Norte del Valle Cartel Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Playing as Bristol City season 4 in the Premier League we finished the season on 70pts (exactly the same as Arsenal) however going in to the last game of the season we were in 4th place scoring 2 less but conceding 3 less than Arsenal, we won our match 5-3 however Arsenal won 3-0. Now given the fact that now our goal difference is identical the league somehow decided that Arsenal would be placed above ourselves into 4th place. Here is our records: Arsenal W20 D10 L8 F78 A50 Pts70 Bristol cW22 D4 L12 F78 A50 Pts70 Bristol City 3 v 0 Arsenal Arsenal 3 v 0 Bristol City So how is it that Arsenal finished above ourselves? Surely we should have kept our place above them on the amount of games won as there is nothing in Arsenals favour to be placed above us except for A comes before B! (FM11.3) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malak Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 if goal difference is the same it goes down to alphabetical order Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everton Ninjas Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Ouch EFC!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSteven Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Are you actually stated as having finished 5th? It may be that you both have obtained 4th position but they have been placed above you due to alphabetical order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Premier League Sorting Rules: 1. Points Scored 2. Goal Difference 3. Goal Scored In previous versions I think I remember seeing a play off game when two teams were dead even at the end. That is, level on points, goal difference, goals scored... The number of wins and results between the teams have no effect here. If you are level or above them on goal scored, then its a bug. At no point is it decided on alphabetical order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katarian Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 It should state the method for settling issues like this under the rules section of the league. I can't remember how the EPL settles things in cases like this but I don't think alphabetical order should come into it, a coin toss comes in at some point. Otherwise everyone would be renaming themselves AAAAAAAAA Manchester United . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Premier League Sorting Rules:1. Points Scored 2. Goal Difference 3. Goal Scored In previous versions I think I remember seeing a play off game when two teams were dead even at the end. That is, level on points, goal difference, goals scored... The number of wins and results between the teams have no effect here. If you are level or above them on goal scored, then its a bug. At no point is it decided on alphabetical order. Maybe the game does? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Teams are ranked by total points, then goal difference, and then goals scored. At the end of each season, the club with the most points is crowned champion. If points are equal, the goal difference and then goals scored determine the winner. If still equal, teams are deemed to occupy the same position. If there is a tie for the championship, for relegation, or for qualification to other competitions, a play-off match at a neutral venue decides rank. Sounds like if the league place held a European qualification spot then a playoff match should have taken place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I don't think that there is a real life rule for this scenario, a decided based on games won (you go 4th) or games lost (Arsenal go 4th) would be the logical option but in the absence of a clear rule from the Premier League/FA (one thing the FA is crap at is planning for all eventualities Liverpool/Everton in 2006, Cardiff in 2008) alphabetical order is the only way FM can cope with this situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 He should post an image of the table. Either that or a playoff has since been scheduled as he hasn't told us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Have you continued in the game yet? Perhaps the playoff match just hasn't been scheduled yet. It seems very odd that SI would remove this from the game, when it was previously in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 You should have actually had to play a playoff game at a venue this is how it's decided but only if for the title, relegation or Euro qualification, otherwise teams share position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicmastermind124 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 The game files suggest a playoff is played in such a scenario, so this must be a bug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm assuming that 4th place in the Premier League would be the final CL spot in his game, but could it be that an English club is yet to play the CL final, making the game think that 4th place is not a CL spot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'd put a large bet on him either having not hit enter and as such not seen the playoff game yet, or he did and is too embarrassed to post. Not sure why he would be, but you never know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I though he said that Arsenal got 4th spot and he got 5th? Or was it he got 4th and they got 3rd? It actually goes 21. The position of Clubs in the table shall be determined by the number of points scored in that Season, the Club having scored the highest number of points being at the top of the table and the Club having scored the lowest number of points being at the bottom. 22. If any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points their position in the table shall be determined on goal difference, that is to say, the difference between the total number of goals scored by and against a Club in League Matches in that Season, and the higher or highest placed Club shall be the Club with the higher or highest goal difference. 23. If any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points and have the same goal difference the higher or highest placed Club shall be the Club having scored the most goals in League Matches in that Season. 24. Subject to Rule B.31, if any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points, have the same goal difference and have scored the same number of goals in League Matches in that Season they shall be deemed to occupy the same position in the table. See page 97 of the Premier League Handbook (page number 80) Right click and save the file if you don't want it to open in your browser. (Open PDF) I'm sure that if they were equal on all levels and a Cup place was up for grabs they would have to play a playoff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm sure that if they were equal on all levels and a Cup place was up for grabs they would have to play a playoff The playoff is mentioned on the next page of that handbook: Play-offs31. If at the end of the Season either the League Champions or the Clubs to be relegated or the question of qualification for other competitions cannot be determined because 2 or more Clubs are equal on points, goal difference and goals scored, the Clubs concerned shall play off one or more deciding League Matches on neutral grounds, the format, timing and venue of which shall be determined by the Board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy! Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Come to think of it, I do remember that the playoff I remembered was played at Old Trafford and Man U was not involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Thanks ......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norte del Valle Cartel Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Okay so after checking the messages in my inbox there sat a message stating that we have been awarded £12.8m for our finishing place in the league (which is for 5th place) along with another message informing us that we have qualified for the Euro Cup. I pressed continue and now it has sent my players on Holiday with no play-off scheduled! I'm sorry but this is very unfair, and as proven above is definately not the way it's supposed to be dealt with. I have taken a screenshot and will post as soon as my internet connection is stable enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenzar Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Just confirm for us - England still have 4 CL slots, and the CL was not won by an English team not finishing in the top 4? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norte del Valle Cartel Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Yes England had 4 CL slots and the CL was won by Lyon and not an English club. Screen shot to follow any minute now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 You need to post about this in the bugs forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norte del Valle Cartel Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/cheatarsenal.jpg/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafuge Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I wonder if the game has not triggered the playoff match because both clubs qualified for Europe, not taking into account the different competitions? Either way, get it reported in the bugs forum. It may be from an older version, but this is a fairly unique situation that can't happen too often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norte del Valle Cartel Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 What really annoyed me was the fact we only needed 4pts from our last 2 games if Arsenal were to win there final two matches. First up was Birmingham, we were coasting it 2-0 only to lose 3-2 to a 90 min winner, meanwhile Arsenal were 2-1 down only to come back to win 3-2 with an 89 min equaliser and a 92+4 min winner from Bendtner. Something just smells of foul play given the fact that in Arsenals last match they won 3-0 scoring in the 83rd and 90min after we had got our 5th goal in the 80min. It was like we were destined to not qualify given the way the results went and the timing of the goals and then to be cheated out of the dead heat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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