Fundamental Football Manager - Making that basic 442

[lam]

Hi Rashid,

looks like a great post, i am going to give it a bash tonight.

I have a few questions,i know you are away, but someone else might be able to help me here.

1. Does a flat 442 mean no farrows or does it mean its not a diamond 442 (eg)?

2. From what i can see, you have a home and away version of this tactic. do you have farrows on your wingers in either version? If so what length.

I have no forgotten the other questions, but they will come to me.

thanks

lee

[dragonbhoy]

Everyone...what do you prefer 'mixed' or 'down both flanks'?

Initially since I like the use of tricky wingers I obviously thought 'DBF' would be obvious choice, but it seemed as if sometimes my team were trying to force it down the wings. I switched to mixed passing and it was brilliant. My wingers still got plenty of the ball but the play was not as robotic and predictable. Agree, disagree?

[Old Git]

Originally posted by lam:

Hi Rashid,

looks like a great post, i am going to give it a bash tonight.

I have a few questions,i know you are away, but someone else might be able to help me here.

1. Does a flat 442 mean no farrows or does it mean its not a diamond 442 (eg)?

For me, when I refer to a "Flat 442" I mean exactly that farrowed or otherwise. Farrows indicate positions players move to when you have possession, when the opposition has it is is "flat"

2. From what i can see, you have a home and away version of this tactic. do you have farrows on your wingers in either version? If so what length.

My tactics are still in testing, so I am experimenting with either or, but Rashidi made a good point earlier that in order to keep it tight away from home, he prefers no farrows. See his formation from earlier.

I have no forgotten the other questions, but they will come to me.

thanks

lee

Hope this helps.

[Old Git]

Originally posted by dragonbhoy:

Everyone...what do you prefer 'mixed' or 'down both flanks'?

Initially since I like the use of tricky wingers I obviously thought 'DBF' would be obvious choice, but it seemed as if sometimes my team were trying to force it down the wings. I switched to mixed passing and it was brilliant. My wingers still got plenty of the ball but the play was not as robotic and predictable. Agree, disagree?

This would depend actually if I am up against a 3-man defence or not, and whether I am home or away, but in theory focussing passing into one area, in my opinion, may reduce the defence/midfield "outball" options.

[aston_martin]

Rash, although not using it in a 4-4-2, I would reccomend (sp) your closing down tips (the own area stuff) to anybody using any formation. I'm currently using this combined with tight markin in certain areas of the pitch and it results in so many opposing mistakes its mad. They either misplace a pass becuase their teammates are so closley marked, or they hoof it onto my CB's head

[lam]

Hi,

Old Got - thanks for the replies. I am trying it out now.

I am finding something very usfull and would like to mention it here. I normaly play in extended highlights (sorry .. just dont have the time for full game). I play in one click fast and i have just started using the pause button after every pass (takes a while), but boy does it show you whats what based on your instructions. It breaks it down, you can work out whats happened and look at theoptions available to the player on the ball. i would really recomend trying it.

Another question though .... my interpretation of Rashid1 instructions was to have the closing down as far to the right keeping in 'Own Half' (13), however i saw that someone posted about having it to the left (6 or 7), the comment i saw was not corrected anywhere, so i am now unsure as to which its supposed to be. I have played 1 game with it at 13 so i may stick with that as it seemed to work well, however, i have restarted the season (as i had not updated patch) so my team are still gelling,

Please advise.

Lee

[Mitja]

Originally posted by lam:

Hi,

Old Got - thanks for the replies. I am trying it out now.

I am finding something very usfull and would like to mention it here. I normaly play in extended highlights (sorry .. just dont have the time for full game). I play in one click fast and i have just started using the pause button after every pass (takes a while), but boy does it show you whats what based on your instructions. It breaks it down, you can work out whats happened and look at theoptions available to the player on the ball. i would really recomend trying it.

Another question though .... my interpretation of Rashid1 instructions was to have the closing down as far to the right keeping in 'Own Half' (13), however i saw that someone posted about having it to the left (6 or 7), the comment i saw was not corrected anywhere, so i am now unsure as to which its supposed to be. I have played 1 game with it at 13 so i may stick with that as it seemed to work well, however, i have restarted the season (as i had not updated patch) so my team are still gelling,

Please advise.

Lee

this is how I see and use closing down.

- high closing down. the point is to get back possesion as soon as possibile via interception, tackle, opponents mistake...

- for a high closing down setup you need to have player's capable of doing it-> stamina, work rate, team work, agression, decisions, anticipation are esential. zonal marking is recommended.

- not much point of high closing down on opponents, who are of far better quality. they'll find the way to punish you, easily.

- when opponents are playing slow/time wasting tactics, high closing down is about the only solution to counter it.

- low closing down. the point of it is to stay in narrow defensive shape with man behind the ball (low D line). more cautios aproach. positioning and anticipation are esential. tight man marking+low D line for very rigorous defensive tactic.

- closing down is a manager tendency. some like to put pressure early on other's preffer to sit back more. high closing down is far more demanding and hard to play all 90min long.

- most vulnerable spots in flat 4-4-2 for high closing down are central positions becouse there is no back up once your player's are beaten. consider that, when seting your MC's and DC's closing down.

[Mitja]

forgot to add.

- closing down works together with D-line. a basic aproach would be;

> low closing down + low D line (1+1)- "park bus"

> high CD + low Dl (20+1)- "defend deep- get back but close down all the way"

**this setup is a little odd and extreme, not used to often**

> low CD + high Dl (1+20)- "push up- defend as far up, but don't close down"

> high CD + high Dl (20+20)- "kick their arse, gung ho, nothing to loose style"

[lam]

hi.... more question.

I am playing as tottenham and have robbie and berb up front in the big man / small man combo.

I have set up as described above with robbie playing in an AMC role. Currently he has a farrow and fwr runs, rwb mix and ttb mix.

should i have him with these settings and a farrow or should it be one or the other?

I have played a few games and messed around with it, but i am playing friendlies at the momenet and the competition is at varying levels so i can not see the difference.

Can someone please assist.

many thanks

Lee

[lam]

Mitja,

thanks for the help on the closing down question. Your answer is making me do the work and to play it and see what happens. which is a good way to learn.

thanks

Lee

[Rashidi]

Remember closing down has nothing to do with intensity, just where you do it. And its very closely linked to defensive line. The higher your defensive line, the earlier players move out to engage a threat.

I still have tactics that use a staggered closing down strategy the logic is fairly simple. Players upfront close down all over the pitch so they get to be an extra line of defense. If a player is an AM he actually supports the defense.

In defense I generally employ closing down in own area which to me means that players will go back, closer to their defensive line before they make challenges. This means that a formation tends to hold shape better thus making it harder for the AI to find its targets.

Against some really bizarre formations eg.424, 4231 you could make it a tough night for the AI by :

424,,,tightmarking the wingfowards and closing down the 2 MCs heavily.

4231..the lone forward gets manmarked.

If you keep your closing down within own area, they need to string together some really quick fast passes to make it through. So if you think the threat is coming from the flanks, specific manmark the flank threat with the corresponding player.

lam there's nothing better than trying something out. Those settings appear fine to me, the loneman can be set up on FWR none, and TTB often as well, that way he can play one/twos with Robbie.

The goal of this thread is not to tell people how to play in a certain way, but to give them ideas so that they can go try out new things on their own.

[Mitja]

maybe one more thing. I tweak closing down and D linethe most of all team instructions.

I tweak pre match, depending on opponent's attacking force; fast and skilfull-> deeper D line and very low closing down, strong, not fast-> push up more, close down also.

in game tweaking; if winning, no need to close down on whole pitch. if loosing and opp are playing possesional style, you need to push up and close down more.

again these are some basic ideas. there are much more factors that need to be considered.

[Old Git]

Following up on something Rashidi said, some people advocate the more attacking of the two CMs to close down all over the pitch, on the basis that they are an attacking player. I suggest looking at this setting carefully in extended/full highlights, pausing as previously described as you will see the effects this has. One CM remains tight to the back-line whilst the other can be passed around, and expose the back-line un-necessarily.

Personally, I set both CM's to closing down 2-3 clicks below centre, just above the CB's own area setting, keeping a solid back-six, if you like, closing off central areas. Accompanied with tight-marking of opposition wingers, this massively restricts the space inside and you can watch the opposition go in reverse so to speak.

Now, as a purist, I don't mind losing to a nicely crafted opposition goal, where the players have done their level best tactiacally, and it can be seen that the goal in fact out the top drawer, but when I see it's my tactical instructions that have caused it, it is most frustrating!

Having now moved into the 2nd season of my Zaragoza 442 test, the start of the season has been a frutration, 3 straight wins at home, including a 6-1 thrashing of Real Sociedad, however, the away set-up is still not quite how I want it. Spent 3 hours replaying the same game, using different variants of what was discussed in an earlier thread, until, two major factors hit me. One, the team itself was made of 8 new players, and it was the game before a midweek Euro tie. Might just be me, but I always seem to have poor results before midweek cup-ties. Have done since CM Italia, I just accept it now. A serious relook at the away setup is requred.

I am glad people are seeing that the use of OI and team talks does have a significant effect, some may argue too significant, but are we managers or game players?

[Rashidi]

The general theme of the thread seems to gravitate around several interesting points, and these are my central tenets when I make any tactic now.

1. You need to keep your defensive shape irregardless of how attacking you choose to be. To do that closing down is an important component of the whole setup.

2. While I do agree with Mitja that an attacking setup can include heavy closing down, and that this could work. It does create stresses on your team, and you need to be aware of these. With good sides you won't notice it as much, but in those tight matches or ones where you are the overwhelming underdog, high closing down can drag you around.

I do like Old Git's approach, which is to set up one MC on a slightly higher closing down then the other one, and if you have set up the MCd on no forward runs then he does hang back more and is closer to the backline. I do not recommend high closing down for the attacking MC.

I took this set up and went and made a variant of the 442, this time farrowing the fullbacks, barrowing the 2DCs farrowing the wingers to make the tactic look like a 424. and this worked as well.

There are many variants to a 442 and these work

[Rashidi]

With my gf lookin over my shoulder and before she denies me *ahem*.... the setup works well with any back four formation, just finetuned 3 other back 4 tactics of mine, and I managed to hold it together.

My side is a weak Championship side expected to get relegated but are holding their heads high in the upper tier of Fizzypop Land. By keeping our shape together we are forcing teams to pass their way around us, and without good targets they struggle. I recall my last match when the AI switched to a 424, same thing happened, of course I tweaked the OI to handle the AI.

[Old Git]

Originally posted by Old Git:

Personally, I set both CM's to closing down 2-3 clicks below centre, just above the CB's own area setting, keeping a solid back-six, if you like, closing off central areas. Accompanied with tight-marking of opposition

wingers,, this massively restricts the space inside and you can watch the opposition go in reverse so to speak.

Marking of wingers is another area where many options are available. For example, man-marking and tight-marking wingers is fine, however doing so runs the risk of your fullbacks being pulled out of position, if the AI has switching wingers, something you do not appreciate until you realise your left back is suddenly 3 yards from your right winger as he tracks across the field, creating the space you have just denied by setting up your back four tightly.

Options remaining are therefore to set OI to tightmark or close-down within the global zonal setting. I personally tend towards the closing down OI on wingers, in conjunction with a tight-marking setting on the FB. Hopefully, as soon as the winger enters his personal space so to speak, he is closed and stuck to like glue.

Only remaining problem is, how good is the winger? If it's a Ronaldo or a Ronaldhinho, at some point, they are going to get free and you have to live with it!

[Old Git]

I took this set up and went and made a variant of the 442, this time farrowing the fullbacks, barrowing the 2DCs farrowing the wingers to make the tactic look like a 424. and this worked as well.

I can't get my head round this as I've got a vision of the two CBs moving into sweeper positions, and sitting on top of the keeper

[Rashidi]

sorry meant to say barrowing the 2MCs..yeah it looks kinda weird..been coming into contact with some weird tactics playing online and its rubbing off on me........*30 mins to go*

[jaycar]

It makes sense I guess, I always liked playing the 4231 with 2 defensive barrowed MC's, can be very stable Also provides good passing options.

[jaycar]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

Heading off for a short holiday, I'll try and get back you you (Old Git). I have some ideas..

One thing about my style of play is that the only difference between my home and away tactic lies in small areas.

1. I reduce fwr on the fullbacks.

2. My defensive line tends to be adjusted based on how attacking the AI tends to be, I don't normally go any lower than a couple of notches below dead centre.

3. My tempo tends to be a bit slower, and my width usually goes to normal.

Away from home I tend to focus on the formations that can get thrown at me. I tend to tightmark wingers quite often and close down their fullbacks off Opposition instructions if its an attacking 442. If they play a 4231, then I set one DC to manmark the striker and I usually pay a lot of attention to the central AM. Closing them down heavily is sometimes a problem cos they tend to drag my defenders out of shape, so I usually opt for tight marking them.

Oddly enough I don't usually succumb to creating a counterattacking tactic. There really isn't a need to. What you should be doing is setting up passing to mixed at the back and direct from midfield onwards. The mentality of the whole team sans the defenders can be on attacking, and if you find that you are giving up too much possession, start reducing ttb and keep it on the players who can pass well.

My first order of business away from home is to keep possession. The AI does use a lot of swapping. When it does make sure that your width is not too wide, keep your players CF as low as possible (6 is fine) and then make sure you have some of these AM's tightmarked.

Personally I never go defensive away from home, its too taxing on me cos I need to turn away wave after wave. I tend to go for the jugular early, by pushing up my defensive line to a level where my players are not too exposed at the back (12) and then play a normal to high tempo game. The direct passing in midfield allows me to do that.

What I'd do is this in terms of shape

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

FC

|

|

AM

ML MC MC MR

/

/

/

/

DL DC DC DR

</pre>

That formation works well enough for me when I face an AMC led attack. What happens in this formation is that I set the MC to specific manmark if need be, or tight mark and have the AMCs either tightmarked or closed down heavily. If the team possesses good movement/pace then I choose tight marked. If they are slower than my team then I pick closed down heavily.

Hope this helps

rash, RE the formation above, Is this just the away version or do you not use farrows on your wingers at all?

[Old Git]

Originally posted by jaycar:

It makes sense I guess, I always liked playing the 4231 with 2 defensive barrowed MC's, can be very stable Also provides good passing options.

This is actually one of the formations that I used to hate playing against with a 442, but with the help of the various discussions in this thread and the development of my 442, in conjunction with extensive OI, I have just whupped Celta 4-0 at home, with not quite a first eleven, so a big to everyone who is providing thought and ideas in this thread!

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by jaycar:

rash, RE the formation above, Is this just the away version or do you not use farrows on your wingers at all?

I use the formation for home and away. The difference between both lies in the how attacking the formation is supposed to be and to do that I adjust things like closing down and defensive lines. Which also depends on how good the team is.

If I want the formation to be very attacking I tend to farrow players.

[jaycar]

Very interesting, thanks

Slightly different question, but does anyone have any idea why, in a tactic with 3 MC's, the AI barrows to DMC the MCR? Is their a match engine reason why it doesn't barrow the central MC which would seem to make more sense?

[Old Git]

Originally posted by jaycar:

Very interesting, thanks

Slightly different question, but does anyone have any idea why, in a tactic with 3 MC's, the AI barrows to DMC the MCR? Is their a match engine reason why it doesn't barrow the central MC which would seem to make more sense?

In all probability, this is where the more DM oriented MC of the 3 has been positioned in the line-up. I have seen it with the left one and/or the centre one barrowed, and when checking the player profiles this is the conclusion I have come to.

[jaycar]

Yeah, it seems this way, it just seems odd it isn't the central player to me.

[Guest cesc-da-best2007]

Yo guys, Quick question, I'm QPR and fifth season I'm 3rd in the premeirship with a good squad, getting good results, however my team get's dominated alot against lesser sides. Is there any suggestions why. I play 4-4-2 with a barrow on the striker, a barrow on a CM, and farrows on the winger's. Should I look to change even though I'm being dominated or just continue geting results.

[veston pants]

The 4-4-2 I play is really wrking well at the mo'. At home I play defensive wide short passing/slow tempo probing football with a target man until i go a couple of goals up then switch to normal normal mixed/normal counter attacking and really catch the oppoo at any attempt to get back in the game as they push on in the later stages. I never use b/arrows and on occasion I like to put f/arrows on my fullbacks so they push up tight aginst oppos wingers and stifle them, they also help out in attack alot more this way.

I leave my midfield pretty balanced with 1 winger amd cm normal and 1 winger and cm attack, leaving both strikers on normal mentality except the striker that isn't the target man slightly more toward attack. It's also useful to employ the attack down certain sides whilst using the probing technique.

[Rashidi]

This thread is about to take a radical turn..I've restarted a new game with Wolves in the championship. The goal here is to work on 2 broad strategies and then apply them to a string of tactics. As a guide, I will outline these strategies and what I do and then go out and try and apply these to games.

Application - Wolves

Broad Approaches :-

<LI>To play an attacking, high pressure game against any team

-High defensive line

-High Closing down in the opponents half

-Liberal use of arrows

-Forward runs for any player expected to contribute, includes fullbacks

<LI>To play a contained, possession based probing game

-Medium defensive line

-Closing down own area for most players in the team, except for the wingers and any attacking player.

-Limited use of arrows and forward runs

My journal:- I will try to give as much information as possible..the first few games haven't got a lot, but where possible I'll try to be more detailed.

v Colchester 433 formation..not many chances created we win this 1-0.

v Wycome (Away) Modified 433 formation. We win this game 2-0. They play a weird looking 352. Not entirely satisfied with changes created.

v Shef United (Away)

I decide to use a modified 433 formation with lots of arrows, its an attacking formation with some apparent weaknesses.

Its a tough game where the action all appears to be in midfield. I make liberal use of OI to contain their fullbacks and wingers. We grind out a 1-0 win.

v Carlisie (Home)

Using a 451 attacking formation,plenty of arrows used. Using first approach. We are expected to win. After getting the first goal I decide to sit back and play a contained match. They equalise we go to second half where I go back to my attacking approach and we win the game 3-1. This attacking 451 looks very dangerous,creates lots of chances.

I'm parking myself in the opponents half most of the time, and I am susceptible to fast breaks. The challenge is knowing when to do that. The problem lies in the AI and its continual switching of tactics.

v Plymouth (Away)

Plymouth sit near the bottom of the table having no wins yet. We are expected to win the game. They play a fast tempo game and have a narrow pitch, which would mean that this wouldn't be an easy game.

They are missing a lot of firstteamers, their biggest threat is a defender and they have a congested pitch. Go to check their highlights and they have a new signing who does well to pick up on good crosses to score. I will have to use my 451 attacking formation, which puts a lot of pressure on the defense, cos thats how they concede from allowing wingers to get into dangerous areas.

OI Time: Fullbacks Close down; Wingers tightmark

We manage to get a few attacks going. The right side of my midfield isn't as good, plenty of passes not finding their mark. Better penetration on the left.

15mins in we score, Eastwood finds the back of the net from 25yds out. The move starts nicely from my MC playing as a DM who finds another MC who slots the ball between 2 DCs for the striker to capitalise from.

We score another soon after from a throw in that is beautifully worked. Throw in taker finds striker on edge >MC on the wing slots through ball to unmarked midfielder making a late run arriving unmarked to score

Deep into the second half and both my fullbacks have picked up yellow cards; the AI has now switched to a 424 which is proving to be a challenge as I see my fullbacks tracking back. Time to switch strategies. AI has switched as well to a really weird looking 442 that has 2 long farrowed wingers and 1 barrowed MC > DMC. Time to add pressure to the DMC. OI close him down. I notice my fullbacks having to track back too much so I drop my defensive line to normal dead centre. The strategy works we add a third. The AI can't get anything started on the flanks and their DM has been neutralised.

My contained strategy involved switching to a 4411 which is weird in its own right. AI switches formation again to a 41221. A formation that has 2 wingers and 1 solo striker. My OI changes to manmark the solo striker and tightmark the wingers. We almost make it four.

Reminder to self..need to change the throw in settings for the 4411 tactic - useless

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Throw ins Right Left

FB Back

FB Forward

DC Near

DC Back

MR Short Lurk

ML Lurk Short

MC Lurk

MC Default

MC Back

FC Short

</pre>

Next match - Coventry High tempo attacking tactic that employs liberal use of their wingers. They play with short farrowed wingers.

Odds are narrow..tis a home game which we are expected to win...just. I start out my 451 attacking formation, after 30 mins I notice that we aren't making much headway and that they are getting quite a few good crosses in. I switch to my 4411 which employs a different strategy. The more patient containing strategy works as we allow the AI time to build up attacks. Two open goals in the first half.

At halftime my team talk is none. Coventry manage to pull one back off a corner. No changes to strategy. We manage to score in the 86th min to make it 3-1. The goal is clearly offside. Post match reports say that a sturdy defense and a battling midfield display were the reasons for our success.

Thats 6 wins out of 6 :-)

Wolves have won 6 out of 6 along with West Brom. Palace our next opponents have won 5 and drawn 1. Interestingly enough both teams are heading to make it the longest unbeaten start to the season.

ps> what works here may not work in FML, where things get really challenging with the plethora of weird attacking tactics ppl make.

[wwfan]

Bladdy Plymouth and their tactic changing. Did them 5-3 on agg in the play off semis in my last season, but had to change tactics about eight times to counter what they were doing, especially in the away leg.

Plymouth changes from memory:

Chelsea 4-3-3 to 5-3-2 with AMC to long-farrowed 4-4-2 to 5-3-2 to long-farrowed 4-4-2 to Chelsea 4-3-3 to 4-2-4 to 2-3-5.

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by wwfan:

Bladdy Plymouth and their tactic changing. Did them 5-3 on agg in the play off semis in my last season, but had to change tactics about eight times to counter what they were doing, especially in the away leg.

Plymouth changes from memory:

Chelsea 4-3-3 to 5-3-2 with AMC to long-farrowed 4-4-2 to 5-3-2 to long-farrowed 4-4-2 to Chelsea 4-3-3 to 4-2-4 to 2-3-5.

There is one change that the AI does which is universal..it does this which is annoying:

Short farrowed 442

Then it barrows the right MC in the formation

During the game it tends to switch the instruction between the right central MC and the left central MC.

If its trailing it'll long farrow the MCs

..other changes I've had thrown at me include switching from the barrowed MC in 442 to a 41221 formation.

These changes are important to keep track off the most damaging of which are the 424 and the solo striker formations.

[jaycar]

I like the way that the thread is going, my only moan is you're not showing the formations

I'm not after tactics, I just like to see what shapes people are coming up with

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by jaycar:

I like the way that the thread is going, my only moan is you're not showing the formations

I'm not after tactics, I just like to see what shapes people are coming up with

Dial-A-Prayer 235 formation

Composite Rather weird looking formation

4411 formation that I use sometimes

[Cleon]

Dial-A-Prayer

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by Cleon:

Dial-A-Prayer

It actually works...and therein lies the joy of calling in divine intervention.

[Cleon]

My 235 differs quite a bit from yours Link

Its one of the more fun and rewarding formations you can use

[jaycar]

Awesome Rash, thanks. I'm starting to wake up to what Farrows and Barrows can do.

That 451 has shown me how a Benitez 4231/4213 can be made

[BigAir360]

Hey Mr.Rashidi . I just read the hole of this topic last night, and i was delighted at how well your idea's have been working for everyone, and yorself. So i tried to implement it into a game of my own, and started as Liverpool, Picking up Sergio Aguero . To play in that Barrowed Role, Swapping with Torres =]. Ill Let you know how i get on with it, a few games in. Ive just finished preseason now, and it has been goals galore. And not 1 has been put past Reina..

Thanks =]

[BigAir360]

Well here i go with the updates.

My 1st match, which is at The Stadium Of Light, against Sunderland.

Starting Line Ups

Liverpool 4-4-2(1 barrowed to AMC)

GK:- Pepe Reina

DR:- Finnan

DC:- Skrtel

DC:- Carragher

DL:- Risse

MR:- Maxi Rodriguez(Farrowed)

aMC:- Steven Gerrard

dMC:- Xabi Alonso

ML:- Babel(Farrowed)

ST:- Aguero (Barrowed)

ST:- Torres.

That Being Said, Ive seen that Kenwyn Jones is playing so im going to try and mark him(Im **** Awful at doing this kind of thing) I have Put Jammie Carragher Man Marking him. So hopefully that will keep him quiet.

Now i have done the same for Both Prica and Jones, i have made sure that they are always being Tightly Marked, and that There being tackled hard, and shown onto their weaker side.

Now All that Mumbo Jumbo over Lets get on with the 1st game.

Sunderland Vs Liverpool

1st Half-

12 Minutes in, And Sergio Aguero Scores on His Debut after a lovely flick on from a Corner. 0-1

14 Minutes in and Torres Scores by Rounding the backline then doing the same to the keeper before slotting home delightfully.

20 Minutes gone and Sergio Doubles his Tally. So Far, So Damnn Goood

Half Time

And Liverpool are cruising along by 3 goals too nil.

Match Stats at The Half:-

Sunderland Liverpool

8 Shots 7

3 On Target 5

39% Possession 61%

8 Fouls 4

1 Offside 0

66% Pass Completion 77%

71% Tackles Won 66%

So Dominating on possession all though ive not had as many chances as they have. Im liking the Pass Completion up to now though .

Fernando Torres, Sergio Aguero and Maxi Rodriguez on an 8 Rating, Everybody else on 7.

Team Talk- Thrilled with the guys performance's

Second Half

[BigAir360]

crap sorry, pressed it too early :'(

[Rashidi]

BigAir, Jaycar

Glad to see things are working out.

I'm now trying to draw out some common principles that allow people to set off and make their own tactics.

I find that there are generally two ways you can approach making a tactic, you can either play a deepish/normal defensive line and play with lower closing down in your own area which allows teams to pass the ball around you and then you can do the same, provided they give you time and space.

You can also modify this slightly by having your front line play a more aggressive game and this would mean that your wingers close down more aggressively.

You could also play a more attacking style of football where perhaps the only people who close down in own area would be the DCs, the fullbacks close down in own half and the rest of the players close down more than in the other two setups. In this kind of a setup you would play higher up the pitch. Since the dline is so high you have to close down more heavily.

In as far as Opposition Instructions go, I would assign them based on the match I play. I tend to tightmark wingers and close down fullbacks almost as a default. If I face a 3 man defense, I close down the whole lot and the keeper.

If I want to play a slow tempo game with probing attacks. I would look to:

1. Keep TTB limited to only those players who have good passing, decisions. And this does not include the fullbacks.

2. Have the most creative player in my team be set to TTB often, and his closing down instructions would be own area

[karan316]

Firstly, brilliant thread, have found it very insightful

Onto my tactics now... my home form over the last 2 and a half seasons has been brilliant, we've really turned Pride Park into a fortress.

However, away is an altogether different matter. We've hardly dominated any games away from home, even against what I would consider inferior opposition, and any away wins we do get are down to us being more clinical on the day.

These are the team instructions I go with when playing away (corresponding home instructions in brackets)

Mentality - normal (attacking)

Creative Freedom - little (little)

Passing style - last notch of short (same)

Tempo - normal (quickish)

Width - normal but towards narrow (wide)

Timewasting - slightly above mixed (same)

Closing down - own half (slightly higher)

Def line - deepish (normal)

Tight marking on everyone except the CBs (same)

I play a 4-2-3-1 formation btw

where am I going wrong? I tried to keep the same attacking instructions for a few away games but it didnt really work out. Basically I just want my players to put their foot on the ball and dominate the game like they do at home. I recognize this is not possible when say playing at Old Trafford, but it should be doable at the Riverside and we're struggling at those sorts of places as well. Sometimes the home team just comes at us with wave after wave of attack, we clear the ball, and it comes straight back. Any advise would be greatly appreciated...

[Rashidi]

What does your 4231 look like?

[jaycar]

It didn't quite work out I'm afraid, I've had more stability using your 4411 but with farrows on both wingers. The farrow for the FB has been removed.

I'm using short passing up front and trying to get a lot of 1-2's going on, which looks great when it works

I've finally settled on the mentalities for the right positions, but its the closing down and passing settings I'm still tweaking.

the experimenting goes on....

[karan316]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

What does your 4231 look like?

flat back four (with f-arrows on the fullbacks at home and against weaker opposition)

two MCs with b-arrows to the DMC positions

three AMCs, with the two outer ones having side arrows to AML/R

one central striker

GK - Kuszczak

DR - Tyrone Mears

DL - Ryan Bertrand

DC - Federico Fazio

DC - Andre Bikey

MC - David Jones

MC - Owen Garvan

AMCL - Simon Vukcevic

AMCR - Henri Saivet

AMC - Diego Buonanotte

SC - Andre-Pierre Gignac

[BigAir360]

Im Going to now try my tactic with Derby Also. Ill let you know how it goes. =] Any where above the relegation zone, ide call a sucsessful season=] so lets gooo hey

[Mitja]

Originally posted by karan316:

Firstly, brilliant thread, have found it very insightful

Onto my tactics now... my home form over the last 2 and a half seasons has been brilliant, we've really turned Pride Park into a fortress.

However, away is an altogether different matter. We've hardly dominated any games away from home, even against what I would consider inferior opposition, and any away wins we do get are down to us being more clinical on the day.

These are the team instructions I go with when playing away (corresponding home instructions in brackets)

Mentality - normal (attacking)

Creative Freedom - little (little)

Passing style - last notch of short (same)

Tempo - normal (quickish)

Width - normal but towards narrow (wide)

Timewasting - slightly above mixed (same)

Closing down - own half (slightly higher)

Def line - deepish (normal)

Tight marking on everyone except the CBs (same)

I play a 4-2-3-1 formation btw

where am I going wrong? I tried to keep the same attacking instructions for a few away games but it didnt really work out. Basically I just want my players to put their foot on the ball and dominate the game like they do at home. I recognize this is not possible when say playing at Old Trafford, but it should be doable at the Riverside and we're struggling at those sorts of places as well. Sometimes the home team just comes at us with wave after wave of attack, we clear the ball, and it comes straight back. Any advise would be greatly appreciated...

your awey tactics seem very control minded to me. why don't you try a more counter-attacking style? don't bother with possesion. I allways play direct(at the back) mixed(up front)/fast style and I don't have any problem with possesion. my counter tactic looks allmost the same as attacking/balanced, with these changes;

- less FR for full backs and wingers (often->mixed)

- less FR for both MC's (mixed->rarely for MCd, often->mixed for MCa)

- mentality for strikers ( STa from att->team, STd from team->defensive)

- closing down from whole pitch-> low own half

- lower D line

- ticked counter attack

of course these are just some basics. I tweak my tactics like CD and D line depending on opponent. I usually start my awey matches with counter tactics and then switch to balanced and even attacking style. all these 3 tactics are based on pretty much same team instructions likementality, tempo, CF... it's individual instructions that change for different styles. the idea behind that those 3 tactics don't differ too much, is a "team style of play". and I'm sure this is quite how AI plays.

then I hava also "park bus", "possesion", "all out attack" tactics, which are fundamentaly different from those 3 styles-tactics.

[Rashidi]

Originally posted by karan316:

Firstly, brilliant thread, have found it very insightful

Onto my tactics now... my home form over the last 2 and a half seasons has been brilliant, we've really turned Pride Park into a fortress.

However, away is an altogether different matter. We've hardly dominated any games away from home, even against what I would consider inferior opposition, and any away wins we do get are down to us being more clinical on the day.

These are the team instructions I go with when playing away (corresponding home instructions in brackets)

Mentality - normal (attacking)

Creative Freedom - little (little)

Passing style - last notch of short (same)

Tempo - normal (quickish)

Width - normal but towards narrow (wide)

Timewasting - slightly above mixed (same)

Closing down - own half (slightly higher)

Def line - deepish (normal)

Tight marking on everyone except the CBs (same)

I play a 4-2-3-1 formation btw

where am I going wrong? I tried to keep the same attacking instructions for a few away games but it didnt really work out. Basically I just want my players to put their foot on the ball and dominate the game like they do at home. I recognize this is not possible when say playing at Old Trafford, but it should be doable at the Riverside and we're struggling at those sorts of places as well. Sometimes the home team just comes at us with wave after wave of attack, we clear the ball, and it comes straight back. Any advise would be greatly appreciated...

There are many ways to play this game. You can create tactics that sit back, soak and hit on the counter like Mitja suggests or you can have tactics that dominate entire stretches of the game and just pass the ball around looking for good build up attacks.

It would help if you let people know what you want. Ideally when you are at home you want to be as attacking as you can possibly be.

And depending on who you face away, you need to adjust accordingly. My biggest problem when giving advice is that I am the kind of guy who just likes making tactics as I go along, depending on the team I face. That is understandably hard to do. Doing things simply would mean that you need to make a tactic that allows you some measure of control

The 4231 you mention can play several ways.

<LI>Controlled/Possession Play

This may not necessarily get you a lot of goals since the risks you take aren't many. Ideally your best chances will come form mistakes that the defense does.

In such a setup the most important thing is not to lose possession. First thing you do is to make sure that the fullbacks do not have TTB on. That way they pass to the DMCs. They can also have runs often - that way they carry the ball up.

Your defensive line shouldn't be too deep, playing away from home, normal should be fine for most teams.

The challenge lies in your shape. With 2 MCs pulling back, the problem lies in getting the ball up. Perhaps direct passing from the 2DMCs, forward runs/RWB mixed. Mentality Attacking.

If there are too many players tightmarking, when the ball is turned over, the opposing player is near you too...so you need to decide who should TM.

Hmm with the formation you have...it sounds radical but try this. Passing set to 1 for the four upfront, width set to 1 and tempo set to fast. Passing focus through the middle. And tell the FC to hold up ball.

[Rashidi]

I'm going to try and make a 4231 and see if the instructions can translate to yours.

I have 2 shapes currently I'm thinking of..one is different from yours in that the 2 AMs on the left and right get moved to the AML and AMR slots..and then are giving farrows to the FC slots.

I need to balance the closing down in midfield to make sure they hold their shape when defending. Will employ short 1 touch passing and play with a narrow width, high up the pitch. If wolves can do it anyone can

[karan316]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

There are many ways to play this game. You can create tactics that sit back, soak and hit on the counter like Mitja suggests or you can have tactics that dominate entire stretches of the game and just pass the ball around looking for good build up attacks.

It would help if you let people know what you want. Ideally when you are at home you want to be as attacking as you can possibly be.

And depending on who you face away, you need to adjust accordingly. My biggest problem when giving advice is that I am the kind of guy who just likes making tactics as I go along, depending on the team I face. That is understandably hard to do. Doing things simply would mean that you need to make a tactic that allows you some measure of control

The 4231 you mention can play several ways.

<LI>Controlled/Possession Play

This may not necessarily get you a lot of goals since the risks you take aren't many. Ideally your best chances will come form mistakes that the defense does.

In such a setup the most important thing is not to lose possession. First thing you do is to make sure that the fullbacks do not have TTB on. That way they pass to the DMCs. They can also have runs often - that way they carry the ball up.

Your defensive line shouldn't be too deep, playing away from home, normal should be fine for most teams.

The challenge lies in your shape. With 2 MCs pulling back, the problem lies in getting the ball up. Perhaps direct passing from the 2DMCs, forward runs/RWB mixed. Mentality Attacking.

If there are too many players tightmarking, when the ball is turned over, the opposing player is near you too...so you need to decide who should TM.

Hmm with the formation you have...it sounds radical but try this. Passing set to 1 for the four upfront, width set to 1 and tempo set to fast. Passing focus through the middle. And tell the FC to hold up ball.

Well basically I want to play a short passing game where we keep the ball and ping it about and try and find an opening. I had initially started developing my tactic with a slow tempo but when I upped it to quick it worked much better, slow was giving the opposition too much time to set the defense up.

Obviously I would have to tweak my style of play for when we play certain teams but I do think my squad is good enough to 'outpass' and 'outplay' a lot of the teams in the league now, with the exception of a few of the big ones.

I already do some of the things you mentioned. All defenders are on very low creative freedom, short passing, and no through balls. They arent great passers so all I want them to do is give the ball to Jones and Garvan in the middle who can use it much better. Both my MCs are on mixed passing (bang in the middle) so that they can play it short but if an opportunity opens up can also try a direct ball through to the striker.

I see your point about tight marking and I am going to take it off my AMs and my SC, not sure why they had it on really I guess I'd just left it on default. Will also try the extremely short passing and quick tempo, radical idea yes but hey, if it works, we could soon be seeing some champagne football at Pride Park.

Another quick question - I've always been completely confused by the 'counter-attack' option. I've tried using it a couple of times but its never really worked out, and I didnt experiment much with it because it doesnt fit in with my style of play (see above). However, what does it mean exactly? Does it mean that my team will ONLY look to play on the counter (which I dont want) or that my team will grab the chance of a quick counter if it sees one (which I do want, at times). Would it be counter-intuitive to have my defenders on short passing and have counter attack on?

[karan316]

Originally posted by rashidi1:

I'm going to try and make a 4231 and see if the instructions can translate to yours.

I have 2 shapes currently I'm thinking of..one is different from yours in that the 2 AMs on the left and right get moved to the AML and AMR slots..and then are giving farrows to the FC slots.

I need to balance the closing down in midfield to make sure they hold their shape when defending. Will employ short 1 touch passing and play with a narrow width, high up the pitch. If wolves can do it anyone can

I tried that but it didnt work for me, as it effectively became a 3 man strike force when we had the ball, and the midfielders didnt have enough options to pass to. Basically the two outer AMs were always too close to the defenders. I find it better when they have space to receive the ball, turn, and attack.

As for my 4-2-3-1, I do use a different shape sometimes. For eg., when I have Saivet playing, I use him as an AMR to utilise his pace and dribbling ability better, while Vukcevic plays as an AML but with an inward side arrow to utilise his excellent long shots and passing.