeper sometimes it helps playing wider and more direct but as I said it's all about changing framworks whilst watching your team playing and if your loosing the ball too much you have to swap around. Unless you have a quality side like Chelsea/Arsenal/Man Utd where I would guess you have to play around less.

[thezogsageordie]

hi wwfan reading this has been good but i haven't really sprung into action yet after applying your tactics to mine! would you mind if i sent you or you downloaded my defensive and attacking tactics and you had a look at them? i saw you say that you help people (outside then fmworld (yes there is a "real world")) so if you could do this you would be a proper diamond! i'll upload them to fmdownloads.net if you don't want to then don't worry bout it!

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lyw_85:

I HAVE read the thread.

Iif wwfan sets individual instructions for every player, what happens when the opposition becomes more attacking? Tweak EVERY individual's instructions? I dun really see much sense for SI to design the game in this way, if every match we have to change everything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

firstly, more than one way of approaching tactics can be effective. some people have had some success with global mentality setings and/or global passing settings.

i prefer a system of individual settings based on 'rule of one' frameworks for two reasons:

1) varying mentality settings according to position results in a slight advantage vs the AI, which has been shown to (mostly) play global mentality. it makes sense that a) attackers would have more attacking mentality than defenders and b) if the mentalities are too far apart, there will be gaps in the formation.

2) varying passing settings according to position is especially useful when your halfbacks aren't brilliant passers (which is almost ALL halfbacks from league one on down). No use trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

also i find it useful to set some settings according to a particular players' skills: if he can't dribble i ain't gonna have 'im run wit' da ball, dig?

OK so i'm sure you can see where individual settings *might* give you a tactical advantage. seems you are saying it's a lot of work to keep changing them, and that's true. IF you change them individually each time. HOWEVER, SI designed a game where you can SAVE sets of instructions, so you can implement variations on your tactics according to the situation at the flick of a switch, once you've set up tactics for every situation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I downloaded and tweaked a while a go when testing with Toulouse and won the Champions League in the second season with quite a modest team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mind stating what it is that you have tweaked to make Toulouse so good? I am sure there are many people on this forum who are curious on how you achieve this feat.

not to put words in his mouth but the key is REACTING to what your opponent (the AI) does.

one example: if 'he' throws everything into the attack (the dreaded 4-2-4, for example) you use your shut-up-shop settings and rather than concede you may well find you're a goal to the good.

i find that using sets of tactics is actually easier to adjust than using the team sliders most of the time, although there are times i use the team sliders for some things.

only catch is when you adjust settings for individual players, which i should do for optimum effect, but rarely do out of pure laziness.

hope it makes sense.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

Without wishing to reignite any of the mentality debates, I work under the assumption (knowledge) that team mentality is totally and absolutely overidden by individual (as in all other dual instructions). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

not wanting to reignite the aforementioned debate, i've experimented a little with the global sliders and a RoO framework (a very regimented, graham-esque 442) and i find that the most extreme positions of the global mentality slider have a perceptible impact. ultra-ultra-defensive (all the way left) seems to override all, and ultra-ultra-attacking (all the way right) seems to override all also--usually ending in tears, at least in my case (conceding when i'm trying to catch up).

this is anecdotal--i haven't gone all scientific, which IMO would require playing the same match repeatedly with different settings and tracking the results. some day maybe, when i'm less lazy.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I no longer follow my rules to a T, rather use the frameworks to build systems related to a) the type of football I want to play and b) the relative ability of my team to the opposition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

which is how you present your frameworks in your writings--as guidelines, as starting points.

even in preset tactics, there is a lot of versatility to RoO--you can use it as a starting point to play the way you want to play.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zeusbheld:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lyw_85:

I HAVE read the thread.

Iif wwfan sets individual instructions for every player, what happens when the opposition becomes more attacking? Tweak EVERY individual's instructions? I dun really see much sense for SI to design the game in this way, if every match we have to change everything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

firstly, more than one way of approaching tactics can be effective. some people have had some success with global mentality setings and/or global passing settings.

i prefer a system of individual settings based on 'rule of one' frameworks for two reasons:

1) varying mentality settings according to position results in a slight advantage vs the AI, which has been shown to (mostly) play global mentality. it makes sense that a) attackers would have more attacking mentality than defenders and b) if the mentalities are too far apart, there will be gaps in the formation.

2) varying passing settings according to position is especially useful when your halfbacks aren't brilliant passers (which is almost ALL halfbacks from league one on down). No use trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

also i find it useful to set some settings according to a particular players' skills: if he can't dribble i ain't gonna have 'im run wit' da ball, dig?

OK so i'm sure you can see where individual settings *might* give you a tactical advantage. seems you are saying it's a lot of work to keep changing them, and that's true. IF you change them individually each time. HOWEVER, SI designed a game where you can SAVE sets of instructions, so you can implement variations on your tactics according to the situation at the flick of a switch, once you've set up tactics for every situation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I downloaded and tweaked a while a go when testing with Toulouse and won the Champions League in the second season with quite a modest team. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mind stating what it is that you have tweaked to make Toulouse so good? I am sure there are many people on this forum who are curious on how you achieve this feat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

not to put words in his mouth but the key is REACTING to what your opponent (the AI) does.

one example: if 'he' throws everything into the attack (the dreaded 4-2-4, for example) you use your shut-up-shop settings and rather than concede you may well find you're a goal to the good.

i find that using sets of tactics is actually easier to adjust than using the team sliders most of the time, although there are times i use the team sliders for some things.

only catch is when you adjust settings for individual players, which i should do for optimum effect, but rarely do out of pure laziness.

hope it makes sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

stupid quote boxes. gee i'm sure glad they trust us to edit our own friggin posts.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Millie:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PAGEY124:

Nice work fan, however u have wasted ur time as this simply dosen't work </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Care to elaborate, or are you just going to go on your own poor implimentation of the method? Seeing as many people have had success with it, I'd like to see your obviously well compiled data which proves what a crock this system is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

clearly doesn't work. the 10 or so additional games a season i've been winning since implementing RoO frameworks have been a combination of blind dumb luck and quality signings, in spite of the nearly instantaneous effect. i should just get out of the way, use the preset 442, and let the players do their thing.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PAGEY124:

Sorry fan, my message earlier was for some other topic not yours. My sincere apologies as i know perfectly well that this system works. The Mentality issue is definately the key to this game imo. I believe if u set most of your players on the same mentality then it doesn't really matter what formations u use or player instructions as 99% of the time the team plays as a solid unit. As the manual states mentality is probably the most important part of the tactic. I urge sceptics to try this out and see for themselves as this game can be cracked and u can win nearly every game even if you are Fisher Athletic. My advice to anyone starting out is to set your mentality according to your teams strenght i.e don't have them attacking if you are tipped to finish 24th in the league, and then find out the teams preferred stlye of play i.e tempo, passing width etc imo if you follow the above u cannot go wrong. Once again fan my apologies i was just so outraged on another topic i got carried away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oops my response was premature. i should learn to read ALL THE POSTS since my last visit before responding. i'm a ******. sorry.

[Guest]

Great post!

Just read for a few hours... phew..

I'll try to build a tactic based on RoO suitable for XBOX360 users..

I'll test it and let you'll know if it works...

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Katzo00:

Great post!

Just read for a few hours... phew..

I'll try to build a tactic based on RoO suitable for XBOX360 users..

I'll test it and let you'll know if it works... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Welcome. Will be interested to see if it works on the XBOX.

[Bryant4114]

Works to an extent but i find that i dominate games in terms of shots but rarely look like scoring, and the high line just means i leak goals and the computer rarely misses. Case in point a recent home game that i had 10 shots on target to 3 and drew 3-3 while one of mine was a penalty. And while i play well in terms of shots, my players never get good ratings, always 7s and 6s

Strikers always come too deep or wide to get the ball, should have forward runs on more

[Damo14]

using what wwfan has said is anyone able to make me a home and away tactic please btw well done wwfan couldnt be bothered reading it all though lol

[celtic2006]

is this worth reading because i kanny be botherd reading it all will it make me a better manager?

[ntfc]

Nice to see a WWfan thread, an enormous one by all means. Then again, what did i really expect after not playing the game for around 6 months?

[ntfc]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by celtic2006:

is this worth reading because i kanny be botherd reading it all will it make me a better manager? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would be worth reading " how to write and speak english". Anything by WWfan is surely worth reading. It may not be as ideally concise as i would of liked, but i'm definitely going to read it.

[celtic2006]

fuk off ya geek

[Kristian]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by celtic2006:

fuk off ya geek </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Having a bad weekend mate?

Continue to ask stupid questions, in a predictably inarticulate manner, and you're going to get mocked a lot. I'd get used to it if I were you.

[Bryant4114]

Definitely gonna have to remake em, tried persevering but after a couple of decent results i managed to lose at home to a crappy belgian side 2-0. I had 15 shots to 3, says it all. The defending is just not good enough with it, man marking and playing a high line just dont work

[Bryant4114]

To be fair though, was the condescending reply really necessary. If you antagonise people like that then they will get annoyed. Especially when it wasnt exactly ineligible

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by celtic2006:

fuk off ya geek </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

nice.

you ask "can someone please wipe my ass for me, i'm too lazy" and then throw a hissy when they won't give you a reacharound.

you're a class act sunshine.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by celtic2006:

is this worth reading because i kanny be botherd reading it all will it make me a better manager? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no, don't bother. you will always suck ass as a manager no matter what you do. call it fate, destiny, karma. whatever. tough luck that.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bryant4114:

To be fair though, was the condescending reply really necessary. If you antagonise people like that then they will get annoyed. Especially when it wasnt exactly ineligible </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so?

sorry but there are some who find "i'm too lazy to read this, break it down for me" to be quite antagonistic to begin with. include me in that number.

besides, i'm sure he can take it and won't cry his eyes out or anything. if not he shouldn't be dishing it out.

[Millie]

If you're asking questions such as "is it worth reading" then the answer is probably "no" for you since you probably don't have the mindset to read, learn and digest the information. That's not a dig at you, just a simple observation. If you really don't like learning, then this thread isn't for you.

Let's try and keep it civil. I know I'm usually the last to request that, but these things have a habit of hijacking a perfectly good thread.

[Justified]

Yeah, stop before Millie does one of those "capping a niggaz @ss" move on you

No but seriously, celtic2006 it is worth reading and will probably make you a better manager (and make you realize that grammar and spelling and no text speak on this forum is a major yes-yes). However cut out the abuse, there is no need for it.

zuesbheld try and rather ignore it then trying to stir up more. Also try and multi-quote within one reply because I believe this is the second time you've answered quotes with 3-4 posts.

Play nice lads

[ntfc]

I didn't mean to antagonise celtic 2006.But seriously, if i said yes, would that make you read it? if i said no, would that dissuade you from reading it?

[Dava]

just wondering on the theory worse the player less specific instructions better the player more specific instructions.... I find the opposite? the good players i just let them go do their stuff with mixed everything as they usually have a good decisions stat

[BigDPW]

When I set up my sliders for mentality and save then go to another tactic and come back why are they always changed?

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ntfc:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by celtic2006:

is this worth reading because i kanny be botherd reading it all will it make me a better manager? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would be worth reading "how to write and speak english". Anything by WWfan is surely worth reading. It may not be as ideally concise as i would have liked, but i'm definitely going to read it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice to see you back, ntfc. Bit of a problem critiquing written English and making a grammar mistake though Though you can spell definitely; the constant mangling of it is a pet hate of mine. Bothers me even more than 'loosing' for 'losing' and 'where' for 'were'! But I'm a pedantic idiot and make loads of mistakes myself which I then choose to ingore!.

celtic2006, obviously, I think it's worth reading, but I can be overly verbose at times, so if its length bothers you I would suggest Dayle Wood's Tactic Building for Dummies as it does roughly the same thing as TT&F but more concisely. Please don't clutter the thread with antagonistic responses. I'm sure you know from experience how people respond to 'I cannae be bothered' or 'fuk off' posts, so you can't be surprised at ntfc, zeusbheld, or Kristian's messages. I hope the above link helps you out but please refrain from swearing in my thread. Thanks.

Damo, nobody will make you a specific tactic. If you are interested in these ones specifically, there is a TT&F set at FMDownloads. Sort by actions and it is the fourth set down. There are also some other great sets there, all of which may help you out.

Bryant, interesting you are having problems with the high d-line. I'm working on perfecting that right now. Watch this space. If i can get it working I'll post soon as.

BigDPW, I have seen that happen sometimes if you switch between the tactics screen and player attributes. Save before checking on a player and you should keep the mentality settings.

[zeusbheld]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justified:

zuesbheld try and rather ignore it then trying to stir up more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<<ulp>>... sorry.

preferred moves:

"likes to wind up opponents."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also try and multi-quote within one reply because I believe this is the second time you've answered quotes with 3-4 posts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

will try and remember to do that. this was a byproduct of my multitasking and not paying attention. apologies in advance for next time i fail.

my first attempt at getting on the right path:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

BigDPW: When I set up my sliders for mentality and save then go to another tactic and come back why are they always changed? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

save the tactic after you make then check it afterward by switching to another and back. it erases opposition instructions sometimes when you attempt to save and switch, too.

[ntfc]

Hey WWfan, i don't really have a problem with any spellings or grammar. Just can't understand how sum ppl spk lyk dis man.

I have noticed there is no "off topic" forum no more, for what reason?

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ntfc:

Hey WWfan, i don't really have a problem with any spellings or grammar. Just can't understand how sum ppl spk lyk dis man.

I have noticed there is no "off topic" forum no more, for what reason? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dunno, it just stopped. I realise you don't have grammer/slepping problems but found it sumwat fuuny you made a mistake after pulling someone else up for it.

We're all human after all.

[ntfc]

That's a fair shout. It's going to take me some time to get my head around all these theories etc, i'm clueless of where to start.

Anyway, hows the PhD going? and the marriage?

[Guest]

I built a tactic for XBOX360 based on Ro0 rules..

It's a 4-4-2 with a flat midfield, 1 fast striker and 1 target striker..

The tactic seems to work well.. And yes.. it seems like the key to building a good tactic is matching mentality.

GK to mentality 4

CB to mentality 6

CB to mentality 6

LB to mentality 7

RB to mentality 7

MC to mentality 8 (This is my defensive MC)

MC to mentality 12 (This is my attacking MC)

LM to mentality 11

RM to mentality 11

FC to mentality 14 (This is my target striker)

FC to mentality 16

This seems a good mentality frame for both home and away matches.

Main thing.. and I miss this in WWFAN's story.

Are the free kicks

For defensive free kicks I set everyone to back except the strikers, they stay forward.

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Katzo00:

I built a tactic for XBOX360 based on Ro0 rules..

It's a 4-4-2 with a flat midfield, 1 fast striker and 1 target striker..

The tactic seems to work well.. And yes.. it seems like the key to building a good tactic is matching mentality.

GK to mentality 4

CB to mentality 6

CB to mentality 6

LB to mentality 7

RB to mentality 7

MC to mentality 8 (This is my defensive MC)

MC to mentality 12 (This is my attacking MC)

LM to mentality 11

RM to mentality 11

FC to mentality 14 (This is my target striker)

FC to mentality 16

This seems a good mentality frame for both home and away matches.

Main thing.. and I miss this in WWFAN's story.

Are the free kicks

For defensive free kicks I set everyone to back except the strikers, they stay forward. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

TT&F Set Pieces Guide

TT&F: How to Set Up a Target Man

TT&F: Learning to Read the AI

TT&F Tactic Sets

That is everything we have posted at SIG. I'm afaid you'll have to visit FMB to access anything newer.

[ntfc]

Hey wwfan, i was wondering if you could clear up a few things.

Firstly, i admit i have not read through the whole of this thread yet, due to other engagements. So forgive me if these questions are stupid or not clear.

These new strategies and theories, are they crystal clear, set in stone? or are they just assumptions which are not definitive and require further tests?

Would you recommend combining these strategies and theories with scout reports?

Lastly ( i promise), on a scale how far are these strategies and theories in comparison to 07'

[Crazy_T]

@ wwfan:,

I use globan mentality and play a 4-4-4 with short arrows but there always seems to be a big gap between the CB's and the CM's. Is there any way to tighten up an prevent this becuase it is costing me precious points. Also, what sort of closing down should I use on my CM's because I just don't know what is most effective?

Thanks for any answers.

[Crazy_T]

*4-4-2

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crazy_T:

@ wwfan:,

I use globan mentality and play a 4-4-4 with short arrows but there always seems to be a big gap between the CB's and the CM's. Is there any way to tighten up an prevent this becuase it is costing me precious points. Also, what sort of closing down should I use on my CM's because I just don't know what is most effective?

Thanks for any answers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always have one MC on FWRs rarely unless I'm trying to unpick the 3-3-2-1-1. If you don't, that could be the cause of the gap. A different cause could eb a low d-line and/or low mentality DCs with high pressing and/or high mentality MCs.

Closing Down: My current thoughts are low CD, easy tackling, tight marking for defensive systems grading upwards to high CD, heavy tackling, loose marking for attacking ones. Man-mark for defensive, zonal-mark for attacking.