FM 2013: Manchester United Team Guide : Who needs Batman when we have Robin!

[Seba Gibbon]

For me in a 4-4-2 deep lying forward support, with a Poacher on attack. I sometimes had him and Rooney switch positions so they took it in turns being the furthest forward.

In a 4-4-1-1, i'd try him as poacher. A 4-4-2 with a Poacher and a deep forward on support is similar to a 4-4-1-1 as one will drop off, both he and Rooney have the 'comes deep' preferred move as well. Personally i prefer that set up.

[scott MUFC]

try getting welbeck some games, he makes a decent lone striker if you can get him a bit of training in his strongest area.

[tomtuck01]

try getting welbeck some games, he makes a decent lone striker if you can get him a bit of training in his strongest area.

Depends what you consider to be his strongest area.

[scott MUFC]

it says next to his picture should be a list of positions, like poacher, deep laying forward Etc, basicaly train that.

[tomtuck01]

it says next to his picture should be a list of positions, like poacher, deep laying forward Etc, basicaly train that.

The point I was making is that it's up to you to decide. Look at his attributes and you can decide for yourself on role and indeed position.

For example, when I was Ajax a young player joined the club in the first season, (prearranged transfer, so couldn't cancel it), and he was an AML/R with an "Unconvinncing" rating at WBL. I looked at his attributes myself and decided to retrain him as a Central Midfielder. Turned into a very good DLP.

Infact, here he is after the end of season four, (he arrived in December of the first season);

So yeah, you don't just have to stick to what the coaches/game recommed.

[Seba Gibbon]

Yeah at the minute I'm trying to mould Nick Powell into a deep lying forward to replace Rooney long term, shouldn't be too tricky as he's already a competent Striker and has the stats and ppms for the role now via tutoring. Thought about training Maupay for the role but he's a better poacher.

[scott MUFC]

yea but those will mould the already higher stats, and it does actually change and Welbeck doesn't have much to change anyway

finally someone getting on the end of crosses

[tomtuck01]

yea but those will mould the already higher stats, and it does actually change and Welbeck doesn't have much to change anyway

Literally, what are you talking about? What already higher stats? For the role it is suggested he is best in? Seems like a waste of time when you can train specific areas and mould him into a much better all round player.

I'll safely predict that Welbeck is much better developed in my save and just as good a job.

[RTHerringbone]

In my opinion, you should only ever use the suggested best roles as an indication of where a player is best.

I think in terms of where do I want a player to play: defence, midfield or attack? Then I'll think how their attributes initially best fit into the system I want to use.

Players have to change to fit my system, not the other way around - it's why I so ruthlessly disposed of Valencia, Young and Nani straight away.

When I know that I want somebody to play in my Attacking Midfielder Attack slot, as an example, I'll focus on the key attributes for that role, but will also look to improve my general preferred attributes like composure, technique, agility etc. If I had the choice of a player with 20 for all attributes in the key areas for his role but 10's elsewhere, I'd rather have a player with all 15's for the key attributes if he had 15's for my preferred attributes too.

[scott MUFC]

Welbecks main stats are finishing and pace, his composure will go up training any striker position, but his prefered role boosts his dribbling slightly, which helps him better in a lone role;)

trust me give him the game time as well as training, i have left him upfront alone when I have had a red card he takes players on as well as finished stuff.

and Welbeck doesnt have much left to play with in terms of improvment.

i find that if a player will develop in that role, he will develop, in all aspects of it to a great level, it is rare i feel i need to intervene in development of players to boost something manually.

[RTHerringbone]

i find that if a player will develop in that role, he will develop, in all aspects of it to a great level, it is rare i feel i need to intervene in development of players to boost something manually.

Training roles does work and is a good option for older players on or near their PA ceiling.

Welbeck is young enough to be afforded some specific training as he can develop into a better player than just being left on role training.

As a rule of thumb, I don't train anyone less than about 23 on roles unless they are pretty much fully developed. A player with rounded attributes is better than one with a few spikes.

[tomtuck01]

Welbecks main stats are finishing and pace, his composure will go up training any striker position, but his prefered role boosts his dribbling slightly, which helps him better in a lone role

trust me give him the game time as well as training, i have left him upfront alone when I have had a red card he takes players on as well as finished stuff.

and Welbeck doesnt have much left to play with in terms of improvment.

i find that if a player will develop in that role, he will develop, in all aspects of it to a great level, it is rare i feel i need to intervene in development of players to boost something manually.

There is much more to him than just Finishing and Pace.

His First Touch and Dribbling are both at a very good point, (the same number (14) as finishing actually), and his Heading (13), is also at a very good starting point. Composure will go up of course with any Striker Role training, but it will go up more by concerntrating specifically on it.

One thing that you won't be able to increase much by training a Striker Roles is his passing. I'll hazard a guess that Welbeck's passing on your save is at most 12? Now you might be happy at that, but for a top club I personally wouldn't like such a crucial stat, (for how I play), that low.

I'm not saying that just training a role doesn't work, merely that to make a player suited to how you want to play it's easier to mould them by focusing on specific areas.

[danm2501]

Welbeck's a beast. Took over as England manager on my United save, playing him up top with Rooney, Rooney as a DLF and Welbeck as a poacher, and Welbeck's been on fire. 31 goals in 40 England games, the guy's immense. Just need to find space for him in my United first XI. Gonna be difficult now I only use 1 striker, with Gotze as AMC though.

[Seba Gibbon]

How has everyone done with the prospects you start with ? I've been very lucky that Powell, Henriquez, Januzaj, Pereira, Iannou and James Wilson have all been or are currently described as 'wonderkids'. All are part of my squad in the 4th season with Powell and Henriquez being well on the way to being world class.

Iannou I'm trying to develop in to a Ball Playing CB, had him tutored by Vidic & Rio. Been very solid for me.

Januzaj I'm using more as a winger than a central player. He's good cutting in from the right, had him tutored by Giggs, Cleverley & Wilshere and he's picked up some great PPMs for cutting in and creating such as tries killer balls, curls ball, gets forward and plays his way out of trouble.

Pereira will be a good advanced playmaker, just working on raising his composure at the moment as it's only 7.

Wilson is a pure poacher, good stats for the role but not a good all round player.

Henriquez is a superb poacher, had him tutored by Hernandez and Rooney. I sold Hernandez to get him more playing time and haven't missed him.

Johnstone as I've mentioned before is a solid back up, Daehli is out on loan but isn't going to get in ahead of the others I've mentioned. Could be a decent squad player if I needed but I have a big squad.

Also who has surprised you from the original squad ? For me it was Buttner who was good cover for Evra, then I sold him when Fabio returned and Fabio is a fantastic squad player. Very versatile and scores a few goals cutting in from left back. The other is Scott Wooton who I've had out on loan every season and now he looks like a solid CB. He's doing great for West Brom on loan.

[scott MUFC]

Welbeck is being trained as an Advanced forward, the key role i use when i go down to 10 men.

it is more look with the top prospects as to how much PA they have. Januzaj and Daehl got the best on mine, and are developing alright, star ratings are fluctuating, had them both on loan last season.

[tomtuck01]

Also who has surprised you from the original squad ?

Tyler Blackett, but then you already know about that.

[scott MUFC]

Valencia... he isn't rubbish like the real one

and shaw is turning into a monster, currently learning the get forward whenever possible PPM. with that crossing, hope he learns it because Llorente will have a field day feeding off his crosses.

[fmFutbolManager]

I need a good, cheap understudy to Rafael. I only have him in the FB attack role. Jones and Smalling can cover, but they're hardly full backs. Anyone have a good, cheap recommendation? Also, I seem to have lost the option to ask my assistant manager to compile a list of players available for loan so I can get in some over. Where has this moved to?

[tomtuck01]

I need a good, cheap understudy to Rafael. I only have him in the FB attack role. Jones and Smalling can cover, but they're hardly full backs. Anyone have a good, cheap recommendation? Also, I seem to have lost the option to ask my assistant manager to compile a list of players available for loan so I can get in some over. Where has this moved to?

What season are you in?

[Cleon]

I need a good, cheap understudy to Rafael. I only have him in the FB attack role. Jones and Smalling can cover, but they're hardly full backs. Anyone have a good, cheap recommendation? Also, I seem to have lost the option to ask my assistant manager to compile a list of players available for loan so I can get in some over. Where has this moved to?

Tete from Ajax

[RTHerringbone]

I need a good, cheap understudy to Rafael. I only have him in the FB attack role. Jones and Smalling can cover, but they're hardly full backs. Anyone have a good, cheap recommendation? Also, I seem to have lost the option to ask my assistant manager to compile a list of players available for loan so I can get in some over. Where has this moved to?

If you're in season two, Fabio can do a job on the right (when he isn't injured) - but that assumes that you don't use him as an understudy for Evra on the left....

On another note, I've signed Lewandowski on a free! Coming in the summer window at the end of 13/14 season. Having flogged Rooney and RVP to boost the coffers, I needed a developed player who can perform as a DLF on Support, only £60k per week too.

[tomtuck01]

Tete from Ajax

Pah, I was going to say that once he'd said his season!

As you know Cle, I bought him as soon as I started my save.

[Cleon]

Pah, I was going to say that once he'd said his season!

As you know Cle, I bought him as soon as I started my save.

How is he developing for you at Utd Tom?

[tomtuck01]

How is he developing for you at Utd Tom?

Very nicely;

Thinking of letting Rafael go at the end of this campaign because of him in all honesty. Also he, (Rafael), wants a decent wage rise from his already good £65,000 p/w to stay, but there's not point when I already have Tete who is ready to play week-in, week-out.

[Cleon]

He's come on loads in the time you've had him. Who needs Rafael when you have him

[RTHerringbone]

That is very, very nice pass completion for a full back. Good performances all round by the look of it.

What games are you playing him in? 10 League games in Feb suggests he's getting a run out in your "easier" games.

[tomtuck01]

He's come on loads in the time you've had him. Who needs Rafael when you have him

Exactly what I'm coming round to thinking.

That is very, very nice pass completion for a full back. Good performances all round by the look of it.

What games are you playing him in? 10 League games in Feb suggests he's getting a run out in your "easier" games.

Yes mostly "easier" games if you will. Though he has made the odd appearances in "bigger" games recently, including two games in three days against City (H) and Arsenal (A) in the league. Still revert to type, (Rafael), mostly though in those "bigger" games.

Having said all that, he did make 21starts last season, 17 of which were in the league.

[fmFutbolManager]

What season are you in?

December, season 1

[fmFutbolManager]

Tete from Ajax

He's too young to be understudy.

If you're in season two, Fabio can do a job on the right (when he isn't injured) - but that assumes that you don't use him as an understudy for Evra on the left....

On another note, I've signed Lewandowski on a free! Coming in the summer window at the end of 13/14 season. Having flogged Rooney and RVP to boost the coffers, I needed a developed player who can perform as a DLF on Support, only £60k per week too.

I have Contento from Bayern as Evra's understudy.

[RTHerringbone]

He's too young to be understudy.

I have Contento from Bayern as Evra's understudy.

You can't be too young to be an understudy! The sooner you play, the faster you develop (as long as your performances are up to scratch).

I'm using a 15 year old newgen keeper in "easier" league and cup games at OT.

If you have cover at left back, Fabio is a ready made solution for right back. He isn't as good there as he is on the left, but can do a job on the occasions you need to use him.

[fmFutbolManager]

You can't be too young to be an understudy! The sooner you play, the faster you develop (as long as your performances are up to scratch).

I'm using a 15 year old newgen keeper in "easier" league and cup games at OT.

If you have cover at left back, Fabio is a ready made solution for right back. He isn't as good there as he is on the left, but can do a job on the occasions you need to use him.

I guess we have different expectations of an understudy. I rotate my squad quite a bit to avoid injury and keep the players fresh so he'd be expected to play a lot of games when Rafael needs a or a week off. I wouldn't want to play a 17 year old. I'd rather a better developed player, personally.

I'm scouting him as one for the future, though. The reserves and under 18s are not highly thought of by my new scouts, I only have a couple of players with 4+ potential ability. I'll be looking to boost this when the next batch of newgens are populated.

[RTHerringbone]

I guess we have different expectations of an understudy. I rotate my squad quite a bit to avoid injury and keep the players fresh so he'd be expected to play a lot of games when Rafael needs a or a week off. I wouldn't want to play a 17 year old. I'd rather a better developed player, personally.

My goalkeeper example is an exceptional one. Whilst I rotate the entire XI from game to game, I generally use De Gea in goal.

However, now that newgens are appearing, I will start to heavily focus on developing them. Subs 2, 3, 4 and 5 will be newgens afforded game time irrespective of their ages. I have no qualms whatsoever about bringing a 15 year old with one star CA off the bench in any game, as long as his PA is 4 stars plus. The key to player development for me along with training is game time, as long as the performances of the team and the individual are high.

I picked up two 16 years old Spanish newgens last night and there is no question that they will be world class so they are already on my bench, days after arriving at the club.

[fmFutbolManager]

Ah okay that's clearer. I do the same. I will always have players on the bench for development purposes, but I need someone I can rely on to regularly play when I need them to without a worry their stats wont be a weakness for the game.

EDIT: I really don't get some of the match reports on here. "In-form Wigan suffered a surprise defeat against Manchester United on a cold and stormy evening at Old Trafford."

I'm second in the league (first season, December), Wigan are 10th... Was it really a surprise...

[roo-naldo]

Understudy for Rafael? Gino Peruzzi.

And if you're good enough, age isn't relevant. Like RTHerringbone said, I always tend to have younger players on the bench apart from against the bigger teams. And against so-called weaker teams, especially at home, they might even get a few starts.

[Jupmachine]

I'm 10 games into my 3rd season with United and its all starting to fall apart.

After walking the league and winning the FA cup in my first 2 seasons, this one has started terribly. We currently sit 10th with 1 win, 6 draws and 3 defeats.

My tactics have evolved nicely over 2 years and we still get all the posession and shots we used to get, except I haven't had one CCC all season and the most shots we've had that have actually hit the target is 3 in one game, normally its none or 1. My defence has decided that they wont bother marking anyone and my keeper always drops the ball at the feet of the attacker.

I've decided to be harsh with them for the next few games and speak to each under performing player individually after each game where they get a bad rating in the hope of inspiring a comeback.

[RTHerringbone]

I'm 10 games into my 3rd season with United and its all starting to fall apart.

After walking the league and winning the FA cup in my first 2 seasons, this one has started terribly. We currently sit 10th with 1 win, 6 draws and 3 defeats.

Something must have materially changed as form shouldn't capitulate like that.

1. Are you playing the same as during your second season? If so, what is your tactical set up?

2. Any major player changes?

3. What was your tactical familiarity like at the start of the season?

4. Were your early fixtures harder than previous seasons?

5. Are teams playing more cautiously against you in view of your performances over the past two seasons?

[Cleon]

He's too young to be understudy.

I have Contento from Bayern as Evra's understudy.

An understudy is someone who is under developed and needs guidance in football terms and gets the odd game here and there. So I guess what you actually want is a rotation player as you need them to be developed already?

He won the Champions League with me first season and played in the final

Sooner you play him the better he'll develop and be your right back for the next 15 years.

This is him from my save;

[tomtuck01]

I have seen all that before.

[fmFutbolManager]

Why did this happen?

Carrick missed the slide tackle, Naismith passes to Jelavic

Both Vidic and Ferdinand fancy a piece of the action, so head in for a bit of tag-team.

Meanwhile in Calamityville, Naismith continues his run into the empty space

After Ferdinand and Vidic stop their little dance, they decide to try catch Neismith...

Oh, a goal. Fantastic.

[Cleon]

Why did this happen?

Carrick missed the slide tackle, Naismith passes to Jelavic

Both Vidic and Ferdinand fancy a piece of the action, so head in for a bit of tag-team.

Meanwhile in Calamityville, Naismith continues his run into the empty space

After Ferdinand and Vidic stop their little dance, they decide to try catch Neismith...

Oh, a goal. Fantastic.

Both CD's have the same role and duty?

[tomtuck01]

Both CD's have the same role and duty?

I was just going to say they made a bad decision between them. i.e. they didn't communicate. It happens, move on.

[fmFutbolManager]

Both CD's have the same role and duty?

CD defend and LD defend.

[Cleon]

CD defend and LD defend.

It's what happens when you don't have adequate cover from midfield and the oppositions striker comes deep for the ball. It drags your DC's out of shape and depending on the marking system you use, neither of them know which player should be marking him because he is occupying space bang in front of them both.

[RTHerringbone]

It is definitely an "it just happens moment" but an annoying one at that.

I try to mitigate this sort of stuff to a degree by having a CD Stopper and a BPD Defend, not only to counter this sort of stuff, but also to help cover the fact that I have no DM role in my latest tactic.

In your case with my set up, Ferdinand theoretically would have hung back a bit whilst Vidic closed down Jelavic.

[Chris21]

I always like to have a centre back set to 'cover' More likely to drop off and stop things like that.

[Cleon]

I always like to have a centre back set to 'cover' More likely to drop off and stop things like that.

Indeed, giving players different options should reduce the chances of the above happening by a lot.

[fmFutbolManager]

Would a limited defender be better as the cover? I typically play with Vidic/Smalling as limited and Ferdinand/Jones and central.

[fmFutbolManager]

I always like to have a centre back set to 'cover' More likely to drop off and stop things like that.

Assuming you have the other set to stopper then? As the central defender on defend 'will stay in line with his defensive partner and look to break up attacks, marking opposing forwards and prevent the ball from getting into the box'.

[danm2501]

I have started using a cover and a stopper recently, seems to be working very well!

[fmFutbolManager]

This game is so bloody frustrating at times. City lose, I have a chance to go top of the league against bottom of the league Villa, but they beat me for the second time this season 2-1 with just 2 shots compared to my 22. We're just so inconsistent this season. City draw, we draw. City lose, we lose. I've not managed to string any decent results together, and have had disappointing results where we've failed to win against Villa twice, QPR and Norwich.

I could throw my computer out the window sometimes....