How do i get wingers to drift into the half spaces?

[The unknown]

By now i think a have tried everthing to get my wingers into the halfspaces.

 

Pretty much all roles stay to wide, even with the width instruction set as narrow ass possible.

 

So far the closest i have found is the inside forward with stay narrow as a PI, however they move inside way to late in the build up. I would like them to go narrow really quickly and let my wingbacks keep the width

 

Anyone who have found a way to make wingers move inside ?

[Aoyao]

You should ues IW instead of W

IW will hold width in the Build up phase.

It will drift into the halfspace in the penetration phase.

If you want the IW to cross,should make it in the same side of foot.

Here is the show about IW from @Rashidi

https://www.youtube.com/embed/LiWG2GpZdVE?rel=0&showinfo=0

 

[The unknown]

I meant wingers as in the winger position on the field. I have tried with IW, but it's the same problem, they stay wider than i would like in the build up phase.

 

 

[crusadertsar]

Use a player with a dominant foot opposite from his flank and with IW or IF(S) role. And teach them trait to move into channels.

Edited February 26, 2023 by crusadertsar

[The unknown]

thank you for the reply. But it doest work  

 

 

Despite all of these, they are still staying wide, and getting the ball in wide posittion instead og ind the channel between the defender and fullback.

 

[_mxrky]

Advanced playmaker on support or attack is the only way

[Hilly1979]

What are your CM roles? Is there another player utilising the half space?

[crusadertsar]

6 minutes ago, The unknown said:

thank you for the reply. But it doest work  

 

 

Despite all of these, they are still staying wide, and getting the ball in wide posittion instead og ind the channel between the defender and fullback.

 

It could be a larger tactical issue. Let's see your tactic.

[Hilly1979]

1 minute ago, _mxrky said:

Advanced playmaker on support or attack is the only way

The only way?? What evidence do you have? I’m sorry but statements like this are wrong and causes confusion 

[crusadertsar]

1 minute ago, Hilly1979 said:

The only way?? What evidence do you have? I’m sorry but statements like this are wrong and causes confusion 

Was about to write the same thing haha. Can't stand it when I see generalized statements like that. 

[The unknown]

I have played around with a lot of things, to try and fix. Right now i am working on a tactic with this as a base

 

 

However my 2 wingers are still nok getting any passes in the half spaces

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by The unknown

[The3points]

I'd say being on narrow or very narrow width does the job for IWs most of the time

Left IW receives the ball a lot if not exactly in the halfspaces, close, and Right IW, who is a righty on the right also receives loads of passes just near the edge of the area

Here's another: this time both are on their opposite foot and you can see a high volume of passes between the penalty areas

Here it is filtered to central, excluding some outside to inside halfspace passes but still a very high volume of balls

Edited February 26, 2023 by The3points
Added more proof

[_mxrky]

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Was about to write the same thing haha. Can't stand it when I see generalized statements like that. 

it's quite literally the only way. I've tested all the roles - only the advanced playmaker stays in the half the space the entire time. others only in the final third

[The unknown]

10 hours ago, The3points said:

I'd say being on narrow or very narrow width does the job for IWs most of the time

Left IW receives the ball a lot if not exactly in the halfspaces, close, and Right IW, who is a righty on the right also receives loads of passes just near the edge of the area

Here's another: this time both are on their opposite foot and you can see a high volume of passes between the penalty areas

Here it is filtered to central, excluding some outside to inside halfspace passes but still a very high volume of balls

The last one look very interesting.

 

How did you get the IW's to do that? - traits, instructions, team instructions ??

[The3points]

17 hours ago, The unknown said:

The last one look very interesting.

 

How did you get the IW's to do that? - traits, instructions, team instructions ??

Here's the entirety of the tactic, no PIs on wingers

Attributes and traits for Cantwell

Attributes and traits for Dowell. Sometimes on the wing I use Sargent and Pukki: both have move into channels but neither of the starters do so I think it could be a width thing

[The3points]

Potentially for you I think the Be More Disciplined could be a problem, because then the wingers don't roam and instead stick to their positions rather than getting involved in the middle. Perhaps you could switch off Be More Disciplined and try and put a few more Hold Positions instead

[The unknown]

Thank you. @The3points

 

But how do you get width du "very narrow", i cant seem du get that possibility. when i slide the bar all the way to the left, it only says " Narrow"

Edited February 28, 2023 by The unknown

[crusadertsar]

17 minutes ago, The unknown said:

Thank you. @The3points

 

But how do you get width du "very narrow", i cant seem du get that possibility. when i slide the bar all the way to the left, it only says " Narrow"

Don't play on much shorter passing. 

[The unknown]

7 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Don't play on much shorter passing. 

Thank you. But as you ca see it dosnt fix it either :/

 

Ekstremly wide is also gone.

 

[Johnny Ace]

Have you tried playing around with PI's@The unknown? Roam from Position or anything like that?

It was mentioned wide APs drift, Trequartistas do too so maybe a bit of roaming will help 

[The3points]

Hm, I'm on FM22, that could be why

[MNassri]

I think it's because you're on Positive mentality.  Try dropping it a notch (or all the way).

 

Edit: Nevermind, just tried it (on FM 23), and it doesn't work.

Edited March 1, 2023 by MNassri

[The unknown]

On 28/02/2023 at 10:21, Johnny Ace said:

Have you tried playing around with PI's@The unknown? Roam from Position or anything like that?

It was mentioned wide APs drift, Trequartistas do too so maybe a bit of roaming will help 

Doesnt work. With both PT and TI to roam /be more expressiv, the wide AP, still only get the ball in the wide areas

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, The unknown said:

Doesnt work. With both PT and TI to roam /be more expressiv, the wide AP, still only get the ball in the wide areas

Doesn't look that wide from your screenshot to be honest, it's a wide player role so he will stay out wide but there's fair few passes received infield there 

If you want them off the flank, maybe give an AMCL/R a try with some PIs 

[Poison]

If(A) works well for me, they cut inside literally all the time. Good players relatively too.

[The unknown]

This picture describe my problem. Why is my wingers not moving into that massive space in the channel!

 

 

Both wingers have the trait move in to channels. And below is their instructions

 

[Andrew Marines]

Il 26/2/2023 in 17:29 , Hilly1979 ha scritto:

The only way?? What evidence do you have? I’m sorry but statements like this are wrong and causes confusion 

I wrote about this here 

The only roles working narrower ar AP, TRE and wide-target man(this one won't work 100% of the times). 

The analysis was done in a period where i watched everything in full match mode. After that i even tried with traits with no success. If you want your wide AM in the half-spaces(ON FM22!) you gotta use the three roles i mentioned.

Edit: there's an old Bustthenet video where he made it work with a IW-s(hold position and stay narrower) and an offensive wingback. It worked but not always cause the set-up could change a few things

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Andrew Marines

[Poison]

Maybe passing should be extended, pretty sure you need "pass into space" too and counter. All in all, a completely different philosophy than what you are doing. Here's my instructions (NO specific instructions):

 

[(sic)]

6 hours ago, The unknown said:

This picture describe my problem. Why is my wingers not moving into that massive space in the channel!

 

 

Both wingers have the trait move in to channels. And below is their instructions

 

I'm afraid that's hardcoded, because SI has decided that's how they should play. You can only do so much to alter their behavior.

They absolutely will occupy the halfspaces, just not in that phase of play (buildup). When the ball gets to the midfield, they will invert and look to come more narrow. I think someone has mentioned that IWs would look to come narrow earlier than the IFs would, so you might try with that, but I doubt it will help with the buildup phase. You could use APs, or TQs, as mentioned before. I see that you already have aggressive WBs, which also should force them to move inside earlier. I'd also try removing the overlaps, it might help.

 

It's funny, because I've seen so many of us complaining about the opposite thing. The wingers don't hold their width enough, which is (or at least was) true in the final third, where they would often just come narrow, and you have nobody on the flanks. IWs and IFs still do cut inside, as they should, but regular Wingers hold the width more in FM23. 

 

 

[Poison]

2 minutes ago, (sic) said:

I'm afraid that's hardcoded, because SI has decided that's how they should play. You can only do so much to alter their behavior.

I literally see them dribbling in the axle of the pitch like an amc lol. They keep going in and out in the build up constantly. Weird. It's about FM23 right?

[The3points]

13 hours ago, Andrew Marines said:

I wrote about this here 

The only roles working narrower ar AP, TRE and wide-target man(this one won't work 100% of the times). 

The analysis was done in a period where i watched everything in full match mode. After that i even tried with traits with no success. If you want your wide AM in the half-spaces(ON FM22!) you gotta use the three roles i mentioned.

Edit: there's an old Bustthenet video where he made it work with a IW-s(hold position and stay narrower) and an offensive wingback. It worked but not always cause the set-up could change a few things

 

That's not true at all regarding the FM22

[Andrew Marines]

27 minuti fa, The3points ha scritto:

That's not true at all regarding the FM22

I'd love to hear your arguments then. I'm still playing on FM22 right now, that issue is still the same and it won't change.

[The3points]

Look at the tactic I posted earlier: wingers stay ultra narrow most of time and fullbacks overlap very often

[Andrew Marines]

7 ore fa, The3points ha scritto:

Look at the tactic I posted earlier: wingers stay ultra narrow most of time and fullbacks overlap very often

You have provided no screenshots of a single match. Please, send a few.

[The3points]

Dowell and Cantwell tight in the middle of the pitch, Giannoulis makes overlapping run that leads to goal

Again, it is a principal of play that the fullbacks make overlapping runs to make width.

Here's an example in more normal buildup play. While the wingers are wider than before, they are certainly within the halfspaces.

And while I've run out of space in the comment for screenshots, the thread I posted here has even more examples with 2 different tactics

[Andrew Marines]

38 minuti fa, The3points ha scritto:

Dowell and Cantwell tight in the middle of the pitch, Giannoulis makes overlapping run that leads to goal

Again, it is a principal of play that the fullbacks make overlapping runs to make width.

Here's an example in more normal buildup play. While the wingers are wider than before, they are certainly within the halfspaces.

And while I've run out of space in the comment for screenshots, the thread I posted here has even more examples with 2 different tactics

Could you add one during the build-up from your keeper? Saw the thread but couldn't find one cause in a few screenshots it seemed like they still were too wide but in others they weren't. From the GK should clarify everything. Have you tried WITH IF too?

[The3points]

 

In terms of buildup from the keeper the wingers aren't exactly on the touchline but aren't in the halfspaces either. Wingers inverting for fullbacks to push on seems to be a middle third/final 3rd animation. I haven't been aiming for them to sit in a lot mind you, so there is no Sit Narrower instruction on them.

[The3points]

 

Here's another example, where Cantwell starts wide but inverts into the middle 3rd. While I have not tried IF, I might experiment with it an Sit Narrower to see how it will work.

Here's a screenshot, the wingers are quite narrow actually from goal kick but move wide when the fullbacks get the ball and then move back inside when we get to the middle 3rd it seems.

[Andrew Marines]

11 minuti fa, The3points ha scritto:

 

In terms of buildup from the keeper the wingers aren't exactly on the touchline but aren't in the halfspaces either. Wingers inverting for fullbacks to push on seems to be a middle third/final 3rd animation. I haven't been aiming for them to sit in a lot mind you, so there is no Sit Narrower instruction on them.

Okay, that's why i couldn't understand how you were doing that. The issue with the roles is still there. Imagine if there's not that LEFT-CM, The AM-L would be too wide.
 

Same in this one too... See the position of the AM-R? Really too wide...

2 minuti fa, The3points ha scritto:

 

Here's another example, where Cantwell starts wide but inverts into the middle 3rd. While I have not tried IF, I might experiment with it an Sit Narrower to see how it will work.

Here's a screenshot, the wingers are quite narrow actually from goal kick but move wide when the fullbacks get the ball and then move back inside when we get to the middle 3rd it seems.

How could you pass the ball at the AM-R? It's a lost ball 100%.

 

EDIT: I know they start to go into the half-spaces after the build-up but that's not what i talked about in my thread. I want the AM-R/L narrow even during the build-up phase. Something the game doesn't let me do except i use those 3 roles i mentioned

Edited March 4, 2023 by Andrew Marines

[The3points]

I think we're looking for different things. You're looking for more flexibility in positioning where the wingers shift into central positions in buildup to link up, and I was specifically speaking about wingers in the halfspace (which they are in my opinion)

So here you'd like the winger to move according to the yellow arrow (I'm assuming that's what you mean) but for me, he's in the halfspace: that's what OP wanted.

Same thing in the first video I presume, the winger is in the halfspace, but he isn't an option between the lines so you'd want him to move more centrally.

[Andrew Marines]

10 minuti fa, The3points ha scritto:

I think we're looking for different things. You're looking for more flexibility in positioning where the wingers shift into central positions in buildup to link up, and I was specifically speaking about wingers in the halfspace (which they are in my opinion)

So here you'd like the winger to move according to the yellow arrow (I'm assuming that's what you mean) but for me, he's in the halfspace: that's what OP wanted.

Same thing in the first video I presume, the winger is in the halfspace, but he isn't an option between the lines so you'd want him to move more centrally.

Yeah, as it should be.  Probably we were talking about different things, sorry.

It's a common rule to not have your fullback and winger in the same vertical line during the build-up phase and this example is perfect to see why. If your forward gets the ball, he won't have no-one to pass it to cause the AM-R is not available(too wide).

It's a common issue with both IW and IF that kills possession tactics

Edited March 4, 2023 by Andrew Marines

[(sic)]

21 hours ago, Andrew Marines said:

Yeah, as it should be.  Probably we were talking about different things, sorry.

It's a common rule to not have your fullback and winger in the same vertical line during the build-up phase and this example is perfect to see why. If your forward gets the ball, he won't have no-one to pass it to cause the AM-R is not available(too wide).

It's a common issue with both IW and IF that kills possession tactics

Yeah, I agree that they shouldn't occupy the same vertical channel. In this case, both are technically in the halfspace, because the ball is on the opposite flank.

The wingback is never going to push high early on when the ball is on the opposite flank, so he and the winger pretty much occupy the same space there. 

 

Imo in this situation, I'd want a CM or an AM in that central position, with the winger holding the width, being outside of the opposition fullback, so he could attack the space and go 1v1 if your team decides to switch the play. The fullback on the same side should act like an outlet for buildup and recycling the possession. But if you do want your winger to come even more central, you just have to play an AP or TQ there.

 

 

What I really have an issue with is this.

They're basically occupying the same space, while there's a huge gap in the halfspace/channel. That's because they look to stay wide, and then cut in, they don't automatically occupy the halfspace in the buildup, they only do so after the ball reaches the middle third (or even final third in some cases). Inverted Wingers would probably look to move in earlier.

Now that is FM22, I don't know how different it is compared to FM23, as I haven't really used overlapping wingbacks with IFs in FM23.

[Andrew Marines]

21 minuti fa, (sic) ha scritto:

Yeah, I agree that they shouldn't occupy the same vertical channel. In this case, both are technically in the halfspace, because the ball is on the opposite flank.

The wingback is never going to push high early on when the ball is on the opposite flank, so he and the winger pretty much occupy the same space there. 

 

Imo in this situation, I'd want a CM or an AM in that central position, with the winger holding the width, being outside of the opposition fullback, so he could attack the space and go 1v1 if your team decides to switch the play. The fullback on the same side should act like an outlet for buildup and recycling the possession. But if you do want your winger to come even more central, you just have to play an AP or TQ there.

 

 

What I really have an issue with is this.

They're basically occupying the same space, while there's a huge gap in the halfspace/channel. That's because they look to stay wide, and then cut in, they don't automatically occupy the halfspace in the buildup, they only do so after the ball reaches the middle third (or even final third in some cases). Inverted Wingers would probably look to move in earlier.

Now that is FM22, I don't know how different it is compared to FM23, as I haven't really used overlapping wingbacks with IFs in FM23.

Want an IF more free to get narrow and do the actual movement they should do? Use a trequartista and you'll event get something better

Edited March 5, 2023 by Andrew Marines

[The3points]

24 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Imo in this situation, I'd want a CM or an AM in that central position, with the winger holding the width, being outside of the opposition fullback, so he could attack the space and go 1v1 if your team decides to switch the play. The fullback on the same side should act like an outlet for buildup and recycling the possession. But if you do want your winger to come even more central, you just have to play an AP or TQ there.

The issue is however, in that still, there is no CM available, all are on the left and combined with the striker, and that the winger should be more central as an outlet

[The unknown]

I think there is something very wrong in general about positional awareness of players. Players do not move ind to free areas but stay in the same postition.

 

here is a example that really nlows my mind. Take a look at my 3 players in the center