*OFFICIAL* Football Manager 2012 Feedback and Discussion Thread

[Exius]

There are a lot of improvements in fm 2012. I like new interface, new teamtalk system. New scout reports, team reports and team comparison are awesome. The only thing I can't understand - why SI decided to remove from fixtures screen quantity of days left to next match. I see no reason to do this and a lot of people dislike this "improvement", so I hope SI will correct it in next patches.

What I found embarrassing is that there are no positive changes in ME comparing with 11.3. There are a lot of problems in current version of ME:

1. A very old bug. When the ball goes out of play, a player goes to collect it and sometimes it takes more than a minute. Is it so difficult to make several balls for a match or make boys throwing the ball to players like IRL? This is the most stupid bug in FM.
   
2. Player chases the ball but slows down several meters before it and the opposition player reaches it first. One more stupid bug. I see no reason in it. It happens not very often, but it is very annoying. I thought it may be a time wasting, but it happens even when I set time wasting to "rarely".
   
3. Poor finishing. Even the most gifted strikers waste a lot of one-on-one opportunities too often.
   
4. Poor defending AI. It looks like defenders just don't want to tackle. They can run next to opposition player to their penalty area and only there they start tackling. IRL defenders tackle more often and mark their opposition more tightly.
   
5. Poor attacking AI. On the other hand attackers AI is also very poor. Very often they just give the ball to opposition players even without trying dribbling. And sadly I see no difference between Messi or some second-league attacker - both of them give possession away too easy.
   
6. Headers are too strong. IRL it is very difficult to make a pass with a head longer than 20-30 metres, but in FM very often players make passes half pitch long with their heads. It's pity that this bug was in every version of FM. Guys from SI, are you going to do something with this?
   
7. In addition to previous issue: The ball bounces off the players like they are made from wood. It's pretty common in FM: sometimes even worldclass players can't handle the ball and it bounces off them too far like off the wall. I can't remember it happening as often IRL.
   
8. Passing to the left flank. This problem was in FM 2011. It seems that team passing tends to the left flank no matter what team and individual instructions you set.
   
9. Defenders and GK clear the ball under minimal pressure. Even if the opposition players are too far and no matter how many of them there are, defenders and keeper tend to clear the ball kicking it to the stands or crossing somewhere to opposition keeper. And no matter are they world-class players or some amateurs.
   
10. Free kicks from own half or the pitch. No matter what set-piece and individual instructions I set, almost every time I have free kick in my half of the pitch, my defender or goalkeeper kicks it to the opposition penalty area even if there are no my players thus giving possession away. It's very annoying when it happens late in the match when I am leading and trying just keep the ball. May be this is a bug, because even with ultra-defensive mentality and without any players forward defenders nevertheless kick the ball forward instead of passing it to a teammate.
    
11. Substitutes come on the pitch before the substituted player comes off. It happens quite often and of course it is prohibited IRL. Substitutes must come to the pitch only near central line of the field but in FM they sometimes enter the game just from the bench.
    
12. Players chase the ball even if it goes out for a throw-in or a corner from opposition player. Often player touches the ball and it goes out from him, thus he concedes a throw-in. Come on guys, even in PES and FIFA this year AI understands that sometimes there is no reason to chase the ball in such cases.
    
13. The referee ends the game even if one team attacks. IRL when time runs out but one of the teams attacks and the ball is near opposition penalty area the referee often allows the team to end their attack. In FM he always blow his whistle and ends the game.
    

And one more problem in FM 2012 are injuries. Maybe their amount is realistic, but their nature is not. IRL most of the injuries are minor injuries, treatment takes few days, maybe a week. But in FM there are too many major injuries and they occur too often. The most ridiculous is that the player picks up a knock but continues to play and after the match it sometimes appears that he is injured for 3-5 weeks. Needless to say that IRL most of the injuries are caused by very rough fouls and players are booked or even suspended for them. In FM very often the referee even sees no faul but the injury is very serious. It happens IRL but far more rarely comparing to FM.

I hope, that there will be a major patch coming soon fixing some of these problems. I play FM since 2005 but it starts disappointing me due to its lack of progress in ME and tactics creator and I will think twice before buying FM next year. Hope that I am not the only disappointed with progress of the game and that guys from SI read this thread sometimes.

[Gusano]

I agree that the match engine needs to serious changes.

[TSH]

Exius, your post is like reading a post about the ME from last year.

I agree and have experienced most of what you say. Some of the problems have been present for years, so it's pretty clear that SI can't fix them unless they change the ME.

What really irritates me though and I find completely unprofessional on their part is that they just won'd admit it! This is happening for marketing reasons, obviously, but it wouldn't hurt to admit to a few things at least so many people in here would stop feeling like idiots.

Also, SI, your patch strategy was great the last couple of years. Many people waited for at least 2 patches (I waited for 3) to play or buy the game. We knew that we had to wait.

Why can't you please tell us now what your intentions are? Will you be releasing a patch to improve, for example, the ME? Or we should just accept the state the game is in and play (or some of us wait for the next year? FM11 is a fine alternative).

Just an indication would be nice.

[Exius]

Exius, your post is like reading a post about the ME from last year.

I'm pretty much sure there are no changes in ME comparing with last year at all.

Some of the problems have been present for years, so it's pretty clear that SI can't fix them unless they change the ME.

Or they don't want to fix them. Or maybe they think it's not important and ME is already perfect. I'd like to hear an answer from anyone from SI.

Remember what happened to FIFA. PC version was a mess over several years. But after EA realized they lost a lot of customers, they started really improving their game. May be if SI lost some of their customers it would positively affect game developing.

[Macshimmy]

Regarding injuries,

It does feel as though the modelling is a little crude.

The game seems determined to get to the "correct" injury percentages asap,

and thus the first few games of the season are lethal, often with 3 or four serious injuries

in one game, and maybe 2 more in training.

On the basis of this observation, I have taken to playing my worst players in the first few games

in the hopes that they stop a bullet, and sending my stars on holiday for the first couple of weeks.

I am reminded of the start of the season in FML, when savvy managers would only sign in after

the first few league games had been played, and the broken legs doled out.

Discuss

[xx11]

Or they don't want to fix them. Or maybe they think it's not important and ME is already perfect. I'd like to hear an answer from anyone from SI.

They have stated more then once that they are working on a new ME for the game, BUT they dont know if it will be ready for next year etc. Infact they got no idea when they have it ready to be part of a future release. Unfortunately it seems all focus is on that and not improving the current anymore (maybe they cant ? )

[Exius]

They have stated more then once that they are working on a new ME for the game, BUT they dont know if it will be ready for next year etc. Infact they got no idea when they have it ready to be part of a future release. Unfortunately it seems all focus is on that and not improving the current anymore (maybe they cant ? )

A new ME would be wonderful but I can't find any official statement about its development.

[Hairy Coo]

Paul C mentioned working on a new ME in the last couple of weeks

[Exius]

But did he mean really a completely new ME or just improving current version? Who knows... It seems there are some bugs in current ME that can't be fixed. A lot of them concern ball and player physics. I'd like to see more physical challenges between players, more collisions. And it looks like current ME can't handle with some tactical instructions, for example different formations when the team has the ball and when it defends. May be that's why it's not implemented yet. Anyway I'd like to see more flexibility in tactics creator, being able to tune every aspect of my team tactic.

[dogs]

my feedback is short i am a fan of the game and have bought probably every version annually going back to the old cm93 days. MY feedback for this release is that its pretty apparent that an unfinished game was released to the masses. Sega forcing the issues as targets and sales have to be made. I do realise that the back support is fantastic and the DEV team are constantly patching. We play a network game with 14 members and already the bugs spotted are starting to encroach on game play. The major one being when two human players play each other they sometimes can have different scores and see diff action on the pitch just plain sloppy. Other cosmetic bugs like the fa trophy and fa cup getting played at same time at same venue on same day. Not that happy about release and hope future patches make it the game its meant ti be

[Graham206]

There's always a temptation to point out flaws and take things which are good for granted, but over the last couple of days I've been really impressed by how well the use of tones has helped to create an impressively realistic simulation of long term player interactions.

Here's what happened: (apologies for a long post).

One of my key players, Rafael van der Vaart, got himself sent off in an important match, which we went on to lose.

I fined him following my normal practice. He objected, I told him he deserved it, get on with his job: an 'unhappy' icon appeared by his name. He wasn't happy with the way his manager spoke to him, I tried to sort this out, following mainly assertive paths. The conversation went very badly and he ended up demanding a transfer.

I said OK, listed him but didn't think any of the offers I got were good enough. He was unhappy again, demanding to know why I hadn't let him speak to AC Milan. I told him none of the offers matched his value. By this time his morale was abysmal. I found I could lift morale by a notch by encouraging individual team talks, so I did that, praised him whenever he performed well enough to merit it, and over time his morale rose. Eventually he was happy enough for me to risk talking things over, at one point this threatened to go badly wrong, but I was able to say, "I don't want to start all that again: can't we say we're both sorry and put it behind us?" And it worked and we're on good terms again.

Initially I was really frustrated at the possibility of losing a good player because he wouldn't accept a routine fine, but I was really pleased that it was possible, with effort, to solve the problem and bring him round. This seemed to work just as it was supposed to.

Now I just want the "promise of first team football" one working like that.

[Neilus]

Mostly impressed by the quality of content of the game, although it has been extremely and disappointingly buggy. This really ought to be addressed more thoroughly prior to the release of 2013. I mean, to be on the 4th patch release already speaks for itself, imo. Granted, lots of testing and feedback process need to be gone through, but this is the first time Ive been left distinctly underwhelmed by the performance of the programme, and I have a fair amount of patience.

In terms of gameplay itself, the training systems are far more engaged, which Im really enjoying. However, what I think would really push that aspect along would be more dynamic engagement with staff. A few 'for examples' to illustrate:

1. Ive lost count of the number of times Ive seen a Scout with really great stats for other coaching attributes (or vice vera and various other combinations), but his staff role is scouting only. I think an interaction point requesting the staff member to consider a new role because his skills are well suited would be beneficial.

2. Staff development. Even though on the editor there are figures for CA and PA for Staff, I dont often recall seeing a staff members stats significantly improve. Id love to be able to send one of my coaches on a UEFA coaching course, for example, to develop a particular coaching skill (and subsequently improve its training rating). Seems relevent to me, especially as manager IRL are barred from managing if they dont have certain qualification levels these days.

[jdrawmer]

In regards to training, I would like to see a slider bar to lower an individual's training workload - not for PPM or individual focus, but for the overall standard training. I'm sure this was availbable in FM11, but now that slider bar signifies how much work is done on PPM and individual focus?

When a player is unhappy with training workload, it means moving them or just making them suffer, and i'd end up with hundreds of schedules if i had to move them

[Lucentio]

My game won't update automatically? I have tried restarting steam and my computer and FM itself etc. I consider myself more than handy with a computer but I cannot get my head around steam. I just want to update my game to the latest version.

Can you help?