FM21 Messi Regista Tactic is USELESS what can I do

[MessiMessiMessi]

I want to play Leo Messi in the role Regista but it doesn't work no matter what I do even though he has PERFECT attributes for being a Regista, I get DESTROYED in EL Clasico and by Liverpool. Even lose to bad team like Betis and not with 2 shots 2 goals they have more xG than we. I want this to work badly but it doesn't please help.

I used this tactic first but I've never seen a tactic be so bad with MESSI and BARCA can't score any goals with this so switched to OP TACTIC with roles like IWB and MEZ so there's a million players in the middle blocking other guys from MESSI the Goat so he can do his work but still nothing works, I create no chances and concede stupid goals to bad teams and get destroyed by good teams. You can say it's too extreme but you need to play with this low tempo so the REGISTA can even do his work and not be useless I know I can get 100 points with normal 4231 with Barca so don't say that please.

Okay yes I can remove distribute to playmaker but I never used this in one of these games anyway but otherwise this tactic should not be this bad you know.

 

[Bluebird123]

Im sorry but Messi is not a regista. Maybe it can work but not in a system like this where you have no cover in midfield. If you want two roaming 8s you need someone to sit, cover and recycle play. that should be the DM's job but you also want him to roam up and down the pitch instead. 

The shorter passing is killing any attacks you'll have too, Messi, Pedri and De Jong can pass so why limit them to much shorter passing? 

[_mxrky]

I’m thankful that it doesn’t work tbh. Would be ridiculous if it did 

[jeerinho]

If this works, we can prolong Messi's career well past 35s when his pace drops to near zero.

You have a MEZ on the right, but no one going to left flank because everybody on the left is going inside.

You can try pushing left IWBs to FBa. Ask everyone to go forward except two CD and the right IWBs to stay beside him.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

A Regista should be the guy and not sharing playmaking duties with another player in the system. Especially not one like the roaming playmaker.

Agree with Bluebird re: lack of covering midfielder and much shorter passing.

I'd tweak as follows:

                                      CF(A)

IW(Su)                                                           IW(A)

                      CM(De)             Mez(Su)

                                    Reg(Su)

FB(A)             CD(De)             CD(De)         IWB(Su)

                                   SK(De)

Bump much shorter passing to shorter passing. I would also consider dropping the tempo down a notch but default tempo on balanced mentality may be fine. FB(A) can also be a WB(A) but I'd start with the former first and see how the overlapping runs naturally form.

Obviously you'll have to play someone else at CM(De) instead of Pedri given his incredibly poor defensive attributes.

[MessiMessiMessi]

Hello guys thank you for all the help unforunately I was very stupid with the very short passing and all that as I artificially wanted to have about 70% possession but that's not happening first season I guess.

I don't understand why people say it's unrealistic, Messi already plays passes like a Regista for Argentina right now when dropping from the false 9 and I think everybody know the videos of very old Beckham or Rooney playing 60m passes perfectly into a runner. In the game he has perfect attributes for the role as well, only that he is useless against the ball, but I was punished with this against Real, Liverpool, Atalanta straight away, so that's good from the game I'd say.

I switched to this tactic for most games now, against teams like Bilbao, Villarreal or away games I'll put either Sergi or Frenkie on defend as well.

For teams against better teams like Real or next season in Champions League I've created this with double DM system, but Idk since this is very defensive but otherwise you'll get totally run over with Messi on the 6.

Here you can see his stats, he is struggling against good teams unfortunately as I said.

[MessiMessiMessi]

I've just seen I've Pjanic on CM Attack, I can use him as MEZ as well in this 4-3-3 system but I have the IW on Stay Wider anyway and that's what I more like with the IWB than just the Winger I have to say.

[WhyMe]

If you want your regista pinging 60 yard balls ahead of runners then you need to take play out of defence off and give him more direct passes so he can make his own mind up on when he does and does not play a longer ball.  Keep everyone else on shorter passing and suddenly you have a regista who has the freedom to do what you want without other players losing possession around him.  You will need to set your keepers distribution instructions to CB/FB if you do this (or playmaker but that is more of a gamble possession wise).  The CBs/FBs should then pass to your Reg most of the time as he is your playmaker

Agree with what others said about needing a holding midfielder and if you use the system suggested by NotSoSpecial one I'd add the PI to do CM-d to stay wider, this provides better cover to the flank for the FB-a and gives the reg a little more space to operate while providing a short passing option for ball re-cycling when needed (the IWB-s proves the same on the other side.

Right flank wise your IWB-s should provide sufficient defensive cover as long as he is good defensively though you may need to drop him to IWB-d in some games.

An alternative set up to that flank is a CM-a and W-a which is great for creating overloads in the box on that side (if you have the players for the roles), the only problem with this is with a non-defensive DM you might get into trouble defensively with this at which point the IWB-d might be a winner.

 

Defensively your LOE and DL are likely causing you trouble in a lot of games, setting your LOE a notch higher than your DL means potential problems with vertical compactness (a favourite of ED) so I would suggest keeping both either the same (i.e. both on higher) or having DL one notch higher than LOE (higher DL, normal LOE).  You might need to change that depending on your opponent and against vastly inferior opposition that are camping sometimes a standard DL and higher LOE can work but it is very situational.

 

Either way good luck with it, Messi as a reg later in his career sounds like a good giggle!

Edited July 5, 2021 by WhyMe
forgot something

[MessiMessiMessi]

2 hours ago, WhyMe said:

If you want your regista pinging 60 yard balls ahead of runners then you need to take play out of defence off and give him more direct passes so he can make his own mind up on when he does and does not play a longer ball.  Keep everyone else on shorter passing and suddenly you have a regista who has the freedom to do what you want without other players losing possession around him.  You will need to set your keepers distribution instructions to CB/FB if you do this (or playmaker but that is more of a gamble possession wise).  The CBs/FBs should then pass to your Reg most of the time as he is your playmaker

Agree with what others said about needing a holding midfielder and if you use the system suggested by NotSoSpecial one I'd add the PI to do CM-d to stay wider, this provides better cover to the flank for the FB-a and gives the reg a little more space to operate while providing a short passing option for ball re-cycling when needed (the IWB-s proves the same on the other side.

Right flank wise your IWB-s should provide sufficient defensive cover as long as he is good defensively though you may need to drop him to IWB-d in some games.

An alternative set up to that flank is a CM-a and W-a which is great for creating overloads in the box on that side (if you have the players for the roles), the only problem with this is with a non-defensive DM you might get into trouble defensively with this at which point the IWB-d might be a winner.

 

Defensively your LOE and DL are likely causing you trouble in a lot of games, setting your LOE a notch higher than your DL means potential problems with vertical compactness (a favourite of ED) so I would suggest keeping both either the same (i.e. both on higher) or having DL one notch higher than LOE (higher DL, normal LOE).  You might need to change that depending on your opponent and against vastly inferior opposition that are camping sometimes a standard DL and higher LOE can work but it is very situational.

 

Either way good luck with it, Messi as a reg later in his career sounds like a good giggle!

Thank you for your points, I don't really want Messi to just hoof long balls it's just more like the Pirlo role the Regista is based on, it's just a thing I said to explain why I do this and that there is real life examples of players like Rooney playing a role like this at old age.

I can try High/High defensive lines/LOE, but I like this combination a lot and it somewhat feels mandatory with the Regista especially with Messi I don't want to fall back into the defensive formation so much, that's why I was going for extreme low passes and tempo at first but it didn't work obviously. Going away from these artificially extreme instructions and some of your suggestions the tactic seems good enough to beat most mid-table and worse LaLiga teams, I'm just struggling against the bigger teams going out of the CL losing to Atalanta twice, now with the 2DM system I won the Supercopa against Real at least, but for it to really work consistently I probably need a type like Kante or Fabinho as all the guys like Frenkie, Pedri, Ilaix, Pjanic aren't good physical defenders as well.

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Just have to remember that Pirlo was able to do what Pirlo did at AC Milan because he had Ambrosini and Gattuso to boss the midfield area. 

[MessiMessiMessi]

1 hour ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

Just have to remember that Pirlo was able to do what Pirlo did at AC Milan because he had Ambrosini and Gattuso to boss the midfield area. 

Yes you are right the issue is Barca have nobody like this Frenkie is somewhat okay due to being a good allrounder but no specialist or truly aggressive strong player and of course I don't have money to go buy Fabinho or Kante or at least some Bentancur or Sander Berge. I will see if I can even get this kind of money until Messi is retired, maybe try get Neymar or Kane then and play this role.

[MessiMessiMessi]

So in case someone is interested in seeing the results especially after the other opinions from the users on here. I finished the first season in this save, unfortunately I didn't notice that I had loaded a transfer update that for the other top leagues already added the teams of 21/22 to 20/21 season so I won't continue this save.

We were able to win the title, unfortunately lost the EL final to an Odegaard freekick, though Messi didn't even play until the last 20 minutes due to small injuries and crazy fixture congestion.

I started a new save now and played until the end of December but this time I sold Braithwaite and Umtiti so I could get the guy from Leicester called Ndidi, so someone who's actually willing to tackle and run at people.

Results are a lot better now especially against better teams with someone covering for Leo Messi. If there is some interest I'll continue to play, seeing if I can win the CL with Messi as REGISTA and what will happen when he loses his physical attributes like ACC and PACE if he'll still be able to play crazy amount of Key Passes.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by MessiMessiMessi

[glengarry224]

Very cool!  Thanks for doing this.  You're getting good results even if not the CL, which is hit-and-miss with many good clubs.

Ndidi is a beast.  The combo of him screening the defense, with Schmeichel in goal, is Leicester's bread-and-butter.

Have you found that you have enough players attacking the box off-the-ball?  If not, could you switch one of the wingers to IF?  Maybe use an overlap or two versus narrow defenses?

[MessiMessiMessi]

23 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

Very cool!  Thanks for doing this.  You're getting good results even if not the CL, which is hit-and-miss with many good clubs.

Ndidi is a beast.  The combo of him screening the defense, with Schmeichel in goal, is Leicester's bread-and-butter.

Have you found that you have enough players attacking the box off-the-ball?  If not, could you switch one of the wingers to IF?  Maybe use an overlap or two versus narrow defenses?

Okay I was pretty stupid not to talk about tactics but I've tweaked it a fair bit, for example in the beginning I was set on lower tempo, now I've gone for Shorter Passing and Normal or Higher Tempo and it didn't hurt Messi a lot. I have put an overload on the left side with CM Support, WB Auto and the IW with Dembele as W Attack on the right to release, Against the good teams I mostly play 4-2DM-1-3 with Ndidi as simple DM Defend. The original tactics maybe could be just fine with Ndidi in midfield instead of Pjanic, Frenkie, Busquets as well. In the new save I've also played Roberto as CM and Dest as RB more. I've tried playing Ndidi as simple CM Defend in the normal 4-3-3 as well but 2DM just seems to work better.

In the first save in the CL the issue really was losing against Atalanta twice, who of course punched through our middle with Messi, De Jong, Pjanic with their 3-4-1-2. I've had an easy group and got Leipzig in R16 this time but with new tactics and Ndidi I feel like I'm equipped for the better teams as well.

Edited July 10, 2021 by MessiMessiMessi

[glengarry224]

On 10/07/2021 at 14:06, MessiMessiMessi said:

Okay I was pretty stupid not to talk about tactics but I've tweaked it a fair bit, for example in the beginning I was set on lower tempo, now I've gone for Shorter Passing and Normal or Higher Tempo and it didn't hurt Messi a lot. I have put an overload on the left side with CM Support, WB Auto and the IW with Dembele as W Attack on the right to release, Against the good teams I mostly play 4-2DM-1-3 with Ndidi as simple DM Defend. The original tactics maybe could be just fine with Ndidi in midfield instead of Pjanic, Frenkie, Busquets as well. In the new save I've also played Roberto as CM and Dest as RB more. I've tried playing Ndidi as simple CM Defend in the normal 4-3-3 as well but 2DM just seems to work better.

In the first save in the CL the issue really was losing against Atalanta twice, who of course punched through our middle with Messi, De Jong, Pjanic with their 3-4-1-2. I've had an easy group and got Leipzig in R16 this time but with new tactics and Ndidi I feel like I'm equipped for the better teams as well.

Any update?  I'm interested in this experiment.  I'd have tried it myself but got too busy with work and family stuff...

[jeerinho]

3-4-1-2 or any variation of that can effectively counter narrow pressing 4-3-3 that uses inverted wingers. This is true even in real life. In FM, you will notice when the games against Atalanta, Leipzig, Wolves and Brighton are needlessly more troublesome than they should be. I play with two mezzalas, so they are the ones that I instruct to specifically mark those notorious wingbacks. I'm not sure if real-life managers also do this. Even when my mezzalas are yards away, I could see that they've tried their best to block off their passing lanes, making it harder for them to switch play between left and right. Doing this also helps my fullbacks so they can concentrate solely on marking two of the three opposition forwards.

[MessiMessiMessi]

16 hours ago, glengarry224 said:

Any update?  I'm interested in this experiment.  I'd have tried it myself but got too busy with work and family stuff...

honestly I got very bored with this and atm I'm playing a more tryhard save again, maybe if I'm bored again I'll finish this season but you could see that even without any midfielder capable of defending and having a million games due to Europa League I won the league and now with Ndidi in the squad I was walking the league. Only question is if you can win the CL which for me I'd doubt since I'm not very good in these knockout ties but with the right luck it's probably feasible when playing with Messi and Ndidi Double DM.

[Sneaky Pete]

10 hours ago, jeerinho said:

3-4-1-2 or any variation of that can effectively counter narrow pressing 4-3-3 that uses inverted wingers. This is true even in real life. In FM, you will notice when the games against Atalanta, Leipzig, Wolves and Brighton are needlessly more troublesome than they should be. I play with two mezzalas, so they are the ones that I instruct to specifically mark those notorious wingbacks. I'm not sure if real-life managers also do this. Even when my mezzalas are yards away, I could see that they've tried their best to block off their passing lanes, making it harder for them to switch play between left and right. Doing this also helps my fullbacks so they can concentrate solely on marking two of the three opposition forwards.

Ironically in my experience it kind of works the opposite way in FM21, assuming you use the correct OIs. The 4-3-3/4-1-4-1/etc effectively has a free man on each flank vs. the 3-4-1-2. If you man-mark the WBs with your wingers (who obviously need to have decent workrate) and take away the keeper's ability to distribute short, you can pretty consistently take even excellent WBs like Atalanta's Gosens/Hateboer duo out of the game completely. 3ATB teams can still be incredibly hard nuts to crack defensively, but you can completely neuter them offensively by exploiting your man advantage.

What really kills you against 3-4-1-2 and similar formations is not having a DM - that makes it far too easy to exploit the space in front of your defense since the 3-4-1-2 will inherently have a numerical advantage centrally against basically any formation that isn't a mirror matchup.

Unfortunately the real IRL counter to formations with a single wide man doesn't really work in FM21 - 3ATB CBs tend to literally just stand around quite narrowly in their own half, so quick counters into the space behind the WBs tends not to really work very well unless you counter with A LOT of players.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Sneaky Pete

[glengarry224]

1 hour ago, Sneaky Pete said:

Ironically in my experience it kind of works the opposite way in FM21, assuming you use the correct OIs. The 4-3-3/4-1-4-1/etc effectively has a free man on each flank vs. the 3-4-1-2. If you man-mark the WBs with your wingers (who obviously need to have decent workrate) and take away the keeper's ability to distribute short, you can pretty consistently take even excellent WBs like Atalanta's Gosens/Hateboer duo out of the game completely. 3ATB teams can still be incredibly hard nuts to crack defensively, but you can completely neuter them offensively by exploiting your man advantage.

What really kills you against 3-4-1-2 and similar formations is not having a DM - that makes it far too easy to exploit the space in front of your defense since the 3-4-1-2 will inherently have a numerical advantage centrally against basically any formation that isn't a mirror matchup.

Unfortunately the real IRL counter to formations with a single wide man doesn't really work in FM21 - 3ATB CBs tend to literally just stand around quite narrowly in their own half, so quick counters into the space behind the WBs tends not to really work very well unless you counter with A LOT of players.

Great points.  I've found that vs teams that play 3 ATB, I can use a 4-3-3 Wide (2 DM vs better teams), or even a 4-4-2 2DM: if I have CBs who are good in the air, I can play narrower on defense, man mark the wingbacks, play wider/direct on attack, sometimes with early crosses, sometimes overlap, sometimes 'pass into space' and I can compete with superior opposition.  My formations with a Regista or SV work well with that DM-playmaker spraying passes out to the open wings.

[Guerin]

Cool idea. If I was doing it, I'd start by having three at the back. Maybe I will do it...

[jeerinho]

23 hours ago, Sneaky Pete said:

Ironically in my experience it kind of works the opposite way in FM21, assuming you use the correct OIs. The 4-3-3/4-1-4-1/etc effectively has a free man on each flank vs. the 3-4-1-2. If you man-mark the WBs with your wingers (who obviously need to have decent workrate) and take away the keeper's ability to distribute short, you can pretty consistently take even excellent WBs like Atalanta's Gosens/Hateboer duo out of the game completely. 3ATB teams can still be incredibly hard nuts to crack defensively, but you can completely neuter them offensively by exploiting your man advantage.

What really kills you against 3-4-1-2 and similar formations is not having a DM - that makes it far too easy to exploit the space in front of your defense since the 3-4-1-2 will inherently have a numerical advantage centrally against basically any formation that isn't a mirror matchup.

Unfortunately the real IRL counter to formations with a single wide man doesn't really work in FM21 - 3ATB CBs tend to literally just stand around quite narrowly in their own half, so quick counters into the space behind the WBs tends not to really work very well unless you counter with A LOT of players.

I felt that wingers and inside forwards are too far ahead most of the time to be able to efficiently track the opposition wingbacks, and they usually don't have the workrate because the most important stat when I look for a winger is quickness. For a title-challenging team, a draw tastes like defeat. I need to make the most of any attacking opportunity, by keeping my wingers available higher up the pitch for quick transitions, so my lone striker is not too isolated against 3ATB.

But yeah, man-marking is a great solution for many problems. This is one of it. It also reduces the consequences of skipping opposition instructions. Make sure to not go overboard with the Hold Position, Stay Wider or other instructions that may negate its effect. For example, certain opposition AMC in 4-2-3-1 drop deep so your DM enforcer can't fully reduce his influence in the game if he has to Hold Position.