Swap Position help.

[savagepenguin]

Hey, after looking at the swap position instruction, I've noticed that rather than being encouraged to target another player with which to swap positions with (as it has been in previous versions), our players are simply given the "swap position" instruction.

Now I'm gonna assume this means that any players with swap position as an individual instruction, will be looking to interchange positions with anyone else following the same instruction? Furthermore, if this is the case, how would it play out as we added the instruction to more players?

[RTHerringbone]

At the moment, Swap Positions is playing up.

The plan (I believe) is that swapping will be limited to "opposite" players, and only for those positions / Roles which permit a swap.

So, an AML can swap with an AMR, but not the ST. The MCL could swap with the MCR, but not an AM (as an example).

[davehanson]

I had noticed this option did not seem to be working, or at least for me it hasn't.

What I have wondered, and RTHerringbone you have said as much, is why the option to do 'multiple' swaps has been removed. In fairness it wasn't in last years version either, but the option to have, for example, an AML, AMR and ST all interchanging and swapping about should be in there imo. I see no reason this was taken away.

[RTHerringbone]

I had noticed this option did not seem to be working, or at least for me it hasn't.

What I have wondered, and RTHerringbone you have said as much, is why the option to do 'multiple' swaps has been removed. In fairness it wasn't in last years version either, but the option to have, for example, an AML, AMR and ST all interchanging and swapping about should be in there imo. I see no reason this was taken away.

Couldn't agree more. I used to do the exact same thing, and it's a shame that it has gone.

[savagepenguin]

Well I can't say I'm not disappointed. Seems odd that they would stop central and wide men swapping, but hey, if that's how it is that's how it is. So for clarification, it's not working at all in the beta?

[RTHerringbone]

Well I can't say I'm not disappointed. Seems odd that they would stop central and wide men swapping, but hey, if that's how it is that's how it is. So for clarification, it's not working at all in the beta?

No, and it is something that is being looked into.

[Britrock]

I had noticed this option did not seem to be working, or at least for me it hasn't.What I have wondered, and RTHerringbone you have said as much, is why the option to do 'multiple' swaps has been removed. In fairness it wasn't in last years version either, but the option to have, for example, an AML, AMR and ST all interchanging and swapping about should be in there imo. I see no reason this was taken away.

That was awesome a few FMs ago. I had a front three of LST, ST and RST that rotated (st to RST, RST to LST and LST to st) and I won the bundesliga with it. I missed it last year.

[Llew_Arshavin23]

I assumed there was a problem, and I'm glad I've stumbled upon this thread.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to using the 'Swap Positions' instructions as players use their own personalised instructions in respective positions. My Arsenal midfield - Mikel Arteta and Aaron Ramsey - will be even more true to life then.

[Cleon]

That was awesome a few FMs ago. I had a front three of LST, ST and RST that rotated (st to RST, RST to LST and LST to st) and I won the bundesliga with it. I missed it last year.

That kind of rotation has never worked and players could only swap position with 1 other player. You couldn't have a 3 way rotation and its always only been 2 ways.

[Auqakuh]

Err.

If you set "very fluid", you'll get lots of interchange of position naturally through player movement, especially if you also increase expression. So... why would you need "swap position"?

If your players aren't positionally capable enough to pull off very fluid, they won't be any better with specific instructions telling them to do the same thing, will they?

Not seeing the need or use for this except for wingers, tbh.

[davehanson]

That kind of rotation has never worked and players could only swap position with 1 other player. You couldn't have a 3 way rotation and its always only been 2 ways.

You could do a 3 way swap/rotation. I did it in either FM07 or 08, was Utd and had Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney all swapping. It definately was possible and it worked. It was then 'taken away' in a later version.

[Cleon]

You could do a 3 way swap/rotation. I did it in either FM07 or 08, was Utd and had Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney all swapping. It definately was possible and it worked. It was then 'taken away' in a later version.

It was actually a bug and while you could select 3 different players to swap only the initial 2 could swap with each other. There are posts about it in GQ section (or atleast there used to be but we've swapped forum software since then but they should still exist)of the forum from PaulC about it. 3 way swapping as never been available on any FM

I also believe another bug existed at the time too where players randomly swapped positions even when not instructed too. This bug was in the game for quite a while even after patching the game. Maybe this is what you was experiencing and not the actual swap position feature

[davehanson]

Okay, well if it was a feature that was overlooked by SI (don't really want to call it a bug), I still don't see any reason really why it was removed rather than implemented properly within the game? You probably won't be able to answer that, but just my thoughts, that t should be available to use. I accept that not many teams IRL do it, primarily because not many teams IRL have the resources to be able to make it work on the field (Utd with Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney was the obvious one that springs to mind).

I distinctly remember being able to set Ronaldo to swap with Rooney, then set Rooney to swap with Tevez and lastly set Tevez to swap with Ronaldo, and it worked! They did all swap about. I am sure I am not imagining things. I might be, it was a while ago now, and a lot has happened since then, but I am sure it all seemed to work as I had set it out.

But, anyway, I think you should be able to do it.

[ham_aka_stam]

They may have been swapping due to Roaming settings rather than the "actual" position swapping that FM used, because as has been said a 3-way swap never actually worked.

[davehanson]

I'm not doubting either of you tbh, as I said it was a long time ago now, however at some point over the next few weeks I may fire up whichever version it was and have a look again.

Does anyone know why the ability to do a 3-way swap has never been implemented by SI?

[Britrock]

It was actually a bug and while you could select 3 different players to swap only the initial 2 could swap with each other. There are posts about it in GQ section (or atleast there used to be but we've swapped forum software since then but they should still exist)of the forum from PaulC about it. 3 way swapping as never been available on any FM

I also believe another bug existed at the time too where players randomly swapped positions even when not instructed too. This bug was in the game for quite a while even after patching the game. Maybe this is what you was experiencing and not the actual swap position feature

Huh, fair enough. Sure I saw them all in their various different positions, but if not then so be it, I bow to your superior knowledge on the matter.

Still, a front three of Hulk, Sebastian Blanco and Juan Angel Albin was devastating for me as Bayer Leverkusen. Good memories, it's still the only time I've ever won the league on FM... :o

[Da_Funk]

That was awesome a few FMs ago. I had a front three of LST, ST and RST that rotated (st to RST, RST to LST and LST to st) and I won the bundesliga with it. I missed it last year.

That kind of rotation has never worked and players could only swap position with 1 other player. You couldn't have a 3 way rotation and its always only been 2 ways.

It was actually a bug and while you could select 3 different players to swap only the initial 2 could swap with each other. There are posts about it in GQ section (or atleast there used to be but we've swapped forum software since then but they should still exist)of the forum from PaulC about it. 3 way swapping as never been available on any FM

I also believe another bug existed at the time too where players randomly swapped positions even when not instructed too. This bug was in the game for quite a while even after patching the game. Maybe this is what you was experiencing and not the actual swap position feature

Cleon are you really sure? Not that I don't believe you but this is truly news to me.

I am sure that in pre-Fm13 I used the 3 rotation successfully, and I played 2D watching various actions in matches.

[Cleon]

Cleon are you really sure? Not that I don't believe you but this is truly news to me.

I am sure that in pre-Fm13 I used the 3 rotation successfully, and I played 2D watching various actions in matches.

Yups I couldn't be any more sure

What you and others might be seeing is players who are good roaming, off the ball or high team work and all link well together. But to get players to consistently swap positions on any version of FM it was only possible with 2 players , no more and no less. What was happening is people were selecting 3 players to swap around but it only worked for the 2 players who had each other listed as swapping with if that makes sense?

It was pretty well known in this section and in GQ that you could have have 2 players swapping via the swap position role.

That isn't to say players might not swap position on their own though if they have the attributes I mentioned above.

[Cleon]

I'm not doubting either of you tbh, as I said it was a long time ago now, however at some point over the next few weeks I may fire up whichever version it was and have a look again.

Does anyone know why the ability to do a 3-way swap has never been implemented by SI?

I think now that sliders have gone we will start seeing more things like this as the ME gets more sophisticated. Personally I'd like to see things like this not as tactical settings but more about a players personality and his PPM's. I think that is when FM can truly come into its own and offer even more variety and control. It would be great if players started dictating how something worked rather than the tactical instructions.

[Da_Funk]

What you and others might be seeing is players who are good roaming, off the ball or high team work and all link well together. But to get players to consistently swap positions on any version of FM it was only possible with 2 players , no more and no less. What was happening is people were selecting 3 players to swap around but it only worked for the 2 players who had each other listed as swapping with if that makes sense?

It was pretty well known in this section and in GQ that you could have have 2 players swapping via the swap position role.

Do you know why this is news to me?

Because while playing with the 3 swaps I had a feedback from the "Team Formation" sub menu in real time during the match. The players shirts changed position even there every 7 minutes or similar.

[Llew_Arshavin23]

Does anybody know if the this bug has been rectified in the beta update?

[simonbyrneno.4]

Any update on how the final swap positions is going to work?

[RTHerringbone]

It hasn't been fixed in the Beta version we have now, but work is in progress and things should be improved for Release.

As far as I know, it will only be available in wide midfield slots, and will be selectable via Team Instructions, and not via Player Instructions.

[Llew_Arshavin23]

It hasn't been fixed in the Beta version we have now, but work is in progress and things should be improved for Release.

As far as I know, it will only be available in wide midfield slots, and will be selectable via Team Instructions, and not via Player Instructions.

If that is the case - which seems likely as they've taken the 'Swap Position' option out of the player instructions, it is an absolute travesty. I was looking forward to having my central midfield pairing swapping positions, especially with the new individual instructions feature.

I would use a sad face emoticon to emphasise my sadness and displeasure at SI's decision to rid of the 'Swap Positions' feature, but I don't like emoticons. *sad face*

[RTHerringbone]

If that is the case - which seems likely as they've taken the 'Swap Position' option out of the player instructions, it is an absolute travesty. I was looking forward to having my central midfield pairing swapping positions, especially with the new individual instructions feature.

I would use a sad face emoticon to emphasise my sadness and displeasure at SI's decision to rid of the 'Swap Positions' feature, but I don't like emoticons. *sad face*

What sort of Roles do you use centrally?

I generally have quite different Roles in central midfield, so swapping them isn't something I would tend to want to do.

[Llew_Arshavin23]

What sort of Roles do you use centrally?

I generally have quite different Roles in central midfield, so swapping them isn't something I would tend to want to do.

Well, the idea was with the new individual instruction feature to preset my midfielder's roles in both the MCL and MCR positions, then applying the 'Swap Position' instruction to them - in theory, ensuring even more fluidity and unpredictability within my midfield. For example, I would preset Mikel Arteta (deep-lying playmaker) and Aaron Ramsey's (box-to-box midfielder) individual instructions in both the MCL and MCR, so once they'd swap their midfield postions, they'd still fulfill their individual roles within the team's midfield.

I was really looking forward to it. Sadly, it hasn't come to fruition for one reason or another.

[RTHerringbone]

Ah, now I see.

I guess the counter argument is that in central areas, zonal marking is more common than man marking, and so the effects of a player swap would be less evident.

By limiting it to wide players, the logic of player swapping becomes more effective as man marking wide men is more common.

As a result, if AML swaps with AMR, then DR and DL (or whoever is marking them) on the other side have to have their fundamental setup tweaked to mitigate the effects of the swap.