herne79

Again, it's the little things that irritate. I have a Board objective to develop the best youth system in the country. Training facilities, Junior coaching and Youth recruitment are all maxed out. Only Youth facilities has some (minor) room for improvement. I've been checking in with the Board regularly all year to see if I can ask to improve the Youth facilities and at no point has the option appeared. And then I get the message below. ok, I'm not about to get sacked or lose any sleep over it, it's just another example of one of the many minor issues where the game is disjointed and inconsistent. - How can I achieve the Board objective if I can't interact with the Board accordingly? - Why does the squad list tell me player happiness yet agents tell me something different? - How can a player be unfamiliar with a role (and be "upset" when asked to play it) when he's been playing that exact same role (and playing it well) for 2 years? (Too much coding focus on attributes rather than contextual performance?) - Why do some of my players appear to be only "Competent" at their Position/Role/Duty on their individual Tactics screen when again they've successfully been playing their Position/Role/Duty for 2 years? (As above?) - Similarly why do the partnership lines on the Tactics screen not take better account of how my players are actually performing together rather than still being overly focused on attributes? (Currently 3 of my 5 partnership lines state players have only "fairly decent" partnerships yet I've just finished 3rd in the league on goal difference and with the second best GD in the division. Even my central defenders have only a "fairly decent" partnership yet I've conceded (by one) the second fewest goals in the league. I'd call that pretty darn good). - Why are we still stuck with odd looking newgen faces? And so on. Rhetorical questions of course, just used to illustrate the type of minor issues that exist which individually are largely meaningless but collectively add up. Of course I've been around long enough to know about bug reports and providing game saves etc but this isn't about bugs, it's about feedback. And at the moment my feedback, having just picked up the game a couple of weeks ago, is really one of disappointment. It's a good game (the ME is very good) but as mentioned here and above, in my opinion it's held back by minor irritations, inconsistency, odd looking graphics, the player interaction module and a very tedious new style cup draw.

Just a little follow up to this. Below is one of my players who is apparently "happy" with his agreed playing time of Fringe Player, even though his actual playing time is "surplus to requirements". There's one issue in terms of consistency - why is he happy if he isn't getting the agreed playing time? And then his agent comes to me saying the player is unhappy with his playing time and wants more. ok, I can accept a player might want more playing time and would be unhappy about it, but why is the first screen telling me he's happy? A second issue with consistency. It's like the left hand and right hand don't know what each other are doing, there's no communication between the two. I then have to walk the inconsistent, awkward, clunky, unintuitive, something to avoid at all costs minefield which is the player interaction module, which is well past it's sell by date and needs something new. I'm highlighting this because this is the type of small detail which holds the game back. Individually such minor issues are barely worth a mention, but collectively - because there are many - they combine to not exactly spoil the game but certainly take the shine off it.

excellent [ ek-suh-luhnt ] adjective. possessing outstanding quality or superior merit; remarkably good. Archaic. extraordinary; superior. Football Manager. mediocre; lacklustre.

One thing to bear in mind when using these preset tactics - they’re not, and never have been, designed to be used out of the box. Their creation was only ever meant as a starting point, something for us to adapt as we see fit based on match performance and the players at our disposal. The context can also be important, for example using one of the more defensive presets may be a bad idea from the get go but may be more beneficial to use for the last 10 minutes of a close match when hanging onto a lead. The different presets will also require more or less adapting and sometimes they’ll work without many (or any) changes. So test them for sure but don’t be surprised if some work better than others without making changes because that isn’t what they were designed to do 👍.

Having skipped FM22 I took the plunge recently and bought FM23 so thought I'd leave some feedback. On a positive note, I quite like the new Squad Planner. It's a nice quick reference guide for who I may have coming through the ranks in each position and where possible gaps are (once set up). It's a handy feature to have. I know it's from FM22 but I also quite enjoy Deadline Day. Colours change and there's an added sense of urgency and drama. The new european cups graphics / music don't disappoint either and is a welcome addition. I was also looking forward to the new style cup draws as I've always enjoyed watching the european cup draws unfold - it was brisk, fun and engaging. Not any more however. This was my exact thought process as I watched my very first Europa Conference draw: "Great, love the graphics, wonder who I'll get? ok, first team out of the hat, seems a little slow. Second team - wow this is slow. Aha - speed x3, awesome. oh still slow... Ahh an Advance button. ok that's quicker but I'm not sitting here clicking 50 times - Advance to end. Well that sucked." So the draws for me have gone from a fun and engaging process (without flashy graphics) to a completely unengaging single button click to avoid the now tedious draws. A happy mixture of the two would be great. And speaking of graphics...no, not stadiums or the 3D graphics engine in match (which I actually think are alright). And not even the completely pointless manager editor at the start of the game. I'm talking about newgen faces: Every time I click a newgen's profile I have to look at something like this. Honestly it's just not up to the standard of the rest of the game and actually seems to be regressing. Looking at a profile is the only time we actually get to see our players in any sort of close up. It sucks the life out of immersion and quite frankly isn't good enough. In terms of immersion breaking I've also spent all previous FM iterations avoiding - as much as humanly possible - speaking to my players and it's sad to see nothing has changed in this respect. Limiting myself to praising a hattrick or a great week in training is all well and good but anything more is a minefield. Case in point - an agent comes to me saying he thinks his client deserves a new contract and considers himself to be an important player. I check my squad list first and see the player in question is "Satisfied" with his game time against his agreed playing time of "impact sub". I talk to the agent (only because not doing so will upset things) and sure enough I have no option to say "what are you talking about, Dave is satisfied with his playing time". So I end up upsetting him anyway. The sad part is I'm not surprised because it's been the same for years. I also remain disappointed with additions to the tactics screen. The linking lines (which have been around for a while now) are meaningless to the point of being misleading. Every so often someone starts a thread along the lines of "I'm doing alright but the lines linking my players are red, what am I doing wrong, please help". Answer: "The lines are only red because the game's coding doesn't think your player is suited for a role even though he is actually playing well". The lines lack context (and always have) and are too focussed on the game's own attribute calculation rather than contextualising performance. People get misled by this. Linked to this is when I see pre match that my striker (for example) is "upset" because he's being played in an unfamiliar role - even though he's two seasons in to playing that role and has been performing really well throughout. Again, a lack of context. There are other issues of course, just as there are other good aspects to the game. To sum up I'd say it is a good game but it gets held back from being a great game by what feels like a lack of attention to detail and one or two bad areas. Edit - forgot to mention. FM23 is noticeably slower continuing day to day than previous iterations, even with the same leagues / number of players loaded. Pretty sure I saw SI say the game now processes faster (might be wrong there?) but that isn't my experience.

Just thought I’d chip in here and give this thread a bump. I’ve also been playing a 433 possession based system with my create-a-club Leyton Orient Red Bull London side in League 2. Broadly similar in set up, effective goal scoring + chances created, solid in defence and averaging 72% possession. One thing I noticed here is the use of double BPDs - not something I’d have thought about: one yes but two to me always seemed like overkill. I guess it gives both centre backs the same chance of launching something effective from deep, rather than just relying on one. Something to experiment further with, especially if I evolve the system into a 4231 or (ideally) a 3421/3412. Perhaps I should do a write up, if only I knew someone with a website to post it to…

In the test saves? By using the in game editor.

That should be pinned 😀. @ryandormer One thing to add - define “bad”. For example - a 3 star prospect may be of roughly equivalent potential as a current first team member. Further, your coaches are frequently wrong in their assessments. In test saves I’ve had coaches telling me that certain prospects are way down the pecking order of potential stars but in reality their actual hidden potential has been the highest. In other words, a “bad” intake may not actually be as bad as it may appear.

I agree, some things could be clearer in game. One thing that isn’t made clear is that the default tactics built into the game (I’m guessing you used one here) are not and have never been “plug and play”. They’re just a starting point for us to adapt as we see fit for the players at our disposal. Sometimes they’ll work without adjusting, others require tweaking and pretty much all of them may well require adjusting during the course of a match - as you found out to your cost 😔. So yeh I get the frustration but take it on the chin and use it as a learning point - if you use a tactic for the first time, keep a very close eye on what’s happening during the match and adjust things asap if it starts going pete tong 👍.

You didn’t lose so heavily because you selected that particular tactic - you lost because you selected a tactic which you hadn’t tried and tested yourself, and then carried on regardless until it was way too late (if at all). Sorry but that’s not the game’s fault. I understand you’re feeling a bit pissed at the game but in answer to your question “how to stop the FM23 supercharged opponents” : don’t make the same mistake again 👍. btw it’s always been perfectly viable to play with a “deep lying formation” - they can just be trickier to set up and maintain than other systems.

You already have aggressive fullbacks. This is why I mention you have a combination of factors (mentality, role, duty, player attributes, halfback etc) all of which combined may cause you issues by (potentially) making them overly aggressive. There’s no need to change anything unless you see problems - I’m just suggesting where to focus to see if there are issues and if there are what may be causing them and what you may be able to do about it 👍. If you do decide to make changes, make them one step at a time - if you change lots of things all at once that could cause other issues. Slow step changes, not all of it at the same time 👍.

imo the biggest challenge you face is the formation. For me, the narrow diamond is the most challenging formation to get right and the key is your flank players - I would happily spend my entire transfer budget to bring in the best wide players I can. That, in combination with some tactical settings is the primary focus. So - do your wingbacks have Determination, Pace, Stamina, Work Rate, Aggression and Natural Fitness to spare? You also use the attack duty Wingback: nothing wrong with that per se but when combined with a relatively aggressive mentality (which makes them even more forward thinking) and players who may not be up to the task you run the risk of leaving your flanks open to attack. Also check if your wingbacks have the gets forward often Trait. If they do then that combined with the chosen mentality and role/duty could be the root of issues. Your use of a halfback (a role I dislike anyway) in this particular formation may also be cause for concern - if your wingbacks get caught out of position (especially on the right where you also have a super aggressive Mez), is the HB covering sufficiently? A BWM may be a better option if not. And speaking of the Mez, do you really need to give him an attack duty? If you’re happy with his performance then no worries - just keep an eye on your right flank when transitioning back to defence. TL;DR - your combination of Mentality, wingback duty + players, Halfback and Mez Attack is where I’d start.

Fixed that for you . @Cleon Lots to go through mate 👍.

I never suggested FM is anything other than a game? To clarify, if you have a basic understating of football and couple that with some knowledge of the tactical strategies we can employ in game in combination with the players, it’s pretty much all we need. Yes each ME has its own vagaries but fundamentally the ME just outputs a football match based on our inputs. You even say yourself that you always stick to your favourite tactics in any FM. Trying to “learn” the ME is just an added complication in a game which is relatively simplistic. It’s us managers who tend to overcomplicate things. Spend a little time looking over some of the guides and articles in the Tactics forum. You’ll see there that many people have been successfully playing with all sorts of different modern day tactics (and some not so modern) for many iterations of FM. Some systems may indeed be easier to set up (eg., gegenpress) but pretty much any well thought out system which compliments the available players can be every bit as successful 👍.

A good write up and a different take on things. There will always be exceptions to the rule however imo playing out from the back with a low(er) tempo along with keeper roll outs against a gegenpress can cause issues and that style of play wouldn’t be for the faint of heart. I’m not sure those 2 screenshots above are the best examples of playing around the press as you describe, as the press looks a bit on the flimsy side. Hard to tell from still pictures. If you’ve had success doing it that way then good stuff and as said above there will always be an exception to the rule. Personally I’d go about things a different way but it’s interesting to see a different perspective.

Gegenpress is not and never has been any more “OP” than any other well designed tactic. It’s just easier to set up and more forgiving. That does of course lead to other questions such as should we be able to use an effective gegenpress in lower leagues for example. But then all some people want to do is load up their game and have some fun without it feeling (to them) like a chore, so from that perspective FM should be applauded for being so flexible in allowing us to play the game however we want. So of course the game is easy when we use certain strategies or exploits - and it also becomes easier as we become better and more experienced at the game - but that’s not the same thing as the game being easy. Spend a few minutes hanging around the Tactics forum and you’ll quickly see there are many many people who don’t find it easy.

I didn’t say using gegenpress is unrealistic. Using gegenpress is easy mode. You then layer on top other exploitative strategies to make the game even easier for yourself. And mixing your squad with older pros just to use them as Mentors is the unrealistic (and exploitative) part. It really doesn’t matter to me how you play the game. If you have fun doing it, great 😀. The issue is that you use easy mode tactics along with exploitative strategies and then tell us all that the game is too easy. You find it too easy because of how you play not because of how the game is coded. But if you do ever want more of a challenge, start a new save, don’t use any exploits, play realistically and create your own non-heavy pressing tactic with say a low or mid block. You’ll soon see that Mentality (and tactics in general) really do matter 👍.

Ahh yes I remember now, we’ve had this conversation before. You use a gegenpress tactic because apparently “tactics don’t matter” and you use lots of other strategies to make the game easier and unrealistic. That’s not the game being easy. That’s you making the game easy. Big difference. So, as you find the game is too easy, try developing your own tactical system instead of something you consider to be overpowered and/or start playing the game in a realistic manner - rather than using other exploits to give yourself an unfair advantage.

Good stuff and I like how you show using the F9 in different formations .

Rather than simply saying the game is too easy, what would be far more useful is saying in what way is it easy. That way not only people who find the game hard (of which there are many) may be able to get some hints and tips but the devs may be able understand better where to make adjustments. So when you say it’s too easy, how do you play the game? Do you (for example) create your own realistic tactics; use a preset tactic (which one); simply download the latest and greatest tactic; or something else (what) in between? Thus if the community (and devs) know you are using, lets say, the gegenpress default it might help others think they could give it a try and/or the devs to make adjustments. What else do you do to make it easy? How do you use the transfer market? How do you set up training? How do you play each match? How do you manage team morale or your players? Do you attend press conferences? The list goes on. I know this is getting off topic now so how about you start a new thread, or post in the feedback thread, about exactly what it is you do in game that makes it so easy for you 👍.

That’s the key phrase here. If the issue you see happens rarely then that’s just football. It can happen. But if you are seeing the issue “often” that tends to be indicative of issues with how your team defend. You need to watch for patterns of play - do you keep getting hit with balls over the top; fullbacks caught out of position; a lack of defensive cover from your midfield; a defensive line that is too high; and so on. I’d also take a look at your attacking play. Your shots on target to total shots ratio is pretty low. That indicates quantity over quality - using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. But your defensive play would be the first thing to address. It’s also worth noting that if the AI can do it to us we can do it to the AI. We have the exact same tools as the AI and the Match Engine doesn’t know which team is AI or human controlled. Anyway, if you want help consider starting a new thread in the Tactics forum and post your setup there 👍.

Was going to ask about the type of player you use for the Regista role, especially his defensive abilities given all those attack duties around him, but I know you have a series of individual articles planned so it’ll wait 👍. So key for me and where, imo, people tend to go wrong and become either too passive or too aggressive. You know like combinations and there’s another one. Good stuff as usual old chap.

And I already said to stop looking at ratings and watch what happens on the pitch. Ratings are not the best indicator of performance. If your defenders are losing attackers, your team is not stopping supply to them, your midfield provides insufficient defensive cover and/or your flanks are exposed, the best keeper in the world won’t save you. So what is happening on the pitch? Are there any patterns of play leaving you exposed? If your keeper is letting in so many goals you can’t just blame the keeper (or the game) - it’s a team effort. Because Positive is pretty aggressive. It tells your players to press more, set a higher defensive line and so on. It also (importantly) increases individual player mentality. If you then adjust relevant Team Instructions further you’ll be playing even more aggressively. So you have set a pretty high defensive line with your entire team doing a lot of pressing. Your back line will be stepping up even more to press because you’ve told them to. You are also using a fullback with an attack duty and made him even more forward thinking by upping his Mentality. How are you covering that big space between your defence and keeper? What is stopping balls over the top, through the middle, or crosses? You are also using one of the (imo) hardest formations to get right, at least defensively. All of that combined can cause you tactical issues, nothing to do with your keeper. And, when you watch the action on the pitch, how is that working out? Your fullback and carrilero need masses of at least work rate, stamina and determination to cover that flank for 90 mins each and every match, with your fullback also needing bags of pace in order to get back quickly to defend from advanced positions. Do they? You are asking your fullback to run the full length of the pitch constantly every match to provide attacking width but still expect him to cover defensively. Is he physically capable of doing that? Is the Carrilero really providing sufficient cover when your fullback is inevitably caught out of position? TL;DR how are you conceding goals? I’m not talking about the final header or shot from the attacker which beats your keeper, I mean what is the build up play to the goals? Are there any patterns of play? Nobody can stop all goals but if there are regular patterns in the build up phase, that becomes tactical and something you can usually do something about. Again, I’m not asking you to provide answers, merely give you some food for thought about the type of things to consider, watch and address.

Nobody?

I did comment on it, have another read. The best keeper in the world won’t save you if you keep letting opposition attackers get into good goal scoring positions and let their team mates supply them. If you or anyone else really believe the AI has some sort of hidden coding to give them an advantage, you’re nuts. Sure, we’ve all seen keepers pull off worldies but don’t let dodgy 3D graphics fool you into thinking it’s some sort of AI coding bias.