Help with a Barnsley save

[jdubsnz]

Hi all,

Started unemployed and took the Barnsley job. Newly promoted to the championship and predicted for a relegation scrap.  The squad is pretty poor, but managed to get some good youth prospects in through the loan market and a couple of purchases (and a 41 year old Lucio on a free transfer!).  Tactic was going ok through pre-season but then got spanked by Fulham in my first game.  That has led to lots of tweaking with not much results, a couple of scraped wins but other than that just playing pretty poorly.  

I'm really interested in how you all would approach a save like this.  I have some good young talent up front, midfield is ok, defense and keeper pretty poor.  Below is my starting tactic - any initial thoughts?  Am thinking of dropping 'play out of defense' so we go a bit more direct, and drop the defensive line a bit?  Any help much appreciated!

[rockpie]

10 minutes ago, jdubsnz said:

The squad is pretty poor.

You have to keep this in mind.

Predicted for relegation scrap. Poor squad. Poor morale.

Yet you are asking them to play very technical, extremely high tempo, intense high pressing, etc.

They simply don't have the technical, physical or mental attributes to be able to pull that off against teams that are equal to or better than them.

You can keep this tactic as a 3rd option for the squad to learn, and eventually you can transition more to that style of play as you bring in better players that are suited to the specific roles you want to use.

But to begin, you can't expect Barnsley to be Barcelona. Try a more pragmatic approach. Hope this helps. 

Edited December 2, 2019 by rockpie

[Experienced Defender]

5 hours ago, jdubsnz said:

 

5 hours ago, jdubsnz said:

Newly promoted to the championship and predicted for a relegation scrap.  The squad is pretty poor

 

5 hours ago, jdubsnz said:

I'm really interested in how you all would approach a save like this

With such an underdog side, I would certainly look to avoid gegenpress or any other aggressive and defensively risky tactic. Likewise, a tricky top-heavy and inherently vulnerable formation such as 4231 would be another thing to avoid with a team of such reputation. On the other hand, I don't think that you should go to the opposite extreme and play some ultra-defensive brand of football either. But you should at least try to create a lot more balanced and defensively solid tactic for starters. Once you make such sensible tactic, you can further improve it by slight tweaks here and there.

[jdubsnz]

@rockpie @Experienced Defender thanks both, all makes sense and will look for something more balanced and get back to you!

[frukox]

Try a 4-3-1-2. You will lock down the middle and the flanks with the right roles/duties and clever use of DL and LoE.

[FMunderachiever]

10 hours ago, jdubsnz said:

Hi all,

Started unemployed and took the Barnsley job. Newly promoted to the championship and predicted for a relegation scrap.  The squad is pretty poor, but managed to get some good youth prospects in through the loan market and a couple of purchases (and a 41 year old Lucio on a free transfer!).  Tactic was going ok through pre-season but then got spanked by Fulham in my first game.  That has led to lots of tweaking with not much results, a couple of scraped wins but other than that just playing pretty poorly.  

I'm really interested in how you all would approach a save like this.  I have some good young talent up front, midfield is ok, defense and keeper pretty poor.  Below is my starting tactic - any initial thoughts?  Am thinking of dropping 'play out of defense' so we go a bit more direct, and drop the defensive line a bit?  Any help much appreciated!

I would say this.

Given the situation they are in, and knowing how tough the step up would be. Would real life Barnsley try to:

• Play out from the back
• Play fast tempo short passing
• Counter press in the style of a Klopp Liverpool/Dortmund
• Have full backs bombing on

 

What youre looking for in this situation is a solid, dependable tactic. Keep it tight at the back, keep yourself in matches. Look to be tough to beat, grind out the points. Get the set pieces right. Be ugly.

 

Basically, put yourself in Big Sam's shoes. how would he grind it out?

 

A couple of seasons down the line, this is when to gradually transition into being a footballing side

[samwilzrhcp]

1 hour ago, FMunderachiever said:

I would say this.

Given the situation they are in, and knowing how tough the step up would be. Would real life Barnsley try to:

• Play out from the back
• Play fast tempo short passing
• Counter press in the style of a Klopp Liverpool/Dortmund
• Have full backs bombing on

 

What youre looking for in this situation is a solid, dependable tactic. Keep it tight at the back, keep yourself in matches. Look to be tough to beat, grind out the points. Get the set pieces right. Be ugly.

 

Basically, put yourself in Big Sam's shoes. how would he grind it out?

 

A couple of seasons down the line, this is when to gradually transition into being a footballing side

The answer is yes, under Daniel Stendal this was pretty much our tactical set up.  Obviously it didn't work as we were shipping in goals for fun.

The new manager has changed approach, using a 4-4-2 narrow diamond formation, no wingers, 2 strikers and Cauley Woodrow playing at the tip of the diamond, which is unusual but its working so far.  Maybe give something like that a try?  We still press, but in certain areas and at certain times.  Going forward we are very good, but defensively we give far too many goals away due to individual mistakes.

[jdubsnz]

Thanks all. Still fiddling around - I’m scoring goals but letting in far too many. Struggling to get that defensive solidity. I’m quite happy to play ugly for a while. @frukoxmentioned a 4-3-1-2 and @samwilzrhcpmentioned a 4-4-2 narrow diamond. I think this is my challenge at the moment is a general formation to build from that is considered defensively solid. Is that 3 at the back? Is it stacking the midfield? Has anyone had any luck using the catenaccio pre-set as a base?

[frukox]

 

5 hours ago, jdubsnz said:

Thanks all. Still fiddling around - I’m scoring goals but letting in far too many. Struggling to get that defensive solidity. I’m quite happy to play ugly for a while. @frukoxmentioned a 4-3-1-2 and @samwilzrhcpmentioned a 4-4-2 narrow diamond. I think this is my challenge at the moment is a general formation to build from that is considered defensively solid. Is that 3 at the back? Is it stacking the midfield? Has anyone had any luck using the catenaccio pre-set as a base?

I never used the presets and like to set up my own tactics. 4-3-1-2 and 4-4-2 diamond both offer excellent protection in the middle of the pitch but it requires using two really good(fast, intelligent, somewhat technical) midfielders and full-backs able to get up and down tirelessly and defend the flanks or support the attacks at the right place and at the right time. It also has three players in the forward strata so if you like quick transitions and a pressing style(medium-high block) these formations are the way to go.

Edited December 3, 2019 by frukox

[lewis999]

On 02/12/2019 at 18:55, FMunderachiever said:

I would say this.

Given the situation they are in, and knowing how tough the step up would be. Would real life Barnsley try to:

• Play out from the back
• Play fast tempo short passing
• Counter press in the style of a Klopp Liverpool/Dortmund
• Have full backs bombing on

 

What youre looking for in this situation is a solid, dependable tactic. Keep it tight at the back, keep yourself in matches. Look to be tough to beat, grind out the points. Get the set pieces right. Be ugly.

 

Basically, put yourself in Big Sam's shoes. how would he grind it out?

 

A couple of seasons down the line, this is when to gradually transition into being a footballing side

 

It's funny you say this mate, that's exactly what we try and do. Too much hence the league table. 

[nala]

I am enjoying a limited amount of success - very fragile position just outside the relegation zone- by using a defensive midfielder just in front of the back four instead of the central attacking midfielder. For tactics I use counter attack wing play. You will have to fiddle about with it though. In real life we need an experienced central defender, an experienced midfielder to support /rest Mowatt and a goal scorer to support/rest Woodrow. 

[Jamesbfc1887]

On 06/12/2019 at 08:40, nala said:

I am enjoying a limited amount of success - very fragile position just outside the relegation zone- by using a defensive midfielder just in front of the back four instead of the central attacking midfielder. For tactics I use counter attack wing play. You will have to fiddle about with it though. In real life we need an experienced central defender, an experienced midfielder to support /rest Mowatt and a goal scorer to support/rest Woodrow. 

Mate I really really struggled as well if that's much consolation. Hardest task in England on FM this year imo, weakest squad compared to the division it's in.

[Experienced Defender]

With a team as weak as the current Barnsley squad, a system that could work - if set up properly - is the 4132 wide.