Corners after latest update

[jdubsnz]

Hi all,

I don't usually pay much attention to corners, I just have them on mixed and don't adjust anything for defense and things are generally ok (been playing FM for years and always take this approach).  I've noticed after the latest update I am conceding more and scoring less from corners.

Anyone else experiencing this?  And do people have any set-ups they usually adopt for corners that work?

[fc.cadoni]

25 minutes ago, jdubsnz said:

Hi all,

I don't usually pay much attention to corners, I just have them on mixed and don't adjust anything for defense and things are generally ok (been playing FM for years and always take this approach).  I've noticed after the latest update I am conceding more and scoring less from corners.

Anyone else experiencing this?  And do people have any set-ups they usually adopt for corners that work?

Zonal defense is the best. Default one is a mess and need to make your own.

[Sharkn20]

I am scoring at the short post and the far post. No problem, You just need proper players for it. I just bought myself a 2,07m DM to score / assist in set pieces, and he is doing just that. Not in massive amounts, but enough to give him a 7.23 average in 20 games, for a mid-table team.

I haven't had many problems with set pieces either, just get tall enpugh players 1,75m and above and tall CBs > 1.90m. Get your towers in the middle, near and far post and you shpuld be good to go.

[jdubsnz]

cheers both, I'll have a look for some tall players!

[zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz]

13 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

I am scoring at the short post and the far post. No problem, You just need proper players for it. I just bought myself a 2,07m DM to score / assist in set pieces, and he is doing just that. Not in massive amounts, but enough to give him a 7.23 average in 20 games, for a mid-table team.

I haven't had many problems with set pieces either, just get tall enpugh players 1,75m and above and tall CBs > 1.90m. Get your towers in the middle, near and far post and you shpuld be good to go.

Height has absolutely no implications in the match engine. What you want is players with a high jumping reach attribute.

[Sharkn20]

On 13/12/2021 at 04:39, zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz said:

Height has absolutely no implications in the match engine. What you want is players with a high jumping reach attribute.

This is so wrong, that I can't even dignify it with an answer.

Get one 2.07m, 19 jumping reach player and a 1.69m, 20 jumping reach player, make them face each other in the air and let me know if height matters.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Sharkn20

[zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz]

On 14/12/2021 at 10:12, Sharkn20 said:

This is so wrong, that I can't even dignify it with an answer.

Then you have a problem with the game and with SI.

Aside from acting as a cap on how high the jumping reach attribute can go, height is cosmetic. A player with 20 jumping reach will get just as high regardless of if whether he is 195 cm or 205 cm, this has been confirmed numerous times by the developers.

Edit: To make this extra clear to you, this is what the in-game description of the jumping reach attribute says:

In other words, being very tall is often the reason why a player has high jumping reach, but being taller is not going to make that player reach higher than a shorter player with equal jumping reach.

Edited December 16, 2021 by zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz

[ibrahim.akbyk]

2 saat önce, zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz said:

Then you have a problem with the game and with SI.

Aside from acting as a cap on how high the jumping reach attribute can go, height is cosmetic. A player with 20 jumping reach will get just as high regardless of if whether he is 195 cm or 205 cm, this has been confirmed numerous times by the developers.

Edit: To make this extra clear to you, this is what the in-game description of the jumping reach attribute says:

In other words, being very tall is often the reason why a player has high jumping reach, but being taller is not going to make that player reach higher than a shorter player with equal jumping reach.

Is that for real? How could we find confirmed information?

[Sharkn20]

25 minutes ago, ibrahim.akbyk said:

Is that for real? How could we find confirmed information?

That is very wrong, don't pay attention to him. Just to give You an example in number so You can understand.

Is an example, not saying is the exact numbers, just a simple example.

A player A height is 2.05m and 20 jumping reach = 2.25m of reach

A player B height is 1.65 and 20 jumping reach = 1.85m of reach.

Is a simple straight line height + jumping = reach. I don't know what that sleepy man is talking about but is absolutely wrong.

[vrig]

1 hour ago, ibrahim.akbyk said:

Is that for real? How could we find confirmed information?

I have no idea why someone would actively be trying to misinform you, but the shark person clearly is.

"Jumping" was renamed "Jumping Reach" some years ago because of exactly this confusion.

Below is a complete list of all the hints and tips in FM22. Hit Ctrl and F and type "jumping reach" - it confirms what @zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz says.

https://www.fmscout.com/a-football-manager-2022-hints-and-tips.html?pg=1

Here's the online manual, from Sigames - again Ctrl F it, or scroll down to attributes:

A quick search also throws up some other threads where the question has been asked. Here are 2 such threads where an SI researcher has replied pretty definitively:

 

I hope this helps.

[ibrahim.akbyk]

Thanks for the reply, I didn't think aerial challenges work like that.

[Sharkn20]

Me neither, thanks for the teaching session, I apologise to the sleepy man and to yourself for the confusion.

[ibrahim.akbyk]

According to SI, height is matter and it conflicts what @zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz says;

''Jumping Reach reflects how good a player is at reaching the ball in the air. It indicates the highest point an outfield player can reach with his head. It does not reflect how tall a player is but, when considering his jumping ability, height is considered. For example, a player of 200+cm will still possess a high reach even if he is a poor jumper, and a shorter player will struggle to compete at the same height.''

''Heading is a player's competence in aerial situations. Heading applies to all situations and is only about the player's ability to head the ball well. Jumping Reach, Height, and to a lesser extent Strength all play a part in combination with heading to utilise the attribute to greater effect.''
 

[Sharkn20]

17 minutes ago, ibrahim.akbyk said:

According to SI, height is matter and it conflicts what @zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz says;

''Jumping Reach reflects how good a player is at reaching the ball in the air. It indicates the highest point an outfield player can reach with his head. It does not reflect how tall a player is but, when considering his jumping ability, height is considered. For example, a player of 200+cm will still possess a high reach even if he is a poor jumper, and a shorter player will struggle to compete at the same height.''

''Heading is a player's competence in aerial situations. Heading applies to all situations and is only about the player's ability to head the ball well. Jumping Reach, Height, and to a lesser extent Strength all play a part in combination with heading to utilise the attribute to greater effect.''
 

It's all a big black box really, nothing categorical...

[(sic)]

41 minutes ago, ibrahim.akbyk said:

According to SI, height is matter and it conflicts what @zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz says;

''Jumping Reach reflects how good a player is at reaching the ball in the air. It indicates the highest point an outfield player can reach with his head. It does not reflect how tall a player is but, when considering his jumping ability, height is considered. For example, a player of 200+cm will still possess a high reach even if he is a poor jumper, and a shorter player will struggle to compete at the same height.''

''Heading is a player's competence in aerial situations. Heading applies to all situations and is only about the player's ability to head the ball well. Jumping Reach, Height, and to a lesser extent Strength all play a part in combination with heading to utilise the attribute to greater effect.''
 

That really depends how you interpret it.

Height does matter so that's true, but not in the way Sharkn20 mentioned earlier. Here's an example.

You have PLAYER ONE with 16 jumping reach and height of 195 cm.

PLAYER TWO has 16 jumping reach and 182 cm.

They both have same jumping reach, so they can reach the same point in the air. PLAYER ONE is taller so he doesn't really have to jump as high to reach that point, but the PLAYER TWO actually has to jump much higher to reach that same point.

So while they both have same jumping reach, PLAYER TWO has to time his jump better and has to jump higher to reach the same height as PLAYER ONE.

[Sharkn20]

Just now, (sic) said:

That really depends how you interpret it.

Height does matter so that's true, but not in the way Sharkn20 mentioned earlier. Here's an example.

You have PLAYER ONE with 16 jumping reach and height of 195 cm.

PLAYER TWO has 16 jumping reach and 182 cm.

They both have same jumping reach, so they can reach the same point in the air. PLAYER ONE is taller so he doesn't really have to jump as high to reach that point, but the PLAYER TWO actually has to jump much higher to reach that same point.

So while they both have same jumping reach, PLAYER TWO has to time his jump better and has to jump higher to reach the same height as PLAYER ONE.

I was wrong and I did apologize for the critics.

Now, how that translates in the game? If both have the same jumping reach why player 1 will take advantage over player 2? When a player will jump more or less to get to that 16 point? Linked to bravery / strength and work rate maybe?

[(sic)]

15 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

I was wrong and I did apologize for the critics.

Now, how that translates in the game? If both have the same jumping reach why player 1 will take advantage over player 2? When a player will jump more or less to get to that 16 point? Linked to bravery / strength and work rate maybe?

I'm not really sure, but I would guess it depends on Strength, as well as various mental attributes (Bravery, and possibly Anticipation, Decisions, Positioning, Concentration, Determination, Aggression). So if smaller player has good attributes in those areas, he might be able to reach that 16 JR more regularly. Those are just my thoughts, and they might not be how the game actually works and calculates it.

[ibrahim.akbyk]

33 dakika önce, (sic) said:

That really depends how you interpret it.

Height does matter so that's true, but not in the way Sharkn20 mentioned earlier. Here's an example.

You have PLAYER ONE with 16 jumping reach and height of 195 cm.

PLAYER TWO has 16 jumping reach and 182 cm.

They both have same jumping reach, so they can reach the same point in the air. PLAYER ONE is taller so he doesn't really have to jump as high to reach that point, but the PLAYER TWO actually has to jump much higher to reach that same point.

So while they both have same jumping reach, PLAYER TWO has to time his jump better and has to jump higher to reach the same height as PLAYER ONE.

Is that a guess or a confirmation?

[GIMN]

35 minutes ago, (sic) said:

I'm not really sure, but I would guess it depends on Strength, as well as various mental attributes (Bravery, and possibly Anticipation, Decisions, Positioning, Concentration, Determination, Aggression). So if smaller player has good attributes in those areas, he might be able to reach that 16 JR more regularly. Those are just my thoughts, and they might not be how the game actually works and calculates it.

It's also worth adding that player movement will play a part.  A player attacking the ball with momentum is likely to have an advantage over a player jumping from standing, but similarly good positioning from a defender can force an attacker to try and reach the ball too early (e.g. the attacker will win the ball, but not be able to get over it enough to make useful contact)

[XaW]

Just to give some more info on this based on what I've read @santy001 (my oracle of attributes) write before:

Jumping reach is jumping reach, that is the maximum their head can reach at any point. So if player A is 185 cm and have a jumping reach of 15, and player B at 200 cm and have a jumping reach of 15, their head will reach the same height at the highest possible. However, since player B is taller, player B might not NEED to jump to head a ball that player A would have to. And of course, there are all other kinds of attributes linked in here, like strength, balance, etc. And the reason for that last caveat is that there are no situations in the game that only includes a single attribute or variable. The supporting ones will always have an impact, like balance when running, strength in a heading duel, decisions in just about everything.

[CKBrahMa]

On 17/12/2021 at 23:16, Sharkn20 said:

I was wrong and I did apologize for the critics.

Now, how that translates in the game? If both have the same jumping reach why player 1 will take advantage over player 2? When a player will jump more or less to get to that 16 point? Linked to bravery / strength and work rate maybe?

Dude, I’ve been in this forum in and out, and EVERYTIME you’re saying bad informations and in a quite agressive tone (eg. My post when I was struggling on my tactic, the Quickfire questions and so on…).

 

concerning this subject , I think you got your answer.

In attack I always aim for the far post (as, IRL, it is harder to defend far post + sometimes, your near post player will cut the ball and score it easy), and in defense, yes, zonal def is the best 

[FrazT]

@CKBrahMa

If you feel that a post is breaking the forum rules, then please report it and leave the moderating to the Mod Team- I have edited some of your comments

To all other posters:  Please leave out the personal comments and stick to the topic.

[WannabePulis]

Has anyone found a corner tactic that is really good? I feel like nearpost corners are really meh and have been playing around with far post corners but havent found anything that works yet