has any one ever had their promotion to the football league rejected?

im not sure if this is possible but do you ever get rejected from entering the football league due to your ground?

It happens in real life due to rules but was not put into FM09 because it would make the game much too difficult.

Yes... but it was back on 01/02. These rules really need to be reintroduced into the game. The game is supposed to be a realistic simulation after all...

Yes... but it was back on 01/02. These rules really need to be reintroduced into the game. The game is supposed to be a realistic simulation after all...

There is a great paradox in your sentence. The GAME is supposed to be a REALISTIC SIMULATION after all.

It's a game. Yes it should be realistic, but it's still a game. And games should be fun. Realism should never stand in the way of fun. IMHO anyway. And besides, how will a game ever be a realistic representation of the so peculiar football world? It never will be, no matter how good the game is.

If you really want a realistic representation of football management, you are also going to have to introduce things as managing your players diets (what a lot of managers do), tell them wether they are allowed to go out in the weekends or not, arrange paintball-trips, tell them to buy flowers for the misses, tell Wayne Rooney not to visit whore houses anymore, andsoforth.

We have a problem whereby the game needs to try and be as realistic as possible, but it shouldn't stand in the way of it being enjoyable. Therefore, we need a common solution to both those problems. Now this might stupid, but I think the only solution is to make sure that if teams with a ground that isn't good enough are supposed to go up, they automatically upgrade it. Obviously, there'd be financial implications. So there would need to be a way of getting around that.

We have a problem whereby the game needs to try and be as realistic as possible, but it shouldn't stand in the way of it being enjoyable. Therefore, we need a common solution to both those problems. Now this might stupid, but I think the only solution is to make sure that if teams with a ground that isn't good enough are supposed to go up, they automatically upgrade it. Obviously, there'd be financial implications. So there would need to be a way of getting around that.

Then again, whilst promoting you get a big upgrade in TV-revenue dont you? Might not be enough, but it's something.

To be fair, I dont know how it is in England but there are some clubs here in Holland that are really struggling with this problem. Some clubs don't even want to promote, because they don't have the money to upgrade the stadium to match the requirements. We only have 2 professional leagues here in Holland, which means that it's impossible for the First Division (what you would call The Championship) teams to relegate. So some clubs are stuck in the First Division forever.

Wouldn't mind this be introduced, but probably add in what Mike said.

ok. I'm at farsley celtic and after 5 years they are in Championship(they were in BSN). The stadium is still 3900(500 seated) and poor facilities. Do you think is normal???

In Holland we have clubs in the Premier Division that have the same capacity Tony

There is a great paradox in your sentence. The GAME is supposed to be a REALISTIC SIMULATION after all.

It's a game. Yes it should be realistic, but it's still a game. And games should be fun. Realism should never stand in the way of fun. IMHO anyway. And besides, how will a game ever be a realistic representation of the so peculiar football world? It never will be, no matter how good the game is.

If you really want a realistic representation of football management, you are also going to have to introduce things as managing your players diets (what a lot of managers do), tell them wether they are allowed to go out in the weekends or not, arrange paintball-trips, tell them to buy flowers for the misses, tell Wayne Rooney not to visit whore houses anymore, andsoforth.

From the back of the 2009 box...

"Football Manager 2009, the best selling, most realistic and critically acclaimed..."

Most realistic... which means the league's rules should be implemented, including stadia criteria.

ok. I'm at farsley celtic and after 5 years they are in Championship(they were in BSN). The stadium is still 3900(500 seated) and poor facilities. Do you think is normal???

Yes it is. They are a small club who would never get promoted that far in real life, because they don't have the resources to support it. They wouldn't be allowed into the Championship with that ground in real life, so that's how it should be in the game too.

There's valid arguments on both sides but I'm sure that a few years back someone from SI said that this rule would not be implemented as it would detract largely from the enjoyment of the game.

In Holland we have clubs in the Premier Division that have the same capacity Tony

Ha yes, i've been playing in Holland for a number of seasons and the newly promoted Helmond have a capacity of *drum roll*........ 3,000! Although on a side note PSV recently expanded their stadium to a 45k capacity, so might give my Ajax team a bit of challenge now

There's valid arguments on both sides but I'm sure that a few years back someone from SI said that this rule would not be implemented as it would detract largely from the enjoyment of the game.

I'd have to disagree with them then. I got Annan to the SPL with a 2k stadium (6k all seated is SPL minimum) and money just poured out of the club as income was negligible. I'd rather have been held in SD1, or the club be forced to upgrade the stadium but blow the finances.

I'd like this to be reintroduced.

How about, you have the option: Upgrade or Don't Upgrade your ground. If you select the latter, your promotion is rejected. If you do upgrade your ground, you loose a stack of money. If you're already deeply in the red (e.g. insecure or very insecure or bankrupt finances) the board reject the upgrade option.

I have to say that I would be pretty annoyed if I had taken a small club from the BSS for instance, worked hard for a few years and then was denied access to the football league because of my ground...

Maybe to make things a little more realistic without destroying the enjoyment factor any teams with sub-standard stadiums should automatically enter into a ground-share arrangement with a nearby club.

This would mean that you are penalised for having a bad ground, but at least you could continue on. And maybe someday your club could upgrade the old stadium and you could move home!

i went up to the EPL with York City back in FM05 in a stadium that would have had the Health & Safety Execs tearing their hair out. Glad actually, because otherwise my monitor would have has a fistprint in its screen

On a side note, does the size of your stadium ever decrease?

If Manchester United plumit down the leagues, would their stadium shrink from the 70,000 odd that it is at the moment? Or could they be in League One and beyond with that huge stadium?

On a side note, does the size of your stadium ever decrease?

If Manchester United plumit down the leagues, would their stadium shrink from the 70,000 odd that it is at the moment? Or could they be in League One and beyond with that huge stadium?

I believe so, something about not having the money to maintain the stadium so part of it stays closed.

I can see the pros and cons with this being implemented. On one hand you have the realism of the rules in the real world, on the other hand teams that are BSN/S/Premier and particularly people who manage them would get fed up of walking the leagues every season and being refused promotion, thus never seeing a real increase in revenue or status meaning its harder to keep players etc and progress. For the latter reason i'd prefer it stayed how it is.

One workaround is the board getting a loan to upgrade the stadium, something that i have personally never seen! Or allowing a leave of absence similar to the Championship where you get some time to get the work done.

Then again, whilst promoting you get a big upgrade in TV-revenue dont you? Might not be enough, but it's something.

To be fair, I dont know how it is in England but there are some clubs here in Holland that are really struggling with this problem. Some clubs don't even want to promote, because they don't have the money to upgrade the stadium to match the requirements. We only have 2 professional leagues here in Holland, which means that it's impossible for the First Division (what you would call The Championship) teams to relegate. So some clubs are stuck in the First Division forever.

But in theory there is relegation, isn't there?

I thought Ijsselmeervogels rejected to be promoted although they won promotion...

Yes it is. They are a small club who would never get promoted that far in real life, because they don't have the resources to support it. They wouldn't be allowed into the Championship with that ground in real life, so that's how it should be in the game too.

Really?

Wimbledon (the original incarnation) from non league to Divsion One in around 12 years.

Auxerre, from low down in France to top flight regulars, all thanks to Guy Roux (now retired).

Castel di Sangro, from the Italian amateur leagues in the late 1980s, achieving 'la salvezza' ('the survival) in Serie B in 1996-7. Castel di Sangro only has 5000 inhabitants, and their exploits are detailed in the excellent book, 'The Miracle of Castel di Sangro'.

Gretna's rise to the SPL.

Never say a small club cannot get promoted to high leagues. It can, and on occasion does happen.

Never say a small club cannot get promoted to high leagues. It can, and on occasion does happen.

I remember standing on the terraces at Boothferry park in the mid to late 90s when the club was on the verge of going out of existance (student discounts to get in - well worth it to watch a bit of 'can you hit the corner flag' football ). 10 years later and with a brand new stadium, Hull have transformed out of all recognition.

I miss this feature so much. Does the board cripple the club financially risking meltdown to obtain promotion, or do you force yourself into financial rigour for several seasons with good cup runs to build up funds to help out? Do you even stay on at the same club if they cannot match your ambitions financially? As it is, things are a tad easy in taking some of the better lower league teams surging up the divisions with not a pause for breath or consolidation.