[FM20] Voltaço

[_Ben_]

World class

Never mind 'Wonderkid' - this lad is absolutely world class...

He's making noises about a move to a bigger club and, to be fair, it is probably the right thing to do. By already having Joao Fernando for six or seven years before he was 'officially' elite meant that he was already settled and loyal, but Cabral has got there too soon - if that's a thing!

My plan was to see if he could emulate Ronaldo and, to be fair, you could say that he's not far off the level of the elite CM01/02 Inter Milan striker.

---

Money is not a problem for us but it'd be nice for us to break some kind of record:

• Club record sale is £39m for Flavio Aurelio to Anderlecht
• Brazilian record export is £60m for Jose Rafael from Corinthians to Chelsea.
• World record transfers are:
  • £150m for Jean-Clair Todibo from Barca to PSG in 2036
  • £132m Kai Havertz from Chelsea to PSG in 2023
  • £130m for Frenkie de Jong from Barca to Liverpool in 2023
  • £130m for Ousmane Dembele from Man City to PSG in 2024

I think that the world record amount may be out of reach, considering he's only valued at £14m and we are in Brazil - but I think I should aim to try and break the Brazilian record export.

 

[LUFCspeni]

Good lord he is incredible!

Try and keep him as long as you can, long contracts, automatic extensions etc. He could break all kinds of records!

[_Ben_]

2036 end of season

Another season done and some more steady improvements.

82 points would have won the league just six times in the last sixteen seasons so we need to be bracing ourselves to put together a pretty much undefeated season if we want to win the title. Credit must go to Flamengo, who fought back from a meagre 61 points last term by (and less credit for this) stealing Santos' manager, who won the Brasiliero last year.

What does fill me with promise is that it is only Flamengo ahead of us and we are now regularly dismantling them at Carioca level and have only lost once in the last twelve games against them:

(N.B - how crazy is it that I've played 7% of my total career games against one club?!)

---

This is looking really strong this year - with good performances all around. I am a little worried that Nathan, a not particularly strong player, has amassed over fifty starts!

Joao had his weakest league season but did miss a huge chunk with injuries - which curtailed his record breaking season elsewhere!

---

There must be a bug with this as we have loads of money...

Things are looking strong as we move into next year:

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by _Ben_

[_Ben_]

13 minutes ago, LUFCspeni said:

Good lord he is incredible!

Try and keep him as long as you can, long contracts, automatic extensions etc. He could break all kinds of records!

Got a better idea...

Chelsea have come in with a bid that I negotiated up to £80m. I also fancied adding a cheeky loan back clause to keep him here next year, so chose End of Next Season (as we are still in the 2036 campaign):

They accepted it, but, given the time of season we must be in - look when the loan ends:

That is the end of the 2038 season!

I'll be getting a Brazilian export record and keeping him on loan for two years!

[_Ben_]

Player Sale

As I said, £80m right now, but won't be playing for Chelsea until 2039! Credit goes to @Jimbokav1971 for his insistence on the 'loan back' clause.

This is surely not working as intended as I don't think a team would pay that much and allow a loan that long, especially when their best striker, Jefferson Bonati, is probably weaker than Cabral.

Never the less - this is part of the game and what I'm trying to achieve, so I'm all for it!

[_Ben_]

2037 Carioca State prep

As always, I'm going to be moving up some reserve players to the squad for next year's Carioca in order for them to see if they are ready. I love this competition style because it's long enough to get a run in the team and really prove yourself ready - and has led to me being able to promote players year on year. It also essentially extends my pre-season to April as we have four months of State games and relatively easy Liberdatores group games to find new buyers.

For the first time - my reserve team are now classed as strong:

---

The below nine players will be joining the first team in order to get competitive minutes, train with the first team squad and benefit from the mentoring, in what I would say is a realistic process of choosing my 'State squad:'

Biondo and Vinicius aside, they all have great personalities (and those two are definitely still good) so it'll be a case of exposure to the first team as they are inexperienced in that area (Clovis' games came in a loan spell in the third tier) and see if they are ready for my first team or another club's. I want to pay particular attention to Giovanni - a Serie D level player - as his personality should mean that he will progress particularly well should he get some game time.

They will also be joining current first team breakthrough prospects (and more on how I do squad statuses at another time!):

Despite Francisco's Liberdatores final performance, I'm still not entirely settled on his contribution to the first team - so he has a lot to play for.

--

They join the five star players I have at the club:

I'm not focusing on the 'squad players' right now - just these five and their importance to my state team. Geilton is a starter in this competition as I look to get him as many minutes as I can do, likewise Joao Fernando is trying to score as many as possible - so he plays, even against the minnows. The other three become a little obsolete in this competition (Cabral even more now he doesn't technically belong to me) as they tend to just stop youngsters getting minutes. Ederson will probably play as I have no depth but that isn't intentional!

---

As you can see, and probably tell from my writing style here, we are in an incredibly strong position and I'm looking forward to trying to win my sixth Carioca state.

Edited August 6, 2020 by _Ben_

[_Ben_]

Unhappy fans!

I mean, he's now on £140k p/w and we pay none of that for the next two years - plus, we get an extra £80m in the bank to keep the fire going through the winter, as there is literally no other use for this money:

---

EDIT: Confirmation of the record sale:

Edited August 6, 2020 by _Ben_

[wesl]

To be fair, if Ronaldo was 20 years younger he probably would've spent some time in the loan army.

[Jimbokav1971]

2 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

This is surely not working as intended as I don't think a team would pay that much and allow a loan that long, especially when their best striker, Jefferson Bonati, is probably weaker than Cabral.

I've considered this too but I think it's ok. I've had quite a few clubs just refuse to accept the deal, but I think at the end of the day it depends on how bad they want the player. If he's 19 or 20 then maybe they don't mind waiting 12 months or so, (especially if he's likely to continue to develop), and the only negative might be that he might get injured, but of course he might get injured playing for them anyway so what's the difference? 

If they really want him, then they will be prepared to do the deal and then wait for him. I think it's fine. I think the issue is that the AI doesn't make more use of it. 

[-Jef-]

I think that the loan back option significantly lowers the fee that the teams are willing to pay. Had teams cut their fee by 30% when i orange locked the loan back fee and some outright refuse to negotiate when i put it in there

[Fosse]

Chelsea bought Pulisic quite a while before he actually joined didn’t they? So it’s not wildly unrealistic.

[_Ben_]

12 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I've considered this too but I think it's ok. I've had quite a few clubs just refuse to accept the deal, but I think at the end of the day it depends on how bad they want the player. If he's 19 or 20 then maybe they don't mind waiting 12 months or so, (especially if he's likely to continue to develop), and the only negative might be that he might get injured, but of course he might get injured playing for them anyway so what's the difference? 

If they really want him, then they will be prepared to do the deal and then wait for him. I think it's fine. I think the issue is that the AI doesn't make more use of it. 

 

3 hours ago, rosque said:

I think that the loan back option significantly lowers the fee that the teams are willing to pay. Had teams cut their fee by 30% when i orange locked the loan back fee and some outright refuse to negotiate when i put it in there

 

2 hours ago, Fosse said:

Chelsea bought Pulisic quite a while before he actually joined didn’t they? So it’s not wildly unrealistic.

 

I think I'm more perplexed by two things, and I worded my initial post a little wrong:

• As @rosque said - Chelsea were on their last negotiation, pretty much, but were happy to then include the loan. Not sure I've seen that before.
• I made the initial post about him and then offered him out, with one league game left of the 2036 season. I put end of next season because I didn't want to keep him for just one game but it appears that there either must be a cut off point or it must take into account when the transfer was going through (2.1.2037) to then mean the 2037 and the 2038 season.

I think I've got my head around it now! Works great for both parties, I think.

[-Jef-]

If it's after last day of latest transfer window in a season (for most Euro leagues that's Jan transfer window) and you put end of next season it automatically rules out current season since his transfer cannot be finished until July which is technically next season. And then counts 2 seasons from then. Not a bug IMO.

[_Ben_]

4 minutes ago, rosque said:

If it's after last day of latest transfer window in a season (for most Euro leagues that's Jan transfer window) and you put end of next season it automatically rules out current season since his transfer cannot be finished until July which is technically next season. And then counts 2 seasons from then. Not a bug IMO.

You're right. I thought 'end of season' would mean current but then didn't take into account transfer windows. I was confused at the start but got it now!

[_Ben_]

The 'breakthrough prospects'

I'm starting to re-build the next group of potentially top players now to replace the likes of Elias Custodio Santos, Vini, Antonio Carlos, Flavio Aurelio and Mazinho - who have all successfully been shipped off to Europe:

----

These players are in and around the first team and have the potential to really break through and earn their moves this year:

I am delighted with how he has moved into a defensive midfield position and offers us some good playmaking ability from deep. He does lack three attributes that, if nitpicking, would love to see: Bravery, Concentration and Leadership. However, when paired with a ball-winner, he's done really well.

Currently injured (hence the Bravery dip), Cleber has settled into to the AP(s) slot and made a lot of appearances last year with the only blot on his copy book really being the Liberdatores final, where he just didn't turn up. Really technical and the combo of Flair/Decisions/Vision and the ability to use two feet make him a real handful. I do wish his dribbling was a little better but I'm thinking of maybe trying to get some extra traits in there this year - trying tricks would be one.

With Cabral gone in two years - that gives this lad a chance to really hone his skills from the bench and, now I care a little less about the actual game time of Cabral, in a more rotational position. He's a different type of striker: tall and strong and holds the ball up well but can still find the goal when needed. I actually really like him and it's a bit of a shame that he's being a world class forward!

A little less proficient on the ball than a couple of my other centre backs, but he's making good progress and is quite solid. I think his decisiveness gets him out of some areas whereby people would normally need to rely on physicality. He's good and, to be fair, the depth in this area isn't amazing - but I do hope he can earn a move after a good season here.

[-Jef-]

I really do think that progress that you're making here with all these kids shows that even so called ***** intakes where 2-3 players are 4-4.5* means they can at least become a depth option or sold for profit. Most important thing, as you've shown, is to get the right personalities and they will develop.

 

Can you go into bit of a detail into how you approach a youth intake? Do you do mentoring groups for players in youth squads?

[Jimbokav1971]

4 hours ago, rosque said:

I think that the loan back option significantly lowers the fee that the teams are willing to pay. Had teams cut their fee by 30% when i orange locked the loan back fee and some outright refuse to negotiate when i put it in there

I sort of agree with this but don't think it's the case in all circumstances. 

If you are selling a player with a big up front fee and you want to loan them back then absolutely there is going to be a knock-on impact on the transfer fee. You are effectively loaning a top-end player for the whole season and the impact should be significant. 

If on the other hand you are selling a future prospect where the initial fee isn't great, but there are significant add-ons, (basically the difference between where @_Ben_is in his save and where I am in mine), then there is going to be little impact on the fee because although the player might be a big player for you, he's not a big player in the here and now for the buying club. 

In my position it makes sense for me to trade a tiny bit of front end cash for a whole season. 
In @_Ben_'s position it might be much more costly and probably depends on if he is able to source a replacement. With wages and budgets and reputation to consider, it might not be physically possible to replace him with a like for like player, so paying through the nose at the front end, (as a % of the up front fee), might be a price worth paying. 

The other thing to consider is that we invariably, also don't have to pay the player wages for the loan period, (which itself might be significant). 

[_Ben_]

7 minutes ago, rosque said:

I really do think that progress that you're making here with all these kids shows that even so called ***** intakes where 2-3 players are 4-4.5* means they can at least become a depth option or sold for profit. Most important thing, as you've shown, is to get the right personalities and they will develop.

 

Can you go into bit of a detail into how you approach a youth intake? Do you do mentoring groups for players in youth squads?

I'm happy with 3* players because I can develop them and move them on! We've had more star players than is probably realistic but the best moves, and most fun, for me, have been the lesser players.

I don't really do much different for the youth players really and, in my game, there is no option for youth and reserve mentoring - is this an option elsewhere or can I just not find it? What I do, though, is allow them to be in the first team and get match experience in the Carioca State - as we are playing 6 really weak teams and then the other four Brasiliero sides. I then move them back to the reserve team as they play in a competitive league and manage their training.

[_Ben_]

On 29/07/2020 at 21:55, _Ben_ said:

Developing football in the local area

I'm about to have a play with something that isn't really the kind of thing I'd normally do but gives another dimension to this save. I am going to edit in an affiliation with another local club and this may grow to a whole network if this idea works. I'm not big on editing things in game as I really don't want to break it but this might work:

Introducing my new club - Barra Mansa:

At just 22km from the city of Volta Redonda - Barra Mansa is the ideal local hub for me to 'build' a separate entity of a team that will not only help me develop players but also develop their own and maybe, just maybe, grow to be another challenger in the Carioca State.

They are currently in the lower leagues and have never entered the top tier of the Carioca State but I'm hoping that this affiliation, as it did with the Perolas Negras one years before, will raise their reputation enough to see them reach the qualifying stages at least.

You may remember this from a few pages back...

It hasn't gone quite to plan. Barra Mansa are in an unplayable level, below another unplayable level (if you know what I mean?!) so for them to make progress, it's literally a lottery. However, they have been able to develop my talent, a little so I'm going to push on with a new club as well, who are a bit higher up the pyramid:

Duque de Caxias is just over three quarters of the way between Volta Redonda and Rio de Janeiro but this Serie D side (just one below the playable level) have a chance of making it into the professional game, and, as such, developing better players. This, again, isn't about developing players for my own club but making the state of Rio stronger and, hopefully, the quality of the State Championship even better.

I have gone for the same options as with Barra Mansa:

---

We pay them some money to 'own' them and they use our facilities and we can loan them some players if I want to.

----

My map now looks like this: (n.b. this is something I want to utilise in FM21, definitely!)

[_Ben_]

2037 Supercopa

Think this Cabral lad we've just got on loan could be decent...

---

My second Supercopa and, following the triumph, was greeted with the draw for the Recopa Sudamerica - another two games, where we face off against Internacional. What is more - with us winning the Liberdatores - we are also entered in the Club World Cup this summer for yet another set of games!

[_Ben_]

Worrying signs

This is a real worry for me.

It is his second torn thigh muscle in four months, as seen below and, although not considered recurring, a real worry to the long term health of this lad. I seem to be referencing @Jimbokav1971 in every post right now but something does ring true about his necessity to not 'over-play' teenagers - Joao has led my line since he was 17. I hope it's not the start of a decline that has already seen his lose:

• Marginal losses in acceleration and agility
• One point loss in strength
• Two point loss in stamina

He's never been that reliant on his physical ability but I'd rather not have to adjust for a lad still in his mid-twenties...

---

EDIT:

On this, I was unsure if the medical report just used a generic body side to show the injury - but it appears to show which leg it was, too:

Tight Calf 1:

Tight Calf 2:

 

Therefore - this appears to be the same thigh muscle, which is not good news.

Edited August 7, 2020 by _Ben_

[_Ben_]

Why I promote youth players...

The Carioca State is a great opportunity for game time but it also lets the kids train with the senior players. The majority of the time, this is what I see:

[Jimbokav1971]

4 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

Worrying signs

This is a real worry for me.

It is his second torn thigh muscle in four months, as seen below and, although not considered recurring, a real worry to the long term health of this lad. I seem to be referencing @Jimbokav1971 in every post right now but something does ring true about his necessity to not 'over-play' teenagers - Joao has led my line since he was 17. I hope it's not the start of a decline that has already seen his lose:

• Marginal losses in acceleration and agility
• One point loss in strength
• Two point loss in stamina

He's never been that reliant on his physical ability but I'd rather not have to adjust for a lad still in his mid-twenties...

I think we are taking it in turns using eachother for evidence. 

My main issue with over-playing youngsters, (and I'm still guilty of it), is that it can significantly impact the player at the other end of his career. I like how you know exactly where he has lost points, but surprised that there has been no corresponding hit to Det, (but maybe that's because it's not an impact injury, (I will have to check that). 

What I would also be looking for is evidence that this is a trend. Was it same thigh? What does the report say about him being injury prone. This isn't a reason to bin off a player, but it might very well be a warning sign that he might not be the reliable player you hoped, and that's even without not just the attribute hits, but the lack of development when he is out. 

There are lots of things that link on from this. 

[_Ben_]

1 minute ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

What I would also be looking for is evidence that this is a trend. Was it same thigh? What does the report say about him being injury prone

Just made that edit!

I was unsure whether the medical report just showed 'a thigh' for a thigh injury but it does not - as I found out above when looking at an old tight calf.  Sadly, it is the same thigh.

2 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

but surprised that there has been no corresponding hit to Det, (but maybe that's because it's not an impact injury, (I will have to check that). 

I think it tends to be Bravery that goes with contact injuries? Never seen Det drop because of that.

3 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

This isn't a reason to bin off a player, but it might very well be a warning sign that he might not be the reliable player you hoped, and that's even without not just the attribute hits, but the lack of development when he is out. 

He's got 356 goals in 520 games for me so I won't be binning him! I just hope that he can return from this injury without serious long term repercussions. I accept he may close out his career earlier due to the earlier start but I have a few records that I'm chasing with him at I hope we can reach.

[_Ben_]

Player Sale

Fernando has his move and I have him for the rest of the season. Pretty much perfect as it gives me a year to develop my next player for this role.

[Jimbokav1971]

7 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

I think it tends to be Bravery that goes with contact injuries? Never seen Det drop because of that.

Of course it is. Silly me. 

[Fosse]

Joao Fernando might have gotten those injuries anyway, it’s rare that a player goes through a career without a couple of serious ones. The same thing could have happened if he had broken through at 21 instead of 17.

[_Ben_]

Windows updates

Thanks to some nice, unscheduled and un-reminded, Windows updates - I've now lost this:

On 07/08/2020 at 14:27, _Ben_ said:

2037 Supercopa

and this:

On 07/08/2020 at 18:37, _Ben_ said:

Worrying signs

and this:

On 07/08/2020 at 18:59, _Ben_ said:

Player Sale

---

Two things I'd rather not have lost and one that I'm quite happy, although feel a little bit 'cheaty' about, have back.

[dagro06]

I have now caught up to all your threads you posted here and man it's impressive. I want to start the same sort of save but with Manaus FC. Would you mind sharing your spreadsheets or show the spreadsheets you use. Cuz it's kinda difficult for me to start up a save like yours. 

[_Ben_]

2037 Recopa Sudamerica

After replying the Supercopa do Brasil, I've also added the South American super cup to my list on honours.

[_Ben_]

1 hour ago, dagro06 said:

I have now caught up to all your threads you posted here and man it's impressive. I want to start the same sort of save but with Manaus FC. Would you mind sharing your spreadsheets or show the spreadsheets you use. Cuz it's kinda difficult for me to start up a save like yours. 

Thanks!

Manaus was my original plan but I decided I preferred the Volta logo in the end.

As for spreadsheets - I've moved away from using them and now really only use the tracker at the end of each season, which is pretty straightforward to make.

[_Ben_]

Karma?

Different type of injury. Longer out. Still just as annoyed.

[dagro06]

That's really annoying, already seen a hit on bravery or physical stats? I hope it didn't!

Edited August 9, 2020 by dagro06
Bad formulating

[dagro06]

Another little question, has this been your most complete save up to date in terms of youth development?

[_Ben_]

2 hours ago, dagro06 said:

That's really annoying, already seen a hit on bravery or physical stats? I hope it didn't!

This is his physical 'development' in the last two years. I don't expect him to gain much at this age but the dip is a concern:

Bravery has remained constant at 16. 

It does continue to make me think about how to bring him back into the team. He was never pacey but now he's considerably less physical than others and I think I'll need him to be even cleverer to exploit spaces.

---

2 hours ago, dagro06 said:

Another little question, has this been your most complete save up to date in terms of youth development?

Wow! What a question!

I, honestly, don't know. My Guadalajara save saw me take a) more of a numerical view to youth development, which I've personally moved away from towards the latter parts of this game and b) produce a lot more world class players. However - I have really enjoyed the view where I've developed a lot of players who'd normally be discarded, and, by moving them on so quickly, have developed a good conveyor belt and a methodology whereby nobody is discarded or not valued.

I'm working on a huge preface for my next save, hoping that this can take me through to FM21, whenever that comes out - whereby I want to mesh the things I've learnt in FM20 together and create a youth development monster save!

[_Ben_]

Giovanni - Player Development

If you've read my threads, you'll have noticed that, countless times, I've made reference to what I feel is a huge thing in the development of a player - and that is starting personality. I have found that, under 18, players develop so much better, so getting them the most ideal personality for development is vital. 

Giovanni came through with 2* gold and 1* black PA and has developed this much in just four months:

What is more - he's either footed so those attributes are slightly lower than what his CA would suggest and his PA has risen to 3* gold and 1* black. There are holes - clearly that concentration is shocking and he's really not strong but he'll get a chance to develop and hopefully move on to another top level club.

 

[_Ben_]

Milestone

[_Ben_]

2037 Campeonato Carioca

My worst Carioca State finish since 2031 and our first league stage defeat since 2028 but we still have come home with the title thanks to two stage final victories, both over Flamengo.

----

As always - I've reflected on player performances and ability in this competition and decided that two more players are being promoted to the first team:

Orlandelli has converted really well into a ball-playing defender and Ernani is making huge strides at a young age and comes into pretty much a rotational option as he is already as good as Joao Carlos, eleven years his senior.

[_Ben_]

Player Sale

An utterly ridiculous deal for Joao Carlos, who, even at 28 was being kept for largely sentimental reasons, isn't that great anyway! I'm back to having a big hole at left back but, in the reality of it, could not turn this kind of offer down!

[-Jef-]

Wonder how long before we see Neyveson Arena!

 

Good sale on Carlos. Not the world beater but certainly not a bad left back.

[_Ben_]

11 minutes ago, rosque said:

Wonder how long before we see Neyveson Arena!

 

Good sale on Carlos. Not the world beater but certainly not a bad left back.

We have a 21k seater stadium but never really have consistently filled it. The board are just knocking back every attempt to build a new one too...

[_Ben_]

2037 Liberdatores group stage review

You could say that we like these group stages! I think that we are still unbeaten in eight years of entering at this group stage.

[_Ben_]

2037 Club World Cup

Well, I'm not making it out of this group...

[Fosse]

Just now, _Ben_ said:

2037 Liberdatores group stage review

You could say that we like these group stages! I think that we are still unbeaten in eight years of entering at this group stage.

Do you have other South American leagues loaded? Quite often in confederations outside of Europe most teams barely have any non-greyed out players which makes continental completion really easy 

[_Ben_]

4 minutes ago, Fosse said:

Do you have other South American leagues loaded? Quite often in confederations outside of Europe most teams barely have any non-greyed out players which makes continental completion really easy 

I did have Argentina for a while but no, nothing else. A little bit of a shame that I'm beating 'grey players' each week but in a season literally full of games, I'll take this one as a victory!

[_Ben_]

Youth Intake preview

The goalkeeper would make it entirely an academy side, so I'm excited about him!

[_Ben_]

2037 Club World Cup Game 1

Smash and grab! We let Barca have 65% of the ball and sat deep but did enough to win late on. Now to not mess this up against Beijing...

[_Ben_]

2037 Club World Cup Game 2

We haven't hit any kind of form but we did just about enough to get through. We face Palmeiras in the Quarter Finals.

[_Ben_]

2037 Club World Cup Game 3

Joao comes back. Joao scores a brace. Never in doubt. We are comfortably better than this Palmeiras side who I'm not even sure of how they have qualified: no Liberdatores nor Sudamerica victories and only a Brasiliero back in 2032 (which I know doesn't qualify you)...

[_Ben_]

2037 Club World Cup Game 4

One step too far. Cabral showed Chelsea fans just what they'll be getting with a wonderful 6.3 rating!

I never expected to get this far and, always expected one of Man City, PSG or now super-power Chelsea to beat us. Our route to the final could have been different as Flamengo made the other semi final and it is they who we face off against in the 3rd Place Playoff - a game I expect to win.