The Brazil Thread

[MyNameIsJohn]

Bad news for ELano. Alves stays in then?

[Dutch Dave]

Brazil are clearly the favourites but don't underestimate us yet. There's no weak link in our squad. We are solid and very hard to beat or score against. We usually don't play the dominant passing game like we used to but we can still do it if needed. Also we have the pace up front (Robben or occasionally Elia and Afellay) to finish off counters. We got Sneijder and Van der Vaart whom both are brillant passers to sent them away. We have 'grit' with players like Van Bommel and De Jong.

People might be quick to underestimate us because we didn't 'shine' yet and haven't played our usual football. But to me that seems more like tactics than lacking quality. We are fine with the way we are playing now: sober and effective.

I'm not trying to make us bigger than we actually are, Brazil are still the favourites, but it would be wise to not underestimate us. I tend to think we are stronger than we have been for a long while. Brazil is warned.

[DJ]

Dutch Dave is right - because of the way Oranje played so far (just sufficient, nothing spectacular bar the way Robben casually comes on and pishes on defenses) no one writes about them or rates them. I don't think it's our tactics though - we've played exactly like we should and will not change them against Brasil. What we need is a bit more from some individual players. RvP and Sneijder will have to peak next game.

Fine with me. To be the anonymous underdog is the best way to be against this Brasil team that's heavily on fire, despite everything.

Fortunately Ramires misses next match because of two yellows. Brasils key man

Chances are 70-30 that Brasil will soundly beat the crap out of us, but who knows... if some of our players turn up at the right time, we may see a surprise. Although I'm not very hopeful, because Brasil will have all 50/50 challenges going with them and will get away with kicking our forwards into hospital before seeing yellows.

[PMLF]

Yes, obviously the match is not exactly won yet for Brazil and the Dutch are a better team than Chile, but Brazil should win. If not, then these players are chokers!

And no news yet on Brazil's line-up, but probably it will be similar to Brazil's formation vs Chile.

[Dutch Dave]

Yes, obviously the match is not exactly won yet for Brazil and the Dutch are a better team than Chile, but Brazil should win. If not, then these players are chokers!

Based on what excactly? Your history?

[PMLF]

No, history is important but Holland have a good football history too, it's because I think we have a better team overall than Holland, it's not that Holland is weak or anything though.

[Dutch Dave]

Better players overall, I agree. But I doubt you have the better team.

Truthfully, despite our sober, boring performances on the WC so far I thnk the team is very strong. But then again, so is Brasil of course.

Should be an interesting match. Let's hope it's the greatest match in the tourney like in 1994 and 1998, but this time with a different winner.

[plg]

Dave, the biggest difference between this Brazil and the average Brazil is that this is actually a team.

The tem has been together for 3 years, with the same system, same tactics and virtually the same key players. It's very gelled, players understand each other very well.

With some big players out of the squad, like Ronaldinho and Adriano, our greatest strenght is the sinergy in this team.

So I also doubt you have a better team

I hope the game delivers and ends up being the clash of titans anticipated!

[yovan]

Comparing Holland with Brazil, really?

[Dutch Dave]

Comparing Holland with Brazil, really?

Yeah. We are always arrogant enough to do that.

Plus, I think Holland is, despite our boring performances so far, pretty much stronger than we have been lately. Add to that I can't remember the last time Brasil beat us easily. I think we have a chance. We're strong this year.

[Mario]

I don't think we are underestimating Holland, in fact I have heard nice comments about how they play by friends of mine and even the TV people are complimenting Robben.

Ivory Coast entered the game to physically hurt our players and they succeeded in injuring Elano

Hopefully Dani Alves will have a better game, but if not maybe then an alternative is needed, and Júlio Baptista is not the fittest alternative around eventhough he is the fittest man when you talk about human shapes. I'd like to see something new and cool if possible, have no idea what though!

[el sid]

I'd like to see something new and cool if possible, have no idea what though!

Gomes upfront, on his own

[Mario]

After the adaptation, in some minutes we would see Gomes man-marking Sketelenburg

[yovan]

Yeah. We are always arrogant enough to do that.

Plus, I think Holland is, despite our boring performances so far, pretty much stronger than we have been lately. Add to that I can't remember the last time Brasil beat us easily. I think we have a chance. We're strong this year.

I don't really care about arrogance as long as you prove it on the pitch, honestly.

I just fail to see how Holland are a better TEAM than Brazil. Brazil are THE TEAM in international football right now. They play like a club, not like an international team. Spain are a team that plays like a club too, but then it easier when there are like 8 players from the same club.

Holland are more solid than in the past, there are always (almost) 6 players behind the ball, but they haven't been tested so far. The defenders are nothing special, all of them. Brazil, for example, have the best goalkeeper in the world, the best right back, LÚCIO and Juan.

Actually, I think if Holland is better than Brazil in something it is individually, because right now Robben is the most brilliant player. Although he hasn't played against a team that will give no space yet.

[yovan]

Mario, I thought Daniel Alves played well against Chile, giving you more dynamism with the ball. Against Portugal he was poor, though.

[Mario]

He was better against Chile, but I'm comparing him to what Elano was doing when I say I want something new. The trend is Daniel Alves again, and I hope he repeats his Copa América 2007 final display against Argentina tomorrow against the Netherlands

[robbert_o154]

I don't really care about arrogance as long as you prove it on the pitch, honestly.

I just fail to see how Holland are a better TEAM than Brazil. Brazil are THE TEAM in international football right now. They play like a club, not like an international team. Spain are a team that plays like a club too, but then it easier when there are like 8 players from the same club.

Holland are more solid than in the past, there are always (almost) 6 players behind the ball, but they haven't been tested so far. The defenders are nothing special, all of them. Brazil, for example, have the best goalkeeper in the world, the best right back, LÚCIO and Juan.

Actually, I think if Holland is better than Brazil in something it is individually, because right now Robben is the most brilliant player. Although he hasn't played against a team that will give no space yet.

To me, Brazil seems more of a team now than they've ever done since I started watching the WC ('86, Mexico). More so even than the 1994 side.

Also agree that the Dutch defence hasn't been properly tested so far. A lot of people I speak at work or in the pub during matches are overconfident on account of us now having "a solid defence" but to me that remains to be seen. The opponents that we've had in the tournament so far, as well as in qualification, haven't been anywhere near the standard of Brazil and I don't take it as a given that they'll hold up today.

[Dutch Dave]

I don't really care about arrogance as long as you prove it on the pitch, honestly.

I just fail to see how Holland are a better TEAM than Brazil. Brazil are THE TEAM in international football right now. They play like a club, not like an international team. Spain are a team that plays like a club too, but then it easier when there are like 8 players from the same club.

Holland are more solid than in the past, there are always (almost) 6 players behind the ball, but they haven't been tested so far. The defenders are nothing special, all of them. Brazil, for example, have the best goalkeeper in the world, the best right back, LÚCIO and Juan.

Actually, I think if Holland is better than Brazil in something it is individually, because right now Robben is the most brilliant player. Although he hasn't played against a team that will give no space yet.

You act like I said Holland will steamroll Brazil. I haven't said anything of the sort, and if I did, I was kidding.

You however said Holland can't even be compared with Brazil, which is ofcourse BS. Is Robinho better than Robben? Is Kaka in his current form so much better than Sneijder? Gilberto and Melo better than Van Bommel and De Jong? The only line where Brazil is obviously better is in defense, possibly apart from Bastos.

Like I said before, Brazil are clearly the favorites. But you act like they're a dozen times better. I sincerely doubt that. But we'll see...

[20LEGEND]

Comparing Holland with Brazil, really?

Seemingly a fair comparison.

[PMLF]

Now it's time for the Dutch to laugh at us.

Anyway, I think Brazil was doing all right until the first Dutch goal, these things happen. And FM happens.

[ANDEHLSON]

In FIFA Worldcup 2010 he made brazil crash out in quarter finals mainly because of bad team selection.

Didn't take long for wikipedia to get an update.

[Candre168]

I think it's good you lost, now finally someone with sense will be appointed coach.

Sometimes you have to take a step back to go forwards...

[yovan]

You act like I said Holland will steamroll Brazil. I haven't said anything of the sort, and if I did, I was kidding.

You however said Holland can't even be compared with Brazil, which is ofcourse BS. Is Robinho better than Robben? Is Kaka in his current form so much better than Sneijder? Gilberto and Melo better than Van Bommel and De Jong? The only line where Brazil is obviously better is in defense, possibly apart from Bastos.

Like I said before, Brazil are clearly the favorites. But you act like they're a dozen times better. I sincerely doubt that. But we'll see...

I wanted to start a discussion with Paulo. I even said that to him in another thread.

Look, you said that Holland were a better TEAM and it's something that made no sense, probably because you had never seen the current Brazil team. Brazil ARE, even after losing the game, the best TEAM in the tournament. You also said that Holland had no weak link and well... no team is perfect, but Holland are nothing special at back. I think even you know that.

And I said that you were better individually, so...

[Helarxe]

We should get an European coach for our European players

Mourinho please. He can do like in FM and stay at Real meanwhile.

[PMLF]

Didn't take long for wikipedia to get an update.

That's a pretty subjective thing to post there...

I think it's good you lost, now finally someone with sense will be appointed coach.

Sometimes you have to take a step back to go forwards...

Yes, I want Mano Menezes to replace him, but whoever comes can expect to be criticized a lot as well.

[yovan]

Seemingly a fair comparison.

Unfortunately, you don't know enough about football to undertand what I said. But since you read everything I say, I'm sure you will learn.

[robbert_o154]

My commiserations to the Brazilian fans; Holland really had no business getting away with a win there.

[PMLF]

I wanted to start a discussion with Paulo. I even said that to him in another thread.

Look, you said that Holland were a better TEAM and it's something that made no sense, probably because you had never seen the current Brazil team. Brazil ARE, even after losing the game, the best TEAM in the tournament. You also said that Holland had no weak link and well... no team is perfect, but Holland are nothing special at back. I think even you know that.

And I said that you were better individually, so...

Yes, the team gelled and play well together, despite Felipe Melo and Michel Bastos, but the thing is that Dunga would always be judged by the outcome, if Brazil had won, he would be a genius, but losing he is an idiot.

But leaving the outcome aside, Dunga wasn't really bad, especially considering he never managed before. Unfortunately for him a defeat in a WC means you are out.

[Pires777]

I guess pragmatism is no substitute for charisma huh Paulo :o

[PMLF]

I guess pragmatism is no substitute for charisma huh Paulo :o

Pragmatism is not to be blamed for this defeat, it's some players and the Dutch that have to be blamed.

And charisma don't win games.

[20LEGEND]

Unfortunately, you don't know enough about football to undertand what I said. But since you read everything I say, I'm sure you will learn.

Nice arrogance, but considering I'm paid for my opinions on football I assure you it's misplaced arrogance.

[Astafjevs]

I don't understand why the Dutch guys here are being the way they are. Obviously good grace in victory is a great trait to have, but I think they're going too far, because their victory was hardly like a complete robbery.

[yovan]

Yes, the team gelled and play well together, despite Felipe Melo and Michel Bastos, but the thing is that Dunga would always be judged by the outcome, if Brazil had won, he would be a genius, but losing he is an idiot.

But leaving the outcome aside, Dunga wasn't really bad, especially considering he never managed before. Unfortunately for him a defeat in a WC means you are out.

I know, but you know that I don't judge teams based on the outcome of a game. I was actually liking Brazil today, but football has those things and in the end only a team can win the WC.

Also, you were looking good on the ball. Then the dynamic of the game changed and the team lost it.

And because I don't want to sound like a Dunga fan, although I like to do it NOW, this is the kind of game that a brilliant player is needed. Kaká was a gamble that had it risks. Unfortunately, he's not KAKÁ anymore.

[PMLF]

I know, but you know that I don't judge teams based on the outcome of a game. I was actually liking Brazil today, but football has those things and in the end only a team can win the WC.

Also, you were looking good on the ball. Then the dynamic of the game changed and the team lost it.

And because I don't want to sound like a Dunga fan, although I like to do it NOW, this is the kind of game that a brilliant player is needed. Kaká was a gamble that had it risks. Unfortunately, he's not KAKÁ anymore.

Even before the WC I said Kaká should have undergone a surgery, so ideally Dunga wouldn't have had to take that gamble, but then again it's not like there were any good options to replace Kaká and those who could have replaced him, bar Ronaldinho and Diego, were barely given chances to prove themselves...

Dunga is almost crying in the press conference.

[yovan]

Nice arrogance, but considering I'm paid for my opinions on football I assure you it's misplaced arrogance.

Well, if that's true, why don't you start talking about football.

[masteR+_+]

Nice arrogance, but considering I'm paid for my opinions on football I assure you it's misplaced arrogance.

I'm impressed!

Btw, hopefully very few of these players will remain for the next campaign.

[why?]

Nice arrogance, but considering I'm paid for my opinions on football I assure you it's misplaced arrogance.

Aren't you an odds compiler for a bookmaker? Or am i thinking of someone else?

[Pires777]

Pragmatism is not to be blamed for this defeat, it's some players and the Dutch that have to be blamed.

And charisma don't win games.

Well i'm sorry. I thought dirty players like Melo and constant diving/cheating from the likes of Alves and Maicon....scrappy 1-0 wins...those were the kind of things you liked?

As soon as Brazil went a goal down...who were they going to turn to? Name one player in that team that could have shouldered the responsibility, please.

[yovan]

Even before the WC I said Kaká should have undergone a surgery, so ideally Dunga wouldn't have had to take that gamble, but then again it's not like there were any good options to replace Kaká and those who could have replaced him, bar Ronaldinho and Diego, were barely given chances to prove themselves...

Dunga is almost crying in the press conference.

I feel sorry for him and I mean it. I know that he was going to be a bad winner, telling us that he was right and we weren't, but I wouldn't like to be in his position right now. Nobody is going to objective with him, although maybe it's his fault too.

[PMLF]

Well i'm sorry. I thought dirty players like Melo and constant diving/cheating from the likes of Alves and Maicon....scrappy 1-0 wins...those were the kind of things you liked?

I never liked FM, but there is nothing wrong with winning in a pragmatic way, but losing is part of the game.

As soon as Brazil went a goal down...who were they going to turn to? Name one player in that team that could have shouldered the responsibility, please.

Maicon was good in the WC, Lúcio was good too, Elano was great until he got injured.

And you have to understand that there are few real stars nowadays, Brazil have to play more as a team to overcome that, and that's what Dunga did.

I feel sorry for him and I mean it. I know that he was going to be a bad winner, telling us that he was right and we weren't, but I wouldn't like to be in his position right now. Nobody is going to objective with him, although maybe it's his fault too.

Yes, I criticized him a lot too, but today I am more defending him than criticizing...

[masteR+_+]

Yes, I criticized him a lot too, but today I am more defending him than criticizing...

He only made one sub though.

[PMLF]

He only made one sub though.

Yes, but not like he had any great options anyway.

[yovan]

I don't understand why the Dutch guys here are being the way they are. Obviously good grace in victory is a great trait to have, but I think they're going too far, because their victory was hardly like a complete robbery.

Look, after the game, everybody knows a lot.

I was expecting the game to be similar to the CL final and I'm sure many people thought that the game was over at ht. Everybody saw that Brazil were a better TEAM.

Now, because of my fault, the Brazilians are being attacked, when I'm the most arrogant in here by a mile. It's not their fault that I talk too much. I'm sure nobody said that Holland had no chance anyway, just that Brazil were better. The RESULT proved us/ME wrong.

PS: I love the Dutch users, especially Micado and DJ. I hope you guys reach the final.

[Pires777]

I never liked FM, but there is nothing wrong with winning in a pragmatic way, but losing is part of the game.

Maicon was good in the WC, Lúcio was good too, Elano was great until he got injured.

And you have to understand that there are few real stars nowadays, Brazil have to play more as a team to overcome that, and that's what Dunga did.

Yes, I criticized him a lot too, but today I am more defending him than criticizing...

I guess that sums it up really.

Yeah, there are few stars in brazil today. Most of them of course sat at home

[Helarxe]

A World Cup has 31 losers and 1 winner. It's not surprising there's more fun in gloating at the defeated than in actually celebrating winning.

Of Germany, Spain, Argentina and Holland only one will still be happy in a couple of weeks.

We potentially escaped a traumatic final against Argentina, whoever lost would be utterly crushed

[masteR+_+]

I guess that sums it up really.

Yeah, there are few stars in brazil today. Most of them of course sat at home

The same boring crap of a couple of months ago.

It's July already!

[yovan]

He only made one sub though.

A game changer was missing in the squad.

About making more substitutions, a part from not having that kind of player, there wans't much he could do because Brazil couldn't keep the ball. Taking more defensive players out, would have been the end for you.

[Astafjevs]

Look, after the game, everybody knows a lot.

I was expecting the game to be similar to the CL final and I'm sure many people thought that the game was over at ht. Everybody saw that Brazil were a better TEAM.

Now, because of my fault, the Brazilians are being attacked, when I'm the most arrogant in here by a mile. It's not their fault that I talk too much. I'm sure nobody said that Holland had no chance anyway, just that Brazil were better. The RESULT proved us/ME wrong.

PS: I love the Dutch users, especially Micado and DJ. I hope you guys reach the final.

Read before you post, and attempt to understand what has been written.

People who have understood my post will know that I was commenting on people like robbert (above in this thread) saying they didn't deserve to win the match.

I could not care less what you had to say before the match, and I wasn't "attacking" Brazilians.

Like I said - read, understand, think.

[el sid]

Yes, but not like he had any great options anyway.

Still had Grafite tbh

[Pires777]

A game changer was missing in the squad.

About making more substitutions, a part from not having that kind of player, there wans't much he could do because Brazil couldn't keep the ball. Taking more defensive players out, would have been the end for you.

Which is what I was getting at.