Do You Want To Feel Like Pep?

[batata169]

excellent tactic mate, just wonderful.

[Justified]

excellent tactic mate, just wonderful.

Thank you. If I'm going to be honest I'm just lost on what to improve on. Defence is just rock solid and in attack it just looks so deadly and the opposition defence are at lost what to do

The only thing I can think of is making a more attack version (just higher mentality) and more cautious (more defensive mentality) for those situations where you go into matches as a very big favourite or big underdog but I wouldn't want to upset the rhythm of the tactic at the moment.

[batata169]

That would be great if you could make those versions, just for those matches against the really bottom teams.

[Justified]

That would be great if you could make those versions, just for those matches against the really bottom teams.

Probably not today but maybe after the new year. I feel the tactic now available combined with strategies/shouts is good enough to overpower opponents. Should help contribute against the AI trying to overcome the tactic.

[batata169]

Also how do you recommend to start games against the lesser teams at home ?

[Justified]

Also how do you recommend to start games against the lesser teams at home ?

I always start the same. Defensive + Pass To Feet + Play Wider (I'm playing with pass to feet again from the start, I'm in the process of updating the opening post about why) and then if I haven't broken them down in the first half I switch to Counter + Pass Into Space. The teams I've played against at home I've had no problem against.

[alang]

do you use opposition instruction?

[Justified]

do you use opposition instruction?

No, I feel it just disrupts the flow of the tactic. If you had to I would only suggest using the weaker foot OI but then again the effects would be minimal in my opinion.

[Crossface]

well im man city first seson just used this tatic against chelsea first game and i won 4-0

my biggest win this season fantastic tatic

[Justified]

well im man city first seson just used this tatic against chelsea first game and i won 4-0

my biggest win this season fantastic tatic

Excellent win their mate

Let's not forget we owe this all to Pep as well

[alang]

now I know how AI team will counter this tactic. For the last 3 matches, all AI keepers got MoM and for each match my player hit the post at least 2 times. But still not lost though, just narrow win and draw

[batata169]

So when its hard to break teams down we give roaming to both MCs ?

[yonko]

Well the best way is to get him coming from an angle as it'll be easier to score that way. I have made a few discoveries using wingplay on both the wingers and the central striker. "Move Into Channels" for wingers makes them cut in without the ball as they choose taht as their starting positions whereas the default "Cutting Inside" makes them stay out wide and then cut in with the ball. I guess the same could be used with the striker. Move Into Channels would see him start in the middle and move out wide whereas Cutting Inside would see him move a little wider and then cut inside with the ball.

If you combine the above with Roam From Position it looks very deadly. Just a recent discovery so still testing but that seems to be my interpetation. So atm Move Into Channels seems to be best on all three. But I guess you could use Cut Inside for the central striker but you might loose a little in the middle as he won't be there.

Oh, yes! Move into Channels is deadly for the front three! Very much like Barca IRL, right?

[yonko]

After reading everything, I suspect that you, Justified have read my mind. This is 90% of how I've played since the patch......Amazing how we see the same Pep Guardiola style and implementing it in the game. However, I have to admit your shouts are better, some of which I had never thought of......

I've downloaded the tactic and I shall have a look and compare. I bet yours might be even closer to mine that I think at the moment. And I might find even more hidden clues that make it better/more effective than mine. Although I'm very happy with mine, I'll check out yours so I can participate in this discussion.

Later.

p.s. Now this Tactics forum becomes interesting for me :-)

[Justified]

batata

No I said it was an option that you can do so. Are you having a hard time breaking them down? If you are maybe implement the attacking shout(s) earlier to up the tempo and width.

yonko

Run Into Channels is invaluable for the wingers in this system. Although IRL Henry liked cutting in with the ball quite a bit but that's his personal style not an instruction Pep has given him. Yes please have a look and compare. If you find something that works better for you then mine we could possibly switch ideas

[Justified]

Working on a V3 at the moment that will revisit passing. I'm not 100% convinced about the pasing at the moment. It's a little too stale for my liking and early tests are showing that it effects the way they play as well so what I might do is split them into bands with a set passing. Also not happy with the DMC. In defence I'm happy but his offensive contribution is not great imo.

[batata169]

So you're going to implement different passing settings ?

[Justified]

So you're going to implement different passing settings ?

Yes. The way I'm testing at the moment is three diffrent bands.

First band is low mixed which atm has been given to the Iniesta role and the inside forwards.

Second band is mixed which is given to the centrebacks, Toure and Valdes role.

Third band is high mixed given to the Fullbacks, Xavi and Ibrahimovic role.

As I mentioned before it effects how they play as it's not only how they distribute the ball it's how they meet it as well. So far it looks good although I might switched the passing between the Xavi and Iniesta role as so far the Iniesta role is seeing more of the ball

[batata169]

aaaagh this is so frustrating mate, I cant break down physical teams like stoke!

Any tips ?

[Justified]

aaaagh this is so frustrating mate, I cant break down physical teams like stoke!

Any tips ?

Hmm.. Maybe just start with the original starting strategy (attacking) and then tweak from there. If you go a goal down just "Retain Possession". If you've still not broke them maybe "Get Stuck In" in the second half and then add "Get Ball Forward" last ten mins.

[amer]

Hmm.. Maybe just start with the original starting strategy (attacking) and then tweak from there. If you go a goal down just "Retain Possession". If you've still not broke them maybe "Get Stuck In" in the second half and then add "Get Ball Forward" last ten mins.

Thanks for your tactic using my team tottenham 4 games 4 wins 15 goals. What was your starting 11 and how much success you had with Tottenham.

[yonko]

Hey Justified, looking at your tactic I notice that you and I have tried to achieve the same thing but using different ways. You use the Tactics Creator to alter Team Instructions while your players have constant set of instructions - for example, all your players have set mentalities that don't change when changing the team strategy, which only changes the tempo and width. Same thing with shouts. I've done the opposite - my tempo and D-line are always the same regardless of any other changes I make. For players instructions I have a combination of manually controlled and TC controlled - creative freedom is manually set for all players, while mentalities are left to TC. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say the differences are....

Anyway, I played a few games with your tactic and then I replayed them using mine. I repeated that a few times also, just to help me analyze and compare your tactic to mine.

Both tactics are equally achieving good levels of possession control. Yours creates more CCC's (8 to 9 per game) which my players miss though (2.3 goals per game), while mine crates less (4-5 CCC's per game) but my players score them more often (3 goals per game). Also your tactic is better at squeezing the ball out of the opposition but gives up more goals, while mine allows the opposition more long shots but allows less goals. That's because I don't use Offside Trap maybe or/and because both DC's have "cover" duties.

I will keep testing, analyzing and comparing though.

IMO to take full advantage of ''move into channels'' the AMRL need to have Runs from Deep often. The FC scores more goals when he has same Attacking mentality as the AMRL but without any Runs from Deep. Cross Ball often lets him drift out wide finding 1-on-1's from the side which are easier to score, plus clears space for the wing forwards to move inside - that's the real Barca. My 2MC's have normal creative freedom, mixed runs and hold up ball - deep/advanced playmaker combo. High creative freedom for the front three, roaming for the whole front five. I have to be honest and say that I think my offense is set up better that yours I can't see any needed improvements to be made.

That's all for now.

[yonko]

I just saw the passing comments and wanna add my opinion. I use short passing for the attackers and midfielders.

[RTHerringbone]

Fantastic opening post and some really interesting points made.

I've neglected touchline shouts but everything mentioned makes a load of sense, and since adopting these ideas, my team has noticeably improved.

My aim has always been to have an easy "click and win" strategy, but you just can't do that.

Using your idea of strategy changes and shouts makes a massive difference - thanks!

[Golden_Team]

Justified

I`m menager juventus and real madrid, where should i put diego and kaka?

Sorry for poor english

[Justified]

Hey Justified, looking at your tactic I notice that you and I have tried to achieve the same thing but using different ways. You use the Tactics Creator to alter Team Instructions while your players have constant set of instructions - for example, all your players have set mentalities that don't change when changing the team strategy, which only changes the tempo and width. Same thing with shouts. I've done the opposite - my tempo and D-line are always the same regardless of any other changes I make. For players instructions I have a combination of manually controlled and TC controlled - creative freedom is manually set for all players, while mentalities are left to TC. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say the differences are....

Anyway, I played a few games with your tactic and then I replayed them using mine. I repeated that a few times also, just to help me analyze and compare your tactic to mine.

Both tactics are equally achieving good levels of possession control. Yours creates more CCC's (8 to 9 per game) which my players miss though (2.3 goals per game), while mine crates less (4-5 CCC's per game) but my players score them more often (3 goals per game). Also your tactic is better at squeezing the ball out of the opposition but gives up more goals, while mine allows the opposition more long shots but allows less goals. That's because I don't use Offside Trap maybe or/and because both DC's have "cover" duties.

I will keep testing, analyzing and comparing though.

IMO to take full advantage of ''move into channels'' the AMRL need to have Runs from Deep often. The FC scores more goals when he has same Attacking mentality as the AMRL but without any Runs from Deep. Cross Ball often lets him drift out wide finding 1-on-1's from the side which are easier to score, plus clears space for the wing forwards to move inside - that's the real Barca. My 2MC's have normal creative freedom, mixed runs and hold up ball - deep/advanced playmaker combo. High creative freedom for the front three, roaming for the whole front five. I have to be honest and say that I think my offense is set up better that yours I can't see any needed improvements to be made.

That's all for now.

Well it's all work in progress so I'm still tweaking tweaking tweaking. I guess there are two ways of playing. One without a false nine and one with. The false nine wuold have to have lower mentality then the wingers otherwise he won't be coming deep and the wingers wouldn't push on. I'll try otu the idea of having the wingers on FWRD Runs Often but I liked the option of them either running forward or meeting the ball.

I'll give your settings a go but from what I've seen the playmaker does need FWRD Runs Rarely otherwise he'll run ahead of the ball and be hard to find.

Fantastic opening post and some really interesting points made.

I've neglected touchline shouts but everything mentioned makes a load of sense, and since adopting these ideas, my team has noticeably improved.

My aim has always been to have an easy "click and win" strategy, but you just can't do that.

Using your idea of strategy changes and shouts makes a massive difference - thanks!

They should work to some degree with every tactic. I feel the "winning by 3+ goals" shouts are extremely effective to kill off games and keep condition high.

Justified

I`m menager juventus and real madrid, where should i put diego and kaka?

Sorry for poor english

Diego wouldn't fit into the MC roles as he hasn't got high enough work rate so you'll suffer defensively. He is also not really quick enough for the winger roles either so all in all you should look for a tactic where he could play as an AMC. I would recommened a 442 Diamond.

Same with Kaka really although he has "Competent" AML position so you could retrain him into an Inside Forward Left and play him there but then where do you play Ronaldo?

[yonko]

The idea is to implement Pep's tactic in FM right? Well, then Xavi ( the playmaker ) does make runs in the box or ahead of the play. That's why I've given him FWR (actually now is RFD = runs from deep :-) ) mixed AND roam from position ticked. He has lower mentality than Iniesta, because one is set up as Deep-Lying Playmaker and the other as Advanced. If you watch Barca under Pep, the front five have license to move freely around the field - especially Xavi, Iniesta and this season Ibra. So for the FC position I wouldn't say that he is restricted to only come deep and play as a "false 9". One can see Zlatan move to the wings just as much as dropping deep.

I agree there isn't only one way of setting up this tactic. To tell you honestly, I wanna increase the possession and pass completion to really reflect how Barca play this season. I think they've taken it the next level when it comes to keeping the ball! I mean they averaged 69% possession in Champs League group stages - that's amazing!!!! How's your "passing" experiment getting on? Are you also aiming for more possession or for more scoring chances/goals?

[Justified]

I have a new version if people want to try it out. I lack the time to really test it out but I did try for 6-7 games and it did look good. I've moved the Toure role into midfield so it's a flat three. Reason was because I'm not totally convinced by the DMC position in FM. I don't know why but it just seems a little static. I've also taken some of yonko's points on board as well so some have been implemented (thanks yonko). I feel this version is how Barca play however the Abidal role is more attacking whereas IRL he would be a defensive player with no forward runs.

Other tweaks I've made is the Iniesta role, he now has more mentality and also move into channels too. Reason why was because when you see Iniesta play you'd see he is positioned somewhere between MCL and AMLC IRL and cuts inside to more central position where Xavi is more central orientated so you could say the tactic is touching onto a more asymetrical tactic. Also his role is now simply "Central Midfielder" and also the Ibrahimovic role is simply "Advanced Forward". Not only does it simplify but it also makes the demands of players less when playing the tactic.

I have also used no shouts during the game because in testing I'd actually forgotten The team have held around 60% possession as well so it's progressing really well this tactic.

Version 3

http://www.mediafire.com/?ttig5czn5yh

[batata169]

So do we use the shouts with this new version ?

[batata169]

Umm i have a question, why is the defensive line unticked ?

[yonko]

I have a new version if people want to try it out. I lack the time to really test it out but I did try for 6-7 games and it did look good. I've moved the Toure role into midfield so it's a flat three. Reason was because I'm not totally convinced by the DMC position in FM. I don't know why but it just seems a little static. I've also taken some of yonko's points on board as well so some have been implemented (thanks yonko). I feel this version is how Barca play however the Abidal role is more attacking whereas IRL he would be a defensive player with no forward runs.

Other tweaks I've made is the Iniesta role, he now has more mentality and also move into channels too. Reason why was because when you see Iniesta play you'd see he is positioned somewhere between MCL and AMLC IRL and cuts inside to more central position where Xavi is more central orientated so you could say the tactic is touching onto a more asymetrical tactic. Also his role is now simply "Central Midfielder" and also the Ibrahimovic role is simply "Advanced Forward". Not only does it simplify but it also makes the demands of players less when playing the tactic.

I have also used no shouts during the game because in testing I'd actually forgotten The team have held around 60% possession as well so it's progressing really well this tactic.

Version 3

http://www.mediafire.com/?ttig5czn5yh

I'm happy my advice has been taken. I see that you have incorporated better instructions for the front three. How are things looking on the field, has that improved the attacking play? I recommend ticking the Counter Attack box to yes and watch the front three rip up the defense when there is numerical advantage. If no shouts in your test run, does that mean you stuck with Fluid/Control all the time? BTW, are you testing/improving this tactic with Barca?

[Crewe_Alex]

Hey mate, with the new V3, can I use it with an average team, example Birmingham city?

Also, do I need to use shouts with the new version?

[Crewe_Alex]

I cannot believe this version 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am Crewe, second season in League One.

After about 5-6 matches I was using another tactic, however I decided to use yours and have won 10 games in a row!!!!!!!!!!!

Unbelievable tactic mate

Best tactic on 10.2 patch by a mile

[Justified]

So do we use the shouts with this new version ?

You can yes. I just didn't whilst testing.

Umm i have a question, why is the defensive line unticked ?

Mistake on my part. I have no idea why that happened, should be one click into push up.

I'm happy my advice has been taken. I see that you have incorporated better instructions for the front three. How are things looking on the field, has that improved the attacking play? I recommend ticking the Counter Attack box to yes and watch the front three rip up the defense when there is numerical advantage. If no shouts in your test run, does that mean you stuck with Fluid/Control all the time? BTW, are you testing/improving this tactic with Barca?

Does look better yes and weirdly enough "Advanced Striker" seems to work better then "Complete Forward" although the only diffrence is no hold up ball and mixed TTB's. Will monitor it though. In the test I only played a handful of games so I just went with it. Normally I would play like I've posted with the shouts and stuff.

Still looking at Closing Down though as I've changed to a flat 3 midfield because playing a DMC would mean higher closing down whereas with a flat 3 you make the two lines (midfield and defence) play tighter together with noone in between the lines. It is possible to have lower closing down this way due to the compactness.

Also I'm considering changing the mentalities a bit to a more Rule of three system with the three midfielders "floating" between defence/support/attack.

As for the testing no I'm testing with Tottenham as they're more midtable but do have reasonable players to make it work

Hey mate, with the new V3, can I use it with an average team, example Birmingham city?

Also, do I need to use shouts with the new version?

Possibly but the demand of players is high but it's doable.

I cannot believe this version 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am Crewe, second season in League One.

After about 5-6 matches I was using another tactic, however I decided to use yours and have won 10 games in a row!!!!!!!!!!!

Unbelievable tactic mate

Best tactic on 10.2 patch by a mile

Glad you're enjoying it

[Crewe_Alex]

Another question mate

It starts with Control. If were favourites can we start with Attacking?

Or if were underdogs can we start with counter or defend?

[Justified]

Another question mate

It starts with Control. If were favourites can we start with Attacking?

Or if were underdogs can we start with counter or defend?

Just in the process of uploading a 3.1 version if you will where you can use the shouts I posted up top. Give me another 10 mins

[Crewe_Alex]

Ok. So v3.1 will include shouts?

Can you tell me which shouts I can use please cheers coz in the OP its too complicated

[Justified]

Ok. So v3.1 will include shouts?

Can you tell me which shouts I can use please cheers coz in the OP its too complicated

It's not that complicated. After you've made the team talk you go straight into tactics (before you press continue) select Defensive then after you've pressed continue you select "Play Wider" and "Pass To Feet" and then start the match. During the match you just follow what I've posted up top. Usually if you're a good team you rarely venture over the Standard strategy because Control + Attacking are chasing goal shouts for this tactic

[Crewe_Alex]

Kool I just did that now and drew 1-1 with Charlton I love this tactic, its what Panathinaikos use irl

When is 3.1 coming out and what are the differences? Is it more successful? Sorry for all the questions

[Justified]

Kool I just did that now and drew 1-1 with Charlton I love this tactic, its what Panathinaikos use irl

When is 3.1 coming out and what are the differences? Is it more successful? Sorry for all the questions

Version 3.1 is up in the first post

It was just some tweaks which had gone missing from version 3 for some odd reason. So with the new version you can use the shouts I posted.

I also updated the passing and mentalities due to changing the formation from 4-1-2-2-1 to 4-3-2-1 because the old settings where suited to the other formation. Also the Ball Winning Midfielder (Toure role) has got higher Closing Down now as well as a result of the formation change as well.

Also I feel I'm coming towards the final version now as I've almost taken this as far as it can go in terms of Playing Like Pep.

[Crewe_Alex]

Its a really good tactic well done

[Crewe_Alex]

I also see youve changed the advanced attacker to a complete forward?

And youve changed the central midfielder into a deep lying playmaker

A few changes there

[Justified]

I also see youve changed the advanced attacker to a complete forward?

And youve changed the central midfielder into a deep lying playmaker

A few changes there

Yup but on both roles I just kept the instructions so they are the same as before it was just for cosmetic changes so people know what kind of players to look for. Although you can be more leniant with the advanced playmaker as a normal CM would still do a good job there.

[Crewe_Alex]

Kool. I dont understand why you would start with an attacking strategy if your going to change it when the game starts LOL

When I left it as attacking I created more chances

Do I have to use the shouts?

V3 worked fine without them

[Justified]

Kool. I dont understand why you would start with an attacking strategy if your going to change it when the game starts LOL

When I left it as attacking I created more chances

Do I have to use the shouts?

V3 worked fine without them

Because it allows you to select the shouts before the match starts so you don't have to pause and then select. You don't have to use shouts at all, they're just tailor made to how Barca might start matches and then tweak to suit the match situations.

[Crewe_Alex]

Ok thanks for that mate

It really works even though I lost 2-0 at home. I had 14 shots and they had 4

So I can use attacking at the start and see how that goes?

Have you had any success with this tactic?

[Corkey]

3.1 has no DMC?

[Justified]

3.1 has no DMC?

Nope, Ball Winning Mid instead

[Corkey]

Nope, Ball Winning Mid instead

Is their anyway to make it so he is DMC?

[Bobby G]

Anyone with a screenshot of what the formation looks like?