If you are unhappy with FM10/SI state here

[djwilko6]

Is it just me or is this thread going exactly the same way as the last one?

I wonder what the reason could be for this...

If people could try and keep their problems to the one thread they already created insted of shouting about it all over the place then people may be more inclined to listen (OP excepted because his last thread was closed).

The simple fact is some people cant put across their problems without thinly veiled insults at other people, or people who may disagree with their personal view. Yes this is a forum, so by all means have your say, but stop throwing a hissyfit when somebody disagrees with you!

On-topic, been playing since CM4 (no need for me to brag about 13 years, as if that makes an opinion more valid), the only problem I have is strikers are probably scoring too many goals. This is probably down to defensive problems but I dont code the game so have no clue.

Recommendation about the problem? Get it fixed in that patch, which I am more than happy to wait for, as long as it arrives "before Christmas" as stated by various staff whenever they get asked.

[Hammer1000]

Another thing, if you want to 'campaign' properly, why don't you get involved in beta testing? Also, why don't you stop posting highly subjective rants all over the place (which many people find tiresome) and start posting up some evidence? Your arguments about the game would be far more interesting and worthwhile if they were written with better clarity, in a non-emotional way and with supporting evidence.

If you really believe that there are thousands of issues in the game, surely your best chance to help to improve it is to get involved, post up screenshots, PKMs and save game files, and to try to be as constructive as possible.

Regards,

C.

Crouchy - Rants???

Evidence of thousands of issues - Just read the topics in the Forums fella

I was about the first to post a lengthy thread detailing the defensive issues in FM10 and initial feedback was that the game was not counting particular instances as tackles.

Now people have played the game a bit and seen these things for themselves all this feedback has now seen SI change their stance on the matter and as far as i was last aware they are going to try to sort the issue with a future patch.

There is one for instance mate, now look at all the issues that got through Beta Testing, now imagine if i had done it and come up with all these problems that everybody else missed? Can you imagine anyone from SI saying "yeah he's right" when nobody else clocked it?

Do me a favour.

[Dicko99]

Is it just me or is this thread going exactly the same way as the last one?

this is down to one poster in particular, they feel the need to fight si's corner in every negative thread about the game. they cant come to terms with that some people are unhappy with the game. if the game is so fantastic as they make out then why arnt they playing it instaed of looking for arguments on here all the time.

[flashback790]

People on these forum don't throw hissyfits when someone disagrees with them, they throw them when you critise FM, which as buyers of the game, we are entiltled to do, I try to maintain my critism to constructive critism and try to tell SI what I would like to see in future games or patches, others just want to vent(fair enough) and others just want to insult people and argue for the sake of argueing and won't allow anyone besmirching their holy grail of football management.

Hopefully FM11 will address my problems with player quality over tactics, if not, then i'll look at Championship Manager, which will no doubt be light years behind FM and i'll be back here again. But until then, i'll see what I can do with Dundee till the 2nd patch, then throw myself into a career game.

[crouchaldinho]

you need about 8 PHD's in tacticsology to get anything out of your team,

You really don't. Just a bit of common sense will do the trick.

I think Martin O'Neil said that tactics don't win games, players do.

It wasn't Martin O'Neil. It was Brian Clough and he actually said, 'Players lose you games, not tactics', which actually has quite a different meaning.

Regards,

C.

[Elmo]

Crouchaldinho.

Do you have any evidence to counter what people are saying, or are you happy to leave it with counterindicative one liners?

"E."

To add my tuppence, I am *quite* satisied with what Ive played thus far, although I still feel long shots to be an issue, as well as strikers scoring far too many goals. I would also like to see a more polished feel to the game, with some bugs and long known weak areas of the game such as regens and transfer system to be noted, acknowleged and built upon for the next game in the series.

[djwilko6]

Crouchaldinho.

Do you have any evidence to counter what people are saying, or are you happy to leave it with counterindicative one liners?

"E."

Do a search of threads he's made.

At least research before trying to put someone down

[Elmo]

Noones trying to put anyone down at all, Id just interested to hear his take on things in an expanded manner.

[flashback790]

I am interested to hear Crouchaldinho's critisms of the game, or hasn't he got any?

[nev147]

Another thing, if you want to 'campaign' properly, why don't you get involved in beta testing? Also, why don't you stop posting highly subjective rants all over the place (which many people find tiresome) and start posting up some evidence? Your arguments about the game would be far more interesting and worthwhile if they were written with better clarity, in a non-emotional way and with supporting evidence.

If you really believe that there are thousands of issues in the game, surely your best chance to help to improve it is to get involved, post up screenshots, PKMs and save game files, and to try to be as constructive as possible.

Regards,

C.

I understand your points Crouchy and I myself have read the thread and I'm not disillusioned with the game but I do feel the game has become a bit too 'micro' which I would have thought would be right up my street but it seems the game takes a bit too long IMO - if I have a spare hour I cant play a few games and have a nice little session- it seems that there is so much that needs doing that I spend an hour and I've played like 2 games and feel that it was not as fun as it used to be and can be a bit of a wrench some times.

I just quoted you Crouchy because sometimes there is no supporting evidence becasue its a subjective opinion and its hard to put your finger on it. I do love the series and seem to have a bit of a love/hate relationship with FM at the moment - maybe its becasue I'm a bit older now. Just seems that you have to dedicate yourself to Fm like no other game if you want to get stuck into it and has become a bit too intense and too much of a slog now. I can't believe I am saying this becasue I thought I would have loved it being so indepth and so demanding in terms of what is required of the 'Gaffer' that the enjoyment had diminished.

Maybe the game has become too complicted and maybe SI has created such a following and high standards each year and as we on these forums always seeking for perfection it seems the series maybe has become too big for its own good in terms of SI being able to handle the game - which I think can be seen in the updated patches of patches and the fact that some people think the game is unplayable untill February (not myself) and the about of bugs that seem to be about for various people - yes there will allways be bugs but some of them have been quite serious.

I think people rant and rave so much is because they love the game and have been on the rollercoaster journey on FM for ages and they believe it is not the game it once was - but I guess its us as the customers who have driven the game to what it has become - and have become a bit disillusioned. Also not sure people have the time to post screenshots and things becasue I posted some screenshots regarding regens and have talked alot about them recently and it took me ages to upload them and discuss them etc takes quite a while and a bit of effort - as you know because of your great 2039 thread!

[crouchaldinho]

Crouchaldinho.

Do you have any evidence to counter what people are saying, or are you happy to leave it with counterindicative one liners?

"E."

E.,

I don't see any problem with what I am posting. I am remaining calm, posting clearly and trying to be as objective as possible. I read a lot of highly subjective 'rants' on here and I can't help but play devil's advocate and argue the flip side of the coin.

Do you mean counter-intuitive by the way? In what way are my replies counter-intuitive?

Is there anything in particular you would like me to provide evidence for?

Regards,

C.

[djwilko6]

Hammer, I've seen your posts on here for the last 2 years, usually your threads could make alot of sense but without proof of what you're saying then it can seem like being "just another rant". Don't take that the wrong way because I do enjoy some of your threads for the questions they pose, but as has been said, get involved in the Beta process BEFORE the game comes out and try and get your points put across during that time.

If you take the attitude that you wont get listened to in Beta testing, what makes you think you'll get listened to more outside of it?

Flashback - It may seem that way sometimes, but when you're hearing the same thing, from the same people, over and over again, I'm sure it can get frustrating. I get tired seeing WWFAN having to defend himself (and his tactics wizard) from one user in particular, who just seems to post just to try and get a negaitve response out of him.

I've said this before and I'll happily say it again, its not what people say, its the way they say it.

[crouchaldinho]

Noones trying to put anyone down at all, Id just interested to hear his take on things in an expanded manner.

What would you like me to expand upon?

I am interested to hear Crouchaldinho's critisms of the game, or hasn't he got any?

Naturally there are things that I would like to see improved. It's never going to be a perfect game.

You will find my feedback either in the beta forum, the bugs forum or the data issues forum.

Regards,

C.

[flashback790]

C. I don't have time and frankly can't bothered to trawl all the other forums to hear your issues, so spill, what would you like improved? You've seen my list of major things I want fixed or improved. And could you stop the regards C. thing, its annoying.

[crouchaldinho]

Good post Nev147. I'll reply to a few points below.

I understand your points Crouchy and I myself have read the thread and I'm not disillusioned with the game but I do feel the game has become a bit too 'micro' which I would have thought would be right up my street but it seems the game takes a bit too long IMO - if I have a spare hour I cant play a few games and have a nice little session- it seems that there is so much that needs doing that I spend an hour and I've played like 2 games and feel that it was not as fun as it used to be and can be a bit of a wrench some times.

That's fair enough and I do see where you are coming from. On the other hand though, I would suggest listening to the podcast from the FM Britain guys. The latest one is about reading the match engine and it argues that you don't need to constantly tweak sliders and micro manage to such an extent. I think a lot of people believe that they should be making changes all of the time and they get frustrated because it all takes to long and doesn't always work very well. Actually, I find that I can play the game in a simple way, with the odd tweak here and there, and really enjoy it. Also, I've found a lot of the new features, like the tactics creator and the backroom assistance, have made things quite a bit faster for me.

I just quoted you Crouchy because sometimes there is no supporting evidence becasue its a subjective opinion and its hard to put your finger on it.

That's absolutely true, however there is a difference between a well thought out post like yours where you have given a subjective opinion but backed it up with a convincing argument and some of the other posts that turn up regularly. I'm talking about the 'the game is broken' and 'SI are taking our money and sitting with their feet up' posts, which are just so over the top.

I think people rant and rave so much is because they love the game and have been on the rollercoaster journey on FM for ages

Yes, I guess that's true.

I did my fair share of 'ranting' when FM09 was out but I like to think that I did it constructively and posted up my thoughts clearly without getting emotional and going over the top.

Regards,

C.

[The Sean]

Why has this fallen into a series of character attacks? I do not agree with the OP but I find his position to be both fair and worthy of debate. I do believe that this needs to follow the suggestions I offered in an earlier post. Let Crouchaldinho be. He has demonstrated himself to be a worthy member of this forum. Let Hammer be. He seems overly animated about his position but has done nothing deserving of ridicule. I like to read these threads but I also like to see them maintain a scholarly level.

[crouchaldinho]

Hammer, I've seen your posts on here for the last 2 years, usually your threads could make alot of sense but without proof of what you're saying then it can seem like being "just another rant". Don't take that the wrong way because I do enjoy some of your threads for the questions they pose, but as has been said, get involved in the Beta process BEFORE the game comes out and try and get your points put across during that time.

If you take the attitude that you wont get listened to in Beta testing, what makes you think you'll get listened to more outside of it?

Flashback - It may seem that way sometimes, but when you're hearing the same thing, from the same people, over and over again, I'm sure it can get frustrating. I get tired seeing WWFAN having to defend himself (and his tactics wizard) from one user in particular, who just seems to post just to try and get a negaitve response out of him.

I've said this before and I'll happily say it again, its not what people say, its the way they say it.

I think you're spot on with this post djwilko6 and especially the last comment.

[Sussex Hammer]

Flashback - It may seem that way sometimes, but when you're hearing the same thing, from the same people, over and over again, I'm sure it can get frustrating. I get tired seeing WWFAN having to defend himself (and his tactics wizard) from one user in particular, who just seems to post just to try and get a negaitve response out of him.

QUOTE]

I think the thing is if it's hearing the same old thing then there obviously are problems. I'm sure people totally defending the game do get frustrated at peoples criticisms of it, but at the same time those who have their criticisms get frustrated with those who defend the game to the hilt not admitting there are problems.

I mean, for someone to say it has it's problems is an understatement and rather than calling for a critic to provide evidence just a look at the bug forums is needed. I've provided several examples of problems above...

Noone is asking for a perfect game, what annoys people are the same issues occuring release after release and not enough focus on those with too much focus on the mundane fancy useless "improvements" that are thrown in.

[nev147]

Ok cheers Crouchy, I will take a look at the podcast.

[crouchaldinho]

I really do recommend the new podcast from FM Britain, which is all about reading the match engine and making simple changes.

They do talk about the myth that you 'need a PhD' to understand the game (which has been mentioned in this thread more than once). They also explain why they think that isn't true and what sort of simple changes you can make. I think it might help some of you to understand that it isn't that complicated and that it can be fun to 'roleplay' as a manager and make simple tactical decisions before or during a game.

Regards,

C.

[nev147]

I really do recommend the new podcast from FM Britain, which is all about reading the match engine and making simple changes.

They do talk about the myth that you 'need a PhD' to understand the game (which has been mentioned in this thread more than once). They also explain why they think that isn't true and what sort of simple changes you can make. I think it might help some of you to understand that it isn't that complicated and that it can be fun to 'roleplay' as a manager and make simple tactical decisions before or during a game.

Regards,

C.

Many thanks Crouchy!!!!

[flashback790]

Sussex mate, i've been saying it for years, stop putting new features in for the sake of new features until you have fixed the basic issues people have with the game, FM is the best selling management game ONLY due to a lack of competition, the second the likes of Championship Manager or LMA Manager get their act together they could make a game that is better, and all the loyal buyers will switch to them, I think only then will SI go back to basics.

[Dicko99]

the second the likes of Championship Manager or LMA Manager get their act together they could make a game that is better, and all the loyal buyers will switch to them, I think only then will SI go back to basics.

id rather play none than these

[flashback790]

id rather play none than these

Right now, neither would I. But if they became better games(unlikely I know) would you still play FM if it wasn't the best game?

[Dicko99]

Right now, neither would I. But if they became better games(unlikely I know) would you still play FM if it wasn't the best game?

depending on patch 2 is whether ill be playin fm

[crouchaldinho]

For those who were talking about tactics earlier, here is a brilliant article by the FM Britain people which may also be of interest: http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/2009/11/25/why-making-things-easy-does-not-really-make-things-easier/

[emil_sbn]

Not unhappy but angry that I cant play my favourite game cause it crashes all the time when I´m in the middle of a match.

Without the crashes i would rate this game a 10/10 but now 7/10 maybe.

Been playing since Cm 01/02 and never had such problems with crashes that I am now it spoils the fun when u have to play matches that you already played cause the game have crashed. Thaugt the patch was gonna fix this.

If it doesnt do you have to wait for fm 2011 or go back to fm 2009?

My drivers and everything are all up to date, my machine should also be able to handle the game fine yet it happens.

I have never had any problems with previous versions of FM, SI what have you done with this years addition cause the previous versions NEVER crashed not for me once.

Thanks for a great game that i hope i can enjoy again soon.

[Hammer1000]

For me, i just feel like i am trying to play a game that i did not get a rule book for, well with at least half the pages missing anyway, whilst the AI got the whole book PLUS instructions on how best to abuse those rules.

I'll accept that in some form or another we both have the same options in game as one another, but that only works if i understand the options available and how to use them which i dont, whilst the AI already understands them.

Thats about the best way(especially as i have now had a glass of Brandy or two) to describe it.

[isuckatfm]

If my GK has three easy passes on yet stands with the ball until he is disposessed by the opposing attacker how in anybodys language is anyone supposed to be able to work out any tactical issues?

Personally speaking that is a bug and I would call it as such. Sure certain settings may make it more likely to happen and it really isn’t rocket science to figure them out, but it is still fundamentally an issue if it happens far too consistently or in a manner that does not feel natural.

As crouchaldinho said, if you came with something more concrete you might get your opinions heard as long as you are willing to accept that it is not that easy to balance a match engine to fully replicate real life football rather than saying the match engine is a 'mess'.

Take the longshots issue as an example. SI do statistical analysis of thousands of matches to judge long shot effectiveness. If their stats suggest they are a bit off, they get adjusted as has been hinted at. Otherwise they assume users are being 'emotionally anecdotal' or are doing something fundamentally wrong which is contributing to a higher frequency aka 'it's your tactics' (for the record I hate that and do not believe every goal ever conceded in real life or in FM is explainable by tactics. If it doesn't 'feel' right to the user then it is a potential issue regardless of tactical settings)

A while back you posted some pkms saying 'look, here is crap defending and long shots' and then never bothered to respond with any kind of critical analysis. If you had posted something along these lines re the Stoke pkm

Look at Whelan's long shot goal @ 44:42. The angle he is moving at with his first touch, he shouldn't really be able to hit a longshot like that. I would argue he should not even be looking to try one from there with that body shape regardless of long shot settings. From different positions on the pitch the angle he touches and then shooting would look okay e.g. from a wider location in and around the box, but from this central position it looks very unnatural to me.

Also note in the build up from 44:15 WHU #19 closing down like a schoolboy just chasing the ball while the WHU #8 simultaneously drops back to his nominal position continuously when he should be holding to deny the pass to the Stoke #15 instead of bobbing back and forth. Closing Down/Marking settings may play a role in both of these but in my opinion it does not look natural.

83:31 Again Whelan with an unnatural looking longshot goal. The midfielder is pressing him away from goal. He should not be able to just turn and shoot. To me it looks unnatural that (a) he chooses to do so and (b) he can generate the power from that range from more or less a standing point, rather than requiring momentum such as dribbling forward or coming on to a pass.

If you then added more examples of a similar ilk that you might observe in your general playing you have a reasonable bug report that might actually get looked at (but not necessarily agreed with as being an issue). You might say it's not your job which is fair enough, but is it really that hard to just note down the time and save a pkm? Surely the time it takes to do this is no different to the time it takes to write the posts you do criticising the match engine?

As a side note those two goals are a perfect example of why all the tactical spouting gets bloody annoying. People post standardised responses like robots without any knowledge of what actually happens in the match engine yet for both of the longshot goals in this pkm the West Ham tactics had enough players in position/pressing to deal with the situation. It had nothing to do with the standard responses on here re longshots and tactical settings such as creating room between defence and midfield nor the fact he should play with a DM (which I also hate as it is far from a necessity in real life). The manner in which the player struck them looked off, and if you consistently concede goals like this then frustration is an understandable response.

But Hammer1000 you have to realise it is subjective. For example you might read my analysis above and say bollocks, this bloke knows nothing about football. That’s fair enough and I have no issue with that as long as you form an argument to back up that statement. You have a reputation on these forums and the fact you keep on repeating the same patterns is what makes your anecdotal criticisms hold less and less weight as your post count increases.

Just to clarify this is not a personal attack on you. I’m just trying to give you an insight into how you are perceived and how adjusting the manner in which you post might actually be beneficial to you and the game. You can’t just assume that failings in replicating real life football are due to the coders/testers knowing nothing about the sport, rather than the possibility that coding these concepts just isn’t that easy.

Also worth noting the argument behind the longshots issue applies equally to yellow cards/red cards and penalties. You are going to have to do more than just post how you have conceded x number of penalties in y number of games as all SI will see is a statistical anomaly. Do you really think it is wrong for them to trust statistical averages from thousands of matches rather than a few user reports of having 10 penalties in 11 matches or 7 red cards in 8 matches or whatever excessive numbers are involved?

[TOPBUZZ92]

Ive stopped playing completely now, wont be buying 2011, the game is to 'hardcore' and 'complex'

for casual gamers like me....shame.......

Its not so much S.I. fault, i just liked the fun and quickness of the older games like 00/01 - 01/02 - 03/04

Well as they say.....'nothing lasts forever' .

[taylorsmen]

Ive stopped playing completely now, wont be buying 2011, the game is to 'hardcore' and 'complex'

for casual gamers like me....shame.......

Its not so much S.I. fault, i just liked the fun and quickness of the older games like 00/01 - 01/02 - 03/04

Well as they say.....'nothing lasts forever' .

I'm getting that way myself,although i am still enjoying the game (without the passion previous FM's gave me)

Especially after all the hype miles gave us about the "polished" game i kinda feel slightly let down this year,without a shadow of a doubt i won't be rushing out to get FM11 upon release date,with all due respect to SI if this was the "polished" game miles mentioned then why will it need 4 patches in total ? (10...10.1...10.1.1...10.2...then the final 10.3 transfer patch) that actually means that the game in total will require 4 patches,is that the most patches for any FM/CM ever ? if so,then how is that the most "polished" game to date ?

[djwilko6]

The patch that was released yesterday is only needed for a small minority of people having crashes. Will most players notice anything different? No. There has been a case of someone actually getting one of the problems the patch was supposed to fix after it had been sintalled tho, but I think he's a rare case.

[flashback790]

Just listened to the podcast, and I actually play the game a similar way as he says, I change my strategy according to opposition and how the game is going, I mark players if they have too much space, I use team talks to pick the players up. And do you know what my players do.....nothing, I tell my full back to mark the winger, he gives them 20 yards of space, I tell my goalie to throw it to my defenders, he hoofs it up the field.

The attacking side of the game is pretty good with the obvious exceptions(long shots, etc.), but as SI have said the defensive side is so bad that telling your players to defend a certain way is pointless as they will refuse to defend, the patch should fix it, but once again this is one of the basic things that should have been fixed before release.

I'll say it again, less time on press conferences and user interfaces and more time on the match engine.

[TOPBUZZ92]

I'm getting that way myself,although i am still enjoying the game (without the passion previous FM's gave me)

Especially after all the hype miles gave us about the "polished" game i kinda feel slightly let down this year,without a shadow of a doubt i won't be rushing out to get FM11 upon release date,with all due respect to SI if this was the "polished" game miles mentioned then why will it need 4 patches in total ? (10...10.1...10.1.1...10.2...the the final 10.3 transfer patch) that actually mean that the game in total will require 4 patches,is that the most patches for any FM/CM ever ? if so,then how is that the most "polished" game to date ?

i forgot to mention, that i think paying £25 to be a free bug tester by S.I. is really taking the pish

I thought this was going to be the 'best version ever'....if so, why so many patches??

its a broken game, broken regens included making 'long term' games pointless.

[Hammer1000]

Personally speaking that is a bug and I would call it as such. Sure certain settings may make it more likely to happen and it really isn’t rocket science to figure them out, but it is still fundamentally an issue if it happens far too consistently or in a manner that does not feel natural.

As crouchaldinho said, if you came with something more concrete you might get your opinions heard as long as you are willing to accept that it is not that easy to balance a match engine to fully replicate real life football rather than saying the match engine is a 'mess'.

Take the longshots issue as an example. SI do statistical analysis of thousands of matches to judge long shot effectiveness. If their stats suggest they are a bit off, they get adjusted as has been hinted at. Otherwise they assume users are being 'emotionally anecdotal' or are doing something fundamentally wrong which is contributing to a higher frequency aka 'it's your tactics' (for the record I hate that and do not believe every goal ever conceded in real life or in FM is explainable by tactics. If it doesn't 'feel' right to the user then it is a potential issue regardless of tactical settings)

A while back you posted some pkms saying 'look, here is crap defending and long shots' and then never bothered to respond with any kind of critical analysis. If you had posted something along these lines re the Stoke pkm

Look at Whelan's long shot goal @ 44:42. The angle he is moving at with his first touch, he shouldn't really be able to hit a longshot like that. I would argue he should not even be looking to try one from there with that body shape regardless of long shot settings. From different positions on the pitch the angle he touches and then shooting would look okay e.g. from a wider location in and around the box, but from this central position it looks very unnatural to me.

Also note in the build up from 44:15 WHU #19 closing down like a schoolboy just chasing the ball while the WHU #8 simultaneously drops back to his nominal position continuously when he should be holding to deny the pass to the Stoke #15 instead of bobbing back and forth. Closing Down/Marking settings may play a role in both of these but in my opinion it does not look natural.

83:31 Again Whelan with an unnatural looking longshot goal. The midfielder is pressing him away from goal. He should not be able to just turn and shoot. To me it looks unnatural that (a) he chooses to do so and (b) he can generate the power from that range from more or less a standing point, rather than requiring momentum such as dribbling forward or coming on to a pass.

If you then added more examples of a similar ilk that you might observe in your general playing you have a reasonable bug report that might actually get looked at (but not necessarily agreed with as being an issue). You might say it's not your job which is fair enough, but is it really that hard to just note down the time and save a pkm? Surely the time it takes to do this is no different to the time it takes to write the posts you do criticising the match engine?

As a side note those two goals are a perfect example of why all the tactical spouting gets bloody annoying. People post standardised responses like robots without any knowledge of what actually happens in the match engine yet for both of the longshot goals in this pkm the West Ham tactics had enough players in position/pressing to deal with the situation. It had nothing to do with the standard responses on here re longshots and tactical settings such as creating room between defence and midfield nor the fact he should play with a DM (which I also hate as it is far from a necessity in real life). The manner in which the player struck them looked off, and if you consistently concede goals like this then frustration is an understandable response.

But Hammer1000 you have to realise it is subjective. For example you might read my analysis above and say bollocks, this bloke knows nothing about football. That’s fair enough and I have no issue with that as long as you form an argument to back up that statement. You have a reputation on these forums and the fact you keep on repeating the same patterns is what makes your anecdotal criticisms hold less and less weight as your post count increases.

Just to clarify this is not a personal attack on you. I’m just trying to give you an insight into how you are perceived and how adjusting the manner in which you post might actually be beneficial to you and the game. You can’t just assume that failings in replicating real life football are due to the coders/testers knowing nothing about the sport, rather than the possibility that coding these concepts just isn’t that easy.

Also worth noting the argument behind the longshots issue applies equally to yellow cards/red cards and penalties. You are going to have to do more than just post how you have conceded x number of penalties in y number of games as all SI will see is a statistical anomaly. Do you really think it is wrong for them to trust statistical averages from thousands of matches rather than a few user reports of having 10 penalties in 11 matches or 7 red cards in 8 matches or whatever excessive numbers are involved?

Good post mate, i completely understand where you are coming from.

All i can really say in my defence(and its quite lame) is that i'm sick of trying, laughable i know, but over the years i have attempted to offer up as much evidence as possible. I would then get the usual reply of its your tactics/the way you play, but these same things were happening when i tried to play the game in the correct manner(and still does) but even then the reply would be, well you should obviously have done this or that and in the end its always been a waste of time.

Nowadays i only continue to complain so that personally i can at least feel i have got it off my chest, plenty of others are complaining about the same things so i am far from alone and maybe just maybe somebody else will be taken seriously.

In the last two or three releases(at least) i have not once got back into a game or outsmarted the AI to nick a draw or a win, simply because i do not understand the fundamentals of the game to manage such a feat? yet the AI does it over and over again and this is why i feel that the AI is privileged to much more info than i am as to what works and what does'nt, plus the added bonus of knowing what to do with it whilst i am sat like a plonker thinking here we go again.

[taylorsmen]

i forgot to mention, that i think paying £25 to be a free bug tester by S.I. is really taking the pish

I thought this was going to be the 'best version ever'....if so, why so many patches??

its a broken game, broken regens included making 'long term' games pointless.

That's actually the question know one has asked so far.

"why so many patches" for a "polished" game.Is there anyway anyone can answer to that from SI ? because surely if this was the most (i won't say that P word again) game ever shouldn't it require the least ammount of patches in FM/CM history ?

[Hammer1000]

but as SI have said the defensive side is so bad that telling your players to defend a certain way is pointless as they will refuse to defend, the patch should fix it, but once again this is one of the basic things that should have been fixed before release.

Sorry if i misunderstood, but are you saying that SI actually said the above about the defending?

Cheers

[flashback790]

TopBuzz mate, the game isn't broken, it just needs alot of therapy and careers guidence, I do agree with you about all the hype that this would be the best version ever and polished and all that jazz. If's thats true. as you said, why 4 patches? and why is FM07 better? Because it had less stuipid features on it, thats why.

I do understand that the game has to evole and change, but it seems the game has become a management game where even the likes of Sir Alex would struggle, I want the AI to challenge me every step of the way, but at the moment its like climbing Everest, I will fight till the end but Everest is gonna beat me.

[flashback790]

Sorry if i misunderstood, but are you saying that SI actually said the above about the defending?

Cheers

No, SI have understated and said that the defending side needs 'tweaking'. I just paraphrased with what they actually meant to say.

They are not really allowed to say 'we made a pigs ear out of the defending this year, sorry'

[Hammer1000]

No, SI have understated and said that the defending side needs 'tweaking'. I just paraphrased with what they actually meant to say.

They are not really allowed to say 'we made a pigs ear out of the defending this year, sorry'

Thought as much, cheers.

[Sussex Hammer]

I just looked at the back of the box. "the improvements the fans wanted....."

mmmmmm!!!!

[flashback790]

I just looked at the back of the box. "the improvements the fans wanted....."

mmmmmm!!!!

I believe SI are an english company, and the english love to moan and complain don't we, so SI have improved it so much that we can moan and complain even more, what could be more english?

[Elmo]

I believe SI are an english company, and the english love to moan and complain don't we, so SI have improved it so much that we can moan and complain even more, what could be more english?

An asian based call centre to address problems.

[Peachy Bum]

For what it's worth - skipping a year isn't an option. SI employees have to feed their children...

My recommendation for this thread would be to try and keep suggestions to gameplay fixes specifically. I'm all open to suggestions for how to improve the business but they're difficult to guess at from an external perspective, based on my experience of reading them.

Thanks for your efforts in keeping it constructive though - much more useful.

I want SI to 'skip' a year on new features!!! Not the game.

At this point in time giving the option of FM2011 having no new feature and SI concentrating all their time on purely bug fixes and ME improvements OR what we're getting now(new buggy features, old bugs coming back and an 'improved' ME that's pony until the third patch) i know which i'd choose!

I this point in time i won't buy FM2011 if its the later as i'm in the same position having wasted my money(i'm sure all you care about is that i spent it in the first place) and resorting to playing Xbox until a patch comes out with the fixes that are needed. If it was the former i'd be straight down the shop on release and be happy to pay full wack for FM2011!

[Pawel_lfc]

Yeah its pretty disappointing to see that every Football Manager release needing at least two patches before the game is worth playing. This usually means the game is not really up to scratch until two months after the games official release.

Sports Interactive are literally just selling a beta of the game.

To me they could get away with this once, twice maybe even three times. But this happens every release.

[starry]

Start focusing on fixing the most important things like the match engine, bizarre results, fans confidence issues that are present for many version already. And stop adding things we didnt exactly ask for, for example the news subscription. In the end we have even more problems.

[mlawrence00]

For the record, I am NOT unhappy with FM2010. Yes it is a pain to wait for patches, but, this is the case every year. This year SI have tried to be clearer with their patching strategy.

I guess it boils down to everyone knew what they were buying when they preordered. If you are not happy to wait for patches, or to play a game that is 'a little buggy'... Then wait until January to buy the game.

Simples.

[Ezequiel_Lavezzi]

Not many posts I see.

This thread isn't very constructive is it?

His thread is constructive. I think you are a tad confused.

[Rich2086]

i hope si will start making games for the love of making them again like they did in the past and not make games for the money

[Saha's Crocked Knee]

How long have you played FM/CM: 10 years

Your issue (e.g. patches, unplayable game) the game is far too gd year on year 09 was my fav and now its 10. SI are too awsome

What you would recommened be done Absolutly nothing keep feeding my addiction to the greatest game ever!!