Fundamental Football Manager - Making that basic 442

[jaycar]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

I only close down. I hardly ever tight mark the MCs

Thank you

[The Vikond]

Very good tread, rashidi. I am second season with Barcelona, firs season I won everything playing 433 (I know it was very hard ) and at the end of the season sold all of the aging stars and decided to make the New dream team. I am planing to make it for 442, my starting line up look like this:

GK: Valdez

DR: Zambrota

DL: Abidal

DCR: Puyol

DCL: Chielini

MCd: Fabregas (Play maker)

MCa: Iniesta

MR: C. Roanaldo

ML: Messi

FCd: Henry

FCa: Bojan

I am playing short passing (1~2), except Cesk who is on direct, slow tempo(4) and Normal Width(10). I know that my side lacks of strength in midfield and attack, but I hope that the technical and mental stats of the hole team can compensate it. Do you think that this can be the world beater team or I will need a old fashion DMC in the team. I am following your instruction for "making that 442" but I can not make Ronaldo and Messi to make bigger impact, they do not score very often, I usually win 1-0 or 2-0 but from side like this I and the fans expect more. Can you recommend how to utilize better this very technical and gifted squad playing 442? Thanks a lot Rashidi?

[blayhod]

i see this is becoming tactical advice thread and i pretty much know what i want to do, but i find it hard to translate it into sliders.

here's the case

i play a mexican league with chivas team which is really good at the start but with 2 or 3 signings i've made it even better.

I had some success but it isn't consistent and despite my position i feel i should get more out of the team but i've always struggled with translating my ideas into sliders.

as my team is technically gifted with great playmaker, wings and really big strong and driven striker, i wanted to play controling 4-4-2 .

having really good playmaker and DM i tend to make the playmaker to support the attack. my DM is defensively minded but he's really good enough to support attack here and there.

wingers are quality too and really quick with great crossing and dribble so i like them to push forward and cross with occasional back pass to pushing CM or DM.

full backs aren't bad also and i love them to overlap and cross. but when they do, the DM should track back aand support the DC'c.

i'm considering targetman role for my big strong and driven striker who should hold the ball up and wait for fullbacks and wingers to get forward. other option for him should be to push the ball to fast striker with good crossing who could go forward or to sideline and cross him back or to CM.

to support my controllling short passing game my defence shouldn't be too high neither too narrow as that should reduce space. also to win the ball back i'd like my players to close down from the opposition half,

but how the hell do i do that?!?

[Burst]

This cannot just be me, but when i use OI my team seem to fall apart even more, they just seem to be all over the shop. They go from being organized + conceding without OI and when i do use it they're all out of position and conceding goals. This is what i do:

tight mark ML + MR

closedown DL + DR

closedown there dangerman as pointed out in the scout report and close down any other defender/the goalkeeper if they have low composure ratings in the hope they will panic.

Please can someone point out where i'm going wrong?

[UTT]

Originally posted by Burst:

This cannot just be me, but when i use OI my team seem to fall apart even more, they just seem to be all over the shop. They go from being organized + conceding without OI and when i do use it they're all out of position and conceding goals. This is what i do:

tight mark ML + MR

closedown DL + DR

closedown there dangerman as pointed out in the scout report and close down any other defender/the goalkeeper if they have low composure ratings in the hope they will panic.

Please can someone point out where i'm going wrong?

Usually I tight mark both centre forwards

Close down full backs and any creative playmaker in the centre of midfield

Wingers, depends TBH, if they are quick then tight mark, if not, then close dowm

Always show onto weaker foot as well

[UTT]

Rashidi - How do I set up my player instructions for my 4-4-2 if I'm not playing with a deep lying FC? I sorta need a back up as I only have one to play that role?

Cheers

[Old Git]

Originally posted by Burst:

This cannot just be me, but when i use OI my team seem to fall apart even more, they just seem to be all over the shop. They go from being organized + conceding without OI and when i do use it they're all out of position and conceding goals. This is what i do:

tight mark ML + MR

closedown DL + DR

closedown there dangerman as pointed out in the scout report and close down any other defender/the goalkeeper if they have low composure ratings in the hope they will panic.

Please can someone point out where i'm going wrong?

Questions to ask yourselves:

Do you have TM ticked on your back four in their individual settings?

Do you use zonal or man-marking?

How are your full backs set up, lots of forward runs, attacking mentality, high creativity.

I personally TM the front six and show them onto the weaker foot. Hit them hard (less the CFs). There's no real difference in the amount of yellows/reds I pick up.

Right at the very start of the thread, there is a discussion on how to set up the back four, and all the way through there have been numerous suggestions which you could probably utilise. 442 can be done, takes a little more work than it used to, but, to get it right, you have to get it right from the bottom up so to speak, then the OI kicks in big.

Hope it helps.

[Old Git]

Originally posted by UTT:

Rashidi - How do I set up my player instructions for my 4-4-2 if I'm not playing with a deep lying FC? I sorta need a back up as I only have one to play that role?

Cheers

I have had a reasonable amount of success (results wise anyway!) with two "up top" strikers. One is set to FWR and RBW mixed, the other often. All else on rarely. Attacking mentality, CD the whole pitch, CF, couple of notches below centre and team setting for CD. I also have them switching, and occasionally have the one on less FWRs hold the ball up, hoping to draw the free-kick against bigger teams!

[Rashidi]

For anyone who thinks its not possible to make a decent 442 formation, here's a EPL premiership game against C.Palace.

Both the AI and I started with a 442 formation, the third goal we scored is the beaut..you will see a pass threaded to a winger who cuts in and runs into the box to score.

Its possible to make a good 442 formation, read through the thread. When in doubt always start conservatively, which I did, allowing the AI most of the possession, but they were not getting a lot of good one on ones. The play is patient and built up slowly. The most important thing to remember about any 442 formation is the mentality sliders. Alway set up your mentality right, especially for possession based games. In this one the backline was on one mentality, the midfield on one and the attacking pack on one.

Closing down was the easiest to do, but if you find that your defenders are closing down too earlier or are chasing after a ball that's gone behind them ,you need to adjust your defensive line.

I know a lot of people have been asking me to look at their tactics while some are ok, some of other tactics look too adventurous, with arrows from here to yazoo.

Unless you want to exploit the fact that the AI can't handle overattacking formations, I'm not too keen on discussing them. I have every intention of preventing games like that cos it just isn't fun.

Towards the end of this game, the AI literally gave up, already down to 10 men, it set up a defensive wall at the back which was the first I've ever seen, a formation I have used before in online games for a quick counter attacking game.

Anyways here's the link.. Tigers vs Palace.

Incidentally I think I removed all my tactics from the domain.

[Old Git]

Rash,

Any chance of hosting that file somewhere where you don't need to subscribe?

[Rashidi]

You don't need to subscribe., you just need to register..its free. Unless things have changed dramatically in the last few months.

[Rashidi]

Try this instead:

Download AI gives up.pkm

[jaycar]

I'm getting match file error from that pkm rash.

[Rashidi]

Loaded it and can't read it?

[Rashidi]

Will try some other way then

[jaycar]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

Loaded it and can't read it?

yeppa, corrupt perhaps?

The first link you posted keeps asking for a password, even if I'm logged in.

[Cleon]

I think its because Rash uses a different version of the game, so it wont work for normal users.

[Jablome]

I have WWSM08 and it said "Could not load this file."

[KvChaos]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

The mentality across the team looks ok to me..assuming you're not using farrows. Furthermore, you're playing with very low closing down instructions...any defensive line thats remotely normal is going to give you problems, you're making it worse with the fullbacks making forward runs.

Care to explain more about this?

So a likely scenario for my settings will be that the FB will be so far ahead that they won't have enough time to come back and plays defending?

I am still wonder how the two link-up together though. So if I have a defensive line of 10, what will the the effect when chosing a low closing down and a high closing down?

[blayhod]

i'll try and challenge my knowledge with answering this, and anyone can feel free to comment it of course.

so i think you're right about your fb's. they get too much up the field and, as you've set low closing down, when your team lose ball in opposition half fb's have a lot of distance to cover to get back in defensive position. (usually too late)

i'm not sure, but i guess you have set high defensive line. when you do this you should be sure your upfront players close down heavily so they prevent any quick direct passes as majority of your team is out of position.

to your last question. defensive line set to 10 is actually a middle so closing down should be thereabouts too.

when you play low D-line you don't want high closing down as your players will get out of position a lot and that will create lot of space in formation.

low D-line is generaly used in defensive or counterattacking formations as you let opposition think they control the game and then strike them with quick direct passing.

on the other hand, high d-line is generally used in attacking formations and is often combined with high width as you want a lot of space to break opposition with patient buildup and occasional thrrough ball.

there, please correct me if i'm wrong. cheers

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by jaycar:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

Loaded it and can't read it?

yeppa, corrupt perhaps?

The first link you posted keeps asking for a password, even if I'm logged in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My version is different and won't work with yours. Sorry unless i can turn it into a video file

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by blayhod:

i'll try and challenge my knowledge with answering this, and anyone can feel free to comment it of course.

so i think you're right about your fb's. they get too much up the field and, as you've set low closing down, when your team lose ball in opposition half fb's have a lot of distance to cover to get back in defensive position. (usually too late)

i'm not sure, but i guess you have set high defensive line. when you do this you should be sure your upfront players close down heavily so they prevent any quick direct passes as majority of your team is out of position.

to your last question. defensive line set to 10 is actually a middle so closing down should be thereabouts too.

when you play low D-line you don't want high closing down as your players will get out of position a lot and that will create lot of space in formation.

low D-line is generaly used in defensive or counterattacking formations as you let opposition think they control the game and then strike them with quick direct passing.

on the other hand, high d-line is generally used in attacking formations and is often combined with high width as you want a lot of space to break opposition with patient buildup and occasional thrrough ball.

there, please correct me if i'm wrong. cheers

exactly

[blayhod]

i'm sorry to be off topic, but an idea got across my mind.

maybe we could sum up some real tactical situations we've all got across and put them on the forum in some sort of test, then we could test our knowledge in some sort of football school work?

stupid?

[KvChaos]

So to avoid playing out of position, most of the time DC closing down will be low?

I am setting my FB to move a bit more forward so as to close the gap between FB and wingers. Will having a huge different betwen the two (say have a mentality of 5 for FB and 15 for wingers) affect the posession at mid? Since one is overly defensive while the other makes a run now and then..

[blayhod]

yes, CD for central defenders should always be set to own area at most as you don't want you'r last line of defense roaming around the pitch. you have your midfielders to do such things.

you're right once again. having your wide players set too far apart puts you in all sort of trouble.

depending on how you want your team to play you set the distance between them (mentality).

when tey are closer to each other passing becomes much fluent and easier to complete. unless you have really good CM's they'll struggle to find your wingers who are far up the pitch.

if you want your fullbacks to overlap, or be an attacking threat you can always set them on forward runs often (and switch with winger if he can play wb or fb) helps so their mentality can stay intact. this way you'll get a lot more cohesion in squad.

[KvChaos]

So... I finally understand a little about this. When I set my FB to move forward often, I should set their closing down to be somewhere around 10. With a small closing down it means that they will be running all the way back to own area before attempting a close-down. Is that the way they work?

[Rashidi]

When you have an attacking tactic..there will be several things characteristics that will be common...1..a normal to high dline, higher closing down cos you're further up the pitch..width, depends on the type of formation, and more players houdl make forward runs.

Try to make a balanced tactic first before venturing into either defensive one or really attacking ones. When I make a balanced formation, the goal is to grind out a result. And these are usually typified by players holding their ground and forcing someone to play their way around me. Of course if I'm faced with a better team then that tactic could backfire, so I suggest minor changes such as using the OI or to increase the use of closing down in midfield or tightmarking. Defenders can very well be told to tight mark every one they see.

[Old Git]

Just when the world was perfect, along came a database crash, a complete re-install, and a return to the first page of the thread to rebuild my tactic.

[blayhod]

i'd really like to make a balanced tactic, but i always endd up with an attacking forgetting about the defense.

what are the rules of thumb for a balanced one?

i guess patient positional play? but any indepth detail?

[blayhod]

Originally posted by KvChaos:

So... I finally understand a little about this. When I set my FB to move forward often, I should set their closing down to be somewhere around 10. With a small closing down it means that they will be running all the way back to own area before attempting a close-down. Is that the way they work?

i believe you're right

[jiunnshuan]

What should I do when my opponent is playing possession where their MCs are just knocking the ball around? I tried closing down the MCs and set my MCs and FCs to close down heavily but they're just chasing the ball foolishly. Should I lower down CD to own area and just hold position? Play defensively?

[Mitja]

Originally posted by jiunnshuan:

What should I do when my opponent is playing possession where their MCs are just knocking the ball around? I tried closing down the MCs and set my MCs and FCs to close down heavily but they're just chasing the ball foolishly. Should I lower down CD to own area and just hold position? Play defensively?

high D-line, defenetly. you can try to employ specific man mark on their MCs.

[Cleon]

Hard tackling can work too

[heron]

Originally posted by Burst:

great thread.. I'm not getting much luck with Ronaldo attacking the defence, I have him on:

RWB = often

FRW = often

CB = none

CF = 12

and i've even tried giving him an arrow up to the oppositions CB's but still he stands out on the wings not doing much at all. Any help would be great.

I'd put the FWR down to mixed (at least). You'd want him to use his speed and ball skills to run at the defenders when he has the ball from deep. On the creative freedom: you might want to lower that, so he'll stick to you instructions more (his flair and 'tries tricks' ppm will still make him a 'flair' player, or you might want to increase his CF if that's working better in your formation. There's a very good thread about CF in this forum somewhere. Just read it all.

As to the CB: if you're playing with fast, no-so-tall strikers - like Tevez and Rooney - I'd leave the CB to none, and put TTB on mixed. This way, he'll run at the defence, try to cut inside and shoot or give a pass to your strikers. If you have a tall striker, you can use the CB mixed or often, but this'll mean he'll try to go for the cross most of the time, and you won't see him cutting inside anymore. Especially in you also select 'cross from byeline'. Given a winger of Ronaldo's quality, I'd say that's a waste of talent, but it always depends on both the rest of the team, and your own playing style.

[Rashidi]

Adding on to Heron...creative freedom should be used sparingly. I prefer to have it on one player and as far as that is concerned, it'd probably be a central attacking MC who has good flair and creativity, pretty much a game winner on his own.

For the rest of the team I usually keep CF as low as 2-3. Droppin his FWR is a very good idea, if he has good dribbling skills let him beat the man. Its usually a good opening gambit.

By keeping mentalities at the backline low you keep possession, and by keeping ttbs minimal and focused only on players who can string hollywood passes you get a very good probing game going. By having his FWR on normal, you make the player turn his back to the defense and try to use his skill to beat the man.

Towards the end of the game or when you have reasonably stretched out the defense, you can stick someone with great OTB and set him to FWR often if he has good crossing and not really good at dribbles..

[Selim Munir]

em.. i just wanted to ask.. how can you tell what player is suited for which type of individual command like fwr nd things like that??

btw ive enjoyed this thread loads so far

[jaycar]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

My version is different and won't work with yours. Sorry unless i can turn it into a video file

Does that mean a beta patch by any chance?

Was it a straight 442 or a 4411 with a farrowed AMC?

[Rashidi]

i doubt it

[jaycar]

You...doubt that you are testing a beta patch??!

[Patrick27]

I need urgent help regarding my defense.

My CB's settings are

Mentality - Defensive (5)

Closing Down - Own Area (5)

FWR - Rarely

RWB - Rarely

Long Shots - Rarely

TTB - Rarely

Cross Ball Rarely

Marking - not sure this might be my problem

Any help at all would be beneficial.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Oeffel]

Hi all,

Great thread, really made me help to understand how to build a decent tactic.

Stil have some questions though, cause I need help.

I'm reading thru a lot of posts and topics in these forums but still this doesn't awake any superb managing-talents

Background

I've started a game with Sevilla (on the 8.0.2 patch) and at this moment I'm in november of the first season.

I've been quite succesfull in the transfermarket if I may say so.

I've sold Dani Alves and Luis Fabiano and brought in Diego, Cavani, David Luiz, Miguel Veloso, Rafinha and Sakho. I've also loaned Alex (DC from Chelsea) and Gourcuff. So taken this in consideration, I should manage to end in the top 4, together with Barca, Real and Valencia/Villarreal or something.

After the dealings in the transfermarket I was intending to play a flat 4-4-2 or a 4-1-2-1-2 in a home and a balance or control tactic.

Away from home I chose to play with 5 midfielders and a lone striker.

Tactics

Well first of all I will show you my record:

Record so far

As you can see I tend to perform reasonable or good in home matches and I perform awfull in away matches with the absolute terrible performance vs Deportivo.

In my home tactic there's one important thing bothering me.

The fact that my strikers hardly perform, let alone score. Kanoute averages a 6.70 and scored and assisted twice in 10 games. Cavani averages 6.78 and scored 3 assisting 0. The other goals mostly come from midfielders, corners or FK's.

So there's a striker problem. This also comes back in the other tactics so it has to do with the instructions I give these blokes.

Kanoute & Kerzhakov/Cavani

Any suggestions on the way that Kanoute and Kerzhakov or Cavani should cooperate????

Than there's the away tactic. The tactic I chose is a 4-1-4-1. What it mainly does is trying to keep the opposition from scoring but that actually is what it only does. I hardly create chances and every half time is like 'a drab match so far'.

I only won at Villarreal because they started to play 4-2-4 at a 1-2 scoreline. So I slotted two goals in the last 10 minutes, by closing down their 2 MC's.

What do I have to change to make sure that my team will break quickly and score from a counter? It's obviously the personal instructions, but what about my teaminstructions for starters??

Tactic outlay and away Team Instructions

And what should I pay special attention to in fine-tuning an away tactic on the personal instructions area. In other words which players in particular are important in an away tactic? Mostly wingers, the SC or the AMC?

If hese two things could be solved or improved than I'll be a happier man and can go on with my life. Cos losing 4-0 when you're not even being totally outplayed is annoying and frustrating.

Of course I'll be happy to give additional info or screenshots, if someone wishes.

Hope you guys can give advice. Thanx in advance!!

[janssm]

Been reading this thread since the start, and I must say I've found a lot of the things written very useful and informative.

However, talk keeps popping up about playing an offensive counter attacking game, with mixed passing at the back and direct in the middle, however I'm struggling to put together such a setup effectively for my Arsenal side, always reverting to the narrow/short/slow/high DL approach time and time again.

I'd like to play to try and hit teams on the break though, and I was wondering if someone could give me a few pointers as to how to accomplish this.

First of all my shape is a 4-2-3-1, with 2 MC's and pure AML wingers (no arrows, sometimes barrow for MCd)

Now I was wondering if 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 are more beneficial shapes for this style of play or if what I'm trying to accomplish is feasible with my current formation?

I assume a normal to low DL is good for this?

The idea is to release players into space as much as possible, as Arsenal, Man Utd or Lyon would do IRL. Any tips for setting up wingers, should they be mixed/rarely FWR to let them pick up the ball and run at the opposition or often to have them break off the opposing FB?

Also, who should be making through balls? I'm trying to have Fabregas starting counter attacks from a deep lying position, but I also want him to join the attack and make runs into the and be an option for the AMC/FC.

Is low creative freedom across the board good for this playstyle or do I need to give more to my attacking players, ie wingers/amc? I would've thought so, so they can find space better etc and break the pattern?

Now, what about width? I would think that for an offensive counter attacking style to work you'd need quite a bit of width? Or is it more feasible to play it through the middle?

I apologise if the answers to these questions are blatant and I'm just being stupid.

[martynkruis]

@ Rashidi_1

After reading this topic, i tryed to make a tactic.

I works good for me whit Fortuna Dusseldorf, i promoted from the regional liga to the 2 bundesliga.

But i'm wondering, if some can look at the tactic, maybe there can be inproved something.

Please take a look at the tactick and give a comment.

Sorry for my bad English.

tactick

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by Patrick27:

I need urgent help regarding my defense.

My CB's settings are

Mentality - Defensive (5)

Closing Down - Own Area (5)

FWR - Rarely

RWB - Rarely

Long Shots - Rarely

TTB - Rarely

Cross Ball Rarely

Marking - not sure this might be my problem

Any help at all would be beneficial.

Thanks,

Patrick

Try this...defensive for the centrebacks..6 for one and 2 for the other, everything else rare..closing down rarely..perhaps last notch before own area.

for fbs..closing down around 10, last notch of normal, fwr mixed, rwb mixed and ttb mixed

If you have an MC, then defensive mentality, fwr normal/none, closing down often and no TTB passing short. Leave the ttb to the other MC.

[Rashidi]

oeffel

Looked at the jpeg of your tactic, it looks fairly defensive, perhaps very defensive.

Several things you could do:

1. for midfield players close down around 14..that should be last notch of own area. Wingers can do it a bit more.

2. Have the fullbacks on forward runs, since you have a dm. Observe how the fullbacks do, and take off ttb so that pass the ball to the dm. Against the AI the DM can afford to play ttb.

3. I don't know about your wingers talents..but you could if they are good dribblers set them to FWR normal, if they have great pace and OTB, FWR often, TTB normal or none and cross ball none or mixed( read the earlier pages to find out why)

Sounds like you are not getting a lot of attacks down the flanks, look to release your fullbacks down the flanks as much as possible.

FWR for Renato and Diego are important. Don't have both of them on RWB often, this will lead to needless dribbles, have one do normal and an another on none, passsing set to short (1)

[Oeffel]

Thanx Rashidi!! Very helpfull and I guess very logical..

The team and personal instructions were both too emphasised on defence.

As proof: my first away game was vs Betis, the local derby. The result wasn't that pleasing, 1-1. But the play and overall dominance were!I had about 17 Shots and 16 on target.

They scored from a corner, so nothing to do bout that and received a red card. Perhaps the red card was a disadvantage for my side, because at away games I find it difficult vs ten men. But still. Probably a good away tactic now.

Any thoughts on the striker problem though? Still struggling up front, and had the same problem with Man Utd. Although Tevez and Rooney still performed satisfying, they weren't scoring or assisting very often. So it seems a tactical problem...

[Rashidi]

get the boys up to support and you should see your strikers getting in on the act more.

[Oeffel]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

get the boys up to support and you should see your strikers getting in on the act more.

Even on the home tactic where the team is supposed to hold possession the most and press the opposition back in their own half?

I find that both Cavani and Kanoute are being locked in in the middle.

Could the use of a targetman or upping the creative freedom on SC's or maybe even barrowing a striker create more space?

Cause I already play wide and have my fullbacks on crossing often. My wingers to mixed or rarely cause they're decent dribblers.

Maybe I'm just mixing things up or something here...

[Rashidi]

Try slowing down tempo and set timewasting to normal. Set the closing down of one of your strikers on normal.

I have never used targetmen, so i can't really comment on that. If your wingers have got good pace, then get them to either FWR or RWB often.

If you want them to run into space then get the MC to holdup ball, that way they pass to him, set off and he tries to find them again. Alternatively you can set them to FWR mixed and RWB often, if they are good dribblers and have great pace.

I sometimes don't like this when playing with fullbacks who are already set to go up and cross, you may end up seeing the fullback and winger holding hands and making small talk together on the flankss

[Old Git]

There's a lot of folks looking for help with a 4-4-2 and this has dropped to page 3! So an unabashed bump!