Does anyone manage in MLS?

I try to be a manager in MLS but frankly I quite after 2 month. I don't like their transfer rules and also other thing?

Anyone like it?

tried it once never again, why do Americans always have to be different with their stupid draft system. I never been able to master it. What was wrong with normal transfers like the rest of the world.

yeah but they draft doens't apply to Beckham or freddie L. for Beckham is salary it's to high for him to be draft.

I really want to master it but it's a pain in the but

We really need help on that MLS thing. I think fifa should tell them to change their ways it will help their football to develope better.

Not to get into specifics, but a LOT of what MLS does is based on achieving parity and competitiveness (salary cap, American style draft system). In theory if your team can win any given weekend, you're more likely to go out and support them. Filling football stadiums is not an easy thing to do in this country, and MLS is trying to avoid the mistakes made by the NASL.

As far as SI's implementation of MLS, i've always been torn between being very impressed and desiring more. It's an incredibly complicated league, and while much is done very, very well, rookie and waiver drafts have always left much to be desired. Roster limits and salary caps are a tough thing to manage.

Ultimately, i've always felt a moral obligation to support MLS as an American. And over the years, i've grown to both enjoy and understand it more and more (the quality of football is somewhere between what it could be and the stereotype of what it is). In FM, I can usually last 2 or 3 seasons in MLS before the implementation of the salary cap and the way trades are executed makes things seem a bit silly and I have to quit.

yeah but If MLS want their foot ball to be more popuar and attrack more fan they should ease up with the transfer. as for salary cap I don't think it apply to David Beckham. I love the MLS team and stuff but as a Manager no way I can deal with that. but I'll keep trying.

to be honest tey should fellow the rules like other football country.

Not to get into specifics, but a LOT of what MLS does is based on achieving parity and competitiveness (salary cap, American style draft system). In theory if your team can win any given weekend, you're more likely to go out and support them. Filling football stadiums is not an easy thing to do in this country, and MLS is trying to avoid the mistakes made by the NASL.

This is a great point. And to add to that, the draft works for some of the most successful major leagues in the world - MLB, NFL, NBA, and the NHL. Not having the draft is one things that makes the Premier league dominated by the same 4 teams over and over again. I love relegation/promotion but without a draft, the small teams have no chance. If anything, I see the Premier league going to a draft system in the future. Otherwise, no one but the huge teams have a chance (unless a billionaire buys one of the small guys and uses his own money to fund it).

As long as there is relegation and promotion there will never be a draft in the premier league. honestly, the whole concept of the draft is misguided, the worst team gets to pick first, its a reward for finishing last. quite frankly however, the number one choice hardly ever works out and the cap hits especially in the NFL make it even harder to get better. I've never managed in the MLS but have played enough Madden games to know that trading away top 5 draft choices for either young stars or more picks later is the best way to go if there is no 100 percent sure thing. that being said, for the limited time i've spent managing the mls it pales in comparison to managing the rest of the world.

I don't mind the draft put it's bringin player from other country in MLS. by side the draft doesn't work because I can't see anyother team drafting Beckham

The MLS has a DP (Designated Player) rule, under which each team gets one DP spot on their roster, where only $400k of their salary counts against the 2.2 million(ish) salary cap. Teams can trade for more DP spots, but no team can have more than 2. Since we're on the topic, I've never been able to trade for a DP roster spot in FM, can it even be done? It seems like the option is there but it's impossible to implement.

And the MLS is geared toward slow, gradual growth. The NASL did what you're suggesting in the 70's and the likes of Beckenbaur and Pele were drawing 70k plus to football matches in NYC. But we all saw how that ended (actually, most of you probably didn't see... lol... it folded by 82 or 83). The NASL was, quite simply, top heavy. Their was no solid foundation for which the flash of Pele could stand, so it collapsed. The MLS is building that foundation first.

Also, I highly doubt the MLS sees itself competing with the top 3 or 4 leagues in the world within 30 years. What I do see, however, is the MLS as a 2nd tier league (maybe on par with Dutch, Belgium, arguably France depending on who you ask) that is drawing 20-30k fans week in and week out. The MLS is like a kid in middle school (12-14 years old). Lifting weights may put on some flashy muscle, but kids that age end up breaking bones when working out too hard. The MLS is just concerned with eating right and drinking lots of milk so that one day, when it reaches maturity, it can then start lifting weights (ie disposing of or at least loosening restrictions on the draft/salary cap).

And just FYI, the MLS player's union is already threatening a work stoppage over the salary cap, so these changes may come soon.

be side if draft was really working why in the NBA team like Lakers and Buls (in the past) were dominating.

no system is perfect but if you adopt a game that have been there for so long you should fellow it's rule and no make your own one

yeah but If MLS want their foot ball to be more popuar and attrack more fan they should ease up with the transfer. as for salary cap I don't think it apply to David Beckham. I love the MLS team and stuff but as a Manager no way I can deal with that. but I'll keep trying.

to be honest tey should fellow the rules like other football country.

By being more popular you mean more popular to Americans? or to non-Americans? Because the American system works very well with NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB and their main focus is to get more Americans to watch soccer, therefore they need to use a system Americans are already familiar with. What's the point if MLS decides to adopt the European system and now rest of the world understands it but no Americans are there to fill the stadiums?

I don't mind the draft put it's bringin player from other country in MLS. by side the draft doesn't work because I can't see anyother team drafting Beckham

The draft only applies to players coming out of American Universities. Not to players that are already professional. Those players are transfered very similarly to other countries.

There is no way that the Premiership would adopt a draft system and to think that they would is completely ludicrous. Parity is over-rated. Having dominant teams makes the upsets of said teams all the more special. I detest the MLS and will be creating a better alternative for American football in the editor when the full version comes out.

The MLS has a DP (Designated Player) rule, under which each team gets one DP spot on their roster, where only $400k of their salary counts against the 2.2 million(ish) salary cap. Teams can trade for more DP spots, but no team can have more than 2. Since we're on the topic, I've never been able to trade for a DP roster spot in FM, can it even be done? It seems like the option is there but it's impossible to implement.

And the MLS is geared toward slow, gradual growth. The NASL did what you're suggesting in the 70's and the likes of Beckenbaur and Pele were drawing 70k plus to football matches in NYC. But we all saw how that ended (actually, most of you probably didn't see... lol... it folded by 82 or 83). The NASL was, quite simply, top heavy. Their was no solid foundation for which the flash of Pele could stand, so it collapsed. The MLS is building that foundation first.

Also, I highly doubt the MLS sees itself competing with the top 3 or 4 leagues in the world within 30 years. What I do see, however, is the MLS as a 2nd tier league (maybe on par with Dutch, Belgium, arguably France depending on who you ask) that is drawing 20-30k fans week in and week out. The MLS is like a kid in middle school (12-14 years old). Lifting weights may put on some flashy muscle, but kids that age end up breaking bones when working out too hard. The MLS is just concerned with eating right and drinking lots of milk so that one day, when it reaches maturity, it can then start lifting weights (ie disposing of or at least loosening restrictions on the draft/salary cap).

And just FYI, the MLS player's union is already threatening a work stoppage over the salary cap, so these changes may come soon.

For the DP you got 11 player to play on you get only 2 DP which is ridiculous. I'm mean i don't know if NFL does the DP and I think t's 15 player on the picht for one side (excuse my limited knowledge on NFL) and how many DP do you get for that?

MLS should fellow the rules like the rest of the world when it comes to football/soccer.

beside I think in the futur their will be a limit on the money price for a player to be given. I think Platini is looking into it

As long as there is relegation and promotion there will never be a draft in the premier league. honestly, the whole concept of the draft is misguided, the worst team gets to pick first, its a reward for finishing last. quite frankly however, the number one choice hardly ever works out and the cap hits especially in the NFL make it even harder to get better. I've never managed in the MLS but have played enough Madden games to know that trading away top 5 draft choices for either young stars or more picks later is the best way to go if there is no 100 percent sure thing. that being said, for the limited time i've spent managing the mls it pales in comparison to managing the rest of the world.

Teams finish last and pick first because they are inferior. It's a way of helping parity in a system. Do you see a team like Hull City ever competing with Man. United or Chelsea? As a supporter of a team like Hull City or Portsmouth, don't you want your team to win the Premier league? Without a draft, it is next to impossible. There is just too much money for the bigger teams.

In baseball, teams like the Florida Marlins can have the smallest payroll in the league and still win the World Series. Why? Because of the draft and the salary protection it gives to teams. In fact, teams that draft players have that player for at least several years at a league minimum salary. I have a feeling that the only reason this works is because of the monopoly the MLB holds over the professional baseball world. In soccer, this wouldn't work because there are too many leagues throughout the world that would take those players drafted by Premier League teams and pay them better. In this case, the MLB monopoly gives the fans more excitement (because even the smallest teams have a chance to win).

Anyway, I kind of reasoned by way out of thinking the Premier League should have a draft because even if they did, some other league would come in and steal their players. I guess the PL is destined to be a league headed by 4-5 teams forever.

By being more popular you mean more popular to Americans? or to non-Americans? Because the American system works very well with NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB and their main focus is to get more Americans to watch soccer, therefore they need to use a system Americans are already familiar with. What's the point if MLS decides to adopt the European system and now rest of the world understands it but no Americans are there to fill the stadiums?

Are you saying that american don't have brain to adapt to the rest of the world?

there are american here who play FM and they don't complaint about how the rules are other wise they would play it. i think one america here said it can't stand MLS so he always manage in europe

The draft only applies to players coming out of American Universities. Not to players that are already professional. Those players are transfered very similarly to other countries.

really? ok cuz I had a hard time to get them over caus I think if I remember there is a limite o how many foreign player you can bring in? I'm not to sure but I'll try it again this time

The draft isn't misguided if you have no structure for youth development. In England (or, really, pretty much everywhere that's NOT the U.S.), player development is handled by academies set up by teams; each team is responsible for recruiting, training, and developing their talent pool. Since clubs here don't have those structures in place, the draft is the next best option; it takes all the talent developed elsewhere and lets the teams pick.

Beckham's allowed in as a "Designated Player"; basically, he eats up $415,000 of the Galaxy's salary budget (provided to them by MLS, as all of the teams are technically owned by MLS and not the individual owners), with anything on top of that being paid to him out of the pocket of the Galaxy's owner. Because he's already established, he would never enter the draft; that's only for youth players.

The MLS system isn't really holding our youth back, either; the fact that we have no national academies, no team academies, and no uniform standard of coaching, strategy, or talent identification is holding us back far more. Our youth system (which is basically "pay to play" for the top tiers) doesn't identify talent as much as it makes money for those involved; that's a huge part of the problem.

Teams finish last and pick first because they are inferior. It's a way of helping parity in a system. Do you see a team like Hull City ever competing with Man. United or Chelsea? As a supporter of a team like Hull City or Portsmouth, don't you want your team to win the Premier league? Without a draft, it is next to impossible. There is just too much money for the bigger teams.

In baseball, teams like the Florida Marlins can have the smallest payroll in the league and still win the World Series. Why? Because of the draft and the salary protection it gives to teams. In fact, teams that draft players have that player for at least several years at a league minimum salary. I have a feeling that the only reason this works is because of the monopoly the MLB holds over the professional baseball world. In soccer, this wouldn't work because there are too many leagues throughout the world that would take those players drafted by Premier League teams and pay them better. In this case, the MLB monopoly gives the fans more excitement (because even the smallest teams have a chance to win).

Anyway, I kind of reasoned by way out of thinking the Premier League should have a draft because even if they did, some other league would come in and steal their players. I guess the PL is destined to be a league headed by 4-5 teams forever.

you forget that before the big money ppl come and buy club as their toy. the top for team made it there because of the Fan. That's the basic of football your fan put in the money and the more fan you get the more money you have (it's even true in fM)

of course now it's the opposite with Chelsea and City were you get big player to attrack fans but the bad thing about it is that their are fake fan so the day they see other team having a big player their leave their current team and go to the next one.

a true Fan stay with is team no matter what. and England has the best fan spirit of all. I was really surpised about it when I got to London

Only the future wil l tell us if this draft thing is good or not.

but i think MLS is in a hurry to be a top league and rival NBA or NFL. their should take their time there other country that are not top league (belgium) but their doing good the only problem is that it's a small country (same population as London). so they will never be a top league because of the number of fans

There is no way that the Premiership would adopt a draft system and to think that they would is completely ludicrous. Parity is over-rated. Having dominant teams makes the upsets of said teams all the more special. I detest the MLS and will be creating a better alternative for American football in the editor when the full version comes out.

You have to understand what the MLS is trying to do. I'm sure that when it comes to strictly footballing and namely attracting big name players in a computer game your system will be great. When it comes to developing a league that is 13 years old in a country with 4 wildly popular professional sports leagues that are deeply rooted in American culture, the MLS is doing a solid job in my opinion. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, not even close. The fact that professional footballers make as little as $15k (US) a year is an offense to not just the game, but quite frankly, workers and human rights. But to think that your version of an American Football league in a video game would be better if implemented in the real world than the MLS is kind of silly. And the NFL, which has a strict salary cap, has some of the greatest upsets in professional sports (just look at New England v. New York in the Super Bowl 2 years ago).

really? ok cuz I had a hard time to get them over caus I think if I remember there is a limite o how many foreign player you can bring in? I'm not to sure but I'll try it again this time

Yes... in addition to 1 DP spot and trading for up to 1 more, each team gets about 6 foreign player spots, and you can trade for something like 4 or 5 more (my numbers here may be off, but the concept is right)

And our youth development system is growing. Teams are allowed to sign 1 player from their youth academies per season. I know Red Bull New York and FC Dallas have already exercised this option, and other teams may have as well. Again we see the balance between developing top talent and parity. We have a bad habit of developing players then losing them to Mexico and Europe, but jeapordizing parity is a scary thing to flirt with in MLS. If a side that draws 9k fans to home games begins losing every game because they can't afford players (theorizing that the salary cap is disposed of and teams own their own players as opposed to the league owning them), I can promise that team would fold within 2 years.

Sorry for being so long-winded and sporatic. I'm also not an MLS fanboy, I just want to both play Devil's advocate and try to explain why MLS does what it does. Their are legit Football people and legit Business people doing the best they can for the league, and while not perfect, it's important to understand what they do.

really? ok cuz I had a hard time to get them over caus I think if I remember there is a limite o how many foreign player you can bring in? I'm not to sure but I'll try it again this time

Each team gets 8 international allotments (13 if you're Toronto FC, because Americans count as international players for them); you can trade those allotments, though.

@ GreenxxGreg

in away if you develope youth you lose cuz there is no need to invest in a younth academy because you don't get money back.

I'm not saying that the MLS system is not good (it's proven with NLF NBA) but nfl and nba started that long ago.

the issue here is that in FM may be in real life too MLS is just not attractif and dificule. like if i invest my time and scouting in a young player I want to keep on see him develop i don't some other team, to come and draft him away. in that case what's the piont you invest in youth. you just have to seat there and wait for other team to do that for you. now if all the team seat there and wait nothing will be done

@ GreenxxGreg

in away if you develope youth you lose cuz there is no need to invest in a younth academy because you don't get money back.

I'm not saying that the MLS system is not good (it's proven with NLF NBA) but nfl and nba started that long ago.

the issue here is that in FM may be in real life too MLS is just not attractif and dificule. like if i invest my time and scouting in a young player I want to keep on see him develop i don't some other team, to come and draft him away. in that case what's the piont you invest in youth. you just have to seat there and wait for other team to do that for you. now if all the team seat there and wait nothing will be done

That's not really how MLS works, though; there's tons of roster turnover each year, with only a few key players staying the same year in, year out.

I tried to because I like the idea but the quality is too poor and the league was bugged. Made me stop trying.

that's the thing a lot of people want to try it but it's just get on your nevers and stuff

Are you saying that american don't have brain to adapt to the rest of the world?

there are american here who play FM and they don't complaint about how the rules are other wise they would play it. i think one america here said it can't stand MLS so he always manage in europe

Not that they don't have a brain, but most Americans (not all) would be stubborn to adapt to the rest of the world. Yes I do agree that it is a very complicated system and it would be a lot easier if the system was changed to fit the rest of the world, but it just won't work. If you implement a relegation system in the US it won't work because fans will just not show up for games and teams will go bankrupt. You have to understand that it's a different market and different market requires different strategies.

We really need help on that MLS thing. I think fifa should tell them to change their ways it will help their football to develope better.

That's a pretty ignorant point of view, don't you think?

That's a pretty ignorant point of view, don't you think?

only to you as you said yourself it's my point of view. don't try to play smart when you got no argument to back up you say.

Not that they don't have a brain, but most Americans (not all) would be stubborn to adapt to the rest of the world. Yes I do agree that it is a very complicated system and it would be a lot easier if the system was changed to fit the rest of the world, but it just won't work. If you implement a relegation system in the US it won't work because fans will just not show up for games and teams will go bankrupt. You have to understand that it's a different market and different market requires different strategies.

I'm not talking about relagation as the MLS don't have many team. I'm talk about the draft system and transfere system. thats the only thing that bugs me

We really need help on that MLS thing. I think fifa should tell them to change their ways it will help their football to develope better.

Maybe. However with each league having it's specific problems, you need always a little bit different approach for each country. So I don't think it's a problem. In 1920, football in Europe was also different, and some countries are still developing on football field even today.. Give'em some time..

However, drafting and such things are definitely one of the reasons why not to choose MLS in Football Manager, especially now with editor and so many other leagues to play.. when I decided between Malaysia and US, I took Melacca and realized, that you can't sign any foreign players, but still I managed to promote them in 1st season.. life is soo unfair.

Maybe. However with each league having it's specific problems, you need always a little bit different approach for each country. So I don't think it's a problem. In 1920, football in Europe was also different, and some countries are still developing on football field even today.. Give'em some time..

However, drafting and such things are definitely one of the reasons why not to choose MLS in Football Manager, especially now with editor and so many other leagues to play.. when I decided between Malaysia and US, I took Melacca and realized, that you can't sign any foreign players, but still I managed to promote them in 1st season.. life is soo unfair.

yeah I know but it's frustrating because they want result but they to give you time only AI in MLS can be successful that why I was asking if anyone manage a team in MLS and have had a successful career until now no one has

yeah I know but it's frustrating because they want result but they to give you time only AI in MLS can be successful that why I was asking if anyone manage a team in MLS and have had a successful career until now no one has

I've had lots of success in MLS. Like I said before 3 seasons is about my limit there, and i've had saves where i've won 3 straight US Open Cups, 2 MLS titles, Superliga championships, etc.

With FC Dallas I was able to win the CONCACAF Champions league and qualify for the Fifa Club World Cup. Never played it though because, well as we've established, MLS gets annoying (so I took a job with Aston Villa or some similar upper-middle EPL team).

I find it incredibly easy to win in MLS. Trade worthless draft picks, foreign slots, and allocation cash for good players, then win. That's what i meant before about how poor the trading system is executed. It's too darn easy.

I'm not talking about relagation as the MLS don't have many team. I'm talk about the draft system and transfere system. thats the only thing that bugs me

Promotion and relegation would be awesome in the MLS, but with the $$$ that the teams shell out to get franchises, there's no way they are going to risk their investment getting relegated to playing matches in obscure college stadia. The player turnover is also ridiculous. They've tried to break their own rules with the Beckham rule and its backfired as nobody cares once the novelty wears off and even more so when players like Beckham have a good run of form and are looking to greener pastures.

I've had lots of success in MLS. Like I said before 3 seasons is about my limit there, and i've had saves where i've won 3 straight US Open Cups, 2 MLS titles, Superliga championships, etc.

With FC Dallas I was able to win the CONCACAF Champions league and qualify for the Fifa Club World Cup. Never played it though because, well as we've established, MLS gets annoying (so I took a job with Aston Villa or some similar upper-middle EPL team).

I find it incredibly easy to win in MLS. Trade worthless draft picks, foreign slots, and allocation cash for good players, then win. That's what i meant before about how poor the trading system is executed. It's too darn easy.

And this is why I'm making over the MLS in a Euro-style once the editor comes out. No draft, no international player restrictions, no work permits, promotion, relegation, but work within the framework of the current league's rep (12, I believe in 09).

MLS is too easy in the game...it gets boring after 3 years when you've won everything except the CWC.

I didn't read every post, so sorry if I'm repeating what's been said.

Just to make some things clear about the league irl, and get everyone back to reality...

• it's not that Americanized - when the league started, they tried to ram Americanization of soccer to us. The clock started from 90:00 down to zero, and penalty shootouts like in hockey. But now they mainly follow the rest of the world in soccer. So they're at least trying...and most teams have academies, and DC United signed the first academy player from their youth team. Teams will develop more academy players and keep signing them.
  
• but it needs some Americanization to spread the game here - We need to make fans in Canada and the US first. We are more familiar with a franchise setup with drafts, trades, and waivers. Growing the game here means that new fans need to feel comfortable with the setup of the league and it's structure. A transfer system with buying and selling players doesn't make sense here because we don't understand. And there's something called parity. If the same teams keep winning, teams lose fans, which means teams lose money. Less than half the teams in MLS have made a profit. LA Galaxy, TFC, FC Dallas (I think), and probably Seattle in a couple years. Teams will fold if the league rushes anything. This league is still developing.
  
• Promotion/Relegation will never happen because of the franchise model - owners pay a US$30 million (or is it $40 mil) to get into the league, and then need to pony up a few more (read: a lot ) millions for a soccer specific stadium. They also have regional TV contracts and national TV contracts. They have multi-million dollar contracts with sponsors. It does not sense to consider promotion/relegation because of (1) the culture, and (2) the financial implications.
  
• Salary Cap controls costs - as someone in this thread probably pointed out by now, some players only $15k a year. But many teams are still bleeding money left and right. 2 Florida teams already folded in the early years, and San Jose relocated to Houston. Soccer is not the number 1 sport here like in the Premier League (it's probably #5 behind NHL, NBA, MLB, and NFL).
  

We don't have the history yet, but MLS is taking a safe approach to avoid what happened in the NASL. They need financial footing before thinking about anything. And MLS will always be a franchise model.

We need parity. Losing games = Losing fans = Losing money = Team goes bust.

We really need help on that MLS thing. I think fifa should tell them to change their ways it will help their football to develope better.

FIFA recently told MLS that they should adopt the European Fall-Spring calendar. Most Americans who follow MLS think this would be crazy and hope it doesn't happen. There would be too little interest in MLS for it to keep going. People would rather stay at home and watch the NBA, NFL, NHL, English Premier League, Spanish La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A, etc. then stay outside in freezing cold temperatures watching MLS. That's the reality of it.

And this is why I'm making over the MLS in a Euro-style once the editor comes out. No draft, no international player restrictions, no work permits, promotion, relegation, but work within the framework of the current league's rep (12, I believe in 09).

Without a salary cap, your teams will spend themselves into bankruptcy. Where will the additional revenue come from to make up for the higher wages? Most MLS teams are already operating at a loss. MLS teams would be able to beat your Euro-style/NASL-style league in 5 years time once their bank balances run out and they have salary budgets closer to USL-1 levels.

Sweden and Norway follow the Summer calendar as well. The similarities? We're all situated in the north. Do you want to try and feel how -40 degrees Celsius weather is like for 2 hours???

I prefer this calendar anyways. There are too many sports going on in the winter months.

Another positive step for MLS is following FIFA international dates for 2010 season. I remember TFC basically couldn't play their starting XI because they were all playing internationals...we had to sign amateur players for the game, and our head scout (Tim Regan) played too. :o

FIFA recently told MLS that they should adopt the European Fall-Spring calendar. Most Americans who follow MLS think this would be crazy and hope it doesn't happen. There would be too little interest in MLS for it to keep going. People would rather stay at home and watch the NBA, NFL, NHL, English Premier League, Spanish La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A, etc. then stay outside in freezing cold temperatures watching MLS. That's the reality of it.

Without a salary cap, your teams will spend themselves into bankruptcy. Where will the additional revenue come from to make up for the higher wages? Most MLS teams are already operating at a loss. MLS teams would be able to beat your Euro-style/NASL-style league in 5 years time once their bank balances run out and they have salary budgets closer to USL-1 levels.

Garber has recently said the league is doing very well, financially, despite the recession and is looking into the pros and cons of the schedule switch. Part of that switch would include playing in roofed or indoor stadia.

Major League Soccer will never adopt the European "Football" Model because they are growing it to be a long term situation.

There is a reason that nearly 80% of all teams in Europe lose money on an annual basis and there are only a few teams that win leagues throughout Europe each year. Parity is a big thing in the American sports culture, and it's something that is working tremendously well for Major League Soccer.

Some of the guys owning clubs in America have money that could instantly turn several of them into world class teams, but then they would be making the same mistakes that the NASL made and that most of Europe is making right now.

MLS is thriving right now and has taken tremendous strides in it's short time as a professional league. Meanwhile, if you're not owned by a rich oil tycoon in Europe you are struggling incredibly.

Major League Soccer will never adopt the European "Football" Model because they are growing it to be a long term situation.

There is a reason that nearly 80% of all teams in Europe lose money on an annual basis and there are only a few teams that win leagues throughout Europe each year. Parity is a big thing in the American sports culture, and it's something that is working tremendously well for Major League Soccer.

Some of the guys owning clubs in America have money that could instantly turn several of them into world class teams, but then they would be making the same mistakes that the NASL made and that most of Europe is making right now.

MLS is thriving right now and has taken tremendous strides in it's short time as a professional league. Meanwhile, if you're not owned by a rich oil tycoon in Europe you are struggling incredibly.

Thriving? Is that why after the 2008 season, there were only 3 teams that were profitable? And one of those was the expansion team in Toronto so that can be chalked up to the novelty of having a team.

Thriving? Is that why after the 2008 season, there were only 3 teams that were profitable? And one of those was the expansion team in Toronto so that can be chalked up to the novelty of having a team.

Yes, Thriving.

As the Soccer Specific Stadiums continue to come on board you're seeing profitable teams increase year by year. For example, this season Real Salt Lake has seen a 42% increase in revenue because they are no longer "renting" a stadium from some other team. We don't even need to discuss Seattle, as they make more money and sell more tickets than most teams in Europe.

Over the next few years you're going to see brand new soccer specific stadiums in New York City, San Jose, and Houston. You're also going to see new stadiums/teams in Philadelphia, Vancouver, and Portland.

So yes, THRIVING is the word I would use.

Here is a quick write up on MLS Commish Don Garber discussing MLS finances and stability with UEFA officials.

Don Garber Goes To Europe

They can build a football specific stadium in every city in America, but it still isn't going to make football a beloved sport in this country. The attendances are terrible, the rules are ridiculous, and the quality of play is difficult to watch. Not to mention their season overlaps each of the other 4 major sports, so they can keep throwing whatever money they want at it, but its NEVER going to be a major sport in America. And NEVER is the word I would use.

Sweden and Norway follow the Summer calendar as well. The similarities? We're all situated in the north. Do you want to try and feel how -40 degrees Celsius weather is like for 2 hours???

Actually the northernmost MLS city (Seattle) is further south than Paris. Just had to point that out as a geographer.

A few points:

1) I thought a major British criticism of the United States was that they try to tell the rest of the world what to do? Anybody reading this thread can hopefully see the irony in that!

2) The current system in place in Europe works very well for Europe.

3) The current system in place in the MLS IS improving soccer/football in North America. The standard is improving, the attendances are good and the league is succeeding and growing. More people follow soccer and attend matches -- and this also translates into more North Americans watching/following overseas leagues and international soccer.

4) MLS is a smash success, it is growing "your" game around the world, why criticize it just because it's different? The draft system makes a lot of sense if you actually look at things from the pragmatic reality of the universe MLS exists in.

5) Frankly, nobody anywhere could give a toss if you like different systems from a stupid computer gaming frustration point of view!!!!

6) SI's goal for FM is to make realism king. Well, each and every year, they improve the realism in MLS considerably. It is now many times more playable than let's say 5 short years ago, and it continues to improve -- hats off!

They can build a football specific stadium in every city in America, but it still isn't going to make football a beloved sport in this country. The attendances are terrible, the rules are ridiculous, and the quality of play is difficult to watch. Not to mention their season overlaps each of the other 4 major sports, so they can keep throwing whatever money they want at it, but its NEVER going to be a major sport in America. And NEVER is the word I would use.

Thank you for regurgitating pretty much every single obligatory Eurosnob argument in one post.

Attendances aren't terrible. The MLS averaged about 16,500 people per game last year. That number will clearly increase in 2009 with the Sounders coming into the league. The numbers are about equal to the SPL and Brazil's top league, and exceed the average attendance in a number of "soccer countries."

I'm not sure which rules you think are "ridiculous" but you've already explained yourself why promotion/relegation won't happen. You can be sure that if a European Super League ever takes off, it won't have promotion/relegation in it, either. No one will mind that, of course. The draft? The league is already loosening rules with respect to academy programs, which should encourage more player development at the club level. It will take a few years to see the effect of the changes, though. In the mean time, the draft does its job: it gets young American players into the league.

The quality of play isn't great, but it depends what you're comparing it to. When you watch an MLS game you know you aren't going to see Barcelona. That's a given. However, the quality of play is improving, and as the league gets bigger and increases its reputation around the world, the level of players teams can recruit will get better. While it seems unlikely that MLS will be a top-tier league in the next 10 or 15 years, I see no reason why it can't be a legitimate second-level league.

The schedule thing is a non-issue, as far as I'm concerned. The league runs from April until October. When you're dealing with a season this long, there's obviously going to be overlap with other sports.

In FM, I can usually last 2 or 3 seasons in MLS before the implementation of the salary cap and the way trades are executed makes things seem a bit silly and I have to quit.

I hope to see you in a lot of the post-release MLS-related threads, then.

Trading has always been a problem in FM; I hope it's more intuitive this year. The cap is what it is. I kind of like it, though; it forces you to be a more 'active' manager, constantly looking for young, cheap players.

The only thing that really keeps me away from managing MLS in FM is that the expansions aren't coded in. I know that's a licensing issue, but it kind of takes away the realism when you start a game in, say, FM '09 and know you're not going to have Seattle, Philadelphia, Vancouver and Portland coming in.

As for the RL arguments ...

The landscape of American soccer is littered with leagues that went bust. The American Soccer League of the 1920s actually lured some of the better British players. But the Depression ended up killing it. The NASL of 1970s had the big shiny glamour team of New York Cosmos drawing 80,000 spectators to see Pele, Beckenbauer, Carlos Alberto. But that was all built on sand. And that league went bust because teams spent money they didn't have trying to keep up with Cosmos. It was basically Cosmos and 17 Leeds Uniteds.

MLS, for all its faults, has focused on building the foundation before starting on the bay windows. It's now established enough that it can get government financing for stadium projects, and can sprinkle a couple of baubles around the league with the DPs. The single-entity model is the template for start-up sports leagues in North America.

They've loosened up a lot of rules, allowing teams to keep much of the transfer revenue from selling players, selling shirt sponsorships, doing their own scouting, etc. And I believe you'll see more teams posting profits when Red Bull finally gets out of Giants Stadium (IIRC, it's something like $200,000-$250,000 every game just to open the doors), lessening the cash calls from the rest of the league.

Actually the northernmost MLS city (Seattle) is further south than Paris. Just had to point that out as a geographer.

I know mate, but Toronto can get very cold at times...and not to mention the occasional snowstorm now and then.

In terms of the game, trading needs to be improved. And the waiver wire to an extent as well. It's still not realistic enough for me. I was a bit disappointed MLS wasn't in the demo, but I guess I'll have to play the full game to find out the improvements.

IRL, MLS knows it can't compete with the Big Four North American Sports, but I like that they're expanding in cities that will support soccer like Portland (only other team are the NBA Trailblazers), Philly (well they have quite a few pro sport teams, but it's a great sports city), and Vancouver (NHL Canucks). I just hope they don't overexpand like the NHL to cities where they don't support the sport. 20 teams should be the max, and if they stick with the summer schedule, then keep the conferences and play 2 games vs own conference and 1 game vs other conference to get the 30 games + the playoffs.