League winning tactic stopped working.

[trueblue9877]

So I am playing in the German 2 Bundesliga and am using this tactic, playing as one of the worst teams in the league I was able to win the league in the first season and was also 1st in the XG table, I was  promoted however the save got corrupted and I wasn't able to load the save so I started a new save with the same team.

The only problem is that the tactic has completely stopped working and I have now dropped to 15th place with significantly worse XG scores, how can I reverse this?

[Cloud9]

1 hour ago, trueblue9877 said:

So I am playing in the German 2 Bundesliga and am using this tactic, playing as one of the worst teams in the league I was able to win the league in the first season and was also 1st in the XG table, I was  promoted however the save got corrupted and I wasn't able to load the save so I started a new save with the same team.

The only problem is that the tactic has completely stopped working and I have now dropped to 15th place with significantly worse XG scores, how can I reverse this?

I'd say it's a fatigue problem based on everyone on the bench having 0 match fitness.

[trueblue9877]

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I'd say it's a fatigue problem based on everyone on the bench having 0 match fitness.

I meant that if you start a brand new save with the exact same team  and the same players not continuing this same save into a new season.

[Cloud9]

8 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

I meant that if you start a brand new save with the exact same team  and the same players not continuing this same save into a new season.

I would still evaluate that as an underlying issue.

However, I also wouldn't overlook sheer momentum in football. When you start off winning things go smoothly, it's when you start losing that a lot of management comes into play. 

• Tactical tweaks, morale, player's form, team dynamics all feature heavily in the teams form and require specific management when you're behind the 8 ball. 

Edited March 5 by Cloud9

[Karlo]

This is your 100th topic where you claim that your tactics have stopped working, when are you going to follow the well-intentioned advice given in your 100 previous topics?

[trueblue9877]

1 hour ago, Karlo said:

This is your 100th topic where you claim that your tactics have stopped working, when are you going to follow the well-intentioned advice given in your 100 previous topics?

And this is the 99th time that you have popped up to make a similar statement. How can you not comprehend that I have mentioned that it has happened at least 6 times that a tactic has worked for a season and then completely stopped working after said season and will still stop working even if you start a brand new save 

But people will say "Oh that's just FM" "Your team talks are demoralizing" "Your players aren't good enough"

It is literally that you can start one season with a team I was first in the league on XG table and then you start a new season with the same team and you now see the opposing team's XG rise by at least 0.50 per game 

Even if someone does give helpful advice the game will make it not work after a season or two this will happen consistently

Then there will be people like you just talking and not helping who don't know what they're talking about

It's not like FIFA where you can control the game you're dependent on the match engine and when the match engine decides that opposing teams will get 1.00 XG per game against you in one season then that suddenly jumps to 1.50XG the next year or even if you start the exact same season again in a new save that makes no sense.

Keep trying to make snide comments though champ I'm sure you're proud of yourself, fool.

Edited March 5 by trueblue9877
Spelling

[crusadertsar]

29 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

And this is the 99th time that you have popped up to make a similar statement. How can you not comprehend that I have mentioned that it has happened at least 6 times that a tactic has worked for a season and then completely stopped working after said season and will still stop working even if you start a brand new save 

But people will say "Oh that's just FM" "Your team talks are demoralizing" "Your players aren't good enough"

It is literally that you can start one season with a team I was first in the league on XG table and then you start a new season with the same team and you now see the opposing team's XG rise by at least 0.50 per game 

Even if someone does give helpful advice the game will make it not work after a season or two this will happen consistently

Then there will be people like you just talking and not helping who don't know what they're talking about

It's not like FIFA where you can control the game you're dependent on the match engine and when the match engine decides that opposing teams will get 1.00 XG per game against you in one season then that suddenly jumps to 1.50XG the next year or even if you start the exact same season again in a new save that makes no sense.

Keep trying to make snide comments though champ I'm sure you're proud of yourself, fool.

If you put it that way, maybe FM is just not for you. It's a hardcore sports management simulation game, not a Pokemon-like collection game like FIFA.

Edited March 5 by crusadertsar

[trueblue9877]

9 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

If you put it that way, maybe FM is just not for you. It's a hardcore sports management simulation game, not a Pokemon-like collection game like FIFA.

Then explain why I'm first place in the league with the worst team in the league and made the DFB Pokal beating several Bundesliga teams, just look at the screenshot, then explain why opponents are getting 0.50 XG more per game if you reload the save.

[KlaaZ]

19 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

Then explain why I'm first place in the league with the worst team in the league and made the DFB Pokal beating several Bundesliga teams, just look at the screenshot, then explain why opponents are getting 0.50 XG more per game if you reload the save.

Because, as stated, you started off with a few wins, everything rollercoasted from there. On the other hand, if you start with three losses and make the wrong choices in regards to team talks inbetween (like being too harsh, for example) the building may come crashing down around you.

No idea why that's so hard for you to accept.

 

PS: Use rolling saves.

[crusadertsar]

9 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

Because, as stated, you started off with a few wins, everything rollercoasted from there. On the other hand, if you start with three losses and make the wrong choices in regards to team talks inbetween (like being too harsh, for example) the building may come crashing down around you.

No idea why that's so hard for you to accept.

 

PS: Use rolling saves.

I don't think the OP understands that success in this game is so much more than just having a decent tactic. Tactic alone is not enough.

[Bahnzo]

When you start winning, the AI starts playing harder against you. They initially don't consider you a threat, so after winning, they will start to press you harder and man mark you. 

It's been my experience when that starts to happen, and you don't have the world class team you will have later, you have to start playing a more uptempo game, more direct and maybe try to play more route 1. 

it's also important to consider your roles and how they work with each other. I don't know that I see any problems with yours, but you definitely have to look and see if you have any holes in your team, as the AI seems they will start to exploit those now. 

For me, it was about swallowing my pride for a few seasons and playing a counter attack style, instead of the possession based one I want to play. Once I did that, I started to win again. 

Edited March 6 by Bahnzo

[trueblue9877]

11 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

When you start winning, the AI starts playing harder against you. They initially don't consider you a threat, so after winning, they will start to press you harder and man mark you. 

It's been my experience when that starts to happen, and you don't have the world class team you will have later, you have to start playing a more uptempo game, more direct and maybe try to play more route 1. 

it's also important to consider your roles and how they work with each other. I don't know that I see any problems with yours, but you definitely have to look and see if you have any holes in your team, as the AI seems they will start to exploit those now. 

For me, it was about swallowing my pride for a few seasons and playing a counter attack style, instead of the possession based one I want to play. Once I did that, I started to win again. 

I have tried that and got pretty much the same results.

[herne79]

On 05/03/2024 at 00:57, trueblue9877 said:

So I am playing in the German 2 Bundesliga and am using this tactic, playing as one of the worst teams in the league I was able to win the league in the first season and was also 1st in the XG table, I was  promoted however the save got corrupted and I wasn't able to load the save so I started a new save with the same team.

The only problem is that the tactic has completely stopped working and I have now dropped to 15th place with significantly worse XG scores, how can I reverse this?

The reason is that no 2 saves are the same.

In your case you have hit a downward spiral.  As mentioned above, in your first save you enjoyed great success so your players were full of Morale and your opponents had adjusted their play style accordingly.  In your second save, you started the season poorly so your players suffered Morale issues and your opponents played well against you.  As has also been mentioned a lot of your team also have fitness issues which is just compounding things further - you’re continuing to play out of form players with bad morale rather than rotating in options.

What have you actually done to stop the downward momentum?  Or have you just carried on regardless (which is folly)?  There may well be tactical things you can change (why run at defence if you have one of the weakest teams in the league for example) so take a step back and consider if your players can actually play in the style that you are asking them to.

Finally I’ll also mention your own expectations.  You massively overachieved in your original save.  Remember that you are one of the worst teams in your division so the fact that you are still in 15th shows you’re doing well.  It’s just that your expectations have now been set so high you now think you’re doing badly.  You’re not.

[Dr Naysay]

The match fitness is terrible, I wouldn't start one player that's not match fit never mind three and then of 10 subs you only have 2 match fit players on the bench, even the save you were top of the league a large portion of your players had zero to very low match fitness. To get to this stage of fitness you're not putting the effort in I am sorry to say, now add in a spiraling bad spell where i can only imagine you're putting as little effort in to to motivating your players and this is the result as has been said a few times. Player fitness and especially player morale are two layers on top of tactics that make your team a successful team. Either cut your squad(you don't need a 21 man squad for a 34 game season) or use your B team( if you have one) and create friendlies that get your whole squad match fit and ready to play, find ways to motivate your players to break out of this spell.

[jens_dewit]

100% agree on the match fitness thing. It's not that long ago I actually started paying attention to this and it's been having a massive impact.

BUT, and related to this, it's also important to not over-use your tired players. If you never rotate, your players will be too fatigued to have the desired impact. Since last year's version the 'risk assessment' view has been my standard view on the squad page. Players with 'heavy' are almost always taken out of the team in favour of players with 'light' or 'medium'. Works wonders.

Sure, this causes me to lose sometimes as my back-ups aren't up to standard yet, but it's helped me win 3 consecutive titles while being competitive in the CL. (I'm 14 years in, mind. C'mon Boomkes!)

[trueblue9877]

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

The reason is that no 2 saves are the same.

In your case you have hit a downward spiral.  As mentioned above, in your first save you enjoyed great success so your players were full of Morale and your opponents had adjusted their play style accordingly.  In your second save, you started the season poorly so your players suffered Morale issues and your opponents played well against you.  As has also been mentioned a lot of your team also have fitness issues which is just compounding things further - you’re continuing to play out of form players with bad morale rather than rotating in options.

What have you actually done to stop the downward momentum?  Or have you just carried on regardless (which is folly)?  There may well be tactical things you can change (why run at defence if you have one of the weakest teams in the league for example) so take a step back and consider if your players can actually play in the style that you are asking them to.

Finally I’ll also mention your own expectations.  You massively overachieved in your original save.  Remember that you are one of the worst teams in your division so the fact that you are still in 15th shows you’re doing well.  It’s just that your expectations have now been set so high you now think you’re doing badly.  You’re not.

That's not what is happening though, even if you start the season strongly at the end of January the opposition team will experience a sharp rise in XG making it not possible to win anymore, every save is not the same but I am experiencing the same thing over and over again no matter what you change the opposing team will be getting 1.5 XG consistently.

[trueblue9877]

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

The reason is that no 2 saves are the same.

In your case you have hit a downward spiral.  As mentioned above, in your first save you enjoyed great success so your players were full of Morale and your opponents had adjusted their play style accordingly.  In your second save, you started the season poorly so your players suffered Morale issues and your opponents played well against you.  As has also been mentioned a lot of your team also have fitness issues which is just compounding things further - you’re continuing to play out of form players with bad morale rather than rotating in options.

What have you actually done to stop the downward momentum?  Or have you just carried on regardless (which is folly)?  There may well be tactical things you can change (why run at defence if you have one of the weakest teams in the league for example) so take a step back and consider if your players can actually play in the style that you are asking them to.

Finally I’ll also mention your own expectations.  You massively overachieved in your original save.  Remember that you are one of the worst teams in your division so the fact that you are still in 15th shows you’re doing well.  It’s just that your expectations have now been set so high you now think you’re doing badly.  You’re not.

Like when you notice a collapse in January and end up finishing 17th for 4 seasons in a row that is suspicious.

[Cloud9]

20 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

That's not what is happening though, even if you start the season strongly at the end of January the opposition team will experience a sharp rise in XG making it not possible to win anymore, every save is not the same but I am experiencing the same thing over and over again no matter what you change the opposing team will be getting 1.5 XG consistently.

A collapse of form in January is textbook poor squad rotation catching up with you. It's also worth looking at how you structure your pre-season.

I had struggled with a mid season slump before doing a deep dive into pre season schedules and now work the lads as hard as possible before the season starts. If you put them through a grueling preseason, followed by learning to rotate the squad properly (put Injury Risk, Fatigue, Match Load into your squad selection) you'll see your squad capable of pushing on after Christmas. 

This is difficult, as the game does little to indicate that you need to push your players like this in pre-season but it's essential to a successful campaign. The lack of rotation in your squad is something you can see, and will need to address ASAP. Establishing a starting 11 is important, but if you don't rotate those players throughout a season you will hamper their development and ultimately run them into the ground. I avoid starting players who are in the "red," as in Injury Risk (which is reflected of how medical staff will advise managers IRL).

Edited March 6 by Cloud9

[herne79]

45 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

That's not what is happening though, even if you start the season strongly at the end of January the opposition team will experience a sharp rise in XG making it not possible to win anymore, every save is not the same but I am experiencing the same thing over and over again no matter what you change the opposing team will be getting 1.5 XG consistently.

Well that’s just nonsense isn’t it.  You won the league in your first save in your first season, so how is that “making it not possible to win anymore”.  Come on.

So yes, it is what is happening.  Save 1 you had a great start and it carried on from there.  Save 2 you had a poor start and it went downhill.  You then did nothing to stop that slide except perhaps make a futile attempt to change the tactic into a system which you didn’t know would actually be effective.  You then compounded that by playing low morale players without rotating in fresh faces.  It’s a pure recipe for disaster.

And, as said, don’t forget your own expectations.  You’re not doing badly, but your previous save has given you a false sense of achievement.

 

39 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

Like when you notice a collapse in January and end up finishing 17th for 4 seasons in a row that is suspicious.

Ah well, just give up then eh?  Clearly the game’s out to get you .

You need to get out of this mindset.  There is nothing “suspicious” going on.  If you are “experiencing the same thing over and over again” or you finish 17th for 4 seasons in a row, you have got a lot of room for improvement.  People above (not just me) are explaining to you what is happening.  Notice how nobody is saying it’s because of the game being suspicious.

The game doesn’t give the best feedback for sure, but there is nothing in the coding which makes you lose.  The match engine doesn’t even know who the human player is and who the AI manager is.

So, if you want tactical advice of how to get one of the worst teams promoted in the first season you will struggle to get that.  Being able to do that tends to involve an awful lot of micromanagement of your squad (not just tactically), with lots of tactical adjustments and tweaks during matches.  In all honesty, if you won the league in your first save without micromanaging the club using the tactic in the OP, you got extremely lucky.  Second save your luck ran out (although just to repeat again, you’re not doing badly).

People here can (and do) provide great insight and help but be reasonable in your expectations both in game and with this forum.  Nobody is going to tell you in a post or two how to overachieve to the extent you want.

[Bahnzo]

8 hours ago, trueblue9877 said:

I have tried that and got pretty much the same results.

You HAVE to fix your fitness. If what you are showing is how fit your players are going into a match, that's the #1 problem. And it's easy to tell, because none of your other players are in match shape, which shows us you aren't rotating. 

Until you realize this, there's nothing tactically which will solve your problem.

[trueblue9877]

1 hour ago, Bahnzo said:

You HAVE to fix your fitness. If what you are showing is how fit your players are going into a match, that's the #1 problem. And it's easy to tell, because none of your other players are in match shape, which shows us you aren't rotating. 

Until you realize this, there's nothing tactically which will solve your problem.

So I have made some changes and have been seeing improved results with this style of play. So to fix the fitness what would you suggest?

[Bahnzo]

17 minutes ago, trueblue9877 said:

So I have made some changes and have been seeing improved results with this style of play. So to fix the fitness what would you suggest?

You just have to make sure you are rotating your squad so they aren't tired. I *never* start a player if his CON heart isn't green and full. Unless I don't have any other option at that position of course. 

If you do this, I suspect your team will start to get back on course and winning again. If not, then you can start looking elsewhere and try to figure out what's happening. 

Edited March 6 by Bahnzo

[crusadertsar]

I'm not sure I understand the fitness issues people are talking about. Sure some of his players lost fitness from playing in the recent match but that's normal. And there are still 3 days until next match. They can all be rested. The bigger problem is that he is not using his subs at all. You really have to rotate your team or otherwise you are done for when hit with injuries. I understand though in lower league sometimes you don't feel like using anything other than your 1st team choices because your rotation choices are so bad. I played saves where I mostly used my 1st team in very low league. It's very tricky though and requires a lot of micromanagement in resting players between matches. And you have to have some luck in avoiding injuries. But when you have very little team depth in quality, it could make a difference in winning more matches. But once you advance into higher leagues this becomes impossible due to match schedule congestion.

 

Edited March 7 by crusadertsar

[trueblue9877]

7 hours ago, Bahnzo said:

You just have to make sure you are rotating your squad so they aren't tired. I *never* start a player if his CON heart isn't green and full. Unless I don't have any other option at that position of course. 

If you do this, I suspect your team will start to get back on course and winning again. If not, then you can start looking elsewhere and try to figure out what's happening. 

So I have found quite a bit more consistency using this tactic most recently uploaded, what do you think of this?  

[bosque]

Are you at least watching the games or just rushing trough seasons?