Creating a Tactic – From the Beginning

[HoW]

Another great post Cleon, i am going to see if i can incorporate some things into my tactics now, thanks again.

[Aachen4Ever]

Brilliant thread Cleon! Hope to set up a good tactic with TT10 and your advice in this thread.

[Corkey]

Cleon, you say you choose Rigid over Fluid because you like to know what you players are doing. So do you choose Rigid, no matter what team? (If you were to use the TC)

[Cleon]

Cleon, you say you choose Rigid over Fluid because you like to know what you players are doing. So do you choose Rigid, no matter what team? (If you were to use the TC)

Well I normally avoid the TC but for threads like this I'll be using it. As for which I'd choose I guess it depends on what I was expecting from the players and how I wanted the tactic to play out. Tbh because I go and change player settings individually It doesn't matter which I choose in the end.

[Jenko_EFC]

Thanks for this extremely helpful if you change the d-line manually can you still use the shout Drop Deeper or if you change the width manually can you still use shouts like play narrower. Bit confused as I normally use classic but you inspired me

[IredzIPenguin]

This is definitely a nice addition to the forum, but are you going to do one where you start as a weak team (like Hull)?

[Cleon]

This is definitely a nice addition to the forum, but are you going to do one where you start as a weak team (like Hull)?

Why? I'd still create the same way so that would be pointless.

[Noel Gallagher]

This is definitely a nice addition to the forum, but are you going to do one where you start as a weak team (like Hull)?

He has already done a thread with a weaker team as he did it with Sheff Utd. You should check out that thread as it is very helpful

[Cleon]

He has already done a thread with a weaker team as he did it with Sheff Utd. You should check out that thread as it is very helpful

Sheff Utd weak? Banned!!!!!

[Noel Gallagher]

Sheff Utd weak? Banned!!!!!

If I say 'Sleeping Giant' instead will that revoke my ban?

[ObaMartins09]

I heard that Wednesday are a bigger side.

[Cleon]

If I say 'Sleeping Giant' instead will that revoke my ban?

Yeah:D

I heard that Wednesday are a bigger side.

Ermm but yeah I did the Sheff Utd Project and we were weak when I did the premiership, so look at that thread for how I set up for that. This thread was more about creating a tactic from the beginning as I'd not really discussed that yet

[glenn28]

Great reading ive based my Tactic on this with a few tweaks.

[MrFrench]

Cleon, first i want to thank you for all the help i got from reading your posts.

I am in my 4th season with the French Team "Louhans-Cuiseaux." I have an objective of reaching Ligue 1 within 5 years and i did pretty good so far.

1st season:media prediction in national championship 14th place.

2nd season: way above media prediction and promoted to ligue 2

3rd season: very good season with a 5th place only, 6 points from another promotion.

4th season: currently playing it and i am 4th in october, only a couple of points from the leader.

It's a very small club with not a lot of money but i'm doing alright so far.

My question is how important is the choice of game philosophy?

I've been playing with a very fluid philosophy because i don't have strikers with high decision attributes. However, i Tend to concede a lot of goals even if i play a with a normal or counter mentality.

Do you think it could be linked to my philosophy? Should I go with a more rigid one? How do you make this decision?

[Cleon]

Cleon, first i want to thank you for all the help i got from reading your posts.

I am in my 4th season with the French Team "Louhans-Cuiseaux." I have an objective of reaching Ligue 1 within 5 years and i did pretty good so far.

1st season:media prediction in national championship 14th place.

2nd season: way above media prediction and promoted to ligue 2

3rd season: very good season with a 5th place only, 6 points from another promotion.

4th season: currently playing it and i am 4th in october, only a couple of points from the leader.

It's a very small club with not a lot of money but i'm doing alright so far.

My question is how important is the choice of game philosophy?

I've been playing with a very fluid philosophy because i don't have strikers with high decision attributes. However, i Tend to concede a lot of goals even if i play a with a normal or counter mentality.

Do you think it could be linked to my philosophy? Should I go with a more rigid one? How do you make this decision?

Fluid can be used as defensive as rigid can be used as an attacking one. However it makes more sense to be rigid unless you have lots of players who could be classed as creative. Then it would make more sense to take a fluid approach. I don't think it matters that much, especially for me as I still change players individual settings. If you're unsure though just stay balanced and try different philosophies during games and see if you can notice anything.

[MrFrench]

Fluid can be used as defensive as rigid can be used as an attacking one. However it makes more sense to be rigid unless you have lots of players who could be classed as creative. Then it would make more sense to take a fluid approach. I don't think it matters that much, especially for me as I still change players individual settings. If you're unsure though just stay balanced and try different philosophies during games and see if you can notice anything.

Will this disturb my team as they are use to play this way?

[Cleon]

Not really, the philosophy isn't that important

[mag man]

So I have made my AMC a bit more defensive and am now seeing him be much more involved in the build up play. I also dropped my two midfielders from MC to DMC and have become a lot more solid defensively.

I will post a end of seasons stats when I get there.

[Cleon]

So I have made my AMC a bit more defensive and am now seeing him be much more involved in the build up play. I also dropped my two midfielders from MC to DMC and have become a lot more solid defensively.

I will post a end of seasons stats when I get there.

Ahh you was using the 4-2-3-1 as well but with MC's? I think I remember you posting elsewhere about the AMC not been involved and playing poorly at times. I'd be interested to see how he acts now compared to before

[mag man]

I had the MC's set up as defensive but I prefer having them deep and allowing 1 to push forward from deep.

Statistically (goals/assists) the AMC isnt much better than before but when I watch the game I prefer his contributions and am happy that he doesnt go missing for large parts of the game.

[DanTheMan999]

I've always been rubbish with sliders, so just a quick question.

Setting the AMC as having a defensive personality, would that only mean the way he poisitioned himself? Would it now affect his game in other ways?

[ObaMartins09]

I believe (could be wrong) that it will make his passing a bit more cautious? He'll play more backward passes, and look to keep possession rather than always look for the attacking ball forward.

[Noel Gallagher]

I've always been rubbish with sliders, so just a quick question.

Setting the AMC as having a defensive personality, would that only mean the way he poisitioned himself? Would it now affect his game in other ways?

He will contribute more to the transitional periods of play. He wont just make himself available for the attacking phases of play. That's my perception anyway.

[DanTheMan999]

Wouldn't that be if he was set to normal? Because using that logic, he would only dontribute to defensive parts of play?

[ObaMartins09]

Still has through balls on often though. I think he'll have a more defensive mentality (way of thinking) but if the opportunity arises he'll use his decision making to make the choice.

[Noel Gallagher]

Wouldn't that be if he was set to normal? Because using that logic, he would only dontribute to defensive parts of play?

Not quite.

Setting the mentality of an attacking midfielder to defensive does not make him behave in the same way as, for example, a defender with a defensive mentality. That's how I've always interpreted it anyway. I'm sure Cleon will be able to offer a more clear explanation than myself though.

[Cleon]

I've always been rubbish with sliders, so just a quick question.

Setting the AMC as having a defensive personality, would that only mean the way he poisitioned himself? Would it now affect his game in other ways?

As he is highly advanced he would just drop deeper, but when you lose the ball he would act more defensivley. That's what I want from my AMC. I want him to help win the ball back high up and be creative when attacking.

I believe (could be wrong) that it will make his passing a bit more cautious? He'll play more backward passes, and look to keep possession rather than always look for the attacking ball forward.

Spot on.

He will contribute more to the transitional periods of play. He wont just make himself available for the attacking phases of play. That's my perception anyway.

Yups:thup:

Wouldn't that be if he was set to normal? Because using that logic, he would only dontribute to defensive parts of play?

No because he isn't a defensive player, his position is attacking. So when not in possession he will act as a defensive player, but in possession he will still be creative but look to retain possession rather than bomb forward on his own and lose the ball. The reason he has defensive mentality is purely a positional thing I do. It's so he stays in the hole between the midfield and defence when attacking.

It's like having a fullback on attacking mentality, when attacking they go forward. But when you lose the ball they still defend don't they?

[Cleon]

Not quite.

Setting the mentality of an attacking midfielder to defensive does not make him behave in the same way as, for example, a defender with a defensive mentality. That's how I've always interpreted it anyway. I'm sure Cleon will be able to offer a more clear explanation than myself though.

Exactly. I use it for positional play and keeping players in areas of the pitch I think they can be most effective in.

Still has through balls on often though. I think he'll have a more defensive mentality (way of thinking) but if the opportunity arises he'll use his decision making to make the choice.

Pretty much yeah, he hangs back a lot more than when on attacking mentality. And for a plymaker I think it's vital they are deep to influence the game.

[Corkey]

Cleon, I'm going to make a 4-5-1 with Hull (1st Season).

Counter

Fluid

Direct (Due to having lesser player than most Teams.)

Less Expressive

GK- Keeper

FBs- Full Backs (Defend)

DCs- Central Defenders (Defend)

DMC- Anchor Man (Defend)

MC- Ball Winning Midfielder (Support)

MC- Central Midfielder (Attack)

AML- Inside Forward (Support)

AMR- Inside Forward (Support)

ST- Advanced Forward (Attack)

I'm hoping that the Advanced Forward leads the line, creating a hole behind him for the Inside Forwards to exploit.

Do you reckon that would work Okay? or is Catastrophic?

Cheers, and Nice Thread (Very Motivating )

[Noel Gallagher]

Hi Corkey,

If you have your advanced forward moving into channels, that will also create space for your inside forwards as the defender marking him will be dragged out of position.

[Corkey]

Hi Corkey,

If you have your advanced forward moving into channels, that will also create space for your inside forwards as the defender marking him will be dragged out of position.

Okay Thanks for the Tip

The only thing that I'm really concerned about is if I should choose Attack roles on the Inside Forwards...

[Cleon]

You've gone counter, direct and less expressive I'd personally not go fluid. I'd stick with balance or rigid. As you hope to play counter attacking you need the players in the corect positions so rigid makes more sense imo.

[Corkey]

You've gone counter, direct and less expressive I'd personally not go fluid. I'd stick with balance or rigid. As you hope to play counter attacking you need the players in the corect positions so rigid makes more sense imo.

Hmm Okay then

I thought every manager kept to the same Philosophy? for Example, if Pep Gaurdiola was to get sacked and take the job at, well Hull for example , then he would stay with the same Philosophy wouldn't you think? but of course he would change the passing style and so on....

Anyway, what do you think of the whole set-up? Would that work if I was to change the Philosophy?

[Cleon]

Hmm Okay then

I thought every manager kept to the same Philosophy? for Example, if Pep Gaurdiola was to get sacked and take the job at, well Hull for example , then he would stay with the same Philosophy wouldn't you think? but of course he would change the passing style and so on....

Anyway, what do you think of the whole set-up? Would that work if I was to change the Philosophy?

So you think Wenger would try and play fluid at somehwhere like Hull?

Philosophy - philosophy positions the players relative to each other. It's the framework around which the team is built, dictating where players should be playing relative to their team mates. For example, on the rigid philosophy, everyone is spaced out so that the centre backs play slightly behind the full backs, who are behind the midfielders, who are behind the wingers, etc. For the more fluid ones, these distinctions are not as clearly defined.

Philosophy provides the framework so that the roaming player knows where they're roaming from.

Millie explains it better than I could with that quote.

[Corkey]

So you think Wenger would try and play fluid at somehwhere like Hull?.

Well, in terms of FM10.. yes?

[Cleon]

Well, in terms of FM10.. yes?

Not really no. Even IRL he wouldn't due to Hull not having players capable of been fluid in the transition phases between defence and attack. It would take him some time before they could play a fluid philosophy successful.

[Corkey]

Not really no. Even IRL he wouldn't due to Hull not having players capable of been fluid in the transition phases between defence and attack.

Okay then

So anyway, what about my Set-Up, this time using 'Rigid'...:confused:

[Cleon]

Seems fine.

[stuartM]

cleon, i am in need of help and i thought you could help me. this is my first attempt at a tactic and i am going to try it with man utd because it is easier than someone like stoke. any way i want to play a slow control passing game working our way into the box, here are our team instructions, can you give me any advice to improve please

p.s. i play a 4-1-2-1-2 narrow diamond

[Corkey]

Seems fine.

Really

I was thinking about using the 'Backroom Advice' screen before the games...?

If they say that our team plays well when Playing a 'Deep' Defensive Line, then I'll set it?

Then if the Opposition struggles against teams who play 'shorter' passing then I should set that, even though I'm not too good at passing?

[Tubey84]

Quick question - cba making a new thread for it.

Exactly how does the Decisions stat influence the mentality of the players?

The reason I'm asking is because when you use the "Views" part of the tactic screen to select player mentality, it shows the Decisions stat as the key stat in deciding mentality.

[Cleon]

Quick question - cba making a new thread for it.

Exactly how does the Decisions stat influence the mentality of the players?

The reason I'm asking is because when you use the "Views" part of the tactic screen to select player mentality, it shows the Decisions stat as the key stat in deciding mentality.

The ability of a player to make a correct decision a majority of the time. This attribute is important in every position but perhaps more so for central defenders and midfielders, who will see a lot of the ball and have a number of options when in possession.

Probaby viewable on mentality as stats don't determine what mentality someone can play, but decisions is important for every player.

[Tubey84]

The ability of a player to make a correct decision a majority of the time. This attribute is important in every position but perhaps more so for central defenders and midfielders, who will see a lot of the ball and have a number of options when in possession.

Probaby viewable on mentality as stats don't determine what mentality someone can play, but decisions is important for every player.

Thought so - just seemed so vague, so I thought there was more to it ^^

Cheers

[dz47]

Cleon

First i'd like to say thanks for creating another great thread with some excellent ideas to get our brain-juices flowing!

After seeing your set up in this thread and comparing that to the set up in your Sheffield thread, and your comments in the thread on ‘playmakers’ I’d be really interested in your thoughts on something.

I’m about to start a new save with Arsenal, and determined to set up a tactic that has some chance of getting Fabregas (and the team collectively) to play as he is currently IRL; ie critically involved all over the central area of the pitch, scoring a bunch of goals and assists, and putting in a good defensive shift. One thing I do want to improve on is limiting the goals conceded without sacrificing attacking potency. To do this I’m considering either a 451 or a 4231 (as arsenal are set out in the tactics guide if I recall correctly), or some kind of combination of the two.

One of the things I’ve been considering is the role of the playmaker. In your opinion/experience, would I be better off playing with Fabregas as an advanced playmaker in the AMC position, but with lower mentality (ie similar to how you have your AMC set up in this thread), or putting him in the MC spot (advanced playmaker or CM attack/support?) with a more attacking mentality? If I were to take the second option, I’m then wondering how best to set up the other two CM/DM’s.

With reference to this, I was thinking either something similar to your Sheffield set up with a ball winner MC with a holding role, and a deeper DM with a bit of license to roam forward and create problems from deep areas (ie either with deep playmaker set up or DM support set up). I plan on experimenting with these set ups in the tactics creator, but will then look to transfer this into the classic set up once I’m happy so that I can then make more subtle adjustments as I seek to ‘perfect’ the tactic.

Sorry if this is a bit confusing (I’m at work and typing quickly so I don’t get busted!), but hopefully you follow what I’m getting at. Any thoughts/comments/suggestions you might have would be really appreciated.

Cheers in advance.

[Darklight118]

Cleon I've been reading through your threads and I notice that you dont seem to like playing a normal 4-4-2 formation, is there any reason for this??? I've been playing a flat 4-4-2 and I seem to have problems against teams which employ an attacking midfielder. With a normal flat 4-4-2, how would you play against say a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 diamond, I find the flat 4-4-4-2 struggles against those formations.

[padaxes]

Great read cleon. I may have missed this but do you make any changes when playing away games?

[wacanda2]

tank's cleon..u make me understand a lot of thinghs...i create a tactic similar at the liverpool one witn some tweak for my fiorentina squad...and trust me....i cant' loose 1 game....is pretty amazing..

[dz47]

don't mean to be impatient, but are you going to keep this thread going Cleon? Would love a response to my post above.

cheers

[Cleon]

don't mean to be impatient, but are you going to keep this thread going Cleon? Would love a response to my post above.

cheers

I am yes but I'm busy and not on call 24/7:D;)

I simply don't have the time for a detailed response (in any thread) yet.

[Cleon]

I've just had a quick look at my Arsenal save I use from time to time. I'm set up using a 4-1-2-2-1 and think I'm getting the best out of a lot of Arsenal players. Look at this screenshot;

Would Fabregas be as involved as you'd like? Or would you expect him to score more?

When I get time later this afternoon I can post a few of the settings up to give you an idea of how I play. I'll need to know which positions you need help with though. I know you say Fabregas and probably the DMC/MC's. But no point me posting about my save if you're not happy with Fabregas performance for me.

Wilshire and Merida scored goals when I left Fabregas out of the squad and rested him. They scored them from his position, so he should have had a few more goals. His goal tally should slightly improve each season anyways.