Horrendous bad luck/players forgetting how to play

[OrientTillIDie]

Has anyone had a spell of games where nothing goes right? And I mean literally NOTHING goes right.

I’m seven seasons into an Orient save and in my third season in the Championship, finishing 15th and then 7th in the first two. Tactics are great and have worked in every season with the odd subtle tweak where needed.

Third season has started badly in comparison. I’m 16th in December but it’s the way I’m losing games that’s bothering me. One or two things happen every game without fail.

1) I get a horrendous piece of bad luck. Like a long shot coming in from 30 yards out and it pinballs around the box and somehow their striker pivots with his back to goal and smashes one into the top corner first time. Or I’ll dominate a team from start to finish and not break down their defence (which is fine, it happens), but then their 17 year old youth academy graduate on his debut with no particularly interesting attributes gets the ball and rockets one into the top bins from a million miles out or roasts a volley past my helpless keeper. And it happens at least once in literally EVERY game. Why?!

2) My players suddenly forget what to do with a football. I play with possession based football and these players are good. They know the system, they’re competent and fit it really well. Then all of a sudden, one of them will aimlessly hoof the ball forwards despite there being three options within 20 yards of him that are easy to pick out and 99 times out of 100 he would. Then the opposition break and score. Or my wing back of left centre back who are both excellent on the ball will dawdle out of defence in 30 yards of space with plenty of options to pass to, fanny around on the ball, get robbed and then they break and score. Why?! My strikers who scored 20 goals apiece last season suddenly can’t hit the target from 10 yards. I had one have a one on one opportunity and smash it out for a throw in earlier. How?! 

I know this sort of thing happens on occasions, but EVERY GAME?! Does anyone else get this? How do I stop this? It’s driving me insane.

[Experienced Defender]

Sorry, but without taking a look at your tactic (screenshot), it's absolutely impossible to offer any meaningful answer (or advice). 

3 hours ago, OrientTillIDie said:

Does anyone else get this?

Yes. a lot of people come with the same kind of complaint, claiming their tactics are "great" because they initially worked, but when they eventually post those tactics' screenshots - it usually turns out that they are actually far from great.

[OrientTillIDie]

I posted this originally in the General Discussion area but it got moved. It’s not specifically a tactic thing in my opinion. I’m just curious to know if anyone seems to go on a bad run of luck where long shots that are going wide suddenly take three deflections into the goal or the ball hitting the bar and then my keeper then the post then my defender and trickling agonisingly in.

 

I’ll try and get a screenshot up later when my laptop has finished updating. I just struggle to see how a ball pinballing around before eventually going in or their underwhelming 17 year old banging in a screamer is tactical. 

 

Edit: I’m not saying my tactics are great and the game must be broken. All I said was that it’s worked perfectly well with the players I’ve still got now in the previous season where I finished 7th. I struggle to believe that it has a huge amount to do with the ball going in after taking a thousand deflections in my box.

 

Second edit: I worry I didn’t make myself clear in my first post. I’m dominating games, completely nullifying the opposition at times, plenty of possession, lots of chances. The issue I have is all of my strikers have forgotten how to shoot towards the goal, my defenders (maybe once a game) will suddenly not pass it to an open man, and/or one of their players will have a potshot from distance because they can’t break me down, it’ll hit multiple players before somehow ending up in the back of the net. At least one of those things happens each game. If they’re tactical issues, please explain to me how that’s the case. I’m genuinely curious to know.

Edited May 1, 2020 by OrientTillIDie

[Justified]

How are you easing the pressure off? Some of it sounds like nerves. How's the body language?

Once you're in a funk it's important not to panic but start being a little more encouraging. Even if you think a 1-0 win at home against the bottom club is crap, after a tough time it's good to be generous with praise. Be more demanding when you're in form. Ease the pressure in Press Conferences as well can help.

[OrientTillIDie]

The body language seems to be good. I almost always get the reactions of “players looked motivated” or “run through brick walls”. With my number one striker, I initially tried the individual chat of “I know you can get scoring again” and he reacted well. Seven games later and he’s had about three shots on target. At this point I tried a different approach and told him his place in the team was at risk if he didn’t start scoring (the issue here being that no other striker was scoring so maybe he realised that. I don’t know). Four games later, still nothing. I benched him, brought him on and he scored a beauty to save a point at the end of the game. I congratulated the team on the comeback, praised him for his last game performance. He was grateful. Cut to five games later and he’s averaged 6.58 and hasn’t had a shot on target again despite being in great positions to score. Meanwhile, their striker gets once chance from the edge of the box on his weaker foot and slams it in the top corner. 

[zyfon5]

Do any of your players suffer from a poor run of form? Especially at lower levels the players usually do not have the best consistency. So anyone with a poor run of form can really drag the whole team performance down. And once u start losing games team morale goes down making it harder to win games too

[afailed10]

Yes i feel this year the game is different. Can't exactly pinpoint where but It's the first time i lost the desire to play before the save got stale.

I believe this is a year the ME got more complex as usual but the overall balance of the game is less satisfying than previous editions.

Now pre-match conferences, hidden attributes, media expectation, etc, are more important than ever. They were always in the game but what happens when you mix them all up with unrealistic set pieces and long shots, you end up with a game that can be quite furstrating at times.

I havent played in a couple weeks even with this pandemic because i guess im a bit annoyed too with how i suffer goals. I just got promoted to the first division and i'm about to finish in 2nd place so the results are great. But sometimes i lose or get knocked out the cup which is perfectly normal, but the way it happens is Very, Very repetitive. I usually dominate, say 14 shots on target vs 2 and I lose. What tactical conclusion do i take from this? Do i need better players? So i concede 0 shots on target? It happens sometimes.

Anyway i guess the bottomline is the game takes too much work Now. The AI is strong. If they need goals they will change to a Very well designed attacking tactic, if you aren't much superior, you will concede 2 or 3 goals on 5mins. And careful soaking up the pressure!

 

[OrientTillIDie]

1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

Do any of your players suffer from a poor run of form? Especially at lower levels the players usually do not have the best consistency. So anyone with a poor run of form can really drag the whole team performance down. And once u start losing games team morale goes down making it harder to win games too

I’m in the Championship but I try my best to sign players that don’t have “can be inconsistent” on their scouting report. I appreciate that they’re not elite, top level players but I have almost exactly the same squad as  year that finished 7th and went on a run from mid January of thirteen games unbeaten. So I don’t get the drop off and I struggle to believe my tactics have suddenly stopped working, especially as I’m still dominating games and keeping the opponents largely at bay.

Edit: I should add that morale is high (all at least Good, most much higher) and that the bars on the dynamics page are both Excellent and at the top of the bar. All my players except my strikers, or anyone who makes a mistake, are averaging at least 6.9 a game but usually higher. My strikers though are down in the 6.5s and 6.6s on average because they can’t hit a barn door with a banjo.

Edited May 2, 2020 by OrientTillIDie

[OrientTillIDie]

39 minutes ago, KyleHyde said:

Yes i feel this year the game is different. Can't exactly pinpoint where but It's the first time i lost the desire to play before the save got stale.

I believe this is a year the ME got more complex as usual but the overall balance of the game is less satisfying than previous editions.

Now pre-match conferences, hidden attributes, media expectation, etc, are more important than ever. They were always in the game but what happens when you mix them all up with unrealistic set pieces and long shots, you end up with a game that can be quite furstrating at times.

I havent played in a couple weeks even with this pandemic because i guess im a bit annoyed too with how i suffer goals. I just got promoted to the first division and i'm about to finish in 2nd place so the results are great. But sometimes i lose or get knocked out the cup which is perfectly normal, but the way it happens is Very, Very repetitive. I usually dominate, say 14 shots on target vs 2 and I lose. What tactical conclusion do i take from this? Do i need better players? So i concede 0 shots on target? It happens sometimes.

Anyway i guess the bottomline is the game takes too much work Now. The AI is strong. If they need goals they will change to a Very well designed attacking tactic, if you aren't much superior, you will concede 2 or 3 goals on 5mins. And careful soaking up the pressure!

 

I agree with you. And there doesn’t seem to be a clear explanation. Like you said, do I have to nullify the opposition entirely to win a game? As in, keep them out of my half completely? Because the few occasions they get into my defensive third they’ll get a ridiculous piece of luck which somehow ends up with them grabbing a goal.

Similarly, my forty goal strike partnership from last season are still being provided with chances by the same supporting cast as last season, but this time round they can’t hit the target. Headers from six yards out, one on ones, rebounds. None of them hit the target whereas last season I genuinely sat there at one point and thought to myself that it was borderline unrealistic for all of their shots to be going in. How do I fix that? It’s not tactical which is why I put it in general discussion. I’m passing teams off the park and putting the ball in dangerous areas. What more can I do as the manager?

I also struggle to believe that it’s a tactical thing when any one of my three centre halves (all of whom are competent on the ball and played for me last season) suddenly ignore their partners, and the wing back, and the midfielder that’s come deep to give them an option, all of whom are in YARDS AND YARDS of space, in order to just leather the ball forward in the hope that one of my strikers wins it. I’ve got play out of defence on and they played out all of last season really effectively. So what’s changed? The space for the options is still there to pass to them safely. So don’t leather it, and equally don’t fanny around with the ball until the opposition striker or midfielder robs you of it and gets a free run at my keeper. 

 

[zyfon5]

2 hours ago, OrientTillIDie said:

I’m in the Championship but I try my best to sign players that don’t have “can be inconsistent” on their scouting report. I appreciate that they’re not elite, top level players but I have almost exactly the same squad as  year that finished 7th and went on a run from mid January of thirteen games unbeaten. So I don’t get the drop off and I struggle to believe my tactics have suddenly stopped working, especially as I’m still dominating games and keeping the opponents largely at bay.

Edit: I should add that morale is high (all at least Good, most much higher) and that the bars on the dynamics page are both Excellent and at the top of the bar. All my players except my strikers, or anyone who makes a mistake, are averaging at least 6.9 a game but usually higher. My strikers though are down in the 6.5s and 6.6s on average because they can’t hit a barn door with a banjo.

from your description i could only guess that your opponents are taking you seriously now and stop giving you space to attack like in previous seasons. dominating possession and having more shots is good but they hardly equate to on pitch results. hence u really need to rethink your tactics especially as u are considered a strong team now and what has worked in the past might not work now. sometimes a little tweak to ur original tactic can make a big difference. if the opponents are willing to defend deep, is your tactics well equipped to break down their stubborn defense? these are problems that i see a lot on the tactics forum. their tactics just become less effective on the 3rd or 4th season because their tactics are overly attacking or over reliant on the opponents giving them space to attack. also can u post a few clips about the frustrating things that u described above? i might be able to notice what has gone wrong with your players. it will be great if u include the tactics that u are using that match.

Edit: im not sure whether ur players changed across seasons. not buying new players or buying too many players can be equally bad. what is ur predicted finish at the start of the season?

Edited May 2, 2020 by zyfon5

[Alfie31796]

Currently experiencing this at the minute. Into my 4th season, tactics have been consistently solid but I'm in such a bad run of form and the way I'm losing games is beyond a joke. Zirkzee couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat at the minute, genuinely subbed him off half hour in to my last game because he'd already missed 3 golden opportunities. Winding me up. 

[OrientTillIDie]

8 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

from your description i could only guess that your opponents are taking you seriously now and stop giving you space to attack like in previous seasons. dominating possession and having more shots is good but they hardly equate to on pitch results. hence u really need to rethink your tactics especially as u are considered a strong team now and what has worked in the past might not work now. sometimes a little tweak to ur original tactic can make a big difference. if the opponents are willing to defend deep, is your tactics well equipped to break down their stubborn defense? these are problems that i see a lot on the tactics forum. their tactics just become less effective on the 3rd or 4th season because their tactics are overly attacking or over reliant on the opponents giving them space to attack. also can u post a few clips about the frustrating things that u described above? i might be able to notice what has gone wrong with your players. it will be great if u include the tactics that u are using that match.

Edit: im not sure whether ur players changed across seasons. not buying new players or buying too many players can be equally bad. what is ur predicted finish at the start of the season?

I’ll say again, I’m not struggling with creating chances. I’m carving the opponent open on a regular basis and having 4 or 5 one on ones a game, chances from crosses where my striker is unmarked, strikers missing open goals from rebounds. I refuse to believe it’s tactical when everything but the ball going in the back of the net is happening. And then the opposition score in the most fortunate of circumstances. It’s ridiculous 

[OrientTillIDie]

5 hours ago, Alfie31796 said:

Currently experiencing this at the minute. Into my 4th season, tactics have been consistently solid but I'm in such a bad run of form and the way I'm losing games is beyond a joke. Zirkzee couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat at the minute, genuinely subbed him off half hour in to my last game because he'd already missed 3 golden opportunities. Winding me up. 

I hear you. I just don’t know what the solution is. I’ve tried bigging them up, criticising them, tweaking the tactics (instructions/positions/roles), benching them, sacrificing a goat to the football gods. I’m out of ideas.

[cris182]

It does seem to me in the last week or so my players every time i load the game look like they have forgotten how to play football. Haven't actually checked yet but has there been an update which has changed anything? They have gone from league winners to being unable to play football and concede goals like amateurs

I assume it is just my tactics but it seems to be a complete drop off from the norm, It is like playing a different game suddenly

Edited May 2, 2020 by cris182

[zyfon5]

34 minutes ago, OrientTillIDie said:

I’ll say again, I’m not struggling with creating chances. I’m carving the opponent open on a regular basis and having 4 or 5 one on ones a game, chances from crosses where my striker is unmarked, strikers missing open goals from rebounds. I refuse to believe it’s tactical when everything but the ball going in the back of the net is happening. And then the opposition score in the most fortunate of circumstances. It’s ridiculous 

i assume u are posting here to get ppl to help? at least u need to give ppl a chance to help u then. without knowing anything i dont think anyone can offer any constructive advice. as u have said urself u have tried everything so why not give ppl a chance to help u? if u want to complain about the game there are more appropriate places to do that. 

[Alfie31796]

59 minutes ago, OrientTillIDie said:

I hear you. I just don’t know what the solution is. I’ve tried bigging them up, criticising them, tweaking the tactics (instructions/positions/roles), benching them, sacrificing a goat to the football gods. I’m out of ideas.

League form continued to be horrendous, finished 12th but I did manage to win the Europa League. I think it might've had a lot to do with Josko Gvardiol kicking up a fuss about wanting to leave, stuck him in the U23's after the January transfer window and my form was a little bit better but my strikers still continued to be completely inept in front of goal. Tried everything, praising, criticising, warning to drop them - responded well every time but still they could not score.

I think the influence of Dynamics is so much greater this year than ever before and it seems much more important to have a happy squad. 

Sold Gvardiol to Fulham for £50m and I'm hoping for a bit more success this season. I've signed a Mexican wonderkid to take over the reigns if Zirkzee still isn't performing. 

[Experienced Defender]

12 hours ago, OrientTillIDie said:

I also struggle to believe that it’s a tactical thing when any one of my three centre halves (all of whom are competent on the ball and played for me last season) suddenly ignore their partners, and the wing back, and the midfielder that’s come deep to give them an option, all of whom are in YARDS AND YARDS of space, in order to just leather the ball forward in the hope that one of my strikers wins it

You haven't provided a screenshot of the tactic, but I would guess you play all 3 CBs as BPDs?

[auhsoj]

Holding a team meeting or another method to boost morale could help. 

Analyse your tactic because sometimes, even when you're seemingly dominating games, the problem is still the tactic. What sort of chances do you usually create? If most of your chances are headers or shots from wide angles then maybe it's the tactic. 

Also, do your players have good mental attributes? You say you miss a lot of one on one's, maybe that's down to a low composure attribute?

[OrientTillIDie]

5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

You haven't provided a screenshot of the tactic, but I would guess you play all 3 CBs as BPDs?

Laptop is still in major update mode but I will post as soon as possible. And no, actually. Three competent passers of the ball all on Central Defender with Defend duty. Because I read the guides on how to create tactics and am not an idiot. I tested all the different recommended combinations and this gave me the best results on passing out from the back.

And, as I’ve already said, this has not been a problem in past seasons with these players and they have plenty of options within twenty yards of them to pass to but choose to ignore them

Edited May 2, 2020 by OrientTillIDie

[OrientTillIDie]

7 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

i assume u are posting here to get ppl to help? at least u need to give ppl a chance to help u then. without knowing anything i dont think anyone can offer any constructive advice. as u have said urself u have tried everything so why not give ppl a chance to help u? if u want to complain about the game there are more appropriate places to do that. 

I’m not complaining about the game at all. And I’ll post pictures of my tactic ASAP when my laptop is updated. It’s not tactical though. I’m getting chances, passing teams off the pitch and limiting them to one half chance a game.

[OrientTillIDie]

3 hours ago, auhsoj said:

Holding a team meeting or another method to boost morale could help. 

Analyse your tactic because sometimes, even when you're seemingly dominating games, the problem is still the tactic. What sort of chances do you usually create? If most of your chances are headers or shots from wide angles then maybe it's the tactic. 

Also, do your players have good mental attributes? You say you miss a lot of one on one's, maybe that's down to a low composure attribute?

Team morale, managerial support, individual morale are all really high.

Chances are one on ones straight through the middle or my big striker missing free headers from eight yards out in the middle of the goal.

Players have good mental attributes and got me to 7th last season. Composure is the first attribute I look at in strikers because I hate missing one on ones. 

This isn’t my first rodeo. I study all the guides, I test the tactics thoroughly and they work. But once a game, a defender will temporarily lose his brain and not pass to an open man he’s looking right at. Multiple times a game my strikers will miss chances I could score with my eyes closed.