High pressing and possession orientated style of play

[cmonreds]

Introduction

The umbrella term tiki taka encompasses ball possession and high pressing. It is executed by various managers with different variations. Gegenpress is a playing style that shares tiki-taka's approach to high pressing. However, the methods and purpose of the press are fundamentally different from those in tiki-taka. Broadly speaking, tiki-taka aims for early recovery for defensive safety, while gegenpress seeks to exploit imbalances in oppositions defensive organisation and balance to create goal-scoring opportunities.

The  evolution within the tactical schools of tiki-taka and gegenpress is blurring the lines, and variations of tactics within both schools increasingly share similarities with the other. Tiki-taka, to a much greater extent, emphasizes transitions and more direct attacking, while gegenpress has to deal with playing against established defenses with fewer opportunities for counter-attacks. This is exemplified with FM23's description of Pep Guardiola's tactical style and preferences:

Tactic

The same tactic has been used for seven seasons (2022-2029) with Stade Rennais FC. FM23 description of my tactical style of play and preferences are:

The description of my preferred formation is due to using wingback both in role and position in a traditional 4-3-3 DM Wide. The thought behind the tactic is to defend in a 4-3-3 and attack in a 3-4-3 formation. The tactic is symmetric and with identical instructions for players playing in pairs or at the flanks.

The tactical overview is:

The player instructions given are:

• SK: Tackle harder to encourage sweeping for the ball. In transition instruction together with role instructions gives the GK quite some freedom in distribution of the ball.
• CD's: Tackle harder, pass it shorter, stay wider - where stay wider is in conjunction with the HB dropping deep. Wider CB's gives the best 3-4-3 structure for triangles/diamonds.
• HB: Tackle harder, pass it shorter, shoot less often
• WB's: Tackle harder, pass it shorter, shoot less often, stay wider - the WB's are the main providers of width in the tactic.
• CM's: Tackle harder, pass it shorter, shoot less often, roam from position - the CM's are the engine in possession both for ball circulation and attacking. Roam from position gives them the freedom to move into positions where they can receive the ball and create and finish off attacks.
• IW's: Pass it shorter, shoot less often, sit narrower - The sit narrower instruction helps in creating diamonds in the 3-4-3 structure.
• AF: Pass it shorter, shoot less often - An AF pushing up creates more space between the opposition midfield and defence for the CM's to move into compared to using a DLF in the position.

Results

I nearly all the time play with Stade Rennais when playing FM23. This is due to huge potential both in young players at the club and for the club to improve facilities/staff/stadium. This tactic is the one that has led to the best results. It is based on an old pure tiki-taka version that has also given decent results. With this tactic I acchieved something I have never done before and that is to win the Champions League in the 4th season (2026). The main competitor PSG has been very competitive in the save game also boasting a CL win and a final. In regards to possession in the Ligue 1 it is consistently around 66 %. The clubs acchievement using this tactic is as follows:

Using this tactic this is the manager statistics for matches:

Discussion

Tactically I am most influenced by the principles of Pep Guardiola, even though asymmetrical tactics is one of his traits. In my books this is a tactic belonging to the Guardiola branch of the Tiki-Taka school. This tactic can also be used as a template for using Guardiola's inventions in regards to player movement/positioning. If using this tactic build your team/squad from the back. It requires a SK good at both sweeping and distributing the ball. The CD's needs pace, intelligence, good one vs one skills as well as passing. The HB is a demanding role, my preference is a physical beast with good technical and passing skills. Please join the discussion in light of the soon coming FM2024 and positional play that can be implemented into this tactics.

TeamWorkRate.fmf

Edited October 1, 2023 by cmonreds

[coach vahid]

Glad to see you black.

Do you still use your training strategy?

The players still developp well?

Thanks.

[dom.march]

Hi,

 

do you play all the time in positive or you switch away, or for important game to cautious or even defensive ?

Dom

[cmonreds]

2 hours ago, coach vahid said:

Glad to see you black.

Do you still use your training strategy?

The players still developp well?

Thanks.

Hi,

thank you very much and it is nice to see you again as well.

I still use the same training strategy for the 1st team. I train the positions according to the tactics and use individual focus to strenghten attributes. For the last save game training of the reserve and youth team has been delegated to the HOYD to increase progress in the game. My experience is that taking charge of training for the reserves/youths and using the training schedules produces better training results.

The players develope well with the training regime as sessions used allows for a lot of individual traning as well as tactical familiarity and team cohesion. Bear in mind that both tactics and traning schedules are used in a squad rotation system. Basically I play with two team selections with full rotation. I would not use the training schedules if mainly playing with a first eleven. Below is an example for 4/5 star potential player from the age of 17 (Desire Doue) who has been part of the first team the whole time:

Edited October 2, 2023 by cmonreds

[cmonreds]

39 minutes ago, dom.march said:

Hi,

 

do you play all the time in positive or you switch away, or for important game to cautious or even defensive ?

Dom

Hi,

I only play with positive mentality and never change before or during matches. This often leads to goals scored late in the match.

[dom.march]

Il y a 15 heures, cmonreds a dit :

Hi,

I only play with positive mentality and never change before or during matches. This often leads to goals scored late in the match.

Thanks,

do you use any OI ?

[cmonreds]

No, I have not used or tested OI with the tactic.

[Adonalsium]

Could you add some 2D images of what the formation tends to look like in possession of the ball? Maybe when countering, and when in prolonged possession?

[cmonreds]

2 hours ago, Adonalsium said:

Could you add some 2D images of what the formation tends to look like in possession of the ball? Maybe when countering, and when in prolonged possession?

Transition counter:

3 min 38 sec: Truffert (left WB) regains possession just in front of own third:

Kalimuendo (AF), Gouri/Doku (IW's), Doue/Diouf (MC's).

3 min 41 sec

3 min 45 sec

 

Possessional sequence 23 seconds:

Edited October 4, 2023 by cmonreds

[cmonreds]

 

 

 

 

[cmonreds]

 

Possessional sequence 30 seconds:

Initially regaining possession, transition to counter.

 

Opposition stops the counter.

Playing against an opposition established defence starts:

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by cmonreds

[cmonreds]

 

 

 

 

[cmonreds]

 

 

 

[cmonreds]

[cmonreds]

The 8th season speed playing (just watching goal replays) ended with a treble and honours in the league, CL and national cup. The youth team won the UEFA youth league and national competition as well. 

The tactic in the start overperfomed in relation to the players in the squad, now it is performing in accordance with the players at the club. It is not only about winning matches/trophies but also about doing it convincingly. Most players in the squad are present from the start or developed from the clubs youth ranks. The players bought are:

Summer 2022: Roualt (DC), Ali Ben Romdhane

Summer 2023: Lafont (GK)

Summer 2023: Fresneda (WB R)

Summer 2025: Diomande (HB)

Edited October 4, 2023 by cmonreds

[alex1234]

On 02/10/2023 at 11:36, cmonreds said:

Hi,

thank you very much and it is nice to see you again as well.

I still use the same training strategy for the 1st team. I train the positions according to the tactics and use individual focus to strenghten attributes. For the last save game training of the reserve and youth team has been delegated to the HOYD to increase progress in the game. My experience is that taking charge of training for the reserves/youths and using the training schedules produces better training results.

The players develope well with the training regime as sessions used allows for a lot of individual traning as well as tactical familiarity and team cohesion. Bear in mind that both tactics and traning schedules are used in a squad rotation system. Basically I play with two team selections with full rotation. I would not use the training schedules if mainly playing with a first eleven. Below is an example for 4/5 star potential player from the age of 17 (Desire Doue) who has been part of the first team the whole time:

Where can we find these routines . I want to try your tactics but also want to see your training 

[Adonalsium]

Much obliged with the images. It looks like a very wide 3-4-3 when building up from the back and progressing the ball, but then it narrows down a bit in the final third. I actually really like it when you had 4 players in the box and 3 players just outside the box, containing the opposition. I've found that effect is a bit difficult to achieve with something like a regular 4-3-3. Giving one of the CMs a player trait like "Arrives Late In the Box" would be interesting for those situations, if they are common. I'll try this out for myself too!

Edited October 5, 2023 by Adonalsium

[cmonreds]

13 hours ago, alex1234 said:

Where can we find these routines . I want to try your tactics but also want to see your training 

Here are the training schedules. I train the individual roles and focus on attributes that is prioritized/needs to be strengthened as well. 

No match.fmf Pre Season.fmf 2 matches_TUESDAY_SATURDAY.fmf 2 matches_WEDNESDAY_SATURDAY.fmf 2 matches_WEDNESDAY_SUNDAY.fmf 1 match_FRIDAY.fmf 1 match_SATURDAY.fmf 1 match_SUNDAY.fmf 2 matches_THURSDAY_SUNDAY.fmf 2 matches_TUESDAY_SUNDAY.fmf

Edited October 5, 2023 by cmonreds

[cmonreds]

7 hours ago, Adonalsium said:

Much obliged with the images. It looks like a very wide 3-4-3 when building up from the back and progressing the ball, but then it narrows down a bit in the final third. I actually really like it when you had 4 players in the box and 3 players just outside the box, containing the opposition. I've found that effect is a bit difficult to achieve with something like a regular 4-3-3. Giving one of the CMs a player trait like "Arrives Late In the Box" would be interesting for those situations, if they are common. I'll try this out for myself too!

The IW's will naturally stay wide in the early phase of build-ups even though they are instructed to position themselves narrower. In the later phases they will be attacking/positioning the box. Having sufficient players in the box is crucial. The rationale for positioning in the tactic is twofold. Players should position themselves to create passing patterns/passing opportunities for the ballcarrier, as well as position themselves for the immediate counter-press to hinder quick opposition counter-attacks. Positioning serves both purposes and is interrelated. Often own team will have numerical superiority around own ballcarrier (players positioned closer to own ballcarrier), this also enables an effectice counter-press if the ball is lost (quicker transitions), and also enhances pressing in general. .

Edited October 5, 2023 by cmonreds

[TheMartello]

Hi man. Great to have you back with a tactic!

 

Can you show a screenshot of Doku? Really curious what he looks like in your save!

 

Or is it maybe possible to upload your entire savegame so I/we can take a look around?

 

I´ve started to use your tactic and I love what I see! Probably going to start a New (last FM23) save for it!

[cmonreds]

1 hour ago, TheMartello said:

Hi man. Great to have you back with a tactic!

 

Can you show a screenshot of Doku? Really curious what he looks like in your save!

 

Or is it maybe possible to upload your entire savegame so I/we can take a look around?

 

I´ve started to use your tactic and I love what I see! Probably going to start a New (last FM23) save for it!

Thanks,

 

Doku has great potential. In this save both his passing/goalscoring ability has been improved through additional training focus in the IW role. Screenshot of Doku:

 

Nice to hear you want to try it out. Let me know how it works for you 

[joandrle]

Do you think this tactic works with Barcelona? I know it is a big club but I can't find a good tactic and also my players are always tired even though I rotate. Thank you very much.

[cmonreds]

I have not played with Barcelona for many years on FM, still to my knowledge of their players, club DNA and squad size the tactic should be a good match for the club.

Bear in mind the intensity of the tactic:

It is mandatory to rotate the squad to keep players fresh and prevent injuries with the tactic. Also, training is very important. What are your pre-season training like ? My training schedules looks like this for injury risk, condition and fatigue:

1 match week:

2 matches week:

For the two matches per week schedules when the last match is on Sunday there is a slight worsening of the condition/fatigue. This is due to the rest/recover after the match is Monday next week. 

The pre-season is intense and heavy on condition/fatigue. This is done mainly through playing football which has more benefits than the pure physicals. I never have players that needs to rest and above 60% less injuries than average. I opt for a player never playing more than one match a week, if that is not possible never playing more than 1,5 match per week. 

In FM23 squad management is just as important as tactics, as the manager you need to be aware of when to rest players. Make your own squad screen overview template that gives you the information you need to do this at a quck glance. Below is the one I am using:

Edited October 6, 2023 by cmonreds

[alex1234]

On 05/10/2023 at 09:49, cmonreds said:

Here are the training schedules. I train the individual roles and focus on attributes that is prioritized/needs to be strengthened as well. 

No match.fmf 19.16 kB · 13 downloads Pre Season.fmf 19.16 kB · 13 downloads 2 matches_TUESDAY_SATURDAY.fmf 19.2 kB · 10 downloads 2 matches_WEDNESDAY_SATURDAY.fmf 19.2 kB · 11 downloads 2 matches_WEDNESDAY_SUNDAY.fmf 19.2 kB · 9 downloads 1 match_FRIDAY.fmf 19.17 kB · 9 downloads 1 match_SATURDAY.fmf 19.18 kB · 13 downloads 1 match_SUNDAY.fmf 19.17 kB · 11 downloads 2 matches_THURSDAY_SUNDAY.fmf 19.2 kB · 9 downloads 2 matches_TUESDAY_SUNDAY.fmf 19.2 kB · 11 downloads

Will try them . I have been trying ebst training till now. What about youth training 

[cmonreds]

Hi alex1234,

I use the same training schedules for reserve/youth teams.  Also individual training focus for each player.

Youth team:

- I train the roles used in the tactic. For IW's I train them to be natural in both AML/AMR positon as they change/swap positions in the tactic (It is possible to train I.E. CD's is ballplaying defender when i the youth team).

- For the youth team ballcontrol/passing is  emphasized. 

Reserve team:

- Trying to train the player attributes in regard to their position/role. I.E. CD's needs quickness, IW's needs shooting etc. (Players are trained for the roles in the tactic).

- Trying to make complete fotballers in accordance with the roles in the tactic.

[cmonreds]

In general my understanding/division of football tactical styles are by the variable speed/urgency of tasks when defending or attacking. This also influences the transitions between these two phases. In general as humans for understanding and describing phenomenas we tend to categorize the extremes as dimensional opposites. In example high vs low, heavy vs light and so on. Using two dimensions can increase understanding of a phenomena. Football consists of both attacking (in possession) and defendig (out of possession). Between these are the transitions and how they are performed. To easier understand and gain knowledge of football tactics with speed/urgency as a variable the phases of play (out of possession, in possession, transitions) can be illustrated as in the figure below:

 

 

Along these axes different tactical styles and managerial approaches can be found. The quickness of transition is ideal conditions to make the tactical style work.

Edited October 6, 2023 by cmonreds

[joandrle]

En 6/10/2023 a las 15:45, cmonreds dijo:

I have not played with Barcelona for many years on FM, still to my knowledge of their players, club DNA and squad size the tactic should be a good match for the club.

Bear in mind the intensity of the tactic:

It is mandatory to rotate the squad to keep players fresh and prevent injuries with the tactic. Also, training is very important. What are your pre-season training like ? My training schedules looks like this for injury risk, condition and fatigue:

1 match week:

2 matches week:

For the two matches per week schedules when the last match is on Sunday there is a slight worsening of the condition/fatigue. This is due to the rest/recover after the match is Monday next week. 

The pre-season is intense and heavy on condition/fatigue. This is done mainly through playing football which has more benefits than the pure physicals. I never have players that needs to rest and above 60% less injuries than average. I opt for a player never playing more than one match a week, if that is not possible never playing more than 1,5 match per week. 

In FM23 squad management is just as important as tactics, as the manager you need to be aware of when to rest players. Make your own squad screen overview template that gives you the information you need to do this at a quck glance. Below is the one I am using:

Thank you very much mate!!

[Gerrit10]

Can you show some results?

And the league standings for season 2024, 27, 28 and 2029?

[cmonreds]

3 hours ago, Gerrit10 said:

Can you show some results?

And the league standings for season 2024, 27, 28 and 2029?

Ligue 1

Results:

[cmonreds]

The four games played this evening:

[c0nn0r]

Are you planning to adapt this to FM24? 

[cmonreds]

16 hours ago, c0nn0r said:

Are you planning to adapt this to FM24? 

When the time comes there will be FM24 versions of both the tactic and training schedules. I am on a break from playing right now, but it is exciting with the new roles and positional rotation in FM24, give it a try yourself and please share your findings.

[cmonreds]

I have just speed-tested the tactic imported into FM24 to gain a first impression of how it works. Since the original tactic (FM23) used only one of the positional rotational roles new in FM24 there is not too much of a difference. The HB role has improved in my opinion and now more consistently positioned between the two central defenders.

• 'The back three is positioned a little too narrow for my preferences (Attacking width at the narrowest), an in-depth look at the game is needed to clarify the impact of this and if need to altering this by adjusting other instructions. I want the transitions to be fast either way, similar width (offence/defence) enables this, when players are positioned close together both for collective pressing as well as fluid short passing with teammates close by.
• Also positional roles can affect the transitions when players are changing/moving out of defensive positions, thoughtful considerations has to be made for how it affects the desireed shape and style of play. It can be utilized for altering the tactic against different formations/styles of play and match scenarios, as well as creating depth (utilizing more stratas) within the overall shape of the tactic.
• I need to dwelve into the set-pieces editor to optimize the instructions in relation to the original tactic (FM23).
• Guardiola's  tacticsal style is changed to tiki taka, my tactic is a hybrid between vertical tiki taka and gegenpress (Gegenpress according to FM24).
• Possession wise hold shape instructions for offensive transistions as well as utilizing F9/DLF and changing the HB role could be options if increasing possession is wanted. Possession is currently at 62% and highest in the Ligue 1. In Uefa Europa League at 5ht with 61%. This is expected to increase when tactical familiarity/team cohesion is improved.
• Training needs work as it was based upon Match preperation sessions focusing on training individual roles attributes as well as teamwork/tactical famililarity/team cohesion. There are fewer of these sessions in FM24.

 

Out of possession 

 

In possession

 

 

 

Results

[TheMartello]

4 hours ago, cmonreds said:

I have just speed-tested the tactic imported into FM24 to gain a first impression of how it works. Since the original tactic (FM23) used only one of the positional rotational roles new in FM24 there is not too much of a difference. The HB role has improved in my opinion and now more consistently positioned between the two central defenders.

• 'The back three is positioned a little too narrow for my preferences (Attacking width at the narrowest), an in-depth look at the game is needed to clarify the impact of this and if need to altering this by adjusting other instructions. I want the transitions to be fast either way, similar width (offence/defence) enables this, when players are positioned close together both for collective pressing as well as fluid short passing with teammates close by.
• Also positional roles can affect the transitions when players are changing/moving out of defensive positions, thoughtful considerations has to be made for how it affects the desireed shape and style of play. It can be utilized for altering the tactic against different formations/styles of play and match scenarios, as well as creating depth (utilizing more stratas) within the overall shape of the tactic.
• I need to dwelve into the set-pieces editor to optimize the instructions in relation to the original tactic (FM23).
• Guardiola's  tacticsal style is changed to tiki taka, my tactic is a hybrid between vertical tiki taka and gegenpress (Gegenpress according to FM24).
• Possession wise hold shape instructions for offensive transistions as well as utilizing F9/DLF and changing the HB role could be options if increasing possession is wanted. Possession is currently at 62% and highest in the Ligue 1. In Uefa Europa League at 5ht with 61%. This is expected to increase when tactical familiarity/team cohesion is improved.
• Training needs work as it was based upon Match preperation sessions focusing on training individual roles attributes as well as teamwork/tactical famililarity/team cohesion. There are fewer of these sessions in FM24.

 

Out of possession 

 

In possession

 

 

 

Results

You have the downloadlink of the FM24 version?

[rodau]

"When the time comes there will be FM24 versions of both the tactic and training schedules"

[cmonreds]

45 minutes ago, TheMartello said:

You have the downloadlink of the FM24 version?

You can play with the FM23 version, still works. I haven't get to grasps with the set-pieces editor yet. Choosed keep possession/work ball into box for throw ins, inswinging first post and push up for corners. Defending corners is done with all players going back.

[c0nn0r]

1 hour ago, cmonreds said:

You can play with the FM23 version, still works. I haven't get to grasps with the set-pieces editor yet. Choosed keep possession/work ball into box for throw ins, inswinging first post and push up for corners. Defending corners is done with all players going back.

Give short corners to the edge of the box a try

[cmonreds]

1 hour ago, c0nn0r said:

Give short corners to the edge of the box a try

Thanks for the tip, will keep that in mind 

[cmonreds]

Regarding the roles for positional play

Altering the 3-4-3 midfield to a box shape shown in the screenshot below.  Formation changed by dropping the wingbacks to the fullback position. IW's main provider of width. (Hold shape for offensive transition).

Back 3:

Belocian = Inverted fullback / Left FB position

Santamaria = HB (unchanged) / DM position

Jacquet = CD (unchanged) / Right DC position

Midfield 4 (box):

Wooh = Libero support / Left DC position

Doue G. = Inverted Wingback (support) / Right FB position

Bourigeaud = Mezzala (support) / Left MC position (swap with right MC position)

Doue D. = Mezzala (support) / Right MC position (swap with left MC position)

Front 3:

Salah = Inverted Winger (Attack) / AML position (swap position with AMR): PI stay wider, as well as Mezzala pushing up into channels leads to wider positioning of IW's

Bertug Yldirim = Advanced Forward (Attack): Could be interesting to explore F9/DLF role for this position.

Lambourde = Same as for Salah

[cmonreds]

F9 (Bertug Yildirim)

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by cmonreds

[JoOSTAR]

19 hours ago, cmonreds said:

F9 (Bertug Yildirim)

 

 

These changes make you perform better?

[kalu00]

On 24/10/2023 at 01:12, cmonreds said:

Regarding the roles for positional play

Altering the 3-4-3 midfield to a box shape shown in the screenshot below.  Formation changed by dropping the wingbacks to the fullback position. IW's main provider of width. (Hold shape for offensive transition).

Back 3:

Belocian = Inverted fullback / Left FB position

Santamaria = HB (unchanged) / DM position

Jacquet = CD (unchanged) / Right DC position

Midfield 4 (box):

Wooh = Libero support / Left DC position

Doue G. = Inverted Wingback (support) / Right FB position

Bourigeaud = Mezzala (support) / Left MC position (swap with right MC position)

Doue D. = Mezzala (support) / Right MC position (swap with left MC position)

Front 3:

Salah = Inverted Winger (Attack) / AML position (swap position with AMR): PI stay wider, as well as Mezzala pushing up into channels leads to wider positioning of IW's

Bertug Yldirim = Advanced Forward (Attack): Could be interesting to explore F9/DLF role for this position.

Lambourde = Same as for Salah

 

Hey, wanted to ask couple of questions. First of all by this "Hold Shape" do you mean like the Team Instruction Hold Shape or does the IW do it naturally and did you change any Team or Player Instructions in FM24? And second are you still using the same training schedules for FM24? This tactic seems interesting to me and I would like to try it in FM24 😃

Edited October 24, 2023 by kalu00

[cmonreds]

5 hours ago, JoOSTAR said:

 

These changes make you perform better?

The changes were just to test out/have a look the positional rotation roles in the context of an overall 3-4-3 structure during a match. I have not played enough with these to changes to decide if they are better and are still playing with the original tactic. Still I liked how the players positioned with these roles.

[cmonreds]

1 hour ago, kalu00 said:

Hey, wanted to ask couple of questions. First of all by this "Hold Shape" do you mean like the Team Instruction Hold Shape or does the IW do it naturally and did you change any Team or Player Instructions in FM24? And second are you still using the same training schedules for FM24? This tactic seems interesting to me and I would like to try it in FM24 😃

Hold Shape is the TI for offensive transitions. Still the IW's positioning are interplaying/influenced by the runs/positioning of teammates nearby. Examples:

1. Original version of the tactic: PI stay narrower for IW's, as well as WB's maintaining width on the outside of the IW's further "pushes" the IW's inwards.
2. Box midfield of the tactic: PI stay wider for IW's, as well as MC's roles changed to Mezzala's occupying the half-spaces further "pushes" the IW's outwards (towards the byline).

Training needs work as it was based upon Match preperation sessions focusing on training individual roles attributes as well as teamwork/tactical famililarity/team cohesion. There are fewer of these sessions in FM24. I am currently testing training schedules based on the same principles as for FM23. When the season is finished and if players develope well I can upload them.

Give the tactic a go  Bear in mind I am still using the original version, the box midfield was to have a look at the positional play roles. The 3-2-5 build-up and attacking shape is trending these days, attacking duties for the WB's enables this in the original version of the tactic, I haven't tested this though.

If you experiment/change the tactics please share your findings.

Edited October 25, 2023 by cmonreds

[kalu00]

39 minutes ago, cmonreds said:

Hold Shape is the TI for offensive transitions. Still the IW's positioning are interplaying/influenced by the runs/positioning of teammates nearby. Examples:

1. Original version of the tactic: PI stay narrower for IW's, as well as WB's maintaining width on the outside of the IW's further "pushes" the IW's inwards.
2. Box midfield of the tactic: PI stay wider for IW's, as well as MC's roles changed to Mezzala's occupying the half-spaces further "pushes" the IW's outwards (towards the byline).

Training needs work as it was based upon Match preperation sessions focusing on training individual roles attributes as well as teamwork/tactical famililarity/team cohesion. There are fewer of these sessions in FM24. I am currently testing training schedules based on the same principles as for FM23. When the season is finished and if players develope well I can upload them.

Give the tactic a go  Bear in mind I am still using the original version, the box midfield was to have a look at the positional play roles. The 3-2-5 build-up and attacking shape is trending these days, attacking duties for the WB's enables this in the original version of the tactic, I haven't tested this though.

If you experiment/change the tactics please share your findings.

Thanks for the fast respond. Mainly I am playing with this newer version, the 3-2-5, and it's going surprisingly well, some away games can be a problem but it is always like that on FM lol. Also I found that the original one is better when I need to score goals or if I can't break down teams, so I am combining them two.

For the training I downloaded the schedules and loaded them in FM23 so I can change the Def. Shape Att. Movement etc. I swapped Def. Shape with Defending general training, Att. Movement with Attacking and Teamwork with Physical as these were the best ones in FM23 if I can recall correctly, but I don't know how it will affect the player development. If you come up with something for training please share it 😀

Edited October 25, 2023 by kalu00

[cmonreds]

Principles for training schedules

• Find the optimum between player development, decrease injury risk/fatigue, increase condition/sharpness/team cohesion/happiness/tactical familiarity
• Match Practice has priority as they train attributes for Individual Roles (Specialization of attributes)
• General sessions (dark blue) are preferred as they also increase team cohesion/as well tactical familiarity related to the general sessions theme (Broad training of attributes)
• Try to balance/portion the training intensity (GK/DEF/ATT below schedule) evenly throughout the week and below 40% (Hover the pointer over the bar)
• Designing the training schedule with Rest sessions on: One Rest session on Mondays (In case of away match on Sunday and travels), the same for the day before and after Match day (In case of away matches and travels)
• Rest sessions: Pri 1) apply Recovery sessions if <7 used to reduce injury risk and increase team cohesion   Pri 2) if 7 Recovery sessions is used apply Match Tactics session (limit per week 3) to increase cohesion/familiarity
• For Pre Season arrange only Home matches or matches to avoid travelling
• - NB !!! The schedules presented are not tested for a whole season.

Example is screenshot below (1 match Friday)

• Three Rest sessions: Dependant of Home or Away match and if a match is played on Sunday 1 Recovery Session or 2 Match Tactics sessions can be applied, alternatively do nothing and keep the Rest sessions.

Edited October 25, 2023 by cmonreds

[cmonreds]

13 hours ago, kalu00 said:

Thanks for the fast respond. Mainly I am playing with this newer version, the 3-2-5, and it's going surprisingly well, some away games can be a problem but it is always like that on FM lol. Also I found that the original one is better when I need to score goals or if I can't break down teams, so I am combining them two.

For the training I downloaded the schedules and loaded them in FM23 so I can change the Def. Shape Att. Movement etc. I swapped Def. Shape with Defending general training, Att. Movement with Attacking and Teamwork with Physical as these were the best ones in FM23 if I can recall correctly, but I don't know how it will affect the player development. If you come up with something for training please share it 😀

I am pondering about what happens if instead of training player roles with duty instead players are trained  for just the position. Will this lead to increased versatility and reduced penalty for tactical familiarity in example by switching between Wingback and Inverted Wingback role? The penalty/reduced tactical familiarity is the main reason why I haven't used versions of the tactic that change the player roles. If anyone has an answer to this or have tried to train only positions your feedback would be appreciated.

Edited October 25, 2023 by cmonreds

[kalu00]

11 hours ago, cmonreds said:

Principles for training schedules

• Find the optimum between player development, decrease injury risk/fatigue, increase condition/sharpness/team cohesion/happiness/tactical familiarity
• Match Practice has priority as they train attributes for Individual Roles (Specialization of attributes)
• General sessions (dark blue) are preferred as they also increase team cohesion/as well tactical familiarity related to the general sessions theme (Broad training of attributes)
• Try to balance/portion the training intensity (GK/DEF/ATT below schedule) evenly throughout the week and below 40% (Hover the pointer over the bar)
• Designing the training schedule with Rest sessions on: One Rest session on Mondays (In case of away match on Sunday and travels), the same for the day before and after Match day (In case of away matches and travels)
• Rest sessions: Pri 1) apply Recovery sessions if <7 used to reduce injury risk and increase team cohesion   Pri 2) if 7 Recovery sessions is used apply Match Tactics session (limit per week 3) to increase cohesion/familiarity
• For Pre Season arrange only Home matches or matches to avoid travelling
• - NB !!! The schedules presented are not tested for a whole season.

Example is screenshot below (1 match Friday)

• Three Rest sessions: Dependant of Home or Away match and if a match is played on Sunday 1 Recovery Session or 2 Match Tactics sessions can be applied, alternatively do nothing and keep the Rest sessions.

I kinda did something similar to this by copying your FM23 schedules and changing Def Shape Att Movement and Teamwork. But yeah I think these are more suitable in terms of injury risk and other things balance if you know what I mean. I also like to rest after the match the 11 who played the match just for 1 day and maybe that's counterproductive.

Edited October 26, 2023 by kalu00

[cmonreds]

14 hours ago, kalu00 said:

I kinda did something similar to this by copying your FM23 schedules and changing Def Shape Att Movement and Teamwork. But yeah I think these are more suitable in terms of injury risk and other things balance if you know what I mean. I also like to rest after the match the 11 who played the match just for 1 day and maybe that's counterproductive.

The rest after match is not counterproductive, it decreases injuries. The schedules presented in this thread leads to more injuries for first team regulars. The FM23 training schedules had a decrease of injuries by 60 % compared to expected injuries, as for the presented FM24 training schedules:

The injuries are also for a longer time periods compared to the FM23 schedules. Players responds well to the presented training schedules with broad development of attributes and rotational players having a lesser amount of injuries. As per 03 December 2023:

Theate age 23,5 years with 4 star potental:

Assignon age 23,5 years with 3 star potental:

Doue D. age 18,5 years with 4/5 star potental (squad rotation):

Kalimuendo age 21,8 years with 4/5 star potental:

Jacquet age 18,5 years with 4/5 star potental (squad rotation):

Belocian age 18,75 years with 4/5 star potental (squad rotation):

Lambourde age 17,9 years with 4/5 star potental (squad rotation):

In general U19 players responds well to the training schedules:

Diallo age 16,9 years with 3.5/4.5 star potental (U19):

Akwa age 16,75 years with 3.5/4.5 star potental (U19):

Thebault age 16,75 years with 3.5/4.5 star potental (U19):

The presented schedules are not optimal as they increase injuries, either squad size (currently 23) must be increased or the training schedules should be adjusted with fewer training session / more rest. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by cmonreds

[yonko]

@cmonreds

Have you tried using the Rest tab where you can set players to train with Half Intensity or Rest based on their physical condition after match? Alternatively, you can also manually select your whole starting eleven and give them a day off, while the rest of your squad practices based on your schedule. I find either option very useful, especially in the second half of the season when I need my best 11 for most matches as I challenge for trophies.