Is FM getting little bit predictable for a veteran player?

DISCLAIMER: The following post is very much subjective, maybe even a little bit of a rant. I just felt like having to post my feelings, it's been my most loved series of games after all. Don't expect anything too constructive. You've all seen this post before (played for long, now bored, need something -type). You've been warned

Yeah. I've been playing this game for well over a decade, soon 15 years actually. I've seen all the big transitions (CM2->3->4) and kept playing for years and years. Lately, though, it seems I've finally hit the point, where I'm starting to get a little bit bored of the series. It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but for the last few years the changes have been mostly superficial, the underlying mechanics haven't evolved all that much. The match engine and user interface has improved alot, but things like player interaction and f.e. the attributes that affect player development remain largely the same. FM11 brought little tweaks to training here and there, but really, it was mostly minor tweaks and an updated interface to the old system. At least that's the impression I got.

The last couple of versions have honestly felt like playing the previous games with user interface upgrades and prettier match experience (both aspects have been more than welcome, though!). When I've started a new game, I'm already familiar with most of the things. I know exactly what I'm supposed to do with player development, how to handle different personalities in my team, how to spot upcoming youngsters most efficiently as possible. Basically it's become a routine for me. I don't even remember when was the last time my squad harmony dropped below 70-80% after the first season or two. Once you get the hang of building a squad, it's rather easy to keep everyone happy and get consistent results season after season. Some kind of major overhaul for player interaction would be the first thing on my wishlist.

I'm not saying that because there's something clearly wrong with the game, I'm just getting a little too experienced in the game in it's current state. I miss the save games from older versions where I made mistakes, and couldn't keep performing consistently like I'm mostly doing nowadays (mostly because of squad harmony & morales dropping, which lead to me messing up way too much with tactics). I would like to lose again and have major problems with my squad morale. Last few versions have been purely about getting the tactics right, and I don't find it as rewarding as it used to be.

I'm wondering is anyone else having similar feelings? I'm personally considering a longer break from the game, it may be just me getting burned out after all.

I think part of the trouble for me is that the DB is far more consistent, through better research, from year to year than it used to be. There are not really any surprises like there used to be with regards to players so an fm11 save could end up playing out pretty much the same as an fm10 game.

That and the fact that it seems for the last 4 versions we get the usual 'this new version is more evolution than revolution' 'we have added a lot of polish' etc. New versions can feel like data updates really.

Normal feeling you have, FM doesn't improve since many years.

Maybe you should try to change the difficulty. I improved many AI coaches and it's very hard and exciting to win.

Have you considered starting a new game, then editing it with FMRTE to make the game more challenging? Like putting the club in debt to restrict transfers/contract renewals/board requests. Just a thought to liven it up!

I agree, FM is much more polished and straightforward than it used to be. You do things the certain way over and over again and they hardly ever go wrong. There can be some random stuff going on, but mostly if you yourself don't do anything crazy, than nothing crazy ever happens.

It's pretty obvious though...

The game's dynamics haven't changed (and they nor could nor should BTW...) and the additions haven't been so dramatic to force a veteran FM'er to change his ways or to re-learn how to play.

On the other hand I disagree the database's consistency has been a factor in this "been there, done that" feeling... Actually the Negative PA provides enough variation to make things relatively fresh... Of course the Wonderkids of the Year will always turn out awesome, but in some saves they'll be slightly less stellar...

But yeah, all in all, as a long-time FM player myself I have to admit there isn't much challenge anymore... It's just a matter of enjoying the fine-tuned features, the odd addition and the GUI tweaks.

Probably the last truly meaningful and somewhat revolutionary improvement was the 3D engine, as it changed our way to watch the matches.

P.S. however FM has almost everything it needs to have... it's just a matter of perfecting the shaky areas rather than adding more stuff just to have a something new (half-working and not-so-important) to advertise

to be honest, FM isn't and hasn't been for many years, something that i play with focus. its something that i dip in and out of throughout the evening. its always running ( so my addictiveness rating is through the roof!! hehe ) and i play a few games while im watching tv, movie, doing a bit of overtime, cooking....etc etc

after buying each years game, i get stuck in with enthusiasm but it does wilt throughout the year but year on year, i am excited for the new game apart from possibly this year. i played the demo and thought it was TOO in depth. i didnt like the addition of agents etc and felt there was 'too much talking' with players, agents, staff etc. i just want to buy and play, buy and play. but i eventually bought it and then loved it again.

to be honest, i cant see me ever not buying the game. my girlfriend knows that i have a short attention span and therefore i like clicking away while we are watching a movie or tv.

DISCLAIMER: The following post is very much subjective, maybe even a little bit of a rant. I just felt like having to post my feelings, it's been my most loved series of games after all. Don't expect anything too constructive. You've all seen this post before (played for long, now bored, need something -type). You've been warned

Yeah. I've been playing this game for well over a decade, soon 15 years actually. I've seen all the big transitions (CM2->3->4) and kept playing for years and years. Lately, though, it seems I've finally hit the point, where I'm starting to get a little bit bored of the series. It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but for the last few years the changes have been mostly superficial, the underlying mechanics haven't evolved all that much. The match engine and user interface has improved alot, but things like player interaction and f.e. the attributes that affect player development remain largely the same. FM11 brought little tweaks to training here and there, but really, it was mostly minor tweaks and an updated interface to the old system. At least that's the impression I got.

The last couple of versions have honestly felt like playing the previous games with user interface upgrades and prettier match experience (both aspects have been more than welcome, though!). When I've started a new game, I'm already familiar with most of the things. I know exactly what I'm supposed to do with player development, how to handle different personalities in my team, how to spot upcoming youngsters most efficiently as possible. Basically it's become a routine for me. I don't even remember when was the last time my squad harmony dropped below 70-80% after the first season or two. Once you get the hang of building a squad, it's rather easy to keep everyone happy and get consistent results season after season. Some kind of major overhaul for player interaction would be the first thing on my wishlist.

I'm not saying that because there's something clearly wrong with the game, I'm just getting a little too experienced in the game in it's current state. I miss the save games from older versions where I made mistakes, and couldn't keep performing consistently like I'm mostly doing nowadays (mostly because of squad harmony & morales dropping, which lead to me messing up way too much with tactics). I would like to lose again and have major problems with my squad morale. Last few versions have been purely about getting the tactics right, and I don't find it as rewarding as it used to be.

I'm wondering is anyone else having similar feelings? I'm personally considering a longer break from the game, it may be just me getting burned out after all.

Agree 100% iv been playing since CM3 so over 10 years and i feel exactly the same. Iv kinda put it down to time and funds going into trying to make a success out of FMLive Iv already written FM12 off and im looking to FM13 to see a major overhaul.

For me the last couple of editions have felt nothing more than add-ons with a few tweaks and a database update. Dont get me wrong SI have set very high standards over the years but the time has now come for a big overhaul id hope FM13 will bring that, because the game has become to predictable.

ledi, I do have similar feelings to you on this particular subject.

However my only counter to your comments are that I go through "phases" of gameplay. It used to be a rotation from Simulation, to RPG, to FPS games...now, as I'm older, wiser, and have more responsibility (and not least, cash!), it seems my rotation is simply FM, or no FM. Currently I'm back into it. I'm looking forward to FM2012, but as I seem to be saying often on these threads, SI/Sega need to be careful.

Gamers are an odd bunch...we crave things we sometimes don't actually realise will result in a dilution of our overall enjoyment and longevity of the gameplay experience. Football Manager is one such example of late I believe. It's a victim of it;'s own success in that we have craved so many tweaks and changes to make it "perfect" that we are at the point now where there is a limit to what can be done.

Partly why I might choose to receive FM2012 as a gift rather than purchase it myself....I don't understand how publishers can be putting pressure on development houses to produce annual iterations, when there might, quite simply, be no large improvement necessary!

Take over random clubs, don't buy the established players, holiday into the future and take over a club in 10 years time.

"I'm not trying to tell you how to live, I'm just recommending you use your options" [/bill Hicks]

Take over random clubs, don't buy the established players, holiday into the future and take over a club in 10 years time.

"I'm not trying to tell you how to live, I'm just recommending you use your options" [/bill Hicks]

Holiday ftw

go to like 2036 and u will have some fun with completley new database and team reps

tbh tho i normally just play thru starting at some random team eg Utrecht, Darlington, Empoli etc then see where i can take my career by accepting better jobs when they come up, not so much hopping club from club but just improving myself when i feel it is the right time or am sacked

Currently in 2039 on my main save

Still, as "new" and interesting as the "unknown future" scenario is, the game is still what it is in 2011 with well-known players...

It might take a bit longer to recognize who's good and who's not, but the in-game dynamics will still be the same and it won't be long before a seasoned FM'er gets bored again... Maybe not necessarily bored, but less keen to keep on playing.

It's not a matter of finding a new challenge, because all the challenges you can find can be won in the same way you've won multiple Trebles with United or back-to-back promotions with Exeter

There isn't enough diversity to keep the game interesting and fresh to those who can probably win everything within two seasons thanks to their pre-existing knowledge of the game...

If anything holidaying into the future makes things worse for me! The reason being I don't see the little gems flit between clubs before getting their big chance...I just arrive on the scene in 2050 for example with a whole boatload of new names, and ZERO emotional attachment to the characters at all. It's like reading the last few pages of a book and expecting to be fulfilled.

ledi, I do have similar feelings to you on this particular subject.

However my only counter to your comments are that I go through "phases" of gameplay. It used to be a rotation from Simulation, to RPG, to FPS games...now, as I'm older, wiser, and have more responsibility (and not least, cash!), it seems my rotation is simply FM, or no FM. Currently I'm back into it. I'm looking forward to FM2012, but as I seem to be saying often on these threads, SI/Sega need to be careful.

Gamers are an odd bunch...we crave things we sometimes don't actually realise will result in a dilution of our overall enjoyment and longevity of the gameplay experience. Football Manager is one such example of late I believe. It's a victim of it;'s own success in that we have craved so many tweaks and changes to make it "perfect" that we are at the point now where there is a limit to what can be done.

Partly why I might choose to receive FM2012 as a gift rather than purchase it myself....I don't understand how publishers can be putting pressure on development houses to produce annual iterations, when there might, quite simply, be no large improvement necessary!

agree on the whole with this...

I can't think of a PC game which has been such a consistent success over 10+ years now. there is also the argument that 'if it aint broken, dont fix it'. it would be a massive risk for SI to rewrite the game from the ground up as it clearly has a winning formula at the moment. the database is what makes FM what it is. its what made FM beat CM to pulp after the Eidos/SI split and where is CM now? im hoping that the UI changes this year will refresh the game. it will be interesting to see what is in store.

i don't believe sega is forcing anyone to bring out a new game every year but the sheer nature of the game requires it. obviously they need to keep their revenues up and we want the latest transfer patches etc.

i also go through phases of playing like Wiggz, FM or no FM, with Xbox a constant distraction but FM definitely gets a lot more of time that that!

Using FMRTE to make all the AI clubs better, by giving them a Sugar Daddy Foreground and making their managers world class, certainly renewed my interest in my most recent save. I holidayed to January 2015 and took control of Southampton sitting at 20th place in the Premier League. Those hours of editing is highly recommended!

I signed young Brazilian who decided he didn't like my captain - as I can only keep good players for a few seasons the captain went and the disharmony is still there to a small extent - have won every competition entered though! I don't get the morale etc side of it, I never baby players, ever, unless it's a seventeen yo's first senior game. More important to get the players playing how you want than whether they like it or not yeah?

I signed young Brazilian who decided he didn't like my captain - as I can only keep good players for a few seasons the captain went and the disharmony is still there to a small extent - have won every competition entered though! I don't get the morale etc side of it, I never baby players, ever, unless it's a seventeen yo's first senior game. More important to get the players playing how you want than whether they like it or not yeah?

If a player acts up like that he is not professional enough. Unless I can tutor him, such players are gone at the first opportunity I get, regardless of quality.

point taken Bigguth D*&^uth, will sell the little troublemaker, he has 2 years left on contract and wins player of the league from leftback (fullbacks are my favourites) so not sure if i'll sell him before or after new season. The thing is this... bugger I can't work out how to screenshot .... he has very good stats and is on a 2000/week contract

I'm wondering is anyone else having similar feelings? I'm personally considering a longer break from the game, it may be just me getting burned out after all.

After playing a great game on FM10 with a couple of my friends over the internet, I too lost the drive to play the game - the experience of playing with others was fantastic (it's the way the game should be played, although it does go slow due to my low upload bandwidth) and since then I have only played roughly 5 seasons of FM for both FM10 and FM11.

I had to do something different to keep my interest up. With FM10 came the competition editor, and so I dug into it and created a few competitions. I was frustrated that you couldn't implement some of the rules in real life to them (only the more popular rules) but soon after someone found a section in the editor that was inactive, hidden but the xml code was there to activate it again - the competition editor that SI use to create competitions, the Advanced Rules, and I started to learn how to create competitions using that.

With FM11, SI released some of the files they used to create competitions in a format that was readable (file called comps.fmf) and within that were the files for competitions in England, France, Scotland and a load of other countries. Since then I have worked with uncle_ron on his England to Level 7 & 8 file, and had a brief run of 1 season - the last game of FM I have played - a month ago. It was great!

I feel as though now I'm starting to love this game again, and I'm going to carry on the work that I have done and improve on it, and use it in a future FM game, which I think will be FM12. I've reached the point where I am ready to go back into the game, and the FM12 announcement has got me excited once again.

If you ever get the chance, play an online game with your mates in a small league (I did it in the Welsh Premier League). Sure you might get to the point where you are good but there's nothing like going into a match against your friends - there were a few cup finals and semi finals where the score was 3-3 at FT, 4-4 after ET, they were always so thrilling and the winner would have the bragging rights until next time!

Maybe we are all getting old.

Well, if you're always managing the same clubs over and over again, it'll get easier. I suggest taking over an obscure club from the beginning. Get out of UK and Ireland, and explore the rest of the FM world!!!

Don't buy the same players, holiday 20 years, there's lots of ways to make FM challenging.

Well, if you're always managing the same clubs over and over again, it'll get easier. I suggest taking over an obscure club from the beginning. Get out of UK and Ireland, and explore the rest of the FM world!!!

Don't buy the same players, holiday 20 years, there's lots of ways to make FM challenging.

I agree 100% with you my friend. However that right there is a "gamers" view. Not a CM/FM purists. We originally wanted a simulation which was more than just a game...it seems now that any changes might further dilute the "simulation" side of the experience and increase the "gameplay" - I, for one, wouldn't like to see that.