The Manchester United thread 2006/2007 - featuring BBB leaving early

[Dean Gripton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

Right lads, I've just acquired some interesting information about which teams are listed as our rivals in the upcoming FM2007. Thought you might find this interesting:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Liverpool 21

Man City 19

Leeds 18

Arsenal 17

Chelsea 15

Blackburn 14

Newcastle 13

Bolton 12

West Ham 11

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've only just stopped laughing at everyone below the top three, and I was told this ten minutes ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was the data used in FM2006. Like the entire database, the data is being updated this month for the club data for FM2007. As I have not yet received that file from the Man Utd researcher and there are quite literally months remaining before the database is locked for FM2007, I am keen to establish how you 'know' that Man Utd's rivals will be the same for FM2007.

Anyway, now that the issue has been brought up, I'd like to know what sort of figures should be given for Man Utd's rivals. All serious suggestions considered.

And referring to what clubs rate Man Utd as their 'rivals', local clubs such as Oldham will consider them as rivals and raise their game if you will ever meet. A rivalry does not have to be two-way (note how Stockport and Bury put so much more into their games with Citeh in the last 90s than Citeh did.)

[ACou2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Juni:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Juni even gets his SI data from google </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am Google. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I have a bone to pick with you.. why are there no image results for Jenas' girlfriend?

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Francis Cole:

Just remember guys. This is the guy who YOU voted as your non-Man Utd user of the year </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but we've already established that all the awards were a bit of a joke this year.

[Master Blasta]

Blaine when you starting the FCUM thread?

[Father Senegal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gripper:

As I have not yet received that file from the Man Utd researcher </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear lord what a poor show, I did mine aaaaaages ago.

[McMaster#28]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Father Senegal:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gripper:

As I have not yet received that file from the Man Utd researcher </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear lord what a poor show, I did mine aaaaaages ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

About 1 hour before the deadline, and missing out half of the academy players?

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gripper:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

Right lads, I've just acquired some interesting information about which teams are listed as our rivals in the upcoming FM2007. Thought you might find this interesting:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Liverpool 21

Man City 19

Leeds 18

Arsenal 17

Chelsea 15

Blackburn 14

Newcastle 13

Bolton 12

West Ham 11

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've only just stopped laughing at everyone below the top three, and I was told this ten minutes ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was the data used in FM2006. Like the entire database, the data is being updated this month for the club data for FM2007. As I have not yet received that file from the Man Utd researcher and there are quite literally months remaining before the database is locked for FM2007, I am keen to establish how you 'know' that Man Utd's rivals will be the same for FM2007.

Anyway, now that the issue has been brought up, I'd like to know what sort of figures should be given for Man Utd's rivals. All serious suggestions considered.

And referring to what clubs rate Man Utd as their 'rivals', local clubs such as Oldham will consider them as rivals and raise their game if you will ever meet. A rivalry does not have to be two-way (note how Stockport and Bury put so much more into their games with Citeh in the last 90s than Citeh did.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was unfairly led to believe this was FM07 data. Give Phil a slap for me.

I understand other clubs having us as rivals when we may not consider them so. We're more than used to that from the likes of Bolton, Newcastle, West Ham etc.

Serious suggestions as to what the figures should be for our rivals?

Liverpool 20 (transfers do occasionally happen, we're talking incredibly rarely but it's incorrect to say it never happens)

Manchester City 20

Leeds 18

Those three are the biggies. Below that you'd maybe have Everton at about 10, Arsenal at 7/8. Maybe chuck Bolton in at 5/6.

All the others listed - Newcastle, West Ham, Chelsea, Blackburn - I'd be amazed if you could find a United fan who considers them genuine rivals. Chelsea are an odd case I guess, but the other three aren't rivals in any vague way.

[ACou2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Francis Cole:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Father Senegal:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gripper:

As I have not yet received that file from the Man Utd researcher </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear lord what a poor show, I did mine aaaaaages ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

About 1 hour before the deadline, and missing out half of the academy players? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Father Senegal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Francis Cole:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Father Senegal:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gripper:

As I have not yet received that file from the Man Utd researcher </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear lord what a poor show, I did mine aaaaaages ago. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

About 1 hour before the deadline, and missing out half of the academy players? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Academy players that arent there anymore?

[James07?]

Liverpool 20

Leeds 18

City 17

Arsenal 11

Chelsea 11

Bolton 8

Blackburn 5

Newcastle 5

Everton 4

West Ham 2

[Father Senegal]

and I was a day late actually

[McMaster#28]

So I said you were early and you were actually late

I was trying to stick up for you

[ACou2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

Liverpool 20

Leeds 18

City 17

Arsenal 11

Chelsea 11

Bolton 8

Blackburn 5

Newcastle 5

Everton 4

West Ham 2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd say that's about right. Maybe City equal to Leeds.

[Father Senegal]

Actually that reminds me I forgot to tell Pete that Kieran Agard has joined the Everton Academy.

[Nick OGS20]

Does each club need a minimum number of rivals btw Gripper?

I suppose Chelsea after the Obi Mikel issue and they way they generally go about things deserve a place, but I don't see that Blackburn/Newcastle are rivals at all. Any tensions there may have been there are about a decade passed now.

[Blaine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Master Blasta:

Blaine when you starting the FCUM thread? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you think one is required? As far as I know, there are only four Off Topic posters (Deanb, Redblood being the other two) who are fans.

The rest of the thread last year was filled with the usual questions from outsiders, 'what's wrong with Glazer?' 'why don't you follow Bury/Stockport/Rochdale?' 'won't it be top if you played United in the FA Cup?'

[Master Blasta]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blaine:

Do you think one is required? As far as I know, there are only four Off Topic posters (Deanb, Redblood being the other two) who are fans.

The rest of the thread last year was filled with the usual questions from outsiders, 'what's wrong with Glazer?' 'why don't you follow Bury/Stockport/Rochdale?' 'won't it be top if you played United in the FA Cup?' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, the old one is locked now though

[Barry Cartman]

City 17 James :/

I'd expect that from the non Mancs on here, but not you

[Nick OGS20]

Liverpool = Citeh > Leeds has always been my ranking of the unholy trinity, but tbf I've never been to Elland Road.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eric Cartman:

City 17 James :/

I'd expect that from the non Mancs on here, but not you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's a non-manc

[Barry Cartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

He's a non-manc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He used to live in Manchester though didn't he?

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

Liverpool = Citeh > Leeds has always been my ranking of the unholy trinity, but tbf I've never been to Elland Road. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

City below Liverpool and Leeds for me. Probably only so near the other two because of the greater number of their fans you have to put up with after they beat you.

[James07?]

aye, and it's not really true either. It's just I'm having an anti-Leeds day.

18 each really.

[Blaine]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Master Blasta:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blaine:

Do you think one is required? As far as I know, there are only four Off Topic posters (Deanb, Redblood being the other two) who are fans.

The rest of the thread last year was filled with the usual questions from outsiders, 'what's wrong with Glazer?' 'why don't you follow Bury/Stockport/Rochdale?' 'won't it be top if you played United in the FA Cup?' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, the old one is locked now though </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe start one at the start of the season if you fancy it? Otherwise I will continue to post my drunken ramblings in here to the annoyance of everyone else.

[James07?]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eric Cartman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

He's a non-manc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He used to live in Manchester though didn't he? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll just let the two of you continue to talk about me

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eric Cartman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

He's a non-manc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He used to live in Manchester though didn't he? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Going to Uni and staying a bit longer is hardly the same thing though.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eric Cartman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

He's a non-manc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He used to live in Manchester though didn't he? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll just let the two of you continue to talk about me </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Keep out of this, Brum boy.

[McMaster#28]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Does each club need a minimum number of rivals btw Gripper? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, a club could have 0 if thats what the researcher wanted.

[Barry Cartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

City below Liverpool and Leeds for me. Probably only so near the other two because of the greater number of their fans you have to put up with after they beat you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely thats the whole point of a rivalry

[Nick OGS20]

Are you Gripper?

[Barry Cartman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Going to Uni and staying a bit longer is hardly the same thing though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah right always thought he was from there

I didn't want to ask him direct after only giving us 17, any future questions regarding James will be done through you Mark

[Dean Gripton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

Does each club need a minimum number of rivals btw Gripper?

I suppose Chelsea after the Obi Mikel issue and they way they generally go about things deserve a place, but I don't see that Blackburn/Newcastle are rivals at all. Any tensions there may have been there are about a decade passed now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are no limits either maximum or minimum.

Your point about Blackburn and Newcastle are very fair and I'll ensure this is changed.

Good stuff.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eric Cartman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Going to Uni and staying a bit longer is hardly the same thing though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah right always thought he was from there

I didn't want to ask him direct after only giving us 17, any future questions regarding James will be done through you Mark </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm his official biographer.

Technically you could say i'm from Stockport, so i don't count either

[Blaine]

Gripper, will MUFC be removed from FCUM's rivals this year?

[James07?]

Don't agree about Newcastle / Blackburn. OK there is no rivalry as such, but there's 'something' that lifts them above the rank boredom of a Boro, Southampton or Charlton.

[ACou2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

Don't agree about Newcastle / Blackburn. OK there is no rivalry as such, but there's 'something' that lifts them above the rank boredom of a Boro, Southampton or Charlton. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but surely that's more to do with the boringness of the latter sides rather than any rivalry with the former at all?

Maybe there should be a "teams you really dont care about at all" list too

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ACou2000:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

Don't agree about Newcastle / Blackburn. OK there is no rivalry as such, but there's 'something' that lifts them above the rank boredom of a Boro, Southampton or Charlton. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah but surely that's more to do with the boringness of the latter sides rather than any rivalry with the former at all?

Maybe there should be a "teams you really dont care about at all" list too </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aye

It all depends on how the SI guys are defining the term 'rival' really. Newcastle/Blackburn/West Ham come nowhere near meeting my definition of rival, and from what I've gathered from speaking to Phil and so on, that's largely the definition SI are going off. Might well be wrong there though.

[James07?]

does getting beat by them hurt more than if it was Charlton?

If the answer is yes, there's some degree of rivalry there.

[ACou2000]

Not for me really :/

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

Aye

It all depends on how the SI guys are defining the term 'rival' really. Newcastle/Blackburn/West Ham come nowhere near meeting my definition of rival, and from what I've gathered from speaking to Phil and so on, that's largely the definition SI are going off. Might well be wrong there though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

we've all seen the relability of that particular source today

[ACou2000]

Although I would be pretty depressed if we lost to any side with Boumsong in it

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

does getting beat by them hurt more than if it was Charlton?

If the answer is yes, there's some degree of rivalry there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blackburn, no. West Ham, no. Newcastle, only because we'd have to put up with BG winking and gloating.

[James07?]

blackburn away last season ruins your argument James. We lost and we loved it.

oh yeah

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20?:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

does getting beat by them hurt more than if it was Charlton?

If the answer is yes, there's some degree of rivalry there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blackburn, no. West Ham, no. Newcastle, only because we'd have to put up with BG winking and gloating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Newcastle lost the last, tiny extra sting when Shearer retired.

[Nick OGS20]

I was going to say both of what the last two posts said

[Father Senegal]

I measure rivalry on history/local rivalry first, and more recent 'footballing' rivalry second.

imo its important to the realism of the game that the 'match' reflects the rivalry that we've seen on the pitch/among fans in recent years.

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Father Senegal:

I measure rivalry on history/local rivalry first, and more recent 'footballing' rivalry second.

imo its important to the realism of the game that the 'match' reflects the rivalry that we've seen on the pitch/among fans in recent years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree with that, but does the game itself not cater for that? I mean, surely the game is coded so that there's always rivalries between the teams fighting for titles?

If you have to manually create those rivalries at the start of a game - and as such give a particular club an artificially high 'rival rating' - what happens when that particular club (or indeed the club you're managing) is no longer challenging for that title? What if one gets relegated? That rivalry still exists, when in real life, it wouldn't.

[Father Senegal]

I guess thats why you adjust the rivalry ratings with each database update, ie twice a year.

and tbh this info is built into a word doc, so I have no idea how SI input it into the AI or whatever.

I only bothered with four clubs as Arsenals rivals.

[Father Senegal]

I guess thats why you adjust the rivalry ratings with each database update, ie twice a year.

and tbh this info is built into a word doc, so I have no idea how SI input it into the AI or whatever.

I only bothered with four clubs as Arsenals rivals.

[Mika]

I get up late and I miss two full pages, I'm falling behind