Too many amazing regens on 11.2 patch!?

[Maidel]

I'm sorry, which 'key' attributes were you looking at? Most of they key attributes for a striker are appalling on that player.

[sjholland87]

I have come across a 16 year old in my second season. Premiership quality to begin with and good potential

Click the links to see him (If I post the image, it makes the forum look untidy. If someone can play around with it then I would appreciate it):

Attributes

Coach Report

[Äktsjon Männ]

The problem with that Schwarz kid is not how good he is overall but rather the fact that he has 16 for quite a few attributes that a 14 year old shouldn't have, I think. He shouldn't be as accomplished at finishing at that age as some of the game's best strikers in their prime, for example.

It's hard to balance I think. Ideally you'd want regens to start at the same level of attributes as the real life youngsters but then it's more important how they turn out in the end. From what I've seen and heard in FM11 regens with mediocre/good/excellent potential seem fairly balanced, which at least is a step forward from FM10.

[Maidel]

He may have a high finishing attribute, but he has low composure and first touch, so he is not going to be anywhere near as lethal in front of goal as an older better player. We look at stats in isolation, but as in real life it's a whole host of things that effect how players perform.

For example this player is probably lethal on the training pitch, but under pressure his low composure will mean he will fluff a load of chances, also his first touch is awful so chances are he won't even get a chance to take the shot. It's not unrealistic at all, it's just how we look at it that is because in real life we font have stats.

[Äktsjon Männ]

He may have a high finishing attribute, but he has low composure and first touch, so he is not going to be anywhere near as lethal in front of goal as an older better player. We look at stats in isolation, but as in real life it's a whole host of things that effect how players perform.

For example this player is probably lethal on the training pitch, but under pressure his low composure will mean he will fluff a load of chances, also his first touch is awful so chances are he won't even get a chance to take the shot. It's not unrealistic at all, it's just how we look at it that is because in real life we font have stats.

A 14 year old shouldn't be that accomplished at any technical stat though. The fact that his other attributes are low only means that the game has failed to balance his ability out properly. How many real life 16 year olds in the starting db have that many attributes at 16 or similar? I don't think any do - which suggests that this is not a well balanced regen. Doesn't matter if he's able to consistently demonstrate his finishing ability in matches or not, it shouldn't be that high in the first place.

[Maidel]

Why not? Some 14 year olds dribble like pros (so does my 6 month old daughter...), they can't pass for toffee and their positioning skills are awful and they are weak like a little girl, but they can still be extremely good at one thing. Just look on u-tube , some young teenagers have ball control skills that surpass most professionals, but it's all they can do.

So this kid can kick a ball very well at the goal, he won't score very often at all because his other stats are so low.

[EnriqueZove]

For me, the Regen have been good all over the 2 season. If I am lacking a Striker backup in the Man Utd save there will be quality Regen striker in next season; same if next season I need Evra replacement. It generally are just 2 or 3 at most as per my attribute reading and coach report. Moreover a quality Regen only develops into a good player if i play him at least once in 3 week. else they rot and are sold

[lancer1]

I have come across a 16 year old in my second season. Premiership quality to begin with and good potential

Click the links to see him (If I post the image, it makes the forum look untidy. If someone can play around with it then I would appreciate it):

Attributes

Coach Report

Rooney?

Unless regens like that are appearing very frequently, that's not unrealistic

[Coentrao]

I've been having a hard time finding average regens tbh, maybe it's because i play with not many leagues loaded.

I can find easily the top world-class regens on France,Italy,Brazil,Argentina as you would expect but they are normally too expensive for the clubs that i play with, but it's really hard to find the average-good all-rounder regen that doesn't have any crucial flaw that will make him an horrible player.. i will find some but it takes a lot and lot of scouting.

What i like to do is to find that sort of player that is somewhat cheap(1 million or less) that will develop over time and sell them for a massive profit.

So most regens that i find are either world class or complete crap.

Oh and i haven't got any decent regen coming out of my ranks yet.. though that's just bad luck

[Äktsjon Männ]

Why not? Some 14 year olds dribble like pros (so does my 6 month old daughter...), they can't pass for toffee and their positioning skills are awful and they are weak like a little girl, but they can still be extremely good at one thing. Just look on u-tube , some young teenagers have ball control skills that surpass most professionals, but it's all they can do.

So this kid can kick a ball very well at the goal, he won't score very often at all because his other stats are so low.

Again, I'm pretty certain no (rated) real life youngsters have such unbalanced attributes at the start of the game. The game should aim to keep the player quality constant for any age group. It's not doing so in this case. Your youtube kids most certainly do not have skills that surpass most professionals, they may look impressive and stand out in their age group but I doubt you can show me a kid of that age doing anything with the ball that a professional attacking player with half decent technical ability couldn't, in similar conditions. There just aren't many youtube clips of professional players doing fancy tricks with the ball in someones backyard.

[Maidel]

Ok, I exaggerate slightly, but there is nothing, for me at least, that looks out of place for a young player having 1 very good stat. If he had 16 in finishing, composure, first touch, long shots, pace and dribbling, sure that would be ridiculous.

[Mojby]

reflection22 - some of the players do look good but they could be near their PA already. If it was me, I would use FMRTE just to take a look at their PA's just to satisfy my curiosity. It could be that they will not improve much at all, in which case then the level of quality regens may not be as good as you think.

[Mojby]

Again' date=' I'm pretty certain no (rated) real life youngsters have such unbalanced attributes at the start of the game. The game should aim to keep the player quality constant for any age group. It's not doing so in this case. Your youtube kids most certainly do not have skills that surpass most professionals, they may look impressive and stand out in their age group but I doubt you can show me a kid of that age doing anything with the ball that a professional attacking player with half decent technical ability couldn't, in similar conditions. There just aren't many youtube clips of professional players doing fancy tricks with the ball in someones backyard.[/quote']

For Sky viewers, on Soccer AM they have 'skill skools' (i think this is what it is called) which go to the pro clubs in England and some of the pro players do showcase their skills!

[sjholland87]

Rooney?

Unless regens like that are appearing very frequently, that's not unrealistic

Good point!!!

Just checked and the rest of them are average at best. Just waiting for some Spanish ones to crop up since I have the spanish leagues open. Then I can make a proper judge about crazy regens

[Bardzie]

i had a 15 y.o who bagged 13 goals(?) in his 1st season and at the age of 16 was challenging neymar for STC

now his 17 and his an indispensable member of the team

it happens

[Rich...]

Again' date=' I'm pretty certain no (rated) real life youngsters have such unbalanced attributes at the start of the game. The game should aim to keep the player quality constant for any age group. It's not doing so in this case. Your youtube kids most certainly do not have skills that surpass most professionals, they may look impressive and stand out in their age group but I doubt you can show me a kid of that age doing anything with the ball that a professional attacking player with half decent technical ability couldn't, in similar conditions. There just aren't many youtube clips of professional players doing fancy tricks with the ball in someones backyard.[/quote']

Yeah that's exactly my point, the normal real players get left behind as all the ridiculously rated newgens come through.

Here's another from the same save, Real Madrid are about to pay £4.8m for him. With him being Brazilian I dont know if he'll be able to move for 4 years (when he's 18) but his agent was touting him round regardless and Real took the bait. (edit: Barca have now bid for him too).

Just stupid.

[ArsenalFan7]

The players you are posting really aren't that good

And just because they excel at one attribute doesn't mean they're too good, everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, just because his finishing is as good as Messi doesn't make him amazing.

[sjholland87]

Strikers with low composure are not good at all. They may go on a good run in pre-season but will buckle when the big games come around. I wouldn't start them in league games that's for sure. Post the coaches report on them.

[arsenal fan 123]

To be honest i think there aren't that many good regens

Im in 2017 with arsenal and there's about 10 regens that would get into a top team or end up getting into a top team in a few years (Arsenal , Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man City, AC Milan and Genoa)

Not sure if im a bit early for looking for world class regens as there are real players in the game which are the best now, Wilshere, Pastore, Hazard, Aguero, Rafael and Pato

Will the world class regens come in about 8-10 years once the last of golden wonderkids of 2011 retire and get old?

[LARulz]

You always get great players. But stopping using a scout tool makes it less noticeable.

[Rich...]

He's 14, he's bound to have low composure.

The players you are posting really aren't that good

And just because they excel at one attribute doesn't mean they're too good, everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, just because his finishing is as good as Messi doesn't make him amazing.

Here's a scout report on the Brazilian one. My scout has 18 for JA and 20 for JP.

So at 14 he's already a good signing for most Serie B teams and will likely become a leading star in Serie A. He also says he thinks he'd be an important player for the first team if I signed him (I'm Inter). Sounds like he's pretty amazing to me.

Obviously neither of those two are as good as the top players, but they are both 14 years old, they're not going to be. However, the stats are totally scewed when compared to almost EVERY other young player in the game. I did a search filter from the Brazilian and the only players who can match at least 15 in heading, finishing, freekicks, determination and first touch are Drogba, Cristiano Ronaldo and Rivaldo. Take away heading or freekicks and still the only comparisons are about 10-15 of the best strikers in the game. By your logic there should be loads of players, some with great stats to go with these other outstanding ones and some with poor stats.

I just want a realistic game which plays as close to real life as possible, it is a sim afterall. Watching teams buy schoolboy regens for millions of pounds and sticking them in the first team whilst allowing their 'real' youngsters (who IRL are very promising) to leave for next to nothing or free is really annoying,

[ArsenalFan7]

Alright fair enough, he has a high PA and can become pretty good.

But seriously, he doesn't look anywhere near too good for someone of his age.

[Rich...]

Ok, how many 'real' players are there in the DB under the age of 16 who are of a similar ability? There's none being transferred to the big clubs in my game or being found by my scouts.

If you can find anyone can you put their names in spoilers as I hate knowing all the wonderkids too.

[ArsenalFan7]

I'm gonna be honest, I literally can't be asked to find players like him, plus there are no 14 year olds as it is, i'm not even sure if ther are 15 year olds.

But still would you not agree he isn't exactly magnificent for his age?

[lancer1]

14 year olds already that good is a little bizarre, but 16 year olds is not impossible. However, it should be exceptionally, rare, as in 1 every year or 2 (in the top leagues at least..) Rooney, Lukaku, Muniain, Bale, etc. all shone at the age of 16 or so

[Rich...]

Yeah I'd agree with that last post. The reason I said 16 is because like you say, there are no real 14 year olds in the game. 16 year old's should be a fair bit further on in their development anyway so the lack of examples proves the point further I guess.

To be honest with you ArsenalFan, I wouldn't agree that he's not magnificent for his age, he clearly is as there's hardly anyone even 2 years older than him who are as good and my scout thinks he can play for the Inter first team.

Just had a thought... maybe the 'real' youngsters are being underrated and the regens stats are right?

[Gecko]

Sometimes your scout with use just the amount of CA and PA they have to rate them, where as I then decide if they are actually good enough to play (ie key stats).

[uclazy31]

Esteban Gonzalez is a DC with 6 jumping and 6 strength. How on earth is he considered good? That guy represents most of my regens. He needs to be retrained to a different position to be worth anything. Most of those players have some serious flaws that make them worse than a standard db player later in the game. even your better regen DC has bad teamwork and work rate. The GK has bad pace and accel which means he wont be good at coming out for a ball. I would be interested to see if they develop into good players with well rounded stats. My bet is that they cant overcome the deficiencies they have in key stats.

[Latimerinho]

I'm seeing plenty of promising Brazilian regens between the age of 14-17 but playing in the Prem, you can't sign them until they turn 18. On one hand my future GK signing is constantly playing and I'm therefore quite happy about this but the other (14yo) isn't currently playing so he's not gaining experience nor being trained under my top coaches. It's such a fine line as to whether they benefit from it or not, but it keeps me playing the game because I'm so intrigued as to what effect it has (or not as the case may be). It's also nice to see that quite a lot of the youngsters are very determined which helps them achieve their PA.

In this year's game I'm also seeing the quality regens coming from the countries you'd expect to produce such talent, i.e. Brazil, Argentina, Spain. I've also noticed other countries tend to have a generation of good regens as opposed to every year, France, England and Germany are good examples of this. Very realistic to the present day

Overall, I personally cannot complain about the regens being produced. As legends disappear out of the game it's balanced with potential brilliance, if anything I'd rather there be a choice than hardly any at all.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Just had a thought... maybe the 'real' youngsters are being underrated and the regens stats are right?

This, though, is not a logic the game development could or should follow. SI have set up a massive researching network while making sure everyone has strict guidelines to follow to go along with their own good judgment when rating players of any age group. On the other hand they have one or two guys developing the regen system. Even if they sincerely do value the opinion of those couple guys more than their researchers they still have to be entirely certain that everyone is on the same page on this.

[Maidel]

This' date=' though, is not a logic the game development could or should follow. SI have set up a massive researching network while making sure everyone has strict guidelines to follow to go along with their own good judgment when rating players of any age group. On the other hand they have one or two guys developing the regen system. Even if they sincerely do value the opinion of those couple guys more than their researchers they still have to be entirely certain that everyone is on the same page on this.[/quote']

It is very difficult because it would be completely impossible to individually quaility check every single researchers work. Im sure they use a computer to ensure that no researcher places his (or her) players too far from the expected curve of attributes for the league in which they are in, but I susspect that researchers are more likely to assign middling values for 'unknown stats' than the computer is.

EG - for a defender who never takes penalties - researcher might put 6 or 7. Not because the player thinks that said defender has 3/10s the penalty taking ability than a player with 20, but because a human would not want to put a very low score to something that they do not have any information for. The computer will not do this at all and is happy to put 1 or 20 in any place on a regen.

[Äktsjon Männ]

EG - for a defender who never takes penalties - researcher might put 6 or 7. Not because the player thinks that said defender has 3/10s the penalty taking ability than a player with 20, but because a human would not want to put a very low score to something that they do not have any information for. The computer will not do this at all and is happy to put 1 or 20 in any place on a regen.

Which is why the developers have to look at the database and set a range. Whether or not they agree on it, but the quality has to remain constant for there to be balance in the first 10 game seasons or so.

[Maidel]

Which is why the developers have to look at the database and set a range. Whether or not they agree on it' date=' but the quality has to remain constant for there to be balance in the first 10 game seasons or so.[/quote']

Hasnt this always been the critisim of FMs regen system. Ever since they made them entirely new players, as apposed to re-generated older players the accusation is that they have never managed to produce players as good as they old players. People have complained for years that if you play long term games the big clubs are full of 35+ aged players because they are the reminants of the exisiting young players and their stats are still better than the new 'world class' players.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Hasnt this always been the critisim of FMs regen system. Ever since they made them entirely new players, as apposed to re-generated older players the accusation is that they have never managed to produce players as good as they old players. People have complained for years that if you play long term games the big clubs are full of 35+ aged players because they are the reminants of the exisiting young players and their stats are still better than the new 'world class' players.

Which is a result of the exact same problem. Whether the regens are too bad or too good, it's the same issue - lack of balance between real and generated youngsters. It is something that must be difficult to perfect though, I'm not denying that at all.

[Maidel]

I think the issue is that humans, as a rule, err on the side of caution and thus are more inclined to be generous with their assessments. Not to mention that the researchers are all fans of the club which they assess!

The computer is impartial and doesnt care and thus only works on what is programmed.

Thus, human researchers appear more likely to provide a player that looks like 5, 8, 16, 8, 10 etc

Whereas the computer is just as likey to produce 1, 1, 20, 1, 20

Which of those is the better player (rhetorical question!)

Well, surprisingly the stats of the first one add up to 47 and the second one to 43.. But to the human eye the second player has got 2 twenties in it and the first one is a bit meh.

So SI manage to produce a regen system that produces players with an equal number of 'points' as the human researchers, but they never seem to be equally rounded players. Or they are just dumb and produce defenders with finishing 20.

I am witholding judgement this year - I havent seen enough in game regens to make a valid decision yet.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I am witholding judgement this year - I havent seen enough in game regens to make a valid decision yet.

Nor have I, but from what I've seen so far there seems to be a fair bit of improvement overall, which is good to see.

[Mr T]

Well since I´m in 2020 in my current game I´ll show some of the regens in my first team. All of these were made during the 11.1.1 patch. I haven´t really looked much at the regens of other big teams in Europe but I quite like mine.

Made one big pic out of the players to reduce image spam, but it´s 3MB so might take a while to load.

The last guy is the only one from my own youth academy to make it in the first team. There are some who I suppose could´ve made or make backup but I usually end up letting those go so they can actually play.