Emulating Xabi Alonso's Bayer Leverkusen

[Sébastien Chabal]

Go ahead

[Sébastien ChabaI]

 

 

i've translated that without a strenuous grip into:

 

playing 2dms wasn't looking correct, so i fixed it with bwmd above the xhaka role, with team instruction runs with ball and maybe some dribble traits he/she will still replicate that palacios tackle/carry role like irl

i tried to recreate boniface positioning by playing AF in the st(cr) position but he was drifting waaay too wide and was become this weird auxillary winger at times which was quite ugly to watch so i put it back in the centre and due to match engine limitations it works better there, alas

 

 

 

 

pass into space + run with ball i now use often

 

AMs move into channels + gets forward a la florian

 

edit:

my iteration is mirrored because i like spinazzola for the frimpong role

Edited October 17, 2023 by Sébastien ChabaI

[Sébastien ChabaI]

 

so the first real issue i can see is we don't pass enough so need to think of a fix for this, do suggest the solution but im sure ill find it

xabi's leverkusen have the highest passes into final third - same as us at roma

 

 

could be interesting to experiment with 4atb variant with a wcb in the 2

 

anyway not now

 

its lovely playing vs 433 with the two 10s either side of the dm...delicious

 

we can see even playing the bwmd and regista basically on top of one another they actually spread nice in posession. issue: the WBs is always too high up so that needs to be looked into, maybe wbs is not ideal for the grimaldo position, iwbs possibly but grimaldo goes wide and with sits narrow built in + faily narrow ti im not convinced - maybe wb(d) would still be useful with counter ti.. alternatively mentality could be dropped to balanced i suppose or even playing him in the rb slot?

another issue is starting position of striker both in and out posession in terms of actually replicating boniface movement i want him closer to the 10 on the right side, maybe a mark tighter instruction or position change

Edited October 17, 2023 by Sébastien ChabaI

[TheMartello]

5 hours ago, Sébastien ChabaI said:

 

 

i've translated that without a strenuous grip into:

 

playing 2dms wasn't looking correct, so i fixed it with bwmd above the xhaka role, with team instruction runs with ball and maybe some dribble traits he/she will still replicate that palacios tackle/carry role like irl

i tried to recreate boniface positioning by playing AF in the st(cr) position but he was drifting waaay too wide and was become this weird auxillary winger at times which was quite ugly to watch so i put it back in the centre and due to match engine limitations it works better there, alas

 

 

 

 

pass into space + run with ball i now use often

 

AMs move into channels + gets forward a la florian

 

edit:

my iteration is mirrored because i like spinazzola for the frimpong role

Did you use any more player instructions than the one you mentioned for the AMs?

[Sébastien ChabaI]

9 hours ago, TheMartello said:

Did you use any more player instructions than the one you mentioned for the AMs?

WM(A) has drib more cross byline and stay wider ss has close down more

sometimes i add stay wide to wb(s)

wcb(a) and wcb(d) both have close down more hold position and the attacking cb has tries risks

skd has tackle harder

the rest of instructions are default

 

dropped mentality added run at defence for every game now and its looking good

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Sébastien ChabaI

[steesh86]

Interesting post and tactic. @Sébastien Chabal what training schedule do you use to ensure the squad can play with the intensity and have the needed strengths of Alonso's Leverkusen? I have tried to do some research on what a general real-life Alonso weekly training regime would look like for Leverkusen and his coaching staff, but there's not much info out there. 

[04texag]

Just messing around for fun, and because I had already started a messed a little bit with a Bayer Leverkusen save, I decided to throw a tactic together. It's not fully tweaked, but in the first two games  messing around it looks pretty good.

The above was based on watching this  

 

So, I tried with both players centrally like this.....

But I didn't like the positioning and movements of Hofmann as much. You can try this and tell him to stay wider, but he will attack as a priority over setting up Boniface.

 

So, with Frimpong on as WB-AT, he will push very wide. Wirtz is setup to roam and stay narrow. He will drift centrally quite well. Once those two movements have taken place, this really does play out much more like a 4231 in attack.

The two DM's will stay beside each other early, and then definitely get vertically aligned at times in build up, very much like shown in the video.

It's pretty fun to watch. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by 04texag

[04texag]

Just watched highlights from their Europa League game today. Wirtz dominated with a goal and three assists. I'm not sure if Frimpong is hurt and so they ran a different shape bc of that or what. I don't watch them regularly. But they were in a much more traditional 4231 and grimaldo was allowed to play much more expansively on the left. 

[Lira95]

En 26/10/2023 a las 18:05, 04texag dijo:

Just messing around for fun, and because I had already started a messed a little bit with a Bayer Leverkusen save, I decided to throw a tactic together. It's not fully tweaked, but in the first two games  messing around it looks pretty good.

The above was based on watching this  

 

So, I tried with both players centrally like this.....

But I didn't like the positioning and movements of Hofmann as much. You can try this and tell him to stay wider, but he will attack as a priority over setting up Boniface.

 

So, with Frimpong on as WB-AT, he will push very wide. Wirtz is setup to roam and stay narrow. He will drift centrally quite well. Once those two movements have taken place, this really does play out much more like a 4231 in attack.

The two DM's will stay beside each other early, and then definitely get vertically aligned at times in build up, very much like shown in the video.

It's pretty fun to watch. 

Nice one, but you have to switch Hoffman with Wirtz

[Oppiiz]

@Cleon Did put up a great replica on his twitter page. Been trying it out a bit and it play really well! Writz is dominating playing in the AP position.

[Sébastien ChabaI]

6 hours ago, Oppiiz said:

@Cleon Did put up a great replica on his twitter page. Been trying it out a bit and it play really well! Writz is dominating playing in the AP position.

hmm, can you share it? i had a look at the twitter but all i can see is this:

which isn't even close to xabis leverkusen

[sejo]

41 minuti fa, Sébastien ChabaI ha scritto:

hmm, can you share it? i had a look at the twitter but all i can see is this:

which isn't even close to xabis leverkusen

Where are TI?
Thanks

[Oppiiz]

1 hour ago, Sébastien ChabaI said:

hmm, can you share it? i had a look at the twitter but all i can see is this:

which isn't even close to xabis leverkusen

Here you go:

[CrosbyS87]

As  a season ticket holder who is really enjoying this season so far, i tried to replicate Xabi Alonsos tactic as close as it is possible in FM. You can see my attempt in the picture above.

Boniface and Schick are Complete Forwards in my opinion, not AFs. Wirtz (sit narrower and roam from position) is an AP on the left flank who comes deep to get the ball and is mainly involved in our buildup. Same for Hofmann (only sits narrower) on the other side of the pitch, but his role in real life is more like an inverted winger on support who sits narrower, when you want to replicate his role in FM.. Xhaka and Palacios are definitely 6's not 8's. Xhaka is a dlp, I'm not sure about Palacios. I would say he is a bmw who is involved in build up and attack with late runs. In my tactic I use him as a SV with more pressing and tackle harder PIs.

Frimpong is more of an attacking winger in real life, while Grimaldo is more of a playmaker on the left side who often cuts in the middle of the pitch, so i decided to give him the CWB support role.

Tapsoba is a BPD with dribble more PI, Tah is a CD on cover and Kossounou a WCB on support with less crosses PI, who often joins our attacks on the right flank.

Bayer is a team which has a mixed playstyle of Gegenpress, Possession and Counter Attacking. I'm not sure if I should add counter, too, because we are using work ball into the box to add more passes and reduce the crosses. Our defensive Line is always high, not a  standard line. I would say its a much higher defensive line irl, but its too risky in FM. 

This is my attempt so far. Work in progress ^^

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by CrosbyS87

[BanOly]

12 hours ago, CrosbyS87 said:

As  a season ticket holder who is really enjoying this season so far, i tried to replicate Xabi Alonsos tactic as close as it is possible in FM. You can see my attempt in the picture above.

Boniface and Schick are Complete Forwards in my opinion, not AFs. Wirtz (sit narrower and roam from position) is an AP on the left flank who comes deep to get the ball and is mainly involved in our buildup. Same for Hofmann (only sits narrower) on the other side of the pitch, but his role in real life is more like an inverted winger on support who sits narrower, when you want to replicate his role in FM.. Xhaka and Palacios are definitely 6's not 8's. Xhaka is a dlp, I'm not sure about Palacios. I would say he is a bmw who is involved in build up and attack with late runs. In my tactic I use him as a SV with more pressing and tackle harder PIs.

Frimpong is more of an attacking winger in real life, while Grimaldo is more of a playmaker on the left side who often cuts in the middle of the pitch, so i decided to give him the CWB support role.

Tapsoba is a BPD with dribble more PI, Tah is a CD on cover and Kossounou a WCB on support with less crosses PI, who often joins our attacks on the right flank.

Bayer is a team which has a mixed playstyle of Gegenpress, Possession and Counter Attacking. I'm not sure if I should add counter, too, because we are using work ball into the box to add more passes and reduce the crosses. Our defensive Line is always high, not a  standard line. I would say its a much higher defensive line irl, but its too risky in FM. 

This is my attempt so far. Work in progress ^^

 

Pretty much what I've arrived at. RDF did a tactical analysis a short while ago for FM23 that covers how we play extremely well, but got a few things wrong. You're spot on that Boniface/Schick play as a CF not AF, and Tah covers the defence instead of sitting level.

The three biggest challenges to replicate on FM for sure are Grimaldo, Palacios and Hofmann.

Grimaldo is a LOT more defensive than Frimpong, which makes me think he's not a CWB. Wing-back (Support) works very well in terms of overall positioning, but inrl he often winds up central during attacks to get off long shots, which doesn't happen with that role. So I tried him on IWB (Attack) but that trade-off means his positioning isn't quite right, because now he sits too centrally when we're out of possession too.

Palacios is, as you've said, the chief ball-winner of our midfield, who often racks up many tackles, interceptions and recoveries per match over Xhaka. However he is also very creative, and has notched up a lot of assists. If only there were a Central Midfielder/Carrilero role for the DM position... I think SV is the closest we can get, but he doesn't perform well for me in that role.

Finally, as you've covered, Wirtz is definitely a CAM and the primary creative outlet for the team but Hofmann operates halfway between CAM and RW and he doesn't really have a role that replicates what he does on FM. I've been playing them both as CAMs but while this works for Wirtz it isn't getting the best results out of Hofmann.

Edited October 29, 2023 by BanOly

[Sébastien ChabaI]

Friends, foes, and fragile minds - i return with a gift of a tactical masterclass in the emulation sector, this is the peak of tactical replication on the sigames forum

This is xabi's leverkusen vs freiberg which occurred on sunday the 29th of october:

disregard haste, within the limitations of the match engine (fm24) we have had to forgo certain TI's which unfortunately now negate around 10% possession in order to create a tactic that yields results

i've been reading the posts here, and what i think you all lack is a creative bone, dont limit yourselves to these 'roles' that are on fm, broaden your mind, yes perhaps in real life boniface is a true cf, except he's not, and he's not an advanced forward either, he's boniface and xabi alonso has sliders irl and he can use to tell him what to do in and out of posession, rather than saying today big bon you are going to play CFa, capisce? with the lack of options and (bring back sliders in some manner) by giving us colorful position dummies you have all become attached to roles where infact you need to approach the game differently from this day onwards3

we currently play the best football on the planet, like leverkusen

with the extreme limitations of the match engine, this is the closest you will get:

wirtz = f9, moves into channels. now go and watch a leverkusen game, frimpong defends way higher than wba/cwba, so dw is ideal with gets further forward and crosse from byline, some games he cuts inside, some games he runs wide with it, again, we are limited to only selecting one so i don't select one, because i dont want these limits

for the LWB, stay wider take more risks dribble more, now you may say, but grimaldo moves inside to take long shots a lot of the game, no he doesn't he simply does not, he takes long shots from positions he finds himself in during set pieces, and playing the lwb as wba instead of iwba you will still see the boy running inside as long as you once again don't limit the player to running wide with the ball!

 

 

free your minds from self imposed shackles

savio is the wirtz position, he doesn't have comes deep to get ball etc  and look where he often finds himself with the ball ala wirtz

look at the two midfielders deciding a 1-1 pattern ala xhaka palacios

shadow striker on fm is not shadow striker irl, do not be fooled by the names given to you

out of posession we look like a back 4 at times, and a back 3 at other times, ala leverkusen

this is it, capisce

 

edit: nevermind i give up, impossible atm lets see what me is like on release!

Edited October 30, 2023 by Sébastien ChabaI

[newsuzanoebok]

Well, i think ive got the maximum possible (at least with my little knowledge on FM) with the current ME
Xabis Leverkusen got 60% of possession on avarage, the 2 MCs make 90 passes atempt on avarage, and you guys already posted some content about the average possitions, style of play and everything else



The main issue for me is the WBR positioning, if i use defensive winger, winger or wide midfielder, i think he doesnt defend well, and stay FAR TOO much on the attack all the time, so i use CWB, yes he stay way too much on the wide area and on Leverkusen the CWB (Frimpong) get more close to the rest of the team (i even use the narrowest possible shape, but it doesnt resolve)

The 2 mcs positions i liked quite well, they really stay close on the middle organizing the team the same as the leverkusen side



cant get them to 90 passes, but always get one with 80 or more, and the other with something close to 70



my possession is always between 60/65 or something like this



this is the final tactic

[BanOly]

@Sébastien ChabaI  taking your satirical condescension in jest, the first impression I get from your tactic is that you actually have quite a good grasp on how we play in real-life (with some exceptions), but don't quite understand how tactics work on Football Manager.

The formation and positioning of the players represents where they sit when the team is out of possession, whereas your formation is an (almost) perfect representation of how our players move in possession. Take Wirtz for example; he does not sit next to Boniface out of possession, he sits alongside Hofmann and acts as our creative outlet. If he ends up next to Boniface, it is only when we are in possession, and more often than not because he has dribbled with the ball into that position himself.

Similarly, you seem to have your wires crossed with Kossounou, or more likely the new Inverted Right-back role. This role can be best represented with Ben White as an example; he defends from RB out of possession but when in possession will move inside to cover the forward runs of any CBs, or just budge up next to them to make a back three when Zinchenko joins the midfield. Odi does the opposite of this - he sits centrally, and then moves out to cover Frimpong's attacking runs. He will also occasionally move further up the field to support the attack - something that I very much doubt you will see happening with your Inverted Full-back.

Finally, you are correct in saying that Frimpong does indeed defend slightly higher up the pitch than Grimaldo, but again as a lot of us have stated, this is due in part to Grimaldo defending quite deep in reality rather than Frimpong starting out on the right wing. CWB is for sure the most accurate way to replicate what he does, and at least from my experience, has resulted in exceptional returns for me, being my best performer and providing both goals and assists.

It's funny that you started your post by mentioning the Freiburg game and then said this...

21 hours ago, Sébastien ChabaI said:

now you may say, but grimaldo moves inside to take long shots a lot of the game, no he doesn't he simply does not, he takes long shots from positions he finds himself in during set pieces

I invite you to go back and watch Grimaldo's movement off the ball for our first goal.

As you can see, he starts off wide but when Wirtz turns the defender and starts making his run on goal, we will see him begin to move centrally in order to present a goalscoring threat.

So many times this season this happens, and often the ball is squared across to him, but in this instance Wirtz goes for goal and is rewarded. That's just one fresh example that came to mind instantly for me, as it was only on the weekend, but I'm sure if you watch more of our football, you will notice it happening a lot more.

Edited October 30, 2023 by BanOly

[bosque]

I agree with most of the explanations made by @BanOly.

Leverkusen is my FM team and I was watching them a lot lately. But I feel one thing wasn't mentioned about the double pivot movement.

I think the pivot closer to Frimpong is the holding one and the one besides Grimaldo is a bit more mobile. Palacios and Xhaka rotate a lot but when they are in the RCDM position, they hold and when they are in the LCDM they are more mobile and a bit wider to prevent Grimaldo being isolated.

Edited October 31, 2023 by bosque

[BanOly]

1 hour ago, bosque said:

I think the pivot closer to Frimpong is the holding one and the one besides Grimaldo is a bit more mobile. Palacios and Xhaka rotate a lot but when they are in the RCDM position, they hold and when they are in the LCDM they are more mobile and a bit wider to prevent Grimaldo being isolated.

Palacios and Xhaka actually don't rotate starting positions at all, but this is a very understandable misconception.

Xhaka is exactly what you think of when you think of a Deep-Lying Playmaker. He sits in the centre of midfield and sprays progressive passes left, right and centre, whilst occasionally but very rarely supporting the attack. He certainly doesn't support them as much as Palacios... but interestingly, he doesn't rack up anywhere close to the same defensive contribution numbers as Palacios, either! Not because he's not as good, but simply because defending isn't his primary objective.

Here's where your misconception becomes very understandable. While Xhaka remains in the centre of midfield, what you will often see happen during a game while Leverkusen are out of possession, is Palacios will move around Xhaka, acting as the primary ball-winning midfielder of the two, popping up to the right of him but also often to the left as well. When we are in possession, he will support the attacks more than Xhaka, but still not "support" in the sense that he enters the box. Once again, this can be seen in the example I gave above. Notice how Xhaka is nowhere to be seen, but Palacios is lurking safely just outside the box, ready to regroup to a more defensive position as soon as we lose the ball.

The issue in FM is that, as Palacios' primary objective is to contribute defensively and win the ball, he should be a role such as Ball-winning Midfielder that makes that clear in the game, but the issue then is that the BWM role on FM doesn't often result in these forward runs being made, nor are you likely to see him moving around Xhaka in the same way that we often see inrl.

[Jyuan83]

On 31/10/2023 at 06:07, BanOly said:

@Sébastien ChabaI  taking your satirical condescension in jest, the first impression I get from your tactic is that you actually have quite a good grasp on how we play in real-life (with some exceptions), but don't quite understand how tactics work on Football Manager.

The formation and positioning of the players represents where they sit when the team is out of possession, whereas your formation is an (almost) perfect representation of how our players move in possession. Take Wirtz for example; he does not sit next to Boniface out of possession, he sits alongside Hofmann and acts as our creative outlet. If he ends up next to Boniface, it is only when we are in possession, and more often than not because he has dribbled with the ball into that position himself.

Similarly, you seem to have your wires crossed with Kossounou, or more likely the new Inverted Right-back role. This role can be best represented with Ben White as an example; he defends from RB out of possession but when in possession will move inside to cover the forward runs of any CBs, or just budge up next to them to make a back three when Zinchenko joins the midfield. Odi does the opposite of this - he sits centrally, and then moves out to cover Frimpong's attacking runs. He will also occasionally move further up the field to support the attack - something that I very much doubt you will see happening with your Inverted Full-back.

Finally, you are correct in saying that Frimpong does indeed defend slightly higher up the pitch than Grimaldo, but again as a lot of us have stated, this is due in part to Grimaldo defending quite deep in reality rather than Frimpong starting out on the right wing. CWB is for sure the most accurate way to replicate what he does, and at least from my experience, has resulted in exceptional returns for me, being my best performer and providing both goals and assists.

It's funny that you started your post by mentioning the Freiburg game and then said this...

I invite you to go back and watch Grimaldo's movement off the ball for our first goal.

As you can see, he starts off wide but when Wirtz turns the defender and starts making his run on goal, we will see him begin to move centrally in order to present a goalscoring threat.

So many times this season this happens, and often the ball is squared across to him, but in this instance Wirtz goes for goal and is rewarded. That's just one fresh example that came to mind instantly for me, as it was only on the weekend, but I'm sure if you watch more of our football, you will notice it happening a lot more.

Love watching leverkusen play and even more interested in seeing how this thread evolves over this recreation. Especially love how cabi has used his wingbacks this season, effectively using them as goalscoring wide forwards. Frimpong with 4 goals and 5 assists and grimaldo with 5 goals and 3 assists. They are well on their way to scoring double figures easily this season. I particularly noticed how grimaldo kept moving centrally to attack the box like a striker coming in from deep against Qarabag. He could have scored a hattrick easily. Frimpong seems to stay wide before moving in between the fullback and centre to latch onto balls to score.I would say iwb attack for grimaldo and WM attack with roam if i have to guess their roles.

[Powello]

Firstly, apologies for the terrible pictures, my laptop is soslow and can't run both FM and a browser at the same time so had to use my phone for pics

Been dying to recreate Leverkusens style on FM and have spent the last few days working on t as well as watching multiple highlights and tactical analysis videos on youtube. Though I am doing a Southend challenge which makes it harder. 

I started off with the 3-4-2-1 shape and it was alright but I couldn't get the attacking right and there were too many 1-0 wins. Leverkusen score goals alongside the great football so 1-0's all the time just insn't great. Now this could just be because of the level of team we are or tactical, I think it's both. For the current season I switched it up a bit after watching a TIFO video and came up with the 2 versions below

 

 

 

 

 

 

The one on the right I was mainly using for away games at first, though I ended up just using that most of the time later on in the season the season.Still not happy with either, as you can see in the league below, defensively it has been amazing but the attack has suffered a little and we aren't scoring enough. Again I am not sure if this is tactical or just the level of the players.

I do change a few settings depending on opponents occasionally but nothing major

It;s not an exact replica of course with being Southend, but I have tried to get it as close as I can and still win games, so I have had to sacrifice a few roles/settings. Next season in league 1 I will be able to get some better players, hopefully can get closer and score way more goals

Edited November 3, 2023 by Powello

[BanOly]

They say a picture paints a thousand words... well, you can take a lot from these today.

Not only did we see more of Grimaldo cutting inside from the left wing in the build-up, but we saw Palacios moving outside to present a backward passing option and, more importantly, to cover the space left behind in case Hoffenheim broke away.

His movement off the ball, the way that he covers both sides of the pitch, covers both wing-backs when they push up, I really don't think there's a role that fully encapsulates this in the game. It would be some kind of horizontal Box-to-box Midfielder, a side-to-side one if you will 

In the distance, we can also see Hofmann move inside to a more narrow position, giving Frimpong lots of space on the right. A similar situation happens later which results in him taking up this position:

Grimaldo's movement off the ball resulted in the winning goal here, but what I find far more interesting about this movement is that Palacios has come to cover the right-hand side of the pitch, after Frimpong made a run into the box and now remains next to the goalkeeper. You can also see that Palacios moving to cover Frimpong instead hasn't stopped Grimaldo from continuing to cut inside.

[Huguitch]

Em 30/10/2023 em 01:01, Sébastien ChabaI disse:

Friends, foes, and fragile minds - i return with a gift of a tactical masterclass in the emulation sector, this is the peak of tactical replication on the sigames forum

This is xabi's leverkusen vs freiberg which occurred on sunday the 29th of october:

disregard haste, within the limitations of the match engine (fm24) we have had to forgo certain TI's which unfortunately now negate around 10% possession in order to create a tactic that yields results

i've been reading the posts here, and what i think you all lack is a creative bone, dont limit yourselves to these 'roles' that are on fm, broaden your mind, yes perhaps in real life boniface is a true cf, except he's not, and he's not an advanced forward either, he's boniface and xabi alonso has sliders irl and he can use to tell him what to do in and out of posession, rather than saying today big bon you are going to play CFa, capisce? with the lack of options and (bring back sliders in some manner) by giving us colorful position dummies you have all become attached to roles where infact you need to approach the game differently from this day onwards3

we currently play the best football on the planet, like leverkusen

 

with the extreme limitations of the match engine, this is the closest you will get:

wirtz = f9, moves into channels. now go and watch a leverkusen game, frimpong defends way higher than wba/cwba, so dw is ideal with gets further forward and crosse from byline, some games he cuts inside, some games he runs wide with it, again, we are limited to only selecting one so i don't select one, because i dont want these limits

for the LWB, stay wider take more risks dribble more, now you may say, but grimaldo moves inside to take long shots a lot of the game, no he doesn't he simply does not, he takes long shots from positions he finds himself in during set pieces, and playing the lwb as wba instead of iwba you will still see the boy running inside as long as you once again don't limit the player to running wide with the ball!

 

 

free your minds from self imposed shackles

savio is the wirtz position, he doesn't have comes deep to get ball etc  and look where he often finds himself with the ball ala wirtz

look at the two midfielders deciding a 1-1 pattern ala xhaka palacios

shadow striker on fm is not shadow striker irl, do not be fooled by the names given to you

out of posession we look like a back 4 at times, and a back 3 at other times, ala leverkusen

this is it, capisce

 

edit: nevermind i give up, impossible atm lets see what me is like on release!

Looks interesting, can you share the tactic or players instructions pls?

[arthurbf10]

For those running the 5-2-2-1, note that, because of the new positional play features, the SV will push the AMCR to the middle of the pitch making a trident behind the striker

Spoiler

#32 is the AMCR and #38 is the SV

I tried really hard to come up with a good 5-2-3 but nothing would work :[ 

[BanOly]

20 hours ago, arthurbf10 said:

For those running the 5-2-2-1, note that, because of the new positional play features, the SV will push the AMCR to the middle of the pitch making a trident behind the striker

  Hide contents

#32 is the AMCR and #38 is the SV

I tried really hard to come up with a good 5-2-3 but nothing would work :[ 

Yeah, I'm starting to think for this reason that BWM is better for Pala.

Needs to be a Carillero role for DM imo

[SmoothKiminal]

On 10/11/2023 at 18:51, BanOly said:

Yeah, I'm starting to think for this reason that BWM is better for Pala.

Needs to be a Carillero role for DM imo

Have you tinkered anymore with this? Trying to do it myself and really interested in what you ended up with.

[kord14]

On 30/10/2023 at 20:27, newsuzanoebok said:

Well, i think ive got the maximum possible (at least with my little knowledge on FM) with the current ME
Xabis Leverkusen got 60% of possession on avarage, the 2 MCs make 90 passes atempt on avarage, and you guys already posted some content about the average possitions, style of play and everything else



The main issue for me is the WBR positioning, if i use defensive winger, winger or wide midfielder, i think he doesnt defend well, and stay FAR TOO much on the attack all the time, so i use CWB, yes he stay way too much on the wide area and on Leverkusen the CWB (Frimpong) get more close to the rest of the team (i even use the narrowest possible shape, but it doesnt resolve)

The 2 mcs positions i liked quite well, they really stay close on the middle organizing the team the same as the leverkusen side



cant get them to 90 passes, but always get one with 80 or more, and the other with something close to 70



my possession is always between 60/65 or something like this



this is the final tactic

nice recreation does it have any PIs??

[newsuzanoebok]

2 horas atrás, kord14 disse:

nice recreation does it have any PIs??

no man, i never use PIs

Edited November 24, 2023 by newsuzanoebok

[BanOly]

On 22/11/2023 at 22:28, SmoothKiminal said:

Have you tinkered anymore with this? Trying to do it myself and really interested in what you ended up with.

I've been running BWM (Su) since - while it isn't the most creative role, in fairness Pala doesn't often attempt the same kind of high-risk passes that Xhaka does, so it still results in fairly realistic behaviour. It does everything except for cover the flanks, but Pala doesn't tend to move that  far over anyway, just far enough to form a diamond shape with the wing-back and either AM or WCB depending on how far up the WB has pushed in the current phase.

He also won't actively move around Xhaka, but this isn't too much of an issue, as long as you put him on the side with the WCB then he'll do his job. FM doesn't really have the mechanic for a DM/CM that acts in this way, so it's best to deploy the tactic one-sided like I have in my post above. If the game allowed for this type of movement from the DM/CM then you could get away with playing two WCBs.

Inrl the overall team shape tends to shift from one side to the other, depending on the side that the attack is going through.

For example, if we attack through the right-side, Frimpong will be pushing right up the pitch and Kossounou will come up with him to support, Pala will cover, meanwhile on the other side of the pitch Xhaka will move centrally and Grimaldo will stay in a defensive-minded position until the last moment, when he cuts into/outside of the box, into a central area, at which point Xhaka will cover the width.

If we attack through the left-side, then Tapsoba/Hincapie push up behind Grimaldo as he hugs the touchline, and Pala again drifts wide to form that diamond shape. On the right flank, Frimpong moves inside to find the pocket of space from which he scored on the weekend against Werder Bremen, and again Xhaka covers that.

[Karakartal1903]

On 29.10.2023 at 23:34, BanOly said:

Pretty much what I've arrived at. RDF did a tactical analysis a short while ago for FM23 that covers how we play extremely well, but got a few things wrong. You're spot on that Boniface/Schick play as a CF not AF, and Tah covers the defence instead of sitting level.

The three biggest challenges to replicate on FM for sure are Grimaldo, Palacios and Hofmann.

Grimaldo is a LOT more defensive than Frimpong, which makes me think he's not a CWB. Wing-back (Support) works very well in terms of overall positioning, but inrl he often winds up central during attacks to get off long shots, which doesn't happen with that role. So I tried him on IWB (Attack) but that trade-off means his positioning isn't quite right, because now he sits too centrally when we're out of possession too.

Palacios is, as you've said, the chief ball-winner of our midfield, who often racks up many tackles, interceptions and recoveries per match over Xhaka. However he is also very creative, and has notched up a lot of assists. If only there were a Central Midfielder/Carrilero role for the DM position... I think SV is the closest we can get, but he doesn't perform well for me in that role.

Finally, as you've covered, Wirtz is definitely a CAM and the primary creative outlet for the team but Hofmann operates halfway between CAM and RW and he doesn't really have a role that replicates what he does on FM. I've been playing them both as CAMs but while this works for Wirtz it isn't getting the best results out of Hofmann.

HELLO @BanOly CAN YOU SHARE YOUR TACTICS?

[Karakartal1903]

On 30.10.2023 at 05:01, Sébastien ChabaI said:

Friends, foes, and fragile minds - i return with a gift of a tactical masterclass in the emulation sector, this is the peak of tactical replication on the sigames forum

This is xabi's leverkusen vs freiberg which occurred on sunday the 29th of october:

disregard haste, within the limitations of the match engine (fm24) we have had to forgo certain TI's which unfortunately now negate around 10% possession in order to create a tactic that yields results

i've been reading the posts here, and what i think you all lack is a creative bone, dont limit yourselves to these 'roles' that are on fm, broaden your mind, yes perhaps in real life boniface is a true cf, except he's not, and he's not an advanced forward either, he's boniface and xabi alonso has sliders irl and he can use to tell him what to do in and out of posession, rather than saying today big bon you are going to play CFa, capisce? with the lack of options and (bring back sliders in some manner) by giving us colorful position dummies you have all become attached to roles where infact you need to approach the game differently from this day onwards3

we currently play the best football on the planet, like leverkusen

 

with the extreme limitations of the match engine, this is the closest you will get:

wirtz = f9, moves into channels. now go and watch a leverkusen game, frimpong defends way higher than wba/cwba, so dw is ideal with gets further forward and crosse from byline, some games he cuts inside, some games he runs wide with it, again, we are limited to only selecting one so i don't select one, because i dont want these limits

for the LWB, stay wider take more risks dribble more, now you may say, but grimaldo moves inside to take long shots a lot of the game, no he doesn't he simply does not, he takes long shots from positions he finds himself in during set pieces, and playing the lwb as wba instead of iwba you will still see the boy running inside as long as you once again don't limit the player to running wide with the ball!

 

 

free your minds from self imposed shackles

savio is the wirtz position, he doesn't have comes deep to get ball etc  and look where he often finds himself with the ball ala wirtz

look at the two midfielders deciding a 1-1 pattern ala xhaka palacios

shadow striker on fm is not shadow striker irl, do not be fooled by the names given to you

out of posession we look like a back 4 at times, and a back 3 at other times, ala leverkusen

this is it, capisce

 

edit: nevermind i give up, impossible atm lets see what me is like on release!

HELLO @Sébastien Chabal CAN YOU SHARE YOUR TACTICS?

[BanOly]

13 hours ago, Karakartal1903 said:

HELLO @BanOly CAN YOU SHARE YOUR TACTICS?

We both shared our tactics on the posts that you're quoting.

Mine is pretty much an adaptation on RDF's Leverkusen tactic from FM23, with all the changes I mentioned in my earlier post, but I will also be putting it in my Leverkusen thread this weekend 

[Karakartal1903]

HELLO @BanOly YOU SHARED IT BUT I CANNOT SEE THE PLAYER TASKS FOR EXAMPLE WHAT ARE CWB'S TASKS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST

[Karakartal1903]

@BanOly I WILL FOLLOW THE NEW TITLE, I AM WAITING WITH CURIOUSLY

[Zico10]

Due to the ME limitations, its absolutely a dog job to replicate any tactic but one can get a close Leverkusen template and same time one that makes you happy with the results and the football played. Me, being a purist of the "jogo bonito" and a student of Bielsa's  attacking football, I created my own Leverkusen template according to Xabi Alonso principles of time and space and my own view of attacking football played with 1 or 2 touches and intensity. The football played is quite spectacular and if you have a couple, ideally 3 finishers to play as the front 3 you, will embarrass some big teams. All the PI's have been tweaked to achieve the ideal Leverkusen formation 3-6-1 when attacking or sometimes even a 1-8-1 when camping in the opposition half.

 

[TheMartello]

5 hours ago, Zico10 said:

Due to the ME limitations, its absolutely a dog job to replicate any tactic but one can get a close Leverkusen template and same time one that makes you happy with the results and the football played. Me, being a purist of the "jogo bonito" and a student of Bielsa's  attacking football, I created my own Leverkusen template according to Xabi Alonso principles of time and space and my own view of attacking football played with 1 or 2 touches and intensity. The football played is quite spectacular and if you have a couple, ideally 3 finishers to play as the front 3 you, will embarrass some big teams. All the PI's have been tweaked to achieve the ideal Leverkusen formation 3-6-1 when attacking or sometimes even a 1-8-1 when camping in the opposition half.

 

Looks great! 

 

What are the PI´s that you use?

[Dickie Greenleef]

On 08/12/2023 at 09:23, Karakartal1903 said:

@BanOly I WILL FOLLOW THE NEW TITLE, I AM WAITING WITH CURIOUSLY

He won't upload. Limitations of the match engine unfortunately mean that xabi's tactic will never be recreated properly on FM24. Take a look at the 'meta' for this year here: https://fm-arena.com/table/27-patch-24-2-0/

We've tried, and failed - at no fault of our own, simply due to the game's limitations.

[Maddux]

The tactics in the first post looks pretty similar to the asymmetrical 3-4-3 i'm developing since FM 21.

The tactics started as a recreation of Eintracht Frankfurt under Adi Hütter and Oliver Glasner and now, with a few tweaks what Dino Toppmöller is playing at Frankfurt,

 

 

It was more a 3-4-1-2 under Hütter and Glasner but Toppmöller has transformed the tactics to a fluid system that switches between a 4-4-2 flat and various back-3 formations between phases.

 

FM 24 Toppmöller Ball v1.3.fmf

[TheMartello]

6 hours ago, Maddux said:

The tactics in the first post looks pretty similar to the asymmetrical 3-4-3 i'm developing since FM 21.

The tactics started as a recreation of Eintracht Frankfurt under Adi Hütter and Oliver Glasner and now, with a few tweaks what Dino Toppmöller is playing at Frankfurt,

 

 

It was more a 3-4-1-2 under Hütter and Glasner but Toppmöller has transformed the tactics to a fluid system that switches between a 4-4-2 flat and various back-3 formations between phases.

 

FM 24 Toppmöller Ball v1.3.fmf 42.05 kB · 6 downloads

How are the results with this? 

[Maddux]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb TheMartello:

How are the results with this? 

Results are good of course.

[TheMartello]

28 minutes ago, Maddux said:

Results are good of course.

Do you have screenshots?

 

Loved your 4-3-3 as well!

[Maddux]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb TheMartello:

Do you have screenshots?

 

Loved your 4-3-3 as well!

Sadly not.

I wasn't doing a test save with this tactics only but used the tactics in multiple savegames as first to third option. So i can't post league results with this tactics only.

But i will rewrite one of my guides for the tactics and post it in the tactics sharing center soon. I'm just a bit busy with the holidays.

[TheMartello]

5 minutes ago, Maddux said:

Sadly not.

I wasn't doing a test save with this tactics only but used the tactics in multiple savegames as first to third option. So i can't post league results with this tactics only.

But i will rewrite one of my guides for the tactics and post it in the tactics sharing center soon. I'm just a bit busy with the holidays.

That would be awesome! 

 

Looking forward reading that! Enjoy the holidays!