Cardiff, Swansea & Wrexham....in England?

Not sure if this is the right place to post & apologies if this thread already exists.

I was just curious as to why they are listed as English clubs? Is it because they play in the English leagues rather than the Welsh? Is there any way to change their status so it says they're Welsh teams?

It's becasue they play in English leagues. It refers back many years to when the football league was formed. Although they play in England, they are still governed by the Welsh FA meaning if they were to qualify for europe through a cup or league finish in real life, they wouldn't be able to play in europe as they represent Wales.

It's becasue they play in English leagues. It refers back many years to when the football league was formed. Although they play in England, they are still governed by the Welsh FA meaning if they were to qualify for europe through a cup or league finish in real life, they wouldn't be able to play in europe as they represent Wales.

so the welsh FA stop them from playing in europe full stop?

It's becasue they play in English leagues. It refers back many years to when the football league was formed. Although they play in England, they are still governed by the Welsh FA meaning if they were to qualify for europe through a cup or league finish in real life, they wouldn't be able to play in europe as they represent Wales.

I'm fairly sure that should they qualify for Europe they would be allowed in. I think the rule was looked at just before the 2008 FA Cup final, where UEFA confirmed there was nothing stopping the FA allowing Cardiff to play in Europe should they qualify.

It is still crazy that the Welsh FA deal with the disciplinary issues though, allowing Darren Purse to play in that cup final was madness.

I do remember there being a big thing about this subject when Cardiff reached the FA Cup Final. I can't remember the details were but Cardiff would've been clear to play in Europe though.

It's becasue they play in English leagues. It refers back many years to when the football league was formed. Although they play in England, they are still governed by the Welsh FA meaning if they were to qualify for europe through a cup or league finish in real life, they wouldn't be able to play in europe as they represent Wales.

is that definite? would the welsh fa not be able to petition fifa or the like?

When the Football League was founded it was not called the English League because it hoped to attract clubs from outside of England (Welsh, Scottish and Irish clubs entered the FA Cup in its early days). Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham - along with clubs like Aberdare Athletic, Merthyr Town and Newport County joined the League because it offered the best games and so better revenue. In later years Welsh clubs playing in the Football League could play in Europe via the Welsh Cup, but not through any English competition.

When UEFA rules changed allowing only teams who play in their own national competition to represent them in Europe, Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham had a chance to leave the Football League and enter the Welsh League. They didn't for the same reason as they originally joined the Football League - better opponents and money. So they play in the English competitions but cannot enter European competitions for Wales or for England. The same would apply to Rangers or Celtic if they joined the Football League.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=515426&cc=5739

http://www.football.co.uk/football_features/story_298.shtml

A bit more info.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=515426&cc=5739

A bit more info.

crazy stuff never knew that:thup:

crazy stuff never knew that:thup:

Just put another link in aswell.

It's one of them statto pub things that I'm rather good at! Like Sol Campbell has never been sold for a transfer fee etc etc.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=515426&cc=5739

A bit more info.

That article is dated in March, I'm pretty sure there were developments nearer to the cup final.

Here's one story

Just put another link in aswell.

It's one of them statto pub things that I'm rather good at! Like Sol Campbell has never been sold for a transfer fee etc etc.

Does that mean he's priceless?!?!

That article is dated in March, I'm pretty sure there were developments nearer to the cup final.

Here's one story

In recent years, with Cardiff on the verge of a place in the Premier league, doubts have been cast on the opportunities for Welsh clubs playing in the Football League to qualify for European competitions. The FA had previously stated that they would not nominate Cardiff for a place in Europe should they earn one on the grounds that they don't have the option. However their words were contradicted by a UEFA spokesman saying that Cardiff could play in Europe as European countries are allowed to nominate teams even if they don't play within its boundaries, UEFA president Michel Platini later pledged his support to Cardiff should the FA refuse them entry to European competition, commenting: "If England don't do anything, we will."[13]

Following Platini's statement the FA announced that they would be reviewing their stance on the situation.[14] UEFA also commented on the possibility of the club being given a wild card entry into Europe,[15] but the FA eventually backed down from their previous statement and confirmed that it would allow the club to play in Europe should they win the FA Cup final.[16] However, Cardiff lost the FA Cup final 1–0 against Portsmouth, who hadn't already won a qualification place.

Its taken from wiki so make of it what you will, but it seems they could have got into europe, only by nomination though.

so it would have been a one off because of the cup? wonder what would happen if they managed to get promoted and qualify for either european competition every year

Its taken from wiki so make of it what you will, but it seems they could have got into europe, only by nomination though.

In a statement the FA said: "The board has given full approval for Cardiff City to participate in next season's Uefa Cup as one of England's representatives, should they win this season's FA Cup."

That sounds like they would have got it.

Technically, aren't all the European entries by nomination anyway?

I remember this one coming up with the whole Liverpool/Everton and Real Madrid/Zaragoza Champions League entries.

Makes sense as the English FA believed only the Welsh FA could nominate them as they still fall under their jurisdiction despite playing in the English leagues.

This is a similar argument usually pitted against arguments for the Old Firm in England - Cardiff, Swansea, Newport County et al all worked their way up from the bottom, from the near beginning of the establishment of the English system.

so it would have been a one off because of the cup? wonder what would happen if they managed to get promoted and qualify for either european competition every year

On one hand, they would have finished in the required psosition so let them into europe, on the hand, would the FA watch whilst an Englis team misses out? Not sure to be honest.

the welsh FA is run by a bunch of idiots

the welsh FA is run by a bunch of idiots

Similar to the English one then?!

I remember when this Cardiff cup final saga came about...

One thing I remember saying at the time was something like "English teams used to play in the Welsh cup and when they won it, the Best-placed Welsh team (generally runners up) went into europe, so why should we allow Cardiff into europe when the Welsh FA refused to admit our teams."

It's a bit silly that their Football League disclipnary stuff goes through the FAW... If swansea/cardiff get promoted (or both), it will be interesting to see the Old Firm reaction -> Stuff like Welsh teams in the premier league, so why not us...

That sounds like they would have got it.

Technically, aren't all the European entries by nomination anyway?

I remember this one coming up with the whole Liverpool/Everton and Real Madrid/Zaragoza Champions League entries.

Yeah, they're all "nominated", there's no automatic qualification. The FA don't have to send the title winners if they have a better way of picking the entrants.

all those are very interesting facts

I remember when this Cardiff cup final saga came about...

One thing I remember saying at the time was something like "English teams used to play in the Welsh cup and when they won it, the Best-placed Welsh team (generally runners up) went into europe, so why should we allow Cardiff into europe when the Welsh FA refused to admit our teams."

It's a bit silly that their Football League disclipnary stuff goes through the FAW... If swansea/cardiff get promoted (or both), it will be interesting to see the Old Firm reaction -> Stuff like Welsh teams in the premier league, so why not us...

The come back should be that the Welsh teams have worked there way through the divisions.

has anybody qualified for euro/champs league with these to see what the game does?

has anybody qualified for euro/champs league with these to see what the game does?

They are set as English in the game so act like English teams ie. Qualify for Europe as an English team.

That article is dated in March, I'm pretty sure there were developments nearer to the cup final.

Here's one story

It's interesting that that news article states Cardiff wouldn't get into Europe if they lost and Portsmouth finished fifth, so it looks like the rules were changed that season and then changed back the season afterwards?

I also thought it was a UEFA rule that stopped Cardiff from getting into Europe initialy, as I'm pretty sure teams like FC Vaduz cannot qualify for Europe through the Swiss league as they are from Liechtenstein?

Vaduz of Liechtenstein qualify for Europe a fair few times through the Swiss leagues and Monaco through the French leagues. There should be no reason.

I can't remember Vaduz ever qualifying for what they did in the Swiss League. They qualify because they win the Liechtenstein FA Cup.

Monaco is different as they are under terms with French Football Federation. There are plenty of clubs that play in a different national league than their home towns national base(Berwick Rangers, who are from Berwick-upon-Tweed, England play in the Scottish Leagues. The SFA had to change their Scottish Cup Charter to allow them to carry on playing in said cup - despite them being affiliated members of the SFA).

The question about the Welsh Clubs and their right to play in Europe is the Welsh Clubs refused to become full members of the FA, instead choose to remain with the FAW.

Link re Vaduz.

http://www.uefa.com/footballeurope/news/kind=2/newsid=695023.html?cid=rssfeed&att=index

Specific rules

Vaduz's participation in the Swiss league does come with certain conditions. The Liechtenstein side will forego some income from TV and marketing deals and will pay a special fee to the Swiss Football Association to play in the top division, and they cannot be Swiss champions even if they win the league. Their only chance of competing in Europe will remain winning the Liechtenstein Cup.

Haven't played them myself, so I don't know if this is implemented in FM.

I stand corrected on Vaduz.