Fundamental Football Manager - Making that basic 442

[karan316]

Originally posted by Mitja:

your awey tactics seem very control minded to me. why don't you try a more counter-attacking style? don't bother with possesion. I allways play direct(at the back) mixed(up front)/fast style and I don't have any problem with possesion. my counter tactic looks allmost the same as attacking/balanced, with these changes;

- less FR for full backs and wingers (often->mixed)

- less FR for both MC's (mixed->rarely for MCd, often->mixed for MCa)

- mentality for strikers ( STa from att->team, STd from team->defensive)

- closing down from whole pitch-> low own half

- lower D line

- ticked counter attack

of course these are just some basics. I tweak my tactics like CD and D line depending on opponent. I usually start my awey matches with counter tactics and then switch to balanced and even attacking style. all these 3 tactics are based on pretty much same team instructions likementality, tempo, CF... it's individual instructions that change for different styles. the idea behind that those 3 tactics don't differ too much, is a "team style of play". and I'm sure this is quite how AI plays.

then I hava also "park bus", "possesion", "all out attack" tactics, which are fundamentaly different from those 3 styles-tactics.

I am quite wary of giving my defenders direct passing as they arent exactly the best on the ball. And both my MCs are excellent passers so I want them to see as much of the ball. Also with just one up top, the defenders would have less of a target to hit with their direct balls.

I already do most of the other changes you mentioned (FR, mentality, CD, DL) but not the counter attack as I have had mixed results in my limited experimentation of that option, as described in the post above.

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by karan316:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

I'm going to try and make a 4231 and see if the instructions can translate to yours.

I have 2 shapes currently I'm thinking of..one is different from yours in that the 2 AMs on the left and right get moved to the AML and AMR slots..and then are giving farrows to the FC slots.

I need to balance the closing down in midfield to make sure they hold their shape when defending. Will employ short 1 touch passing and play with a narrow width, high up the pitch. If wolves can do it anyone can

I tried that but it didnt work for me, as it effectively became a 3 man strike force when we had the ball, and the midfielders didnt have enough options to pass to. Basically the two outer AMs were always too close to the defenders. I find it better when they have space to receive the ball, turn, and attack.

As for my 4-2-3-1, I do use a different shape sometimes. For eg., when I have Saivet playing, I use him as an AMR to utilise his pace and dribbling ability better, while Vukcevic plays as an AML but with an inward side arrow to utilise his excellent long shots and passing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll need to try this out a bit more with my wolves side..what do you ideally want to see? Aside from winning of course

[Law_Man]

Hi Rashidi, great thread I like the way you simplify things. Is there any chance you could give some tips on how to create a 4-1-2-1-2 (diamond) tacic? I mean the one with two MCs not two wingers. There doesn't seem to be much out there at the moment in terms of people having success with a formation like this. Back in the old days I always used to play this formation but I just can't get it to work. It's either too narrow or two wide, and although in theory I should dominate the midfield and possession I don't, and my strikers often seem isolated. I'm pretty confident with tactics employing wingers and have had success that way, but I'd like to create a solid, defensive, possession based 4-1-2-1-2 in the Italian style if its possible. Thanks for all the time and effort you put in Cheers.

[bluenose1]

Law-Man

I have tried this to play this way in the past (DM-2MCs-Am and 2 Strikers with sarrows) and noticed possession was v.low

may seem obvious but i would play 'through the middle' and have both MC on mixed forward runs

also put the FB's on no through ball to encourage them to pass to the DMC and then have the midfield quartet on short passing to encourage them to keep possession between themselves rather than move the ball forward too quickly.

let me know if you have any success

what level you playing at?

will be interesting to hear rash's thoughts on this formation

[Law_Man]

Think I've got something working. I'm playing with newcastle in first season as a decent team to test with. Just won 2-0 against Bolton.

Newcastle stats:

Shots 17

On target 8

Possession 52%

Corners 6

Free Kicks 30!

Throw ins 16

Fouls 4

Offsides 2

Pass Completion 78%

Crosses completed 18%

Bookings 1

Bolton stats:

Shots 4

Shots on target 1

Possession 48%

Corners 2

Free kicks 6

Fouls 26

Offsides 4

Pass completed 66%

Cross completed 20%

Will continue testing.

[Rashidi]

I finally got your 4231 to work... karan316 the key lies in the passing instructions upfront and in the closing down instructions and in the width of your formation, like I thought.

Go for it. As you prob guessed. I won't give the exact settings cos I dunno your players...remember to:

Fullbacks have to attack..or you don have enough options.

The group upfront needs to work together and work the ball around, but need to keep things simple.

You will put continual pressure on the defense with the right settings home and away.

[veston pants]

Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by philwood:

How about someone designs a 442 that works consistently throughout the season. I'm not saying wins every game but if you have a superior team then you really should be beating Wigan at home.

I would be very interested to see if the "gurus" are able to achieve a consistent 442 as in my opinion FM08 is not suited to the formation which is a major flaw in the game.

A consistent 4-4-2 that is the same, every match, with no tweaks, and nearly always wins? I certainly couldn't do it. I very much doubt anyone else could, simply because the engine doesn't work that way. You need to tailor the tactic to the match, either by pre-match tweaking, designating opposition instructions, or loading a tactic pre-designed for the situation.

However, a 4-4-2 set that works. Been there, done that. Philwood, if you can't reconceptualise the game as at the very minimum requiring a home and away approach, you won't get very far. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree with this statement, and I'm glad that this is the case. Gone are the days of setting up your tactic and then going and doing something else, just to come back for half time scores and have beaten the opposition by a cricket score.

[Rashidi]

will post some screenshots tomorrow of the tactic and results with wolves. (4231)

[veston pants]

Just to add to the discussion as to what is wrking for you.

When I play CA football with 442 I have 1cm set to slightly defensive mentality but closing down 2-3 notches into often and the other cm attacking, rwb/fwr often but closing down own half. The winger nearest the attacking cm I also use as a ball winner so have him closing down often aswell, the other winger always used as an attacking outlet. This gives my midfield a balance which wrks well as the 2 attacking players tend to drop slightly deeper when I don't have the ball, which gives cover for the 2 ballwinners in the midfield.

I also use a target man, and like him to wrk the backline of the oppos defence so I close down often, have him normal mentality with fwr/rwb + cross ball mixed and cross from byline. My 2nd striker is slighly more attack minded but closing down own half, which means that he will be making those telling runs through backlines from deep without the need for farrows or barrows. I also like to have him cross from byline and aim for target man, I'm amazed how many assists he has gotten this way.

[karan316]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

I finally got your 4231 to work... karan316 the key lies in the passing instructions upfront and in the closing down instructions and in the width of your formation, like I thought.

Go for it. As you prob guessed. I won't give the exact settings cos I dunno your players...remember to:

Fullbacks have to attack..or you don have enough options.

The group upfront needs to work together and work the ball around, but need to keep things simple.

You will put continual pressure on the defense with the right settings home and away.

You're right about the fullbacks, which is why mine always have front arrows, and full forward runs.

My closing down instructions - own area for the back 4, own half (less than middle) for the two midfielders, and often for the 3 AMs and SC. I want my back 4 to stay in position, and when I had my midfielders on 10 or so they were getting drawn out onto the flanks so I reduced their CD. Are your instructions any similar?

Width is something that I am quite confused about to be honest and probably one of the reasons why my tactic hasnt worked as well as it could have. I usually go wider at home and slightly narrower away as a rule of thumb. I am afraid that if I play narrow width then all the play will be concentrated through the center of the park which might become easier to defend as the AI will also start playing narrow and deep. What are you doing with your width?

One last question - did you come up against 4-5-1 (with the DM, two MCs, AML/R and SC). I think that formation is really hard to play against with my 4-2-3-1 because the AI takes advantage of the fullbacks pushing up, and also the AI's DMC is usually shadowing my AMC who is obviously vital to my tactic. Interesting to hear what adjustments you made, if any.

[karan316]

Another away game, another defeat, this time to newly promoted Middlesbrough.

Have tried some of the ideas from this thread and they have made us even better at home, but I just cannot seem to buy a win away

I've played about what 15 seasons of FM08 now and still for the life of me cant figure out a consistent way of getting results away from home. I think I've tried everything under the sun.

Fed up. Going to bed now

[Rashidi]

karan...hmm you need to ask yourself several questions, and this should help you set it up right.

Width..useful for creating options...but why stay wide? You have 3 players set up in a narrow strikeforce upfront, and if you want to play short...setting up a wide formation is counter-intuitive.

You have a lot of players in the other half..5 to be precise. You have fullbacks who potentially can have farrows and have to go up. Logically speaking you have a formation thats a conundrum. Think about the closing down now. With so many players up there, how should the closing down instructions be set up for the team.

Remember I suggest 2 ways of setting up a tactic, if this had been a 442 then its ok to sit back with "own area" but this is not a 442. My closing down instructions are nothing like yours. If you have a wide formation then, it makes sense to have low closing down, so you don't go and create gaps all over the place...but I'm not suggesting wide.

If you are playing home and away, don't adjust your width just yet. Look at only your defensive line. Adjust that while looking at the game and deciding whether your fullbacks have too far to chase.

You need to look at your closing down settings and your width.

[jaycar]

I've used a 4231 through the versions of the game, it seems to me that for the barrowed CM's at least they need to close down to around highish own half. They just seem to sit back to much on own area.

[Rashidi]

jaycar you're on the right track. In fact the closing down instructions for quite a few players need to be in that band. Personally I have mine set quite high there. Since they sit so deep when defending they can easily be set to a team mentality along with the rest. They are natural anchors. Any play barrowed to a DMC position becomes an anchor of sorts, you need to make sure he has the right attributes to succeed.

[jaycar]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

jaycar you're on the right track. In fact the closing down instructions for quite a few players need to be in that band. Personally I have mine set quite high there. Since they sit so deep when defending they can easily be set to a team mentality along with the rest. They are natural anchors. Any play barrowed to a DMC position becomes an anchor of sorts, you need to make sure he has the right attributes to succeed.

Indeed, the thing I like about this formation is the passing options for the FB's the CM/DMC's give, it seems far better than in a 442. Great when you are using short passing.

[Rashidi]

The league table thus far using the approaches I've explained. Its the first season for Wolves and I've made 3 purchases. 1 DM, 1 keeper and a fullback

League Table

Thus far after 15 games I've only conceded 8 goals, in the championship which is ok. My testing around with tactics in the last 3 games produced 3 draws which snapped my winning streak.

The 4231 is not a difficult formation to set up, mine is set narrow. With the right closing down instructions, you will swallow the opposing team if they are weaker than you.

[karan316]

Interesting thoughts...

Firstly, in terms of formation, how are you guys setting it up?

Secondly, closing down - I initially had my MCs on around 10, but I found that they were getting drawn out onto the flanks to close down the wingers and leaving big holes in the middle of the park. I still dont have them on 'own area', they're on about 8. My defenders are all on 4-5 though as I dont want them to get pulled out of position. I hate how sometimes the DC will go to close down a midfielder and leave a simple through ball on for the striker he was supposed to be marking. Havent you guys faced this problem if you give high closing down to the defenders? As for my attacking 4, they are on closing down always to put pressure in the opponents half.

[Rashidi]

I'm going to park the 4231 now..keep it and create a 41212 the narrow diamond that lawman was talking about. That formation doesn't look too different from the set up for another tactic I have so it should be fairly straightforward.

Lawman Why are you so concerned that its too narrow? It should be since you obviously want attacking fullbacks.

My idea is to have rampaging fullbacks, those that go down the length of the pitch cos home base is protected by a trio of players. The 2 MCs will arrive late in the box allowing for added presssure. It should be possible to dominate possession, though this would mean you need to play high up the pitch.

Off the top of my head I'd consider farrowing the fullbacks. Not too worried about the 5 in defense. The question is how do I want to play the MCs. If you sarrow or barrow them they become hybird players. They go up the wings or they run up the centre.

I have an idea in my head...and will give it a whirl with Wolves.

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by karan316:

Interesting thoughts...

Firstly, in terms of formation, how are you guys setting it up?

Secondly, closing down - I initially had my MCs on around 10, but I found that they were getting drawn out onto the flanks to close down the wingers and leaving big holes in the middle of the park. I still dont have them on 'own area', they're on about 8. My defenders are all on 4-5 though as I dont want them to get pulled out of position. I hate how sometimes the DC will go to close down a midfielder and leave a simple through ball on for the striker he was supposed to be marking. Havent you guys faced this problem if you give high closing down to the defenders? As for my attacking 4, they are on closing down always to put pressure in the opponents half.

Your formation is too wide...go even narrower...push your defensive line..if its anything less than 10 its too low..and make sure the closing down of the fullbacks is close down own half

[jaycar]

That formation can also swallow the opposition, but it's very vulnerable vs a 433, with the fullbacks reigned in it can be a struggle.

[Rashidi]

use the AMs to close down their fullbacks tight..that...and close down their anchor midfielder so he doesn't have time to pass the ball or use of the MCs to specific manmark him, that should take him out of the game

[jaycar]

Sorry, I was talking about the narrow diamond

[jaycar]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

will post some screenshots tomorrow of the tactic and results with wolves. (4231)

*Cough*

[Rashidi]

I'll do it in one go..for a few formations...I might..

[Patrick27]

Rashidi1, I see that you have moved onto another formation. However I'm having awful problems with my 4-4-2. I can't win at all now. I have read your great thread but just can not take your pointers and suggestions to work for my Sunderland team. I'm playing in season 2023.

My Away instruction are :

Normal

Short passing

Normal - Slow tempo

Normal CF

Closing Down Normal (10)

D-Line (10) Normal

Normal Width

CB's

Mentality Defensive

Closing Down Own Area (5)

CF - Little (5)

TTB - Mixed

FB's

Normal mentality

Closing Down (12)

FWR mixed

TTB mixed

MCd

Normal mentality

CD (10)

FWR mixed

Passing Direct (12)

TTB often

MCa

Mentality Attacking (14)

Passing - Short

FWR - Often

TTB - Often

CD - Normal (10)

Wingers

Attacking mentality (14)

CD - Whole Picth (14)

FWR - Often

RWB - Often

TTB - Often

ST

Attacking mentality (14)

CD - Whole Pitch (14)

FWR - Mixed

RWB - Mixed

TTB - Mixed

Sorry about this but no matter what I do I can't fix the problems. Maybe you can help, if not I understand

Thanks,

Patrick

[Old Git]

Patrick,

Just a couple from a quick look at what you have set up.

Tempo: Opposition is likely at home to be playing high tempo closing down, going too slow means players get caught in possession.

CB's and through balls. Not often a good thing, unless they are particularly great passers of the ball, likely to result in loss of possession.

FB's: With the higher closing down setting and forward runs, you are going to leave the flanks exposed as they get caught out of position. Try bringing those settings closer to the CB's and reduce TTB's.

TTB's in general. Only a good idea, especially away from home, when executed by your better passers, probably the two CMs

CM(D) Get his settings closer to the back four, keeping a tighter defensive unit, allows you to have the front five that bit more attacking.

And a liberal use of OI with specific marking strategies etc. There are a few posts with various peoples suggestions earlier in the thread.

Hope this is of use.

[Patrick27]

Thanks for the help Old Git. Yes I've read through this thread a few times. Great read, just a pity that I can't seem to get them working for me. You seem to have become very good at making a 4-4-2 tactic with Zaragoza (sp). Well done.

OI never seem to get these right either.

I always tight mark the two FC's.

Tight mark and close down Wingers. Weaker foot possibly as well.

CM's tight mark and close down MCd.

FB's I'm not sure about. Maybe close down always.

Thats what I do with the OI in a 4-4-2.

Maybe this is wrong and you could point me in the right direction.

I'll try playing a game now with your pointers and will get back to you regarding the result.

I'll probably lose but I'll have a go anyway.

If you think of anything else that I'm doing wrong then maybe you could help me again.

If you're too busy with other stuff then don't worry about.

Again thanks for the help.

Patrick

[Patrick27]

Played the game and lost 1-0.

Don't know what to do now. Keep on trying I suppose.

[hyrule_king]

I've tweaked my 442 for the new season , not tested it out just yet. Here are my tweaks;

Dropped one of the strikers back to amc with farrow to cf position.

Changed mentsality of ml and mr to just above normal rather than high end attacking.

Moved the closing down of the two cd's to own half from full pitch.

Will post results. Hopefully i should stop conceding so many goals , although i'm scoring plenty.

[Old Git]

Patrick, OI can be a real struggle to get right.

The tightmarking instruction, IMO, relates to a zone, so if he's in a players zone he gets tight-marked by that player. Easy Peasy.

Closing Down Always, IMO, gives an instruction to the team to close a player down as soon as he gets the ball, thus 1 or 2 players will rush to him, leaving a gap or hole to be exploited.

I prefer to tightmark the front six and have tight marking ticked on each player, back four and CM. I also shuffle the opposition to the weaker foot. This is appears to work well, and if you remove farrows from your own wingers, they can be used to assist in doubling up on wingers and CMs. However a rampaging AM remains a problem and one or two suggestions are floating around these pages.

FB's. Since my two forwards and wingers are closing down all over the pitch, I tend not to issue an individual instruction to an opposition fullback, other than to shuffle him to the wrong foot so to speak, Left for a Rightback, Right for a Leftie, hopefully forcing a misplaced punt up the park.

As for success with Zaragoza, still haven't quite sussed an away 4-4-2 that I can use form start to finish, so what I am attempting is a two pronged approach away from home, depending on opposition. Using my home 442 against easier opposition and dropped one of the forwards to DM against the Barca's of the world away from home.

Have also just begun to use these tactics in our clan game and have had success against Depo and Valencia, using both tactics. Both teams managed by humans, so chuffed. In my offline game, beat Barca 3-1 at home with the 4-4-2 and the OI instructions worked a treat!

Would really love to get the 4-4-2 working consistently away from home though!

[Patrick27]

Thanks again.

I played a second away game there and lost 3-0. There not the best opposition either! On top of that they hit the post 3 times and had a pentaly saved. I'm really bad at this game. I think I'll have to take a break from it as it's putting me into a bad mood now.

All the best with you seasons. I'm sure you will do grand.

[hyrule_king]

Tight marking for Defenders and One MC seems to wrk well. Two clean sheets in a row. Only two shots on goal each game for the opposition and the team seems to be playing more fluid football.

Thanks for all the help on the thread so far.

[Old Git]

If you've been on a losing streak before all the tweaking, their moral is going to be low, and it will take time for the changes to take effect. An often used trick if you like is to try and get some friendly matches against your youth team, usually ends up in a severe boost in morale.

[Old Git]

Patrick. Had a thought, what you can do if the opposition are matched up in the middle of the park is man-mark their CMs with your CM's. In conjunction with the tight-marking, this can severely limit their ability to play the ball.

[Patrick27]

Thanks guys for the advice on OI. Your thoughts on OI instructions seem spot on altought it will probably take me some time to know how to use them correctly.

I might try it to play FM later on. I'll be sure to take your advice on board.

Thanks again.

[Patrick27]

Sorry, just a quick question about marking.

Do you use Zonal marking or Man marking away from home. In my case, I use tight man marking on the back four.

Am I doing the right thing or is it wrong?

[Old Git]

Originally posted by Patrick27:

Sorry, just a quick question about marking.

Do you use Zonal marking or Man marking away from home. In my case, I use tight man marking on the back four.

Am I doing the right thing or is it wrong?

My global is always zonal marking, but player instructions can vary depending on opposition line-up and formation. If you are up against one of the AM led formations, you may find that the AM and the CF switch, so man marking them pulls your defenders about, with that one I'd go tight-marking, but be prepared to change if you see your players getting dragged about. A good one is to view extended highlights at normal speed in the early stages to check on the movement or otherwise.

[Patrick27]

Cheers, played a away game there. Drew 2-2 which is an improvment for me. There goals came from a pentaly and a break away goal.

I started with Man Marking in my team instructions as well as having tight marking ticked as well. I tight marked the forward six as you suggested and it was a lot better than my previous attempts at OI.

Will keep trying anyways,

Thanks for the help.

[Patrick27]

Don't know what's gone wrong. Won 5 games on the trot

Suddenly, my team are limiting opposition shots on target. Getting more chances. Not totally outplaying the other teams yet

I put down my mini revival down to Old Git . A big thankyou mate. Fair play to you.

I think I have a good template to work from now, just need to make some small changes to improve my attacking aspect of my game. Possibly dominating possesion around the midfield area.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Old Git]

Originally posted by Patrick27:

Don't know what's gone wrong. Won 5 games on the trot

Suddenly, my team are limiting opposition shots on target. Getting more chances. Not totally outplaying the other teams yet

I put down my mini revival down to Old Git . A big thankyou mate. Fair play to you.

I think I have a good template to work from now, just need to make some small changes to improve my attacking aspect of my game. Possibly dominating possesion around the midfield area.

Thanks,

Patrick

No worries mate, however my Zara team have gone in reverse at the start of the third season. Now winning away from home and losing at home, using the same 442! So bizarre!

[Patrick27]

Most of the wins are away from home. I played one game at home. The other teams gameplan was to sit really deep and counter. No farrows on the wingers.

They had 62% possesion which I don't like to see. I got won chance for the game and scored.

A really poor game. I think I need to work on home tactic some more.

I'm sure you'll turn it around yet. Do you use free-roles in any of your tactics?

[Rashidi]

Nice to see the thread developing.

I do agree with Old Git and think that his approach to OI is indeed extremely logical and should work. Especially against most teams

It's also worth it to add that you can create a whole set of formations. Don't think that width = defensive. You can still have a very attacking formation with narrow width. The most important considerations to make are closing down.

If you want to sit back and soak, close down own area. If you want to take it to the AI then close down own half. They have their risks. Whatever it is at the end of the day you need to judge how much closing down is happening in midfield by looking at the 2D screen.

One other thing, throw ins and corners need to be set up right. Why defend with all your players..leave 3 up or even 4, if you defenders are poor in manmarking they are just going to give you more problems..the AI could assign them to a player they can't possibly mark. And esp throw ins..remember to adjust your throw in routines for left and right. I see a lot of tactics that people put up and they all show a lack of understanding on how to make the throw in routine even more deadly.

[Old Git]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

One other thing, throw ins and corners need to be set up right. Why defend with all your players..leave 3 up or even 4, if you defenders are poor in manmarking they are just going to give you more problems..the AI could assign them to a player they can't possibly mark.

Rashidi. Would you leave the strikers up the park at set-pieces, or the diminutive wingers. Bearing in mind you most strikers are over 6ft, I am toying with bringing them back and leaving the 5ft 9 wingers with pace up top. This is something I have only recently considered, and may be worth consideration for those conceding at corners etc.

And esp throw ins..remember to adjust your throw in routines for left and right. I see a lot of tactics that people put up and they all show a lack of understanding on how to make the throw in routine even more deadly.

Never really looked at throw-ins seriously in the past, and even now, I'm thinking, unless you are changing the options every five minutes, you can only really have two, one for either side of the pitch and to be honest, seems a little weak. Just my opinion, as I say, I have not really been one to look at that aspect in any depth, so if folks have thoughts, ideas, I'd love to hear them.

[jaycar]

Rash, when you say...

My OI changes to manmark the solo striker

Does this mean specific man marking?

[Rashidi]

Yes i do that quite frequently.

[Golden_Team]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

The league table thus far using the approaches I've explained. Its the first season for Wolves and I've made 3 purchases. 1 DM, 1 keeper and a fullback

League Table

Thus far after 15 games I've only conceded 8 goals, in the championship which is ok. My testing around with tactics in the last 3 games produced 3 draws which snapped my winning streak.

The 4231 is not a difficult formation to set up, mine is set narrow. With the right closing down instructions, you will swallow the opposing team if they are weaker than you.

hello rash, can you upload screenshots yours 4231 formation please?

Becouse i want to create my own 4231

thanx a lot

[Rashidi]

Its the orthodox shape. No difference from the games one

[jaycar]

Rash, have you any tips for getting an AMC and lone ST to work properly? I must be the only one struggling to get them to be effective

Current settings are:

Both on Attk mentality..the AMC has high CF, mixed FWR, Often RWB and TTB, cross ball mixed...

ST has low CF, RWB and FWR often, mixed long shots, Rarely TTB and cross ball.

Both in conventional AMC and AT positions.

They also swap positions.

[Rashidi]

Logically speaking they need the same instructions if you want them to swap.

I don't like giving them swap instructiions unless they both can play those positions. There are so many ways you can.

1. Playmaker - Fast Striker (here playmaker unleashes striker)

AMC - Direct Passing, TTB often, RWB mixed, Normal CF, low longshots, cross ball. FWR mixed

Striker - Set to Targetman/Run Onto ball/FWR often/TTB normal/Passing short or mixed

2. Playmaker - Tall striker (here playmaker makes late runs as well so they work together)

AMC - Direct Passing, TTB often, RWB often, Normal CF, low longshots/FWR often

Striker - Set to TM, HUB ball, 1 passing/of Direct passing.

You don't want them to do stupid things like cross ball....so keep passing focus through the middle

[jaycar]

thats brilliant, thanks, I'll give those a try