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Apology from Totalfootballfan

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Just to clarify for other users, this is something we raised with TFF following on from some issues raised to us over on FM-Base. We have made it clear that having additional accounts on these forums for any reasons is against forum rules. We're satisfied that having spoken to the user in more detail that they are remorseful for their actions and their apology is genuine. There was no malicious intent from creating these accounts, they did so to make certain tactics and posts appear more prominently. We're hopeful that we can draw a line under this whole thing and that TFF can get back to providing content, tactics and discussion for the entire community.

If anyone wants to discuss any aspect of this further, please feel free to drop me a PM. Thanks. 

 

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So we simply do not talk about the fact he downvoted other tactics with his accounts? 

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3 minutes ago, Piaz88 said:

So we simply do not talk about the fact he downvoted other tactics with his accounts? 

On these forums you can only upvote, there's no way of downvoting. 

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Just now, Piaz88 said:

I ment he coconsistently talked bad about other tactics, at least on fm-base

On FM-Base he has rightly been punished for his actions by their team. On these forums we have taken what we feel is appropriate action given the evidence of what we've seen and what those handful of alias accounts did here. He's made it clear he's ashamed of his childish behaviour and we have made it extremely clear it's unacceptable.

However we do believe in rehabilitation at the right to a second chance. The whole community is aware of what he did and he's paying the price for that. Maybe users won't trust his tactics as much any more, but he has a long history of supporting other tactic creators and the FM community. He made a major mistake and one which he's now put his hands up for and owned up to.  

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the best thing TFF can do now is get back to making the tactics that made him, and we will see if the down/up voting effected his tactics

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I really don't get it. To me it's quite a half-hearted apology (biting my tongue there...) and while he did make tactics people did enjoy he put others down. If not by downvoting on other sites, but by stating that don't work if that option wasn't available. Other creators would have also missed out since he was constantly bumping his own thread and putting them below; so I don't really see how he supported other tactic creators.

To add context, was myself that originally discovered what he was doing and I fought for him not to be banned due to his previous contributions as long as he apologised, in a good manner. That really still hasn't been done. I'd have thought with the multiple accounts also being banned here (would love to know how many he had here) the infraction points have all been added to the main account at least.

I also have some reservations to how noticed this thread will be within the tactics section, would it at least not also make more sense to have it in the shared area which gets the most traffic and stickied?

Edited by Guest

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I'm not really sure how you can break forum rules, but if you just write some apology you might not even mean, it's okay?
Would have to say you're setting a strange precedent.

You've just told everybody that having multiple accounts at SI is okay, as long as you apologize if you get caught it's not really a concern.

Will you release the evidence for transparency as FM-Base did?

TFF has cheated and swindled people for many years, and may have contributed to peoples game experience worsening, maybe tactic creators stopping, and who knows what else. This is SI's customers.

What is the point of having mods here then? If tricking people for many years doesn't get you banned, then what will?

Weird.

Edited by Rober82

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58 minutes ago, Rober82 said:

I'm not really sure how you can break forum rules, but if you just write some apology you might not even mean, it's okay?
Would have to say you're setting a strange precedent.

You've just told everybody that having multiple accounts at SI is okay, as long as you apologize if you get caught it's not really a concern.

Will you release the evidence for transparency as FM-Base did?

TFF has cheated and swindled people for many years, and may have contributed to peoples game experience worsening, maybe tactic creators stopping, and who knows what else. This is SI's customers.

What is the point of having mods here then? If tricking people for many years doesn't get you banned, then what will?

Weird.

 

On FM-Base Tzahy haven been offended and trolled all recent years... What was his fault? He was hated just because he liked my tactic and followed me? Has anyone apologized to him? Has anyone got banned for offending him? He is also SI's customer... and those offend could stopping him from playing...

People who followed me constantly were offended and accused to be me or my agents? But if you are wrong and what if you accused an innocent person… should you get banned for that too?

Recent years there almost wasn't any moderation at all on FM-Base so anyone can come to my threads and offend me or say anything that was far from constructive "critics" so I just tried to defend myself and the people who followed but I regret that I chosed that way... I remember that some guys told me literally that "my balls should be put cheese grater" because he lost a match with my tactic… Did something happen to those people? Nope… no one got banned or something like that…

I'm not trying to find any excuses for what I did and I understand that such behavior isn't acceptable but I want to say that there are many people on FM-Base who are also not "saint" at all. 

 

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TFF mate, try not to react to people. I've used your tactics for years, not because they were top of a table in terms of tactic testing but because they work. Simple as that. Every year. I can't be the only one who waited weeks for you to release a tactic for this year! We are all here to get guidance, help and a tactic that works because we either struggle or dont have the time to fine tune one ourselves. You provide that , whatever went on in the background is done and in the past. I hope you continue to make these great tactics for FM20 and future games mate.

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This should stop being a discussion about FMBase. I advise everyone not to talk about what's transpired on another forum. 

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1 minute ago, Rashidi said:

This should stop being a discussion about FMBase. I advise everyone not to talk about what's transpired on another forum. 

100% this. We should be talking about how it also transpired here and how post-boosting negatively impacts other creators by stealing their limelight. Each to their own though.

Everyone has already seen the evidence we presented at this point.

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10 minutes ago, Declan Barry said:

Since August FM Base has been under new ownership, therefore we are clamping down on abuse of our system. 75+ accounts that boosted your tactics and degraded others’ is probably the biggest abuse to date and it is likely that it will be for a long time.

Liam posted my activity since August and it showed that there's been about 10 posts or even less from accounts associated with my account and all those posts were strictly in my thread so I've never degraded others’ … I allow that there might extremely rare occasions of it for all my years that I've spent on FM-Base and I apologize for it but saying that I degraded others’ is complete untruth.

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2 minutes ago, Totalfootballfan said:

Liam posted my activity since August and it showed that there's been about 10 posts or even less from accounts associated with my account and all those posts were strictly in my thread.

If you want to discuss this further, please message me as we’ve been told not to talk about Base here.

 

However, for transparency we did look into the database and found downvotes on other creators relating to your IP, it wasn’t necessarily comments.

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So... If this is apology v2, when should we expect apology v3 to be released? (the first two so far aren't very good)

And this really needs more attention/visibility. If not in the shared area, then perhaps in the opening post of TFF's threads?

 

 

Edited by Guest

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In fairness to Totalfootballfan I found his apology acceptable on behalf of the SI Community. I can see from this thread that others don't think it's quite to their taste. Please bear in mind English is not his first language and I'm sure he won't mind me saying that in private discussions between us he has stated he is ashamed of his behavior and has made promises nothing like this will happen again. 

Whilst to many of you it may appear that he's "gotten away" with a warning and apology, he is very aware that this was a major misstep and whilst we're giving him a second chance, there won't be a third or fourth. 

For clarification on this specific forum he created some alias accounts which posted in his own tactics threads, asking questions, upvoting posts or stating how good the tactics were. It was all related to his own threads. 

We found no evidence that he had done anything to show other user's tactics in a negative light from any of these accounts, nor is there any way you can 'downvote' other posts here. All these accounts have now been banned and any all related posts removed. 

As said above FM-Base is a different forum and different things have occurred there which they have dealt with in a way they saw fit. Whilst we appreciate there is still some anger about what happened there this isn't really the best place to discuss it. I asked him to post his apology in this forum as this is the area most of you involved in tactics are most likely to visit. As said above, if anyone has any questions or concerns they'd like to raise with me, feel free to do so via PM and I'll respond when I get a chance. Thanks. 

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In my most honest opinion, the apology was fine and as I mentioned privately to you, it's fantastic that he's finally owned up to his mistakes and admitted them.

However the apology is then completely undermined by constant deflections, complete bafflement and amazingly.. further denial!

The reality of the situation is that TFF needed to produce an apology that actually acknowledges how his actions have been detrimental to other creators, something that is yet to happen. I find this thread to be more a case of you apologising for him Neil than him actually apologising for himself and I say that with the utmost respect for you. 

What I'd like to see is a real apology directed at the people he has directly upset, who's tactics he has directly interfered with and who's time he has wasted over Christmas digging down through this messy rabbit hole. 

That's my two cents, I think this saga has come to an end for me now.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

In fairness to Totalfootballfan I found his apology acceptable on behalf of the SI Community. I can see from this thread that others don't think it's quite to their taste. Please bear in mind English is not his first language and I'm sure he won't mind me saying that in private discussions between us he has stated he is ashamed of his behavior and has made promises nothing like this will happen again. 

Whilst to many of you it may appear that he's "gotten away" with a warning and apology, he is very aware that this was a major misstep and whilst we're giving him a second chance, there won't be a third or fourth. 

For clarification on this specific forum he created some alias accounts which posted in his own tactics threads, asking questions, upvoting posts or stating how good the tactics were. It was all related to his own threads. 

We found no evidence that he had done anything to show other user's tactics in a negative light from any of these accounts, nor is there any way you can 'downvote' other posts here. All these accounts have now been banned and any all related posts removed. 

As said above FM-Base is a different forum and different things have occurred there which they have dealt with in a way they saw fit. Whilst we appreciate there is still some anger about what happened there this isn't really the best place to discuss it. I asked him to post his apology in this forum as this is the area most of you involved in tactics are most likely to visit. As said above, if anyone has any questions or concerns they'd like to raise with me, feel free to do so via PM and I'll respond when I get a chance. Thanks. 

I'm sorry Neil, I'd rather not private message as I'd rather us be open. Pushing it private messages is basically sweeping it under the rug and I can't agree with it. I also believe this is the best place to discuss it as it's a forum for the community.

I understand that English isn't his native tongue, however he posts well enough in English in his thread and when answering questions. He also answered in English very well priviately multiple times. There's also the use of Google translate so if he wanted he could have easily wrote a more heartfelt apology and asked you to help with any grammical errors before he posted it though I'm pretty confident he know English well enough without the use of a translator.

I've also seen his apologies first hand along with his excuses, and the fact you and your team had to constantly probe him to get the truth (and probably not the full truth) would surely go against him but it doesn't appear to have been the case. I really do get the point you wanted to make with the apology but it's really not a good apology and I really wish you could see that.

As for where this partuclar thread is located, this area - tactics, training, discussion is also much less active than that of shared tactics section, and will be easily missed by many. TFF is also most active in the his tactical thread so having the apology there and in the sub-forum for shared tactics to where it is would have made it most visible.

What gets me is he's built up a community by misleading them with multiple accounts to manipulate the system. To put a different take on it, if you worked a bank for 10 years but were then caught stealing money from them, they'd fire you. There wouldn't be a warning.

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2 minutes ago, Danwolf said:

I'm sorry Neil, I'd rather not private message as I'd rather us be open. Pushing it private messages is basically sweeping it under the rug and I can't agree with it. I also believe this is the best place to discuss it as it's a forum for the community.

I understand that English isn't his native tongue, however he posts well enough in English in his thread and when answering questions. He also answered in English very well priviately multiple times. There's also the use of Google translate so if he wanted he could have easily wrote a more heartfelt apology and asked you to help with any grammical errors before he posted it though I'm pretty confident he know English well enough without the use of a translator.

I've also seen his apologies first hand along with his excuses, and the fact you and your team had to constantly probe him to get the truth (and probably not the full truth) would surely go against him but it doesn't appear to have been the case. I really do get the point you wanted to make with the apology but it's really not a good apology and I really wish you could see that.

As for where this partuclar thread is located, this area - tactics, training, discussion is also much less active than that of shared tactics section, and will be easily missed by many. TFF is also most active in the his tactical thread so having the apology there and in the sub-forum for shared tactics to where it is would have made it most visible.

What gets me is he's built up a community by misleading them with multiple accounts to manipulate the system. To put a different take on it, if you worked a bank for 10 years but were then caught stealing money from them, they'd fire you. There wouldn't be a warning.

I appreciate your position on this matter, but we don't discuss moderating decisions in public. As said, if you want to discuss this further please contact me via PM.

Thanks. 

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1 minute ago, Neil Brock said:

I appreciate your position on this matter, but we don't discuss moderating decisions in public. As said, if you want to discuss this further please contact me via PM.

Thanks. 

Okay if we take it to DMs, can we do it right? And have the rest of the mod team involved in the DMs at least?

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2 minutes ago, Danwolf said:

Okay if we take it to DMs, can we do it right? And have the rest of the mod team involved in the DMs at least?

The final decision on this was taken by me, anything which needs to be discussed further the moderating team I can always pass on for further discussion. Thanks. 

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Just now, Neil Brock said:

The final decision on this was taken by me, anything which needs to be discussed further the moderating team I can always pass on for further discussion. Thanks. 

I'm sure between us we can make it easier, would save you having to filter it down the chain. I know you're in a difficult position and I was in it to.

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2 hours ago, Rober82 said:

'm not really sure how you can break forum rules, but if you just write some apology you might not even mean, it's okay?
Would have to say you're setting a strange precedent.

You've just told everybody that having multiple accounts at SI is okay, as long as you apologize if you get caught it's not really a concern.

Dear Neil Brock and SI.
I'd like to know about your rules that you hold such a high regard in many of your posts around the forums.
More specifically about why there is no ban in this matter. What that has transpired on FMBase, they have dealt with as you say, and I will leave that be as requested.
However, he has broken SI's forum rules - so I'd like a clarification here, are you changing the rules just this once, or perminently, as Rober said, this is most likely a precedence.
It'll be nice to know if rules on SI's forums can be broken by certain individuals, because then I'll stop using your services.

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I think this should be accepted. Decent guy, plus has provided the community with content forever.

There seems a contest between a few of the ownload providers going on in general, and not all of it is quite mature. 

 

(I'd be more concerned with that TFFs tactics for all the general success on the occasion lead to the added freak 50 shots no goal match*, whilst the opposition scores on every other shot, as they oft lack in basic football logics, but that's me and that isn't unique to his. :D )
 

* in particular on Releases without set piece exploits

Edited by Svenc

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6 minutes ago, Svenc said:

I think this should be accepted. Decent guy, plus has provided the community with content forever.

This is not about, whether or not he is a decent guy.
He broke the forum rules, and should be punished accordingly, in my honest opinion.
How he is as a person outside of all this, I can not and will not go in on, as it has nothing to do with it.
And whether or not he has done this good and that good for the forums is not in question, and should'nt count towards moderators being lenient, because then they have to adjust their rules accordingly.

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13 minutes ago, mcswifty said:

Dear Neil Brock and SI.
I'd like to know about your rules that you hold such a high regard in many of your posts around the forums.
More specifically about why there is no ban in this matter. What that has transpired on FMBase, they have dealt with as you say, and I will leave that be as requested.
However, he has broken SI's forum rules - so I'd like a clarification here, are you changing the rules just this once, or perminently, as Rober said, this is most likely a precedence.
It'll be nice to know if rules on SI's forums can be broken by certain individuals, because then I'll stop using your services.

Our alias account rules were largely put in place to stop users creating secondary accounts when they were banned or had infraction points on their record. 

This specific type of situation hasn't been seen before, we have touched upon it here - 

 

Quote

Any user found to have created a second account when being in possession of a first will have the second account permanently banned and infraction points added to their first account.

If you have a situation whereby you no longer can access the email address linked to your 'old' account and have forgotten your password, rather than abandoning it, please instead use the 'Contact Us' button you can find at the bottom of the forums. 

If you are banned with an account and intentionally create a second account to avoid this ban, we will be harsher with our punishment.

If you create a second account to agree with your first account in a thread, we will not only do the above, but we will publicize it and all laugh at you too.  :D 

In this instance I felt the best solution would be a public apology so all other users would be aware of what transpired. The users can then judge Totalfootballfan for what he did as is their right. In most instances when bans are made they are done so behind closed doors and users rarely have to explain the reasoning behind their posts. 

What happened on any other site is entirely separate to what happened here and has no bearing on our decision. Much like we don't go looking on user's Twitter accounts to use that against them, our decisions are solely made on what happens here. 

All his alias accounts have been permanently banned and his main account has a mark against it that if he ever does anything deemed unacceptable again on these forums then he will no longer be welcome here - this is the equivalent of about 170 infraction points. I don't like banning users as a rule unless it's a last resort - if they're making the forums untenable for other users with abuse or the like, that's when we take action. In this instance he made he used means that he should not have done to promote his own tactics. 

I feel this matter is closed from our perspective and given that all this thread is doing is inviting people to have their say I think it's best we close it for now. If anyone has any further thoughts about this feel free to drop me a PM. 

Cheers. 

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Just a last point on this - from a moderating perspective it was felt that the user subjecting themselves to the public humiliation and stain on their character from admitting what happened was felt a worse punishment than say a week or month ban from these forums. 

We hope we have your understanding in why we chose this being the best course of action.  

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