Drake44444 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 The game is pretty much the exact same as previous versions except much easier in ways that it did not used to be. Tactics don't need to be changed and don't matter so much, teamtalks seem simple, money just pours in, players never want out, club reputation and value grows easily... The thing is, Fulham should not have loads of money. Won the league year 3, have tons of money, new stadium on the way. Like unlimited money at Fulham, it just does not make any sense. The reason I brought it up here is that this is different than previous versions. Considering I have flown through this game, even making a lot of mistakes, and everything works out so well does not make sense. I was playing FM11 right up to I bought this game and the game was significantly more realistic in terms of many things. I checked team value and mine was 250 million with 200 debt during year 3, and Man U was just a little over 300 million. That means by midway through the 3rd year, I had more elite talent than Man U + my team somehow had almost as much value? I was super rich and now am the top 10 richest in the world at Fulham! I didn't buy this game to play with a League 2 team. I did to play with a few teams and make them into Champions League contenders. It just should not happen overnight like this. Interestingly I won the Premier League but got spanked out of Champions League first round knockout by Benfica. They scored 3 goals on me away, making 3 long shots. Almost like Champions League was programed to be harder while I would just waltz into Liverpool and Manchester City and win 2-0. Only team I could not beat was Man U who after they brought in Bielsa, played exact same formation as mine and they subsequently killed me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake44444 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Another thing is a play the game for the tactical aspect, and finding players for roles and adjusting tactics to suit the players. I play to try new ideas I see when watching football on tv and in person. I don't want to play with no intelligence lower level players. If I can just plug and play any player/any formation on a decent team then that aspect is lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
upthetoon Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Secondly, every player I sell is almost on a 48 month payment plan. Sold David Stockdale to West Brom for 1 million, David Murphy for 1 million.... spread over 48 months. 48 months is like the way of doing business in this version of FM. Even Sevilla, AC Milan are spreading things out over 48 months. You do know that EVERY club does business that way in real life. There is no such thing as upfront payment which is extremely rare. And the only Premier League club to openly declare they prefer paying upfront is Mike Ashley's Newcastle. Which is why some french clubs prefer dealing with Newcastle as they make their payment upfront. So, in that aspect it is very realistic. In actual fact, in real life they have tonnes of clause on top of the monthly installments. You just thank that SI did not follow real life in that area totally as it will make your head spin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake44444 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 You do know that EVERY club does business that way in real life. There is no such thing as upfront payment which is extremely rare. And the only Premier League club to openly declare they prefer paying upfront is Mike Ashley's Newcastle. Which is why some french clubs prefer dealing with Newcastle as they make their payment upfront.So, in that aspect it is very realistic. In actual fact, in real life they have tonnes of clause on top of the monthly installments. You just thank that SI did not follow real life in that area totally as it will make your head spin. I see.... good points. I was countering the point where someone said it was cheating to do the same 48 month payment. If you sell players over 48 month income, you need to buy with the same because the income is coming in at a rate of 48 months and going out at a rate of 48 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Sunday Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Drake - if you have a club worth 250M but the debt is 200M then the value of the club is only 50M. What you are seeing by your 'riches' is just a cashflow peak early in the game. You've said earlier you use the 48 month exploit. To make the game challenging try doing it all without building up a debt. Just because you've been allowed to spend that transfer budget doesn't mean you should or that it'll be ok. Because football chairman are a bit crap at maths, they don't seem to give you what will be ok financially, but give you 'gamble' money to try and make the big time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake44444 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Drake - if you have a club worth 250M but the debt is 200M then the value of the club is only 50M. What you are seeing by your 'riches' is just a cashflow peak early in the game. You've said earlier you use the 48 month exploit. To make the game challenging try doing it all without building up a debt. Just because you've been allowed to spend that transfer budget doesn't mean you should or that it'll be ok. Because football chairman are a bit crap at maths, they don't seem to give you what will be ok financially, but give you 'gamble' money to try and make the big time. That isn't true in my opinion. Man United have 300 million in debt. Fulham start out with 200 million debt when the game begins as an ownership loan from before I took over the club. Many owners finance the team with debt. Abrahomivich's investments in Chelsea were actual interest free loans he may never recall (but can). The 250M with 200 debt means 450M without the debt. Value goes up as debt goes down every year. I pay 2 million a month in debt payments after the stadium just got approved. Every month when I make a payment the debt goes down. With Champions League 25 million, TV rights, placement finishes, and match revenue I break even in yearly spending even with the 2 million debt payments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Sunday Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Drake - "Every month when I make a payment the debt goes down." But that doesn't mean the asset increases. Asset and debt are to completely seperate entities. A clubs value is the balance sheet items, the assets the club owns. Be they infrastructure or players. The debt is what it cost to purchase those assets. Turnover - Expenditure = Profit [And profit can be re-invested on assets without incuring debt] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
upthetoon Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I see.... good points. I was countering the point where someone said it was cheating to do the same 48 month payment. If you sell players over 48 month income, you need to buy with the same because the income is coming in at a rate of 48 months and going out at a rate of 48 months. Yes and how you play around with it uses your financial management skills. You have plenty of money from TV etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake44444 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Drake - "Every month when I make a payment the debt goes down." But that doesn't mean the asset increases. Asset and debt are to completely seperate entities. A clubs value is the balance sheet items, the assets the club owns. Be they infrastructure or players. The debt is what it cost to purchase those assets.Turnover - Expenditure = Profit [And profit can be re-invested on assets without incuring debt] So for estimated value lets say it says 270M and debt 200M (from new stadium + loans taken out before I took over), then isn't the estimated value of the club right to go up when the debt goes down? Buying an asset with less debt has to be more valuable than buying it with more debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake44444 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Yes and how you play around with it uses your financial management skills. You have plenty of money from TV etc. So basically overspending is a tainted way of winning i see. I have not been around the forums in 2 years, and just started this recently, never much thought about it. I'll start not doing it, but still signing Hamsik and Tevez before having won anything is not realistic for reputation reasons. A cool thing about this version is to start at a lower club I can just pick a new country and league and move over, without starting a new game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Sunday Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 No beacuse the value of the assets you've purchased can change up or down. I can buy a player for 50k and make him worth 100M (for examples sake). Or I can buy a flop for loads of money (say 10M) and his contract isn't worth the paper it's written on. In both cases the debt or money used to purchase those items would be either 50k or £10m and the asset would be reassed at a higher or lower value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Sunday Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Just out of interest would anybody be interested if I wrote an article on Finance and FM (as I see it)? I've never actually seen one on these forums before By trade I'm a Financial Anaylst with a public sector body and understand the basics of profit and loss accounts etc. So might be able to give at least some insight. Let me know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KronikAlkoholik Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I meant Gylfi Sigurdsson, which was why I said Sigurdsson instead of Sigthórsson Narrow 4-3-3s are known to exploit a flaw in the ME, yours especially because you have two very creative players either side of a quick goalscorer. The central striker gets far too many scoring chances. At least he didn't say Sigurroson (Son of the band perhaps) like that other guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake44444 Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Just out of interest would anybody be interested if I wrote an article on Finance and FM (as I see it)? I've never actually seen one on these forums before By trade I'm a Financial Anaylst with a public sector body and understand the basics of profit and loss accounts etc. So might be able to give at least some insight. Let me know. Yaeh that would be awesome, go for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govnar1 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Just out of interest would anybody be interested if I wrote an article on Finance and FM (as I see it)? I've never actually seen one on these forums before By trade I'm a Financial Anaylst with a public sector body and understand the basics of profit and loss accounts etc. So might be able to give at least some insight. Let me know. do it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake44444 Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm trying some lower league challenges for another angle at the game, this will keep some rules in place and I can't just play my football and win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Sunday Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Good for you Drake. I'm sure you'll have fun that way as it will feel more like you've earn't your victories. I will write an article on FM and Finance when I get some spare time next week. Got a job application to fill in first! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
denzil.smith Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 it really is too easy getting to be more like fifa manager every time are they trying to attract u'10s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Just out of interest would anybody be interested if I wrote an article on Finance and FM (as I see it)? I've never actually seen one on these forums before By trade I'm a Financial Anaylst with a public sector body and understand the basics of profit and loss accounts etc. So might be able to give at least some insight. Let me know. I started a thread about the continued use of leveraged buyouts in FM which resulted in 0 comment, hopefully you could encourage a more vibrant debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FestyF Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Just came here to say that I finished 5th with Swansea in my first f***** season with default 4-4-2 and no transfers apart from free ones. I've never ever been so disappointed with my success before. I guess it's time to quit FM 12 and move on to something else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galo Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 More importantly...how did you go through 3 years in just a few days??? How many games per season do you actually play? Anybody who goes through seasons that fast is playing this game in an arcade, FIFA style and totally defeating the point of FM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Just came here to say that I finished 5th with Swansea in my first f***** season with default 4-4-2 and no transfers apart from free ones. I've never ever been so disappointed with my success before. I guess it's time to quit FM 12 and move on to something else. SI answered that FM12 won't be addressed at all and neither FM13 will have anything different in term of ME core engine difficulty settings. They have made a choice and they won't come back. I feel the needing to state that FM wants to hit the handheld and smartphone market, that's the reason it is this year so easy, despite they say the ME is the same. We are all suffering from mass hallucination therefore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 tbh.. in 3 years.. anything can change... look at everton or newcastle... they went from stuggling teams to top 10 contenders in a matter of a few years.. 3 years and still not won the league isnt that impressive with fulham.. neither is winning a few cups or getting into europe... in fact.. the real fulham got into europe and are more than capable of winning some cups... nevertheless the point of the thread still stands true... im just coming to the end of my first season with blackburn rovers... im 3rd just behind the two manchester clubs... :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FestyF Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 nevertheless the point of the thread still stands true... im just coming to the end of my first season with blackburn rovers... im 3rd just behind the two manchester clubs... :/ 3rd with Blackburn Rovers in the first season? You must be proud of your 'managerial ability' then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSH Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I'm always feeling a little sad for the people who say "hey, don't exploit this transfer system, don't exploit this AI flaw, don't exploit the team talks, don't exploit the inability of AI to close the centre of its defense" etc... Really people, If I have NOT to play half the game in order to enjoy it there's clearly something wrong with it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 3rd with Blackburn Rovers in the first season? You must be proud of your 'managerial ability' then? actually i am... i think my tactics have been sound and ive got the team playing exactly how i want them too.. but it still feels like its come too easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stf1979 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I quit playing the game until they fix this.. Feels like "press the continue button to win" No challenge no fun! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 If you open a poll about this subject it will be closed within minutes. That's how the demo rule works guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firehammer Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 If you open a poll about this subject it will be closed within minutes.That's how the demo rule works guys. There is just a pool referred to this issue: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/283877-FM2012-difficulty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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