Player Values Theory - doing away with them

So, I'm wondering what bearing FM player values have on realism in the game.

In reality of course, there are no values on players unless they are transfer listed and even then it's subject to offers, negotiation and enquiries. Equally players not for sale all have a value at which point they might be sold on the basis of being too good to refuse.

I think FM player values should be scrapped in favour of 'estimated' values acquired through scouting, and estimated values provided by your assistant manager.

You see, all I hear about is how player X was bought for X but I couldn't buy Player Y for Z. We all want mnore than the asking price for our players, but all complain when the PC also wants twice the value of it's players.

Our own teams players shouldn't have an outright fixed value. The board, coaches, and assistant should be able to advise on a 'rough' value with any asking price either advertised or enquired after provided on the basis of that. You may want to try and sell for more or less dependant on circumstance.

Equally, when trying to sign a player his price shouldn't be there like a tattoo on his forehead. It should be fed back from scouts not unlike they do already in scout reports.

Example, player X is 'priced' at £2.4m but we may be able to acquire his services for around £6.5m. This in itself is quite realistic since we ourselves are loathe to sell decent youngsters or established players at their peak for the meaningless value listed on profile.

Replacing Ron Vlaar at Feyenoord might cost at least £5m so selling him for his 'value' of circa £3.2 is not gonna happen. I tend to place a £7.5m asking price on his head and usually find the likes of Ajax and a couple of random Bundesliga clubs having a punt. That way if he is asked after the expectation is technically there although I'd love to know how FM see's this. The downside is that FM still see's the £3.2m and is loathe to offer my asking price.

When we want to sign a player we should scout and enquire as per real life. Equally when a club wants to buy one of our players they too should scout and enquire, we should be able to see who's scouting our players, and they should make an enquiry or an offer accordingly.

The player values themselves based on neither human nor AI wilfully selling for the listed price are effectively meaningless and detract from the overall game. Scout and Assistant reports - for prospective players as well as your own respectively - should be the medium through which initial asking prices are garnered and from there enquiries as per real life.

It would certainly prevent a lot of percieved issues with the transfer system many of which revolve around sulking cos 'X' is more expensive than his meaningless asking price, whilst throwing teddy from pram because noone will pay inflated price for player 'Y'.

The players value to you is a more measured calculation. Your assistant or scout provides a value based on a hidden figure. Your enquiry reveals what the club thinks. The chairman involvement plays a part too as if the club bids significantly high he may wish to discuss too.

Discuss.

Not a bad idea. I prefer to look at the scout/assman's scouting report on the player, which says how much a player is "probably" going to cost me to buy and his wages. This presentation of an "estimate" makes more sense than a figure presented as an absolute price.

Exactly. The price serves as nothing more than an unrealistic antagonist whether buying or selling and remains the least realistic aspect of a superb game.

I appreciate the game still needs a reference point, but it'll be a guideline given by your assistant manager, and/or possibly chairman and will make buying players much more interesting and a little harder than the merry go round in place now.

Under the current system it's simply far too easy to go out and buy a multitude of players yet in reality several clubs had to sell in order to buy this year.

Liverpool could only get Barry if Alonso went. Both great players, but the board were not going to allow Lucas, Mascherano, Barry Alonso, and Gerrard for the sake of 2 midfield berths, and were not going to spend without some income. This too is not reflected at present in the game, we can sign as many players as we wish.

I see what you are saying, but my thinking is a bit different when it comes to how I perceive the fixed 'value' amount (which does actually fluctuate over time).

The way that I perceive that fixed 'value' is like an amount that roughly represents the 'cost' of having that player on my team. This would include all expences concerning that player (i.e. wages, cost of training, feeding, hotel accomodation etc) for the period that their contract lasts with my team.

Therefore if someone came in and wanted to buy that player then the amount that I'm going to ask for him will, besides this fixed 'value', include some extra expences that I feel are necessary to be considered.

These expenses can be broken down as following (for example, and not exclusively - ok?):

- the fixed 'value' of the player that is leaving my club (obviously because I'll most probably need to replace him with someone and the new player would roughly 'cost' me as much, during a similar contract, to keep him well maintained)

- the added cost in wasting time and effort to seek a replacement (when I could be spending it more productively with the rest of my team)

- the added cost of losing part of my team's cohesion as the player would need some time to gel and adjust with his new colleagues, new tactical ideas and new environment (God knows it always rains here ), and

- the added cost of worrying on how he'll cope with the fan's, the board's and even my own expectations of him.

I'm sure you can add some more costs there!

All I'm saying really is that the fixed 'value' on a player's profile can be considered as a good starting point in negotiating a transfer fee when an unexpected bid comes in and I'd rather do the evaluation concerning the above 'added costs' mentioned than having someone give it to me (thus I wouldn't want to see it removed). Assistants can't always be trusted with valued judgements and I like to have the final say anyway!

Ha! I like the idea of polling forum members about what they think on this issue. I'm laughing because of the way the answers are phrased - about as biased as you can possibly be. Just laughing, no problems though. People will get it. Interesting topic for sure.

Ha! I like the idea of polling forum members about what they think on this issue. I'm laughing because of the way the answers are phrased - about as biased as you can possibly be. Just laughing, no problems though. People will get it. Interesting topic for sure.

Bias? Me?

I see what you are saying, but my thinking is a bit different when it comes to how I perceive the fixed 'value' amount (which does actually fluctuate over time).

The way that I perceive that fixed 'value' is like an amount that roughly represents the 'cost' of having that player on my team. This would include all expences concerning that player (i.e. wages, cost of training, feeding, hotel accomodation etc) for the period that their contract lasts with my team.

Therefore if someone came in and wanted to buy that player then the amount that I'm going to ask for him will, besides this fixed 'value', include some extra expences that I feel are necessary to be considered.

These expenses can be broken down as following (for example, and not exclusively - ok?):

- the fixed 'value' of the player that is leaving my club (obviously because I'll most probably need to replace him with someone and the new player would roughly 'cost' me as much, during a similar contract, to keep him well maintained)

- the added cost in wasting time and effort to seek a replacement (when I could be spending it more productively with the rest of my team)

- the added cost of losing part of my team's cohesion as the player would need some time to gel and adjust with his new colleagues, new tactical ideas and new environment (God knows it always rains here ), and

- the added cost of worrying on how he'll cope with the fan's, the board's and even my own expectations of him.

I'm sure you can add some more costs there!

All I'm saying really is that the fixed 'value' on a player's profile can be considered as a good starting point in negotiating a transfer fee when an unexpected bid comes in and I'd rather do the evaluation concerning the above 'added costs' mentioned than having someone give it to me (thus I wouldn't want to see it removed). Assistants can't always be trusted with valued judgements and I like to have the final say anyway!

I hear you. It's important for a rough price to come form somewhere since the game is likely dependent on it at some level, but as you say, the games idea of price and your idea of price are two different things. Final say is critical and with SI overhauling transfers it's a decent evolutionary step.

Equally, the chairman interference as witnessed all summer long plays a part. Since Ajax may well want £30m for him, but the chairman may decide that £23m is too good to turn down. It takes away a lot of predictability because player values are loose estimates and not a given figure of little relevance.

This is at it's most infuriating when trying to buy someone and failing to see why an example £450k youngster cannot be had for less than £2.2m. I understand why, but feel that many many FM threads related to FM08 transfer are the cries of those who do not.

Equally the discovery element would add that little bit of realism to scouting since at present I have a list of prices available to me up front.

Sounds an interesting idea.

The current values have little meaning which is why 'sell value' seems to be a key part of the scouting tools.

Frequently the scouting tools show no correlation between value and selling price.

player worth 26m sell value of about 88m....

This is at it's most infuriating when trying to buy someone and failing to see why an example £450k youngster cannot be had for less than £2.2m. I understand why, but feel that many many FM threads related to FM08 transfer are the cries of those who do not.

I'm glad you said that (what's in bold above) and I have no problem with your suggestion being implemented if people (for whatever reason) would like the option.

For my personal enjoyment though, I'd like to have the ability to choose to ignore that option and continue as I'm doing now and not have it completely eliminated in favour of your suggestion.

All I voted for or wrote about here is only about what I prefer and not as an indication that my preference should be the only way (there could be room for both). Depending of course on whether SI feel that it is important enough and have the resources to do it!

They should stay so you get an idea.

I would say that there's really only two ways, realistically, to get an estimate on a player's worth: (1) to make an inquiry with that player's team or (2) for your staff to make an estimate based on his perceived skills. In the interest of realism, perhaps this should be considered.

I would say that there's really only two ways, realistically, to get an estimate on a player's worth: (1) to make an inquiry with that player's team or (2) for your staff to make an estimate based on his perceived skills. In the interest of realism, perhaps this should be considered.

It's certainly more viable than player X being worth £8m on the game and not being for sale for anything like that.

It leaves you with 2 options:

A) Bid £8m asking price and not get player

B) Not know what the asking price is but have your scouts estimate to work with (maybe £13-£14m and make an enquiry whereupon you might get a figure (£13.25m) for which the player is likely to be sold. This to me is a lot better than the meaningless player value of £8m which has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on his his actual value and has no validity within the game whatsoever other than to serve as a flawed yardstick for the AI.

It may be that your own players have a value and you have to scout the values of others - I can see where there needs to be a base value for your own players I'm just not sure that current prices are realistic, relevant, or useful.

I'm not sure. I was always dead against this idea as I always felt it was a fundamental part of a management game but I think I could be easily swayed nowadays. I havent voted as I'm not sure.

Certainly an interesting idea, maybe this could be one of those things that is an option at the start of a game. Under 'Use Real Players' and 'Enable Attribute Masking'. Then everyone should be happy (not that they would be ! )

I'm not sure. I was always dead against this idea as I always felt it was a fundamental part of a management game but I think I could be easily swayed nowadays. I havent voted as I'm not sure.

Certainly an interesting idea, maybe this could be one of those things that is an option at the start of a game. Under 'Use Real Players' and 'Enable Attribute Masking'. Then everyone should be happy (not that they would be ! )

You're right, noone's ever happy, although a trawl through 'transfer complaints' on GQ gives you a pretty good idea that current valuations are meaningless and the cause too much upset. Don't get me wrong, many of these people are whiners who are just upset they couldn't get Modric for anywhere his £7m tag, or couldn't buy Ronaldo despite bidding 3 times his value, but if Ronaldo's asking price is not £30m the game valuation should not be £30m either.

In real life, players have asking prices, they don't have listed valuations.

Well, I know - I'm one who has complained about the transfer system.

I do disagree with your last post if you're getting at what I think you're getting at. I do not for one minute think that values should be gotten rid of to cover up failing with the transfer system. I'd be highly dissapointed if SI did that. The problems with the transfer system would still be there whether we knew their value or not. I do think it would make a much more interesting game having no idea though

Well, I know - I'm one who has complained about the transfer system.

I do disagree with your last post if you're getting at what I think you're getting at. I do not for one minute think that values should be gotten rid of to cover up failing with the transfer system. I'd be highly dissapointed if SI did that. The problems with the transfer system would still be there whether we knew their value or not. I do think it would make a much more interesting game having no idea though

Oh never that. I don't think having values is realistic period, but the existing values undermine the transfer system. SI have advised that this aspect of the game has been overhauled for '09, but I firmly believe that the old complaints will still be there in relation to the transfer system as valuations will with all likelihood still be utterly meaningless.

There'll be a horde of woodwork-borne Man City fans who'll suddnenly find that a £34m Ronaldo cannae be bought for £34m and the threads'll be be alight in days.

In my opinion, the "player value" should be in the game, but it should be more of a rough guide to what a club wants for the player. If the player is catergorically unavailable to transfer, (à la Cristiano Ronaldo this summer) then he wont have a fee assigned to him.

As it is now, it is a bit of a mick take when someone is valued at €20million and you cant get them for less than €65million unless he is unsettled and transfer listed by request. Look at Ronaldinho's move this summer, he moved to Milan for €21million, yet in FM08 he started off with a valure of around €30million and you could never get Barcelona to agree a fee, not even if offered €90million for a laugh.

Of course the "player value" shouldn't be the exact figure that a club wants for the player, as that would take away transfer negotiations, which is a big part of the game. But as said above, it should serve as a rough guide. A more accurate figure could be assatained by scouts who when they have scouted said player, come back to you with said figure, although still not an exact figure so negotiaitions have to be conducted.

If it is in the case mentioned above with Cristiano Ronaldo, (no fee assigned as he catergorically is not for sale), then of course you can lodge a bid for him, and the selling club may well enter negotiatons if they feel your bid is close to the mark they deem "Too good to refuse". If they are stubborn like Sir Alex Ferguson and Manchester United, then they will still rebuff your €100million bid.

Hope I have made some sense here!

In my opinion, the "player value" should be in the game, but it should be more of a rough guide to what a club wants for the player. If the player is catergorically unavailable to transfer, (à la Cristiano Ronaldo this summer) then he wont have a fee assigned to him.

As it is now, it is a bit of a mick take when someone is valued at €20million and you cant get them for less than €65million unless he is unsettled and transfer listed by request. Look at Ronaldinho's move this summer, he moved to Milan for €21million, yet in FM08 he started off with a valure of around €30million and you could never get Barcelona to agree a fee, not even if offered €90million for a laugh.

Of course the "player value" shouldn't be the exact figure that a club wants for the player, as that would take away transfer negotiations, which is a big part of the game. But as said above, it should serve as a rough guide. A more accurate figure could be assatained by scouts who when they have scouted said player, come back to you with said figure, although still not an exact figure so negotiaitions have to be conducted.

If it is in the case mentioned above with Cristiano Ronaldo, (no fee assigned as he catergorically is not for sale), then of course you can lodge a bid for him, and the selling club may well enter negotiatons if they feel your bid is close to the mark they deem "Too good to refuse". If they are stubborn like Sir Alex Ferguson and Manchester United, then they will still rebuff your €100million bid.

Hope I have made some sense here!

Actually, the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that this is already in the game.

If the player has been scouted then on the scouts shortlist you can see the scout's estimate of how much you may need to bid to get a player. You actually see two values, something like between so and so, but if your scout thinks that the other team will not sell the player for any amount you offer then there are no values at all. Isn't it also on the player's profile, under the scout report tab?

Also there are cases where you can get players for less than their value, usually the ones placed on the transfer list.

So really, I can't see what the issue is!

I think tomtuck was talking about replacing the value figure for a roundabout sale price.

Actually, the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that this is already in the game.

If the player has been scouted then on the scouts shortlist you can see the scout's estimate of how much you may need to bid to get a player. You actually see two values, something like between so and so, but if your scout thinks that the other team will not sell the player for any amount you offer then there are no values at all. Isn't it also on the player's profile, under the scout report tab?

Also there are cases where you can get players for less than their value, usually the ones placed on the transfer list.

So really, I can't see what the issue is!

Yes, the scouts do give you a rough idea, which negates the need for meaningless players values as already stated. The scout reports are the only realistic aspect of the current player value system.

What good is a player value of £8m if scouting and enquiries tell me he's worth £14?

Nothing, it's misleading, and players don't have price tags in real life hence the issue.

I think tomtuck was talking about replacing the value figure for a roundabout sale price.

Spot on! Im just not the best at explaining things!

I think tomtuck was talking about replacing the value figure for a roundabout sale price.

Yes, which is better, and I'm saying that that 'roundabout sale price' should only be ascertained by scouting, asking, or possibly even as part of media rumours.

There could be any number of ways to ascertain a rough price for a player, and getting a media leak would be a part of player interaction since you declaring an interest might create a media rumour that might indicate a likely selling fee 'in the region of', or 'not less than'.

It might make player interaction a little more useful too, since currently it's next to useless.

The current player value is meaningless but is a useful way of sorting the players within the search player function, for this reason it should remain. I also wouldn't want this value to truly reflect the sale price of the player as this will make the game too easy and take away the point of scouting the player.

I also wouldn't want this value to truly reflect the sale price of the player as this will make the game too easy and take away the point of scouting the player.

That's my point. The current value is meaningless, we should have to scout to get a rough value thereby removing the pointless current value system and replacing with values acrrued through thorough scouting and club to club enquiries.

Man U for instance would ignore enquiries for Ronaldo as a Key Player, but might tell you they want £6m for Fletcher if asked. Your scouts might suggest that Fletcher can be had 'for around £3.9m' and from there you have an idea.

Equally if you were to 'tap up' Fletcher the media might suggest via the new rumour mill that you are showing an interest in Darren Fletcher who Utd are likely to accept £4.1m for.

Either way, more engaging and more realistic.

I agree and have been going on about this for a while. Clubs should be able to set an asking price (as they already do), scouts can offer an idea, and the media can speculate - but why bother with an arbitrary 'value'? The player doesn't have a big sticker on him.

As to the player search function - since it depends so greatly on reputation, don't you just get the most overpriced players rising to the top?

I think this is a great idea, maybe it can be an option in the game setup in the future?

I agree and have been going on about this for a while. Clubs should be able to set an asking price (as they already do), scouts can offer an idea, and the media can speculate - but why bother with an arbitrary 'value'? The player doesn't have a big sticker on him.

As to the player search function - since it depends so greatly on reputation, don't you just get the most overpriced players rising to the top?

Yes, and to be honest I'm not sure that in 8 years of FM I've ever really sorted by value, and certainly not since CM0304.

Not sure how everyone else buys players, but I go on stats, attributes, and scouting - breaking out Genie Scout or somesuch once I've flogged the game to death and am waiting for next version. Notably still playing properly this year.

I think every player in real life has an estimated value, and this is what the values on FM represent. How many times do we see the headline "£10million-rated Gareth Barry", but being valued at club level as "Villa want £18million for Barry"?

If you get the cheat programme Miniscout or FMM you can see exactly what an acceptable bid for that player would be - often 10 times their value, reflecting their club's valuation. These inflated prices are the problem, not the valuation screen. I think every manager in the game will look at a player and say "He's worth about £1million, but I'd probably have to pay £2.5 to get him," which is how I view the current format.

I voted "keep it" here, but only because the third option "Keep it, but tweak the actual transfer fees" wasn't available.

But if you went to Tesco and they wanted £0.58p for a half dozen medium eggs but the price tag said £0.32p you'd be questioning the point in the price tag, no?

Same with FM.

Sure the press speculated £10m in the case of Barry, but this is not how FM values are built, they are built as the players definitive price based on a combination of club rep, player rep, player ability and such but remain a useless aspect of the game since the price we want to see is the sale price.

Naturally, simply listing sale prices would be pointless as they, as I've said, are not there in real life. Hence Liverpool asking Villa what they wanted for Barry. It didn't stop them bidding £5m short in the hope they could get an unhappy player cheaper, but they at least had to enquire.

Maybe if there was an option, like with the attributes masked, where you could hide the value and have a value scouted, the scout would then like you said give his opinion.

I think values come from reputation, league they play in and THEN attributes(english players have higher values than players from other countries etc).

If a value is set for reputation + reputation of league and then the opnion on the value varies on the scout/coaches ability to judge the players attributes.

This of course is my opinion, i am sure there will be a lot more that goes into the value of the player.

I voted "keep it" here, but only because the third option "Keep it, but tweak the actual transfer fees" wasn't available.

WHS

The player value is only a monetary representation of current rep, hence i think it should stay - you have to figure out the players actual value anyway.

i think it's more a mistunderstanding of how the current system works.

player A is worth 5m pounds.

that doesn't mean he will be sold for that much. that just shows how much the player is 'worth'. i think it's important to know how much a player is worth.so i dont believe it needs doing away with.

I always sell a player if I get a bid of 2.5 times his value, and i'll never pay more than double a players value, so for me values are essential.

i think it's more a mistunderstanding of how the current system works.

player A is worth 5m pounds.

that doesn't mean he will be sold for that much. that just shows how much the player is 'worth'. i think it's important to know how much a player is worth.so i dont believe it needs doing away with.

Worth is surely measured in what they'll sell him for?

If Man City want Ronaldo, Utd will say he's worth over £100m and Man City will have to bid that. He doesn't have a £30m price tag from which Mr Abu Dhabi extrapolates a bid based on the strange formula listed above from Nomis07 and then submit that ill gained figure with Nermal thrown in for good measure!?

Value is not a price tag though, if I have a jumper that is worth £2 and someone wants to buy it I don't have to sell it for £2 I can set an asking price of whatever I want, depending on how much I want to keep the jumper. Value is completely different to asking price and so there should be an obvious difference in FM.

Supply and demand is also a factor and the housing market is probably the best example of that in recent years.

PS. My formula probably is strange, but I think it's more realistic than a chairman allowing me to bid £30m for a player who is valued at £7m.

Btw nice way to get the desired poll result by creating suggestive options

I'd always like to have player valuations. Whether they are "unrealistic" or not is debateable, esp. since football in general is farcically unrealistic when it comes to evaluating anything so why not just pluck a number out of the sky and call it a value?

Value is not a price tag though, if I have a jumper that is worth £2 and someone wants to buy it I don't have to sell it for £2 I can set an asking price of whatever I want, depending on how much I want to keep the jumper. Value is completely different to asking price and so there should be an obvious difference in FM.

Supply and demand is also a factor and the housing market is probably the best example of that in recent years.

PS. My formula probably is strange, but I think it's more realistic than a chairman allowing me to bid £30m for a player who is valued at £7m.

No because I don't advertise my house for £198,000 and then say I want £420,000 for it.

I know the game needs values, but at present the existing ones do not represent value, worth, or an idea of selling fee unless of course a player is listed.

Equally, it would be crap if we could all see a sale price listed in the way the current useless prices are.

We'd still have values on players, but they'd be estimates, they'd be scouted for or acquired via the media, and our bids would still be subject to some negotiation bringing both balance and realism to the game.

Simply paying 2.5 x [insert random figure] is totally unrealistic.

Btw nice way to get the desired poll result by creating suggestive options

I refer you to jokes above in relation to tongue in cheek bias.

Okay, on topic now.

First I have to say that this thread is a pretty impressive entry into these forums, Indi have seen others before...

Your idea is very appealing. You are right in many ways. Of course no player has a price tag attached to him by nature and this tag is perceived as binding by people playing the game. One of my mates actually refuses to sell players who are his highest wage earner and totally surplus to his team for 1m because FM says his worth was 1.8m.

This would probably not happen irl and in this manner the game fosters unrealistic behaviour by its users.

It would be immensely interesting to not have the values and try and see how prices are determined on the free market.

But...

1. Too many players will be overburdened with that concept. Seeing this value is a pretty good help.

2. In public perception, loose price tags are indeed fixed to all players, be it because a club actually set them or because experts made them up.

3. To figure these out it doesn't need a lot more scouting than reading a few papers or surfing the applicable websites.

This is why I don't think it would be good or realistic if the game abandoned transfer values altogether.

If these were replaced by some kind of margin, the new concept would not change a lot but mainly befuddle many users. This may be a all or nothing thing (and I would opt for all then).

And scouting to get a more accurate margin is not realistic imho.

Conclusion: There's room for compromise. Create an option in the preferences "Show player values".

Okay, on topic now.

First I have to say that this thread is a pretty impressive entry into these forums, Indi have seen others before...

Your idea is very appealing. You are right in many ways. Of course no player has a price tag attached to him by nature and this tag is perceived as binding by people playing the game. One of my mates actually refuses to sell players who are his highest wage earner and totally surplus to his team for 1m because FM says his worth was 1.8m.

This would probably not happen irl and in this manner the game fosters unrealistic behaviour by its users.

It would be immensely interesting to not have the values and try and see how prices are determined on the free market.

But...

1. Too many players will be overburdened with that concept. Seeing this value is a pretty good help.

2. In public perception, loose price tags are indeed fixed to all players, be it because a club actually set them or because experts made them up.

3. To figure these out it doesn't need a lot more scouting than reading a few papers or surfing the applicable websites.

This is why I don't think it would be good or realistic if the game abandoned transfer values altogether.

If these were replaced by some kind of margin, the new concept would not change a lot but mainly befuddle many users. This may be a all or nothing thing (and I would opt for all then).

And scouting to get a more accurate margin is not realistic imho.

Conclusion: There's room for compromise. Create an option in the preferences "Show player values".

Quite. The option would be a good option for me as I'd rather have my scouts give me an indication of actual worth and value rather than an unrelated figure slapped on the profile.

Naturally we all play differently. LLM's will love this, and the newly found Man City brigade obviously won't.

I'd imagine I shall likely resist 3D until it looks better, and equally continue to ignore large parts of the media.

It's all part of that old difficulty argument I guess. FM should never have a difficulty button, but there are parts of the game that could be "fogged" in order to allow those who enjoy a little more realism to have it.

No because I don't advertise my house for £198,000 and then say I want £420,000 for it.

That's my point exactly, player value isn't an advertisement of price it's a worldwide assessment of value.

To put it in context with my housing market suggestion, if you ignore everything other than the actual value of your house it may be £98k, then you take into account the market, interest generated etc and you put an asking price of £120k.

So the actual value of the house is £98k, but the asking price is £120k.

Value is like an RRP on a packet of crisps it may say 30p, which means theoretically that packet of crisps is valued at 30p, but the shop owner can charge as much as he likes because that value is only the RRP.

I don't have a problem with your suggestions, but I think there needs to be a very clear difference between value and asking price.

Doesn't economic theory say that there is no difference between value and price? Isn't that the very point of the market?

However, in the game I don't mind seeing a difference there as the value is an indicator of a reasonable price which is necessary for most players. If the asking then differs it gives you a good indication about whether it might still be a good deal or not.

I have plenty of things of precious little value, but that I wouldn't sell for that value, hence their price would be very different to their value.

Doesn't economic theory say that there is no difference between value and price? Isn't that the very point of the market?

Economic theory says that, but that doesn't mean I think my work tie is actually worth/valued at £12. It's value is probably about 20p, it's price is £12. A footballer is no different.

Economic theory says that, but that doesn't mean I think my work tie is actually worth/valued at £12. It's value is probably about 20p, it's price is £12. A footballer is no different.

Footballers may even have the most insane difference between price and actual worth

Value is not a price tag though, if I have a jumper that is worth £2 and someone wants to buy it I don't have to sell it for £2 I can set an asking price of whatever I want, depending on how much I want to keep the jumper. Value is completely different to asking price and so there should be an obvious difference in FM.

Supply and demand is also a factor and the housing market is probably the best example of that in recent years.

PS. My formula probably is strange, but I think it's more realistic than a chairman allowing me to bid £30m for a player who is valued at £7m.

but nobody IRL knows the "value" of a player. Can you tell me the value of Ronaldo? Drogba? Rooney? Messi? Fabregas?

but nobody IRL knows the "value" of a player. Can you tell me the value of Ronaldo? Drogba? Rooney? Messi? Fabregas?

No, but that's just being pedantic about it. My interpretation of the value of a player is that it is an estimate e.g. I think gareth Barry is worth/valued at about £10m at a stretch, but his asking price is £18m.

No, but that's just being pedantic about it. My interpretation of the value of a player is that it is an estimate e.g. I think gareth Barry is worth/valued at about £10m at a stretch, but his asking price is £18m.

Do you really want me to continue naming players which are hard to "value". Players do not have magical numbers above their heads that state their value. Therefor for the sake of the realism it shouldn't be in the game. If there are transfer speculations in media then you will know something about players value, or if you make an enquiry, your assistant could also give you a clue, you can also determine a bit of value yourself by determining reputation of the player/club/league...

Do you really want me to continue naming players which are hard to "value". Players do not have magical numbers above their heads that state their value. Therefor for the sake of the realism it shouldn't be in the game. If there are transfer speculations in media then you will know something about players value, or if you make an enquiry, your assistant could also give you a clue, you can also determine a bit of value yourself by determining reputation of the player/club/league...

Are you not kinda contradicting yourself there? You're saying the values are known because of paper talk etc, and then you're saying the values aren't known so they shouldn't be visible in the game :confused:

Do you really want me to continue naming players which are hard to "value". Players do not have magical numbers above their heads that state their value. Therefor for the sake of the realism it shouldn't be in the game. If there are transfer speculations in media then you will know something about players value, or if you make an enquiry, your assistant could also give you a clue, you can also determine a bit of value yourself by determining reputation of the player/club/league...

This is how we roll.

Are you not kinda contradicting yourself there? You're saying the values are known because of paper talk etc, and then you're saying the values aren't known so they shouldn't be visible in the game :confused:

No, he's saying that values are not displayed in real life. So aside from the fact that the current values are not true player values, we should still have to ascertain the players value via other means than simply looking him up in the game.

Two issues here, same same but different. Firstly, values are currently nothing to do with his actual value to the club which only seems to create discontent every FM release, and secondly any 'true' value should only be discovered by scouting, media punditry, and enquiring as part of the game.