The Manchester United thread 2006/2007 - featuring BBB leaving early

[pjburrage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pjburrage:

yeah he's had him scouted, but why not make a move for him? Transfer fee would have been around £7-9m before the World Cup, now his fee is going to be easily £15m. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

where'd you get that number from pj? 7-9m??? jesus wept you've been reading the red tops haven't you?

MSI paid 10m for him just a couple of seasons ago, they were never going to sell him for less than nearly double that world cup or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

fixed tbh. The deals that bought him and Tevez to Brazil are not exactly as solid in terms of fee paid by the club as us signing Smith, and the fee they paid was closer to £8m ($15m) anyway.

[Scatter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

Do you watch football?

We are talking about defensive midfielders and Carrick is about as much of a defensive midfielder as Gerrard is.

Carrick is a Deep lying playmaker, much like the kind of player Seba used to be in midfield. He's not a defensive midfielder.

Hargreaves and Carrick would actually compliment each other very well in a side with Rooney up front. Which is why i'd take them both.

Neither are really better than the other as they're different players who bring different things to the table. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

are you always a pretentious git that doesn't read?

i didn't mention defensive midfielder. not once have i said anything about a defensive midfielder. i just said hargreaves isn't good enough for us, the opined that carrick is a better player in contradiction to a statement from ajw10.

we really should get that thread title changed. shut it carter.

[goon]

Theres talk about Mascherano moving for around £15m and he is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carrick tbh. then again it wouldnt be the first time utd pay over the odds for an english player.

[Scatter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

it wouldnt be the first time utd pay over the odds for an english player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if that's a dig at rooney i am going to reach down the internet and smack you. hard.

[Confused Clarity]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

we really should get that thread title changed. shut it carter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, because you really talk a lot more sense about football than me don't you

[ajw10]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

it wouldnt be the first time utd pay over the odds for an english player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if that's a dig at rooney i am going to reach down the internet and smack you. hard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

goon why did you say that? You know the name Jeffers will come up eventually.

[goon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

it wouldnt be the first time utd pay over the odds for an english player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if that's a dig at rooney i am going to reach down the internet and smack you. hard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

rio actually.

[ajw2255]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

it wouldnt be the first time utd pay over the odds for an english player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if that's a dig at rooney i am going to reach down the internet and smack you. hard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He could be on about Rio,

Or Smith, or Andy Cole......?

I dont know

[goon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajw10:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

it wouldnt be the first time utd pay over the odds for an english player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if that's a dig at rooney i am going to reach down the internet and smack you. hard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

goon why did you say that? You know the name Jeffers will come up eventually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SILENCE aj!

[ajw2255]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajw10:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

it wouldnt be the first time utd pay over the odds for an english player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if that's a dig at rooney i am going to reach down the internet and smack you. hard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

goon why did you say that? You know the name Jeffers will come up eventually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SILENCE aj! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was gonna mention him, but i thought id avoid the confrontation

[ajw10]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajw10:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

it wouldnt be the first time utd pay over the odds for an english player. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if that's a dig at rooney i am going to reach down the internet and smack you. hard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

goon why did you say that? You know the name Jeffers will come up eventually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SILENCE aj! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

goon trying to act tough

[Scatter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

rio actually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

errr... no. plenty of others you could have named, but not rio. 30m for one of the worlds best centre backs with years ahead of him, not a bad piece of business at all.

[ajw10]

Rio's quality but £30m is way too much.

[pjburrage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

rio actually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

errr... no. plenty of others you could have named, but not rio. 30m for one of the worlds best centre backs with years ahead of him, not a bad piece of business at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

tbh at the time it was great business, but it is made to look worse due to the way the transfer fee's/Leed's collapsed shortly afterwards.

[goon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

rio actually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

errr... no. plenty of others you could have named, but not rio. 30m for one of the worlds best centre backs with years ahead of him, not a bad piece of business at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah you got a real bargain there.. poor old leeds getting ripped off. You got smith for a real cut price to, considering leeds were almost bankrupt and relegated /o\

[Scatter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

we really should get that thread title changed. shut it carter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, because you really talk a lot more sense about football than me don't you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

a safe assumption, you're welsh ffs.

[Scatter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajw10:

Rio's quality but £30m is way too much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah, because defensively we didn't fall apart without him when he was banned /o\

rio ifffffffffffb.

juve paid nearly as much for one of the worlds best keepers, i don't see that being much different. rio was worth every penny (even if we could have got him much cheaper a year later).

[No Longer Bling]

considering that rio has gone on to become one of the worlds best centre backs and the massive importance to our team he is, he was worth every single penny.

he's worth it for THAT goal alone tbh.

[No Longer Bling]

and im firmly on the 'not good enough' hargreaves band wagon. if this has been brought up a few weeks back it would have been a page of laughter followed by the odd 'well he cant be THAT sh*t guys, he plays for bayern!'.

a decent game (not half as impressive as some would have you believe) and he's suddenly to the top of our must have list. get to ****.

[No Longer Bling]

and finally id like to wish myself a happy birthday for yesterday. cheers.

[snipersdream]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

rio actually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

errr... no. plenty of others you could have named, but not rio. 30m for one of the worlds best centre backs with years ahead of him, not a bad piece of business at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tbf, given that the transfer market was collapsing, and that Leeds were financially screwed at the time, we paid at least £5m over the odds for Rio. Nesta and Cannavaro moved for about £33m combined, that same summer.

[player_65]

I wouldn't mind Hargreaves. That England performance is irrelevant for me (seen enough of him beforehand), all it did was show some people who so vehemently despise him hes quite a good player.

Not top shelf certainly, but very good at what he does. He and Carrick together would be quite good although Mascherano & anyone would be better

[player_65]

yeah we were a week or three too early on Rio I think. Had we waited a little longer we may have got him for less.

Happy birthday for yesterday btw Bling.

[Confused Clarity]

tbf Bling, the people all saying he'd be a good signing, Me, pete, Nick and Keyser have all sung his praises throughout the season as a viable alternative if we couldnt get our main targets, its hardly come from nowhere, it's just that we're being a bit more vocal right now.

[Keyser]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by No Longer Bling:

and im firmly on the 'not good enough' hargreaves band wagon. if this has been brought up a few weeks back it would have been a page of laughter followed by the odd 'well he cant be THAT sh*t guys, he plays for bayern!'.

a decent game (not half as impressive as some would have you believe) and he's suddenly to the top of our must have list. get to ****. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

he is great for Bayern, but then they have a manager who knows where to play him. we do not.

[No Longer Bling]

i see hargreaves as a viable alternative to getting no one in and being stuck with the shower we had last year, but id like to think it would be a desperate 'we cant bring anyone else in, theyve realised were on the slide' move rather than a 'lets not look at mascherano alex, lets take a peek at that canadian lad that plays for england'.

my biggest fear was one i mentioned in the last thread about him. i genuinely believe he would often be used in every other position bar his natural one with fergie 'experimenting'. hargreaves has the unfortunate tag of being a jack of all trades.

[No Longer Bling]

i could have just skipped the last part and put 'what keyser said'.

[goon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Keyser:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by No Longer Bling:

and im firmly on the 'not good enough' hargreaves band wagon. if this has been brought up a few weeks back it would have been a page of laughter followed by the odd 'well he cant be THAT sh*t guys, he plays for bayern!'.

a decent game (not half as impressive as some would have you believe) and he's suddenly to the top of our must have list. get to ****. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

he is great for Bayern, but then they have a manager who knows where to play him. we do not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

having a dig a Fergie or even more shocking if a utd fan means england when he says "we"

[Rb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goon:

having a dig a Fergie or even more shocking if a utd fan means england when he says "we" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously didn't read the last thread much did you.

[Rb]

As for Owen, I personally haven't seen enough of the guy to say he's a good option.

I think someone who has been a fixture in the Bayern squad for so long really can't be all that bad, and if we are still going to sign Carrick we will need someone of Owen's mould next to him in the centre, but all the same I don't think he would be worth getting at all for anything over 8 million.

[No Longer Bling]

i cant begin to express how much i want cambiasso at united. for me he's THE target, above even mascherano.

[jimmymc]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

Right lads, I've just acquired some interesting information about which teams are listed as our rivals in the upcoming FM2007. Thought you might find this interesting:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Liverpool 21

Man City 19

Leeds 18

Arsenal 17

Chelsea 15

Blackburn 14

Newcastle 13

Bolton 12

West Ham 11

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've only just stopped laughing at everyone below the top three, and I was told this ten minutes ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thought it only went up to 20. They are well wrong on the ammount but at least there in the right order. The bottom 5 are irrelevant though.

[McMaster#28]

21 is a special case for the most fiece of rivals. e.g. boca/river.

Apparently the Liverpool/Man Utd is as bad as the river/boca one.

[Confused Clarity]

somebody rates the liverpool/Man Utd rivalry on the same level as boca/river and celtic/rangers?

That man really is sad.

[Rage1999]

it is to a certain extent

[Crilly]

it's pretty close imo

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by No Longer Bling:

i cant begin to express how much i want cambiasso at united. for me he's THE target, above even mascherano. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cambiasso's pretty handy but if we do one thing this summer, we have to sign Mascherano. I'd happily see us ***** our whole transfer budget to get him. Hell, I'd sell my body if the extra £20 would make the difference between getting him and not.

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

somebody rates the liverpool/Man Utd rivalry on the same level as boca/river and celtic/rangers?

That man really is sad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, there's not massive amounts in it tbf.

[Scatter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

somebody rates the liverpool/Man Utd rivalry on the same level as boca/river and celtic/rangers?

That man really is sad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

we really should get that thread title changed. shut it carter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, because you really talk a lot more sense about football than me don't you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

a safe assumption, you're welsh ffs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[pjburrage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

somebody rates the liverpool/Man Utd rivalry on the same level as boca/river and celtic/rangers?

That man really is sad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shut it Carter.

[player_65]

Mascherano was absolutely fantastic in that Argie game, sign him for christ's sake.

On Argentina aswell, what have people thought of Gaby's performances? I know some think he'd go well at centre-half and he's been playing as one in a back four during the World Cup.

[player_65]

Mascherano was absolutely fantastic in that Argie game, sign him for christ's sake.

On Argentina aswell, what have people thought of Gaby's performances? I know some think he'd go well at centre-half and he's been playing as one in a back four during the World Cup.

[ajw2255]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by player_65:

Mascherano was absolutely fantastic in that Argie game, sign him for christ's sake.

On Argentina aswell, what have people thought of Gaby's performances? I know some think he'd go well at centre-half and he's been playing as one in a back four during the World Cup. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gaby did well in the group games, but made a few mistakes yesterday.

Id be happy to put him in CB with Rio and have Evra at left back.

[Young Jimlad]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by No Longer Bling:

i cant begin to express how much i want cambiasso at united. for me he's THE target, above even mascherano. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cambiasso's pretty handy but if we do one thing this summer, we have to sign Mascherano. I'd happily see us ***** our whole transfer budget to get him. Hell, I'd sell my body if the extra £20 would make the difference between getting him and not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whs (thats right I abbreviated), minus the body selling thing...

[foobR]

Heinze has always played centre back for Argies, 'coz they used to play a back 3, of which he was one of them. Think their back 4 is a more recent thing?

Mascherano pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease

[Young Jimlad]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ajw2255:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by player_65:

Mascherano was absolutely fantastic in that Argie game, sign him for christ's sake.

On Argentina aswell, what have people thought of Gaby's performances? I know some think he'd go well at centre-half and he's been playing as one in a back four during the World Cup. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gaby did well in the group games, but made a few mistakes yesterday.

Id be happy to put him in CB with Rio and have Evra at left back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree:

1st game - played well, but probably running on adrenaline(sp?)

2nd game - not tested really was he?

3rd game - didn't play

4th game - looked like a guy who wasn't up to match speed despite a full recovery period.

Even in the first two games, depite how Heinze played its got to be said that Ayala (despite his age) has played really well so far for the Argies so any deficiencies that Gabby might have had were masked before last night, the only real test they've had so far. Against the Dutch I've got to say that I was impressed by Gabby Milito as well.

For me its still Rio > Wes > Viddy > Gabby > Silvestre at CB with Pique an unknown quantity still, whilst at LB its still Gabby > Silvestre > Evra.

[Ryno]

I think Heinze is a bit out of sorts at CB, doesn't seem to be playing very well at all there. Should have been sent off yesterday aswell.

[Young Jimlad]

Also what foobs said is correct about them using a back three, to which Gabby is probably more suited given his proficiency in both positions, otherwise LB is his best position from what I've seen of him in the centre.

And I've decided to compromise, rather than sell my body ala nick, I will happily donate money to the club, but only into a specifically set up "Sign Javier Mascherano Now Fund".

[player_65]

Yes I know he's played centre-half in a back 3, but now they're playing a back 4 which is more relevant since that is what we play.

He hasn't excelled from what I've seen - Ayala has been covering him a bit, but after 10 months off it is not easy to say if that's rustiness or just average play. Ayala is a player I really like, I was so pleased when we were heavily linked with him a few years ago, in fact I'd still be happy to sign him now.

As far as rating Gaby at centre-back goes, Jimlad's ">" list is the same as mine.

[Confused Clarity]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

somebody rates the liverpool/Man Utd rivalry on the same level as boca/river and celtic/rangers?

That man really is sad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, there's not massive amounts in it tbf. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd agree with that, but i'd not say that it was an utterly fierce rivalry to the levels like it is with those two specifically. It can be pretty intense at times, but it really doesnt reach the levels of those clubs. Which is my whole point.