Why is it so damn hard to win away games!

[Luwi]

I coach Man UTD and for some reason It's really hard to win away games no matter well planned your tactic is you will be beaten unless you have a bit of luck. I get it, away games are generally harder for to a number of factors, but the unrealistic nature of it is ANNOYING. An example of game I had with spurs recently and it was havoc. They lost 3 games, drew 1 and won 1 in the last 5 games so they were in poor form. And I won 4 have and lost 1 so I was in good form. But when I played the game I was whooped 7-0. They had 70% possession and I had 30%. I use 4231 wide and I press and look to control the game, but when I played the match, my players where everywhere. 3 players making one striker, so he does is turn around and gives one through ball and Kane is gone. I had 30 shots on goal, 24 were in target and we're either blocked it lloris would save them. They had 15 shots on goal and 13 were on target. How is that possible? I have some of the best finishers in earth and they miss so the one on ones but a midfielder it there's will score easily. There is not there only match, Liverpool's is the worst. It takes tactical genius to beat the defense, but then there is Alisson who will just save your shots. Alisson giving 3 assists in a match, where have you ever seen that before? Some games are newer impossible to win and you have to be content with a draw and it bugs me because I haven't won the title in 2 years and I might be sucked. Please help me, what the HELL do I do?

[Hovis Dexter]

4 October 2020 IRL you lost 6 -1 at home to Spurs so 7 - 0 away seems fair enough to me. But seriously though if you want assistance then it would be a good idea to post your formation and tactic and request assistance from the forum ... you'll receive lots of good advice.

 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Luwi said:

Please help me, what the HELL do I do?

This: 

 

38 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

if you want assistance then it would be a good idea to post your formation and tactic and request assistance from the forum ... you'll receive lots of good advice

[Luwi]

I use 4231 Tika taka. Short passing, lower tempo at times just a bit higher, positive mentality. Higher defensive line and higher attacking line. Stay on feet, distribute to full backs and center backs. Play out of defence, distribute ball quickly, press after ball loss, be expressive. Should I go on? Please tell me what's wrong.

[Experienced Defender]

Just now, Luwi said:

I use 4231 Tika taka. Short passing, lower tempo at times just a bit higher, positive mentality. Higher defensive line and higher attacking line. Stay on feet, distribute to full backs and center backs. Play out of defence, distribute ball quickly, press after ball loss, be expressive. Should I go on?

Roles and duties? They matter the most, along with your player selection relative to them.

Btw, it would be far more convenient for us to help you if you posted a screenshot of the tactic. 

[Luwi]

 

43 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Roles and duties? They matter the most, along with your player selection relative to them.

Btw, it would be far more convenient for us to help you if you posted a screenshot of the tactic. 

St- advanced forward

Amr-winger support

Aml-inside forward support

Amc- attacking midfielder attack

Cm- deep laying playmaker support

Cm- advanced playmaker attack

Lb- fullback attack

Rb-wing back attack

Dc- ball playing defender defend

Dc-ball playing defender cover

Gk-sweeper keeper support

[Fatkidscantjump]

First thing that comes to mind is that your tactical setup is very risky in terms of roles and duties.

In a 4231 the central midfielders need to be the backbone of your team, they need to be hardworking, link up the front four with the defense and be the first screen against counters. Hence why in most 4231 central midfielders will be played with somewhat conservative roles such as Cm(d or s), bwm, even Bbm, dlp.

In your setup both your wide defenders are on an attack duty, the formation doesnt have a Dm and neither of your two Cms will cover for them in their current role and duty. This leave you with giant gaps on the sides, especially considering wide attacking players in a 4231 will have trouble coming back to help defend.

The reason why you are getting destroyed away is because AI tactics are generally better when they play at Home so when you play them away they will punish the flaws in your tactic. Since they will play less agressive and generally speaking have a less well designed tactic when they play you in your home stadium you may be rewarded more by your super risky setup, hence the discrepancy between perceived home and away difficulty.

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Fatkidscantjump

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, Luwi said:

Cm- deep laying playmaker support

Cm- advanced playmaker attack

I immediately saw a big problem here - a player in a CM position on attack duty in a 4231 is a tactical no-no. Because it's a top-heavy system with no DM, so neither of the CMs should be overly attack-minded in terms of their role and/or duty. So you have a huge defensive weakness in your midfield, and I am not surprised at all that a top team like Spurs smashed you by 7-0. Even much weaker teams than Spurs can easily punish such a porous midfield setup. 

 

4 hours ago, Luwi said:

Lb- fullback attack

Rb-wing back attack

And then on top of the aforementioned vulnerability in the midfield, you are playing both fullbacks on attack duties, which makes your defense even more exposed. 

FM is a very serious game and so you need to weigh up your tactical decisions very carefully. Otherwise, you can be punished very easily, no matter how good your players might be. Which is what has actually already happened to you. 

[Luwi]

5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I immediately saw a big problem here - a player in a CM position on attack duty in a 4231 is a tactical no-no. Because it's a top-heavy system with no DM, so neither of the CMs should be overly attack-minded in terms of their role and/or duty. So you have a huge defensive weakness in your midfield, and I am not surprised at all that a top team like Spurs smashed you by 7-0. Even much weaker teams than Spurs can easily punish such a porous midfield setup. 

 

And then on top of the aforementioned vulnerability in the midfield, you are playing both fullbacks on attack duties, which makes your defense even more exposed. 

FM is a very serious game and so you need to weigh up your tactical decisions very carefully. Otherwise, you can be punished very easily, no matter how good your players might be. Which is what has actually already happened to you. 

I already changed my formalities to 433 when I was 1 nill down and I still head the exact problem. I did all that you said and still lost 5 nill. So what now? 😞

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Post screenshots of the tactic in the 433 you changed to please.

Edited October 9, 2020 by NotSoSpecialOne

[denen123]

11 hours ago, Luwi said:

 

St- advanced forward

Amr-winger support

Aml-inside forward support

Amc- attacking midfielder attack

Cm- deep laying playmaker support

Cm- advanced playmaker attack

Lb- fullback attack

Rb-wing back attack

Dc- ball playing defender defend

Dc-ball playing defender cover

Gk-sweeper keeper support

Nobody defends in this tactic.

Edited October 9, 2020 by denen123

[xavierm]

BPD Defend + BPD Cover is also a real problem in defense.

 

[Fatkidscantjump]

Try this : change both the fullback and wingback from attack duty to support. Then change the central midfielder on the side of the wingback to Cm(d) or Dlp(d) or even Bwm(d). Then change the other central midfielder to Cm(s) or Dlp(s) if you didnt chose dlp for the other midfielder, or BBM(s).

Basically those changes are about reducing the risk your wingbacks and central midfielders will take and thus be able to withstand more of the pressure that a team like spurs will apply on you when they play at home.

Oh and yeah both defenders should be on defend duty I think.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Fatkidscantjump

[Impacto]

Hard? It's not hard at all in my experience. It's even easier because the opposition leaves a lot of space to be exploited. You just need to defend well and use that space.

Looking at your tactic, you are way too attacking. You have no defensive minded midfielder and both your Full Backs are attacking. This leaves just the 2 defenders fending for themselves. That might work at home against weak opposition, but away you're an easy prey. 

Get yourself somebody protecting the backline. Players in the DM strata work really well, I like the HB or DLP on Defend, but anything can work. You can even have two midfielders in the DM strata, one of them HB or DLP, the other one as Secundo Volante. This way you have even stronger protection at the back and BOTH full backs can be on attacking(just make the winger on the right inverted). If you don't want a midfielder that deep for some reason, just make the ones behind the AMC a high working pair - BWM with a CM on Defend. Or DLP with BWM. Or even DLP + Box to box. The choice is yours. Just FYI, if you have both midfielders in the DM strata, that leaves more space for the AMC to do it's thing. 

Your AMR is a winger. So he is already stretching the game on the right, no need to have the RB on attack duty. Either get him staying close to the backline with defend duty for more security, or as a IWB on support for more central presense. I found that this works really well for possession based systems. On the left side with the IF cutting inside it's ok to have an attack minded FB to have widht on the left as well. 

Finally you can make your AMR and AML track back by making them 'Mark specific position' from the player instructions menu. Put them marking the opposite full backs and they will be tracking back like crazy. 

Hope this helps. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Impacto

[Experienced Defender]

13 hours ago, Luwi said:

I already changed my formalities to 433 when I was 1 nill down and I still head the exact problem. 

A change of the formation alone means nothing. None said that you need to change the formation, just to create a better balanced and more sensible setup of roles and duties in the first place. Then come the tweaking of instructions as the next step.

 

13 hours ago, Luwi said:

I did all that you said and still lost 5 nill. So what now?

First off, I did not say what you should do, but only what you should not do when you play in a  system like 4231. So how can you say that you "did all that I said" when I did not say anything on that score? 

[mouli]

20 hours ago, xavierm said:

BPD Defend + BPD Cover is also a real problem in defense.

 

Why? Just curious because I've used that combo before. 

[Luwi]

On 08/10/2020 at 21:12, Fatkidscantjump said:

First thing that comes to mind is that your tactical setup is very risky in terms of roles and duties.

In a 4231 the central midfielders need to be the backbone of your team, they need to be hardworking, link up the front four with the defense and be the first screen against counters. Hence why in most 4231 central midfielders will be played with somewhat conservative roles such as Cm(d or s), bwm, even Bbm, dlp.

In your setup both your wide defenders are on an attack duty, the formation doesnt have a Dm and neither of your two Cms will cover for them in their current role and duty. This leave you with giant gaps on the sides, especially considering wide attacking players in a 4231 will have trouble coming back to help defend.

The reason why you are getting destroyed away is because AI tactics are generally better when they play at Home so when you play them away they will punish the flaws in your tactic. Since they will play less agressive and generally speaking have a less well designed tactic when they play you in your home stadium you may be rewarded more by your super risky setup, hence the discrepancy between perceived home and away difficulty.

 

Belotti is still scoring hattri KS and I keep losing, defending formation, post and attacking formation lost. Are there specific instructions that I should use? What do you use?

[xavierm]

Il y a 2 heures, mouli a dit :

Why? Just curious because I've used that combo before. 

With a BPD (D) and a BPD(C) you're inviting pressure on your central defense. Your BPD(C) drops back to cover but your BPD (D) doesn't press that much the opposition striker. You're leaving a hole in your defense. 

It can be mitigated with very good defenders or a high working DM In front of the defense to cover that gap, but it is clearly not the optimal setup. 

It also doesn't go well with a tactic such as the one we 're talking about here, which is a high pressure tactic and leaves a gaping hole between defense and midfield 

[xavierm]

il y a 39 minutes, Luwi a dit :

Belotti is still scoring hattri KS and I keep losing, defending formation, post and attacking formation lost. Are there specific instructions that I should use? What do you use?

Whoah, 3 playmakers in midfield? I'd highly suggest you to read the role and combination article pinned on this forum. 

[Tiger666]

You're making a lot of mistakes with your roles/duties. Start by downloading and reading the pdf here: