wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 My assistant advised me that he believes that the players would work better with a different captain in the pre-match analysis. I personally did not believe that the current players stats where upto it anyway. On this advice I then decided to change the captain to my vice captain who's stats where more suited. Now alot of my players believe I changed the captain too quickly and there morale have dropped. Where did my assistant get his beliefs from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbchuz Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 It wouldn't be much fun if our staff were always perfect in their analyses, our scouts always perfectly accurate with their recommendations, etc. Maybe there's a bit of temporary unrest because he was well-liked, but in the longer term they would be better led by a more professional leader? Or maybe the assistant was just wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 It wouldn't be much fun if our staff were always perfect in their analyses, our scouts always perfectly accurate with their recommendations, etc. Maybe there's a bit of temporary unrest because he was well-liked, but in the longer term they would be better led by a more professional leader? Or maybe the assistant was just wrong? I actually believe he was right as the player in question had a balanced personality 8 leadership and 10 determination whereas the player who Ive promoted has fairly sporting personality leadership 12 and 20 determination - he is the best player in the squad for the roll as other players have 12 leadership and alot less determination Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 My assistant advised me that he believes that the players would work better with a different captain in the pre-match analysis.I personally did not believe that the current players stats where upto it anyway. On this advice I then decided to change the captain to my vice captain who's stats where more suited. Now alot of my players believe I changed the captain too quickly and there morale have dropped. Where did my assistant get his beliefs from? Why did you select the first player as Captain to start with? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner475 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 My assistant advised me that he believes that the players would work better with a different captain in the pre-match analysis.I personally did not believe that the current players stats where upto it anyway. On this advice I then decided to change the captain to my vice captain who's stats where more suited. Now alot of my players believe I changed the captain too quickly and there morale have dropped. Where did my assistant get his beliefs from? Always best to change captain at the start of a new season when the option to change captain comes up. The safest way of doing it imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Why did you select the first player as Captain to start with? I didn't he was captain at the club when I took over - started on a journeyman save as unemployed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Always best to change captain at the start of a new season when the option to change captain comes up. The safest way of doing it imo The option had not come up so I was staying with the last managers captain to see what he did and to try and keep the consistancy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneronaldo Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Never trust your Assistant, the only thing he is useful for is giving you reports on how your players stack up in terms of ability/potential. They always pester me to change the set piece takers despite evidence that my players are doing perfectly fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I didn't he was captain at the club when I took over - started on a journeyman save as unemployed Is that maybe a bug then that needs reporting? I thought you always got the option to pick a captain when you took over a club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Is that maybe a bug then that needs reporting?I thought you always got the option to pick a captain when you took over a club. You do eventually at some point during pre-season in your inbox or you can change it in your tactics screen. I decided not to as I originally did not want to upset the harmony of the squad - then listened to my assistant and believed that the squad would be ok if I changed them - but some of the players were not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 You do eventually at some point during pre-season in your inbox or you can change it in your tactics screen. I decided not to as I originally did not want to upset the harmony of the squad - then listened to my assistant and believed that the squad would be ok if I changed them - but some of the players were not So you got the option but selected to keep the same captain despite his attributes not being the best? In which case the function is working as it should, the mistake you made was keeping the same captain at the start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 So you got the option but selected to keep the same captain despite his attributes not being the best?In which case the function is working as it should, the mistake you made was keeping the same captain at the start. It wasn't a mistake as I chose to do it - I wanted to see how the players responded to him as if you get rid of the captain too soon it can affect squad morale and its a decision you have to make The thread is not about my decision on if I was right to keep the captain but that the assistant told me the squad would be happy for him to go - and when I did if negatively affected the squad morale and not positively like the captain advised. If I can I would like to keep the thread on topic of what the assistant advices then it turning out to be wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner475 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 It wasn't a mistake as I chose to do it - I wanted to see how the players responded to him as if you get rid of the captain too soon it can affect squad morale and its a decision you have to makeThe thread is not about my decision on if I was right to keep the captain but that the assistant told me the squad would be happy for him to go - and when I did if negatively affected the squad morale and not positively like the captain advised. If I can I would like to keep the thread on topic of what the assistant advices then it turning out to be wrong Problem is this is just one example. I wouldn't expect your assistant manager to be right all the time, nor would I expect your players to all be happy with the decision. Unless your assistant was always wrong then I really don't see an issue here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 It wasn't a mistake as I chose to do it - I wanted to see how the players responded to him as if you get rid of the captain too soon it can affect squad morale and its a decision you have to make That doesn't apply when you first take over a club, it only applies to your future choices as in your example. Had you chosen the 12L captain first time round you wouldn't have had any issues. The thread is not about my decision on if I was right to keep the captain but that the assistant told me the squad would be happy for him to go - and when I did if negatively affected the squad morale and not positively like the captain advised. If I can I would like to keep the thread on topic of what the assistant advices then it turning out to be wrong Your AM told you who the best captain was in the long term, short term morale loss isn't part of his decision making. In fact he would have told you at your first choice that the current captain wasn't the best choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 That doesn't apply when you first take over a club, it only applies to your future choices as in your example. Had you chosen the 12L captain first time round you wouldn't have had any issues.Your AM told you who the best captain was in the long term, short term morale loss isn't part of his decision making. In fact he would have told you at your first choice that the current captain wasn't the best choice. Please see screenshot showing the captain when I first took over the club, which I have extracted for when I start my teams story in the careers thread. It clearly shows the captain and vice captain already selected by the game. As I have previously stated I did not want to change this as it would have upset the players. Once the AM agreed with me that the captain chosen by the previous manager needed replacing I changed him. This was at the start of the game, however if you read my previous posts you will know that I started the save unemployed and did not choose the club I went to. Therefore the old settings would be there from the previous regime The AM told me that the players could not work under the current captain - he must have gauged this opinion from the dressing room to form it to tell me. Yet when I changed the captain the majority of the squad got upset Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Out of interest, who did you choose as the new captain? I started a new save recently (still toying around with the Beta) and I'm managing the same team. I was asked at the start of the season to make a decision on who should be captain and I had the same two players as the existing Captain and VC. I replaced Negru with Velescu (my own decision and he has 10 for Det in my game) and had no issues with the squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 It clearly shows the captain and vice captain already selected by the game. As I have previously stated I did not want to change this as it would have upset the players. You seem to be missing the point. You would not have upset the players had you changed captain when you were given the chance (when you took over). At that point had you chosen a decent captain (Your AM even gives you a list ordered by suitability) there would have been zero issues. You caused your own problem by choosing an unsuitable captain (probably against your AM's advice) in the first place and then changing your mind a short time later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleaner475 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 When you first join a club one of the first things you're allowed to do is change the clubs captain. As you're a new manager coming in with your own style and regime you are essentially given a free oppurtunity so chose your own captain. Players might disagree with your choice but you won't get a full scale revolt because you've just joined and are asserting yourself as the new manager. However if you wait a few weeks or months and then change the Captain then players will likely complain you haven't given him enough time. After all you endorsed his captaincy when you joined, you were asked if he will stay as captain and you said yes. Therefore changing captain just after endorsing him makes you look like a poor manager and your players won't like it. Hope that explains it better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 You seem to be missing the point.You would not have upset the players had you changed captain when you were given the chance (when you took over). At that point had you chosen a decent captain (Your AM even gives you a list ordered by suitability) there would have been zero issues. You caused your own problem by choosing an unsuitable captain (probably against your AM's advice) in the first place and then changing your mind a short time later. I am only two weeks into pre-season and have not as yet had the message to replace my captain in my inbox - that's why I am experimenting in the tactics screen to change him From what I remember in FM14 - this occurs about 3-4 weeks into pre-season. I have also opened my earlier save when I first took the club which I kept, so I can do a careers thread and I changed the captain straight away and this affected the morale of the players - with alot of them been unhappy. So your point which you state that if you change the captain as soon as you arrive at the club and it does not affect the morale is incorrect With regards to the second point I kept the same captain from the other manager as I did not want to upset the players like I have . It appears you have missed the point. Furthermore the thread is not about who I selected as captain but about the AM telling me that the players will not be upset if I drop him - when they clearly are. They have not even commented on the new captain. They are just upset that I dropped the bad one. Which is not what the assistant told me would happen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Furthermore the thread is not about who I selected as captain but about the AM telling me that the players will not be upset if I drop him - when they clearly are. You don't think this was just a matter of him being wrong? He was offering his advice, but he won't always be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 When you first join a club one of the first things you're allowed to do is change the clubs captain. As you're a new manager coming in with your own style and regime you are essentially given a free oppurtunity so chose your own captain. Players might disagree with your choice but you won't get a full scale revolt because you've just joined and are asserting yourself as the new manager.However if you wait a few weeks or months and then change the Captain then players will likely complain you haven't given him enough time. After all you endorsed his captaincy when you joined, you were asked if he will stay as captain and you said yes. Therefore changing captain just after endorsing him makes you look like a poor manager and your players won't like it. Hope that explains it better I agree that I endorsed the captain, by keeping him there. My issue was that the AM who works with the players informed me that they wouldn't be upset if I changed them - but they where. So he lied and his advice was founded on nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 You don't think this was just a matter of him being wrong? He was offering his advice, but he won't always be right. I agree he won't always be right but surely he would have a feel for the dressing room and hear murmurings to form his opinion before he comes out and states that the players will not perform as well with ++++ as captain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Out of interest, who did you choose as the new captain? I started a new save recently (still toying around with the Beta) and I'm managing the same team. I was asked at the start of the season to make a decision on who should be captain and I had the same two players as the existing Captain and VC. I replaced Negru with Velescu (my own decision and he has 10 for Det in my game) and had no issues with the squad. I chose Dorin Semehgin due to his determination. I am only 2 weeks in and have not had an inbox message as yet to choose the captain. I changed it on the tactics panel so that the players can quicky get used to him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I agree he won't always be right but surely he would have a feel for the dressing room and hear murmurings to form his opinion before he comes out and states that the players will not perform as well with ++++ as captain I don't know exactly which attributes play a part in the quality of his advice, but that ass man has 8 for Man Management in my game. He's not going to give the best advice all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 I don't know exactly which attributes play a part in the quality of his advice, but that ass man has 8 for Man Management in my game. He's not going to give the best advice all the time. Thanks for that - however I changed the assistant manager to Brian Stein who has a 14 for man managment, 16 level of discipline, 15 motivation. Therefore I thought his opinion would have been ok with the high stats - how wrong was I. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Thanks for that - however I changed the assistant manager to Brian Stein who has a 14 for man managment, 16 level of discipline, 15 motivation. Therefore I thought his opinion would have been ok with the high stats - how wrong was I. That's how you learn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I am only two weeks into pre-season and have not as yet had the message to replace my captain in my inbox - that's why I am experimenting in the tactics screen to change himFrom what I remember in FM14 - this occurs about 3-4 weeks into pre-season. Why are you messing around with the captain then? I have also opened my earlier save when I first took the club which I kept, so I can do a careers thread and I changed the captain straight away and this affected the morale of the players - with alot of them been unhappy. So your point which you state that if you change the captain as soon as you arrive at the club and it does not affect the morale is incorrect I meant when you get the friggin option not on day 1! With regards to the second point I kept the same captain from the other manager as I did not want to upset the players like I have . It appears you have missed the point. You haven't even reached the point where you choose your captain. Furthermore the thread is not about who I selected as captain but about the AM telling me that the players will not be upset if I drop him - when they clearly are. They have not even commented on the new captain. They are just upset that I dropped the bad one. Which is not what the assistant told me would happen Again you haven't reached the point at which you have the option to change captain, change it when the option comes round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars_Blackmon Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Never trust your Assistant, the only thing he is useful for is giving you reports on how your players stack up in terms of ability/potential. They always pester me to change the set piece takers despite evidence that my players are doing perfectly fine. Yet the assist manager wasn't wrong in his assesment, he siad he believe that the other player would be a better captian and he was right. He didn't say that the team wouldn't care if you replaced the current captain... My current Asst manager does a decent job when I use him for advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Why are you messing around with the captain then? Simple reason is I set my team up and want them working for the best captain soon to get used to him more or less straight away. I waited 2 weeks to see how the players reacted to the existing captain and my AM told me they didint want to play under him - whats the point in waiting for the option when friendlies have been arranged before you have the option to change the captain. I meant when you get the friggin option not on day 1! Maybe you could have explained that better in your original post instead of what you said which make it now sound like your contradicting yourself lol From my experinece on previous FM's it wouldnt make any difference as the morale is affected whether you change it when you are told in your inbox or through tactics on day oe. If the players don't like the change they will be unhappy for a while Anyhow my thread is not about the time you change the captain. It is about why the assistant is advising to change captain and making out that the players wont be unhappy but when do do they are - so could we try to keep it on topic please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc1 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Changing captain has always been an issue with me, when any new manager comes into a club, there will always be a good chance he'll change the captain or even bring in his own to work with the team and any captain there prior should understand this might happen when a new manager takes over. I find talking to him first to explain that you're thinkng of changing captain and thank him for what he's done usually helps, then the rest of the squad are happier, maybe even make him vice captain instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Anyhow my thread is not about the time you change the captain. It is about why the assistant is advising to change captain and making out that the players wont be unhappy but when do do they are - so could we try to keep it on topic please Have we not already covered that?? Your AM just follows the coding which has advised you that your captain isn't the best choice in the long term. All you had to do was wait until the appropriate time and change him for a better one and you wouldn't have had a problem. Its not your choice of captain but the fact you keep changing your mind which has caused the morale drop, the AM isn't coded to pick up on that. Its just an example of you bypassing the expected way of doing something and getting a slightly unexpected result. Don't use the tactic screen to change captain, wait until you get the option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazza Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Have we not already covered that??Your AM just follows the coding which has advised you that your captain isn't the best choice in the long term. All you had to do was wait until the appropriate time and change him for a better one and you wouldn't have had a problem. Its not your choice of captain but the fact you keep changing your mind which has caused the morale drop, the AM isn't coded to pick up on that. Its just an example of you bypassing the expected way of doing something and getting a slightly unexpected result. Don't use the tactic screen to change captain, wait until you get the option. As I'll be starting again for the main game - I will change the captain as you advised when I am told to in the inbox - however on FM14 when I changed the captainat the time you suggested the morale still dropped - so Im guessing it will be the same on FM15. So it will not matter when you change the captain as previous versions. The AM though imo should not advise that the players will support the dropping of the existing captain when in fact they won't as they get upset when he is dropped. It is a case of the AM getting his opinion wrong and not reading the players and giving the incorrect advice which is the point of the thread. Not to trust your staff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tieio Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Yeah, the help in the game itself is minimal, something a lot of people have said in the past. The game should have more reliable staff and things within the game to make it easier to understand for players who maybe do not understand the game of football as well as the veterans. It is taken for granted by the games creators that everyone must know the game or why would they play it? I doubt fresh eyes are taken into account very often which is a shame, last season I taught several new people how to play the game. It is sad but true, for the most part your staff are useless and backroom advice meetings just epitomize it. The best thing you can do is take it all with a grain of salt and not make hasty choices based on the advice of an AI that is not programmed to help you directly but merely offer suggestions for things you could do. They do lack a sense of timing, without question and that seems to be the majority of the issue in this instance. This is a morale manager game now so you must be careful what you do. Next time I am sure you will remember to change the captain at the appropriate time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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