My ideia to fix the amount of long shots

[h3nrique_SEP]

Since the release of FM19, the thing that most bore me are the no-sense long shots. Few weeks ago, i've been making tests to discover how can i decrease these events, nothing that i did solved, i could change the training or the tactics and it never fixed, some games i had with 20 shoots and 1 goal, for example.

At my atual save with Fiorentina, i finally found a way to decrease these long shots, beside that i think that is a match engine bug, or fail, i've had good results, in game with Cagliari, for example, i scored 2 goals in 5 shoots.

You know the pre-match briefing? The function has been added in FM18 and the majority of the players has found it useless, but after a time of analysys and tests, i've discovered that it isn't. During the briefing, when you select a instruction and said it to one of your players, inside the game it makes the instruction that you said became a "high priority". If you play in a Tiki-Taka style, and during the briefing you say to all your players to do shorter passes only, at the game, they you do it only, whatever it takes.

Got it? In this save, to decrease the longs shots, what i've doing is, in the tactic, i set to all the players, to do not make long shots, and at the briefing, i also say to every player to "do not make no-sense shots". And it's showing effective.

This makes the players almost not try long shots, only if some have some trait. In the game against Frosinone, i won by 3x2 with seven shots, all inside the box.

Try it, i hope it help you.

Sorry for my english, i'm brazilian (this is the reason that the screenshots are in portuguese :D).

 

And please, fix it for FM 2020!

 

[djpdavey]

4 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Since the release of FM19, the thing that most bore me are the no-sense long shots. Few weeks ago, i've been making tests to discover how can i decrease these events, nothing that i did solved, i could change the training or the tactics and it never fixed, some games i had with 20 shoots and 1 goal, for example.

At my atual save with Fiorentina, i finally found a way to decrease these long shots, beside that i think that is a match engine bug, or fail, i've had good results, in game with Cagliari, for example, i scored 2 goals in 5 shoots.

You know the pre-match briefing? The function has been added in FM18 and the majority of the players has found it useless, but after a time of analysys and tests, i've discovered that it isn't. During the briefing, when you select a instruction and said it to one of your players, inside the game it makes the instruction that you said became a "high priority". If you play in a Tiki-Taka style, and during the briefing you say to all your players to do shorter passes only, at the game, they you do it only, whatever it takes.

Got it? In this save, to decrease the longs shots, what i've doing is, in the tactic, i set to all the players, to do not make long shots, and at the briefing, i also say to every player to "do not make no-sense shots". And it's showing effective.

This makes the players almost not try long shots, only if some have some trait. In the game against Frosinone, i won by 3x2 with seven shots, all inside the box.

Try it, i hope it help you.

Sorry for my english, i'm brazilian (this is the reason that the screenshots are in portuguese ).

 

And please, fix it for FM 2020!

 

I will give it a go... I have one or 2 players I don't mind cracking the long shots but others I want to stop. Your english is better than my Portuguese (I know none!) 

[Svenc]

 This can't ever be fully "fixed" btw as a match of Football isn't a one-way race, where one Manager has the say over what goes, and the other one zilch. There's Always an Opponent (it might be actually you) who tries to Limit the Opposition side to weaker shots, and generally Keep it out of his box from open positional Play. I know that few Players on FM do this (huge bias towards attacking Play); but I for one was Pretty pissed on a release where I found my compact defense was penetrated easily over and over again.

That's not Football even at the very top -- and at sides that are argued to be the most Patient in their build-up. 

The key in "balancing" this though is both the ME inherent attacking and defensive Play (plus getting rid of the many "nonsensical" combinations you can enter into the UI imo which would lead to bad decisions even if this was actual Football*). As well as arguably not making every AI Manager completely shut up shop as he were Managing Faroe Islands vs Brazil. In particular for top sides, the tactical Scenarios Team face in-game are a lot more one-sided than they are for respective sides in Football.

 

* as the challenge of Breaking down stubborn defenses can be real across all Levels; likewise Things cannot be as easy as pushing a button that says "don't take poor shots", though.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Svenc

[h3nrique_SEP]

10 hours ago, Svenc said:

 This can't ever be fully "fixed" btw as a match of Football isn't a one-way race, where one Manager has the say over what goes, and the other one zilch. There's Always an Opponent (it might be actually you) who tries to Limit the Opposition side to weaker shots, and generally Keep it out of his box from open positional Play. I know that few Players on FM do this (huge bias towards attacking Play); but I for one was Pretty pissed on a release where I found my compact defense was penetrated easily over and over again.

That's not Football even at the very top -- and at sides that are argued to be the most Patient in their build-up. 

The key in "balancing" this though is both the ME inherent attacking and defensive Play (plus getting rid of the many "nonsensical" combinations you can enter into the UI imo which would lead to bad decisions even if this was actual Football*). As well as arguably not making every AI Manager completely shut up shop as he were Managing Faroe Islands vs Brazil. In particular for top sides, the tactical Scenarios Team face in-game are a lot more one-sided than they are for respective sides in Football.

 

* as the challenge of Breaking down stubborn defenses can be real across all Levels; likewise Things cannot be as easy as pushing a button that says "don't take poor shots", though.

I know, but what i looked to "fix" is the amount of shot in a game, makes me sad when i look to a conversion ratio in a championship and my team appears there with 5%, even leading the championship. It's not realistic, for me.

[Svenc]

11 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

I know, but what i looked to "fix" is the amount of shot in a game, makes me sad when i look to a conversion ratio in a championship and my team appears there with 5%, even leading the championship. It's not realistic, for me.

Are those 5% the total seasonal shot conversion? As in: every 20th shot on average is a goal? That's typically around the worst the AI are oft capable of. (Their averages are usually in the +/-10% range). The root cause of this has Always been tactical. In-game it's traditionally oft the Bottom of the table sides, as they barely push men Forward throughout the season and thus barely create decent moves from Play. I can't see this ever going much away until SI Code Managers to making exclusively "realistic" match decisions -- and resulting match Play and moves. It is very easy to set up stuff for the AI too that you would never much see on a Football pitch. At that Point, to me, the "realism" argument goes out of the window.

NOt sure what exactly your side Looks like positioning wise when it appraoches the Opposition final third with the ball. Player preferences can influience this as well. I personally doubt the Long shots are "fixed" via a couple talks though. Not in the Long-term (over a sizeable chunk of matches against different Opposition and with different Teams of your own) anyway. Good luck though.  

Edited September 24, 2019 by Svenc

[h3nrique_SEP]

10 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Are those 5% the total seasonal shot conversion? As in: every 20th shot on average finds the back of the net? That's typically around the worst the AI are oft capable of. (Their averages are usually in the +/-10% range). The root cause of this will always be tactical. In-game it's traditionally oft the Bottom of the table sides, as they barely push men Forward throughout the season and thus barely create decent moves from Play. I can't see this ever going much away until SI Code Managers to making exclusively "realistic" match decisions -- and resulting match Play and moves. It is very easy to set up stuff for the AI too that you would never much see on a Football pitch. At that Point, to me, the "realism" argument goes out of the window.

NOt sure what exactly your own side Looks like positioning wise if it appraoches the final third with the ball. Player preferences can influience this as well, apart of tactical instructions. I personally doubt the Long shots are "fixed" via a couple talks though. Not in the Long-term (over a sizeable chunk of matches against different opposition) anyway. Good luck though.  

The only thing that i want from SI is; to decrease the frequency of shots of the player's side.

Sorry, i can't accept 20 shoots to score 1 goal, at every time i'll play at home,

I play with Palmeiras, in Brazil, and i have a player, Bruno Henrique, who has the PPM of "Shoots from distance" and it's annoying to play with him. No matter how much player could be in a good position to receive the ball, every time he receives the ball in the front of the box, he shoots.

Edited September 24, 2019 by h3nrique_SEP

[Experienced Defender]

7 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

i have a player, Bruno Henrique, who has the PPM of "Shoots from distance" and it's annoying to play with him. No matter how much player could be in a good position to receive the ball, every time he receives the ball in the front of the box, he shoots

If that's what is annoying you so much, why don't you simply tell him to unlearn the trait?

[h3nrique_SEP]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

If that's what is annoying you so much, why don't you simply tell him to unlearn the trait?

i do it, but it's not enough

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

i do it, but it's not enough

If I understood you correctly, the only reason that guy is taking long shots is his trait (PPM) "Shoots from distance". So if you get him to unlearn that PPM (which will take some time though), the problem should disappear. Unless I missed something 

[h3nrique_SEP]

3 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

If I understood you correctly, the only reason that guy is taking long shots is his trait (PPM) "Shoots from distance". So if you get him to unlearn that PPM (which will take some time though), the problem should disappear. Unless I missed something 

it doesn't disappear, this is why i wrote this topic

[herne79]

If you've found the tactical briefing has helped you, that's great and perhaps it may help others too .

In terms of a possible "bug" - the Match Engine is evolving and there is always room for improvement.  However there can be tactical changes you may be able to make to help improve things for you.  I appreciate you say you've tried all kinds of changes but of course we don't know what you've tried.  For example, strikers being isolated from the rest of their team mates can leave them with little other option but to shoot.  Whilst I don't understand Portuguese, at first glance your striker in that 4141 formation looks to be up there by himself without much support.  And if that striker also has the Trait to shoot from distance then the above results can happen.

I don't now if that is what's going on here or not as we have little information to go by.  Sure the ME can be improved but that doesn't mean we can't do things ourselves.  But in order to make more specific suggestions for you (if possible) we'd need to understand your tactical system in detail.

[h3nrique_SEP]

34 minutes ago, herne79 said:

If you've found the tactical briefing has helped you, that's great and perhaps it may help others too .

In terms of a possible "bug" - the Match Engine is evolving and there is always room for improvement.  However there can be tactical changes you may be able to make to help improve things for you.  I appreciate you say you've tried all kinds of changes but of course we don't know what you've tried.  For example, strikers being isolated from the rest of their team mates can leave them with little other option but to shoot.  Whilst I don't understand Portuguese, at first glance your striker in that 4141 formation looks to be up there by himself without much support.  And if that striker also has the Trait to shoot from distance then the above results can happen.

I don't now if that is what's going on here or not as we have little information to go by.  Sure the ME can be improved but that doesn't mean we can't do things ourselves.  But in order to make more specific suggestions for you (if possible) we'd need to understand your tactical system in detail.

Thanks for the answer, this save is older (from june), but Simeone is a PF-A, Benassi AP-A and Veretout B2B, and it happens with a lot of tactics, because i don't think is a tactical problem (could be). What i wish to be changed in ME is: the FREQUENCY of players, especially midfielders, tries to do long shoots, (sometimes, they do 15+ in a game!)

And what i did was, chance conversion + creation training, all players to do individual finishing training, structured, fluid, balanced, attacking, cautious, low press, high press, the result was always the same.

Edited September 24, 2019 by h3nrique_SEP

[Experienced Defender]

I would still say it's (primarily) a tactical issue, rather than a ME bug. I for example have the opposite kind of "problem" from yours - my players usually refrain from taking long shots even more than I would want them to. It sometimes annoys me to the extent that I tell them (i.e. those with the good shooting attribute) to Shoot more often (PI), because I don't want them to overcomplicate things by trying to walk into the goal with the ball. I personally think that neither extreme is good - neither taking too many long shots, nor taking too few (or none at all). For me, balance is key to creating a good tactic, including its shooting aspect. 

47 minutes ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

And what i did was, chance conversion + creation training

This does not prevent players from attempting long shots.

 

47 minutes ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

all players to do individual finishing training

There is no individual finishing training, just shooting (additional focus). 

 

48 minutes ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

structured, fluid, balanced, attacking, cautious, low press, high press, the result was always the same

Making tactical changes on a random basis is not going to solve any tactical problem, and even more so when these changes are drastic. When it comes to the attacking side of the game, I follow 3 basic principles:

- each player needs to have enough safe passing options at any time (and especially during the build-up phase)

- roles and duties need to be set up in such a way as to create space for one another

- avoid being one-dimensional with roles and duties

And there is actually a 4th principle, but this one pertains to both attacking and defending:

- there always need to be sufficient defensive cover for the players bombing forward from deeper positions

[h3nrique_SEP]

12 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I would still say it's (primarily) a tactical issue, rather than a ME bug. I for example have the opposite kind of "problem" from yours - my players usually refrain from taking long shots even more than I would want them to. It sometimes annoys me to the extent that I tell them (i.e. those with the good shooting attribute) to Shoot more often (PI), because I don't want them to overcomplicate things by trying to walk into the goal with the ball. I personally think that neither extreme is good - neither taking too many long shots, nor taking too few (or none at all). For me, balance is key to creating a good tactic, including its shooting aspect. 

This does not prevent players from attempting long shots.

 

There is no individual finishing training, just shooting (additional focus). 

 

Making tactical changes on a random basis is not going to solve any tactical problem, and even more so when these changes are drastic. When it comes to the attacking side of the game, I follow 3 basic principles:

- each player needs to have enough safe passing options at any time (and especially during the build-up phase)

- roles and duties need to be set up in such a way as to create space for one another

- avoid being one-dimensional with roles and duties

And there is actually a 4th principle, but this one pertains to both attacking and defending:

- there always need to be sufficient defensive cover for the players bombing forward from deeper positions

Ok

but i'm my new save, i pick Real Madrid, and i test a lot of different tactics from download, and always i get the same problem, 20, 25 sometimes 30 shots per game, for me the ME is broken.

(in this game i get 40 shots to score 1 goal)

[h3nrique_SEP]

Using the default vertical tiki taka

20 LONG SHOTS

This ME is broken

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by h3nrique_SEP

[GreenTriangle]

3 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Using the default vertical tiki taka

This ME is broken

Your opinion

My opinion, after a career of over 500 games : maybe this ME is not perfect but clearly is not "broken"

From some points of view is even easier to "score" in FM than is IRL.

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Using the default vertical tiki taka

20 LONG SHOTS

This ME is broken

Default (preset) tactics - and the tiki-takas in particular - are full of overkills, so I am not surprised at all that you are facing this kind of issues when using them. If anything is "broken", I would rather say it's these preset tactics than the ME. 

[h3nrique_SEP]

On 25/09/2019 at 11:58, Experienced Defender said:

Default (preset) tactics - and the tiki-takas in particular - are full of overkills, so I am not surprised at all that you are facing this kind of issues when using them. If anything is "broken", I would rather say it's these preset tactics than the ME. 

So almost every tactic is broken

I'm not looking a way to score 5 times with 10 shots, i just want to decrease the number of shoots per game.

 

[yolixeya]

5 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

I'm not looking a way to score 5 times with 10 shots, i just want to decrease the number of shoots per game.

That is a weird statement. Usually people just want better quality shots.

If you really just want less shots, play on a defensive mentality, maybe put some roles biased towards possession based style of play. Be passive without much penetration, add work ball in the box etc.

[sergivela]

As I see it, @h3nrique_SEP comes with a very legitimate complain that I share completely, and you can only tell him that all the tactics he tried are broken. Even if that is true, he should still be allowed to force his players to not shoot from distance, or a least have a much stronger impact on the decisions taken by the more 'disciplined' players (i.e. those with good decisions, teamwork, an whatever other traits you might think of). 

With the current ME, you can design the best tactic you're capable of as a moderately good FM player, follow all of the "experts" suggestions about role combinations, and still have Messi or Coutinho (as examples of players with highest tactical and mental skills) trying nonsensical shots from far away despite having much better options, just because they have the "shoot from distance" trait.

To me, the actual topic of debate is "how much the team instructions and individual traits should influence the player choices". That is, how "disciplined" should the players be to their tactical instructions vs. personal preferences.

In my opinion, since we all play this game as coaches/managers of a team, more weight should be given to tactical instructions: If I want my fullback to NOT CROSS balls, he should not it. If I want a guy to NOT SHOOT, he should not it, regardless of how many other options he has available when he has to take a decision. Not being able to enforce such options is ... well ... not realistic, and very frustrating.

Currently, the game only allows soft restrictions in the form of "Cross less often" or "Cross more often", I would like a 3rd one that we could call "If you cross you'll be substituted". The same for shooting.

[GreenTriangle]

What about realism? H3nrique exemplified his opinion with a match in she Spanish league. But in another match in the Spanish league Real Madrid shoot 22 times to score a goal. And only 4 of these shots were on target (!). 10 shots were from outside the box, 12 from the box. Why so many shots and so few shots on target ? It was so simple for the manager to tell them "do not shoot until there is a clear chance to score" ...

[RPM_01]

On 24/09/2019 at 21:30, herne79 said:

I don't now if that is what's going on here or not as we have little information to go by.  Sure the ME can be improved but that doesn't mean we can't do things ourselves.  But in order to make more specific suggestions for you (if possible) we'd need to understand your tactical system in detail.

I think this sums it up pretty well. Too many times people either blame the ME as a whole or the tactic when it is most likely a mix of the two. I've seen a good amount of times where a player doesn't have 'Shoots from distance' PPM, has plenty of viable options, on a lower tempo and still balloons multiple shots from distance, which I believe, is where the ME can improve. However, I've also created tactics in where there is limited options for the player so all they can do is shoot from distance, that is down to the tactic and can be addressed by reading through the forums and experimenting yourself to try make bring these situations down to a minimum. The screenshot of you having 30 shots with 5 on target won't be solely down to the ME, you will need players attempting to make runs in behind or players around him giving him options to pass to. My favourite tactic currently is having a Mez-A and W-A on the same side of the pitch providing an overload and penetration but having the striker drop off and an IWB to provide the passing options too.

58 minutes ago, sergivela said:

Currently, the game only allows soft restrictions in the form of "Cross less often" or "Cross more often", I would like a 3rd one that we could call "If you cross you'll be substituted". The same for shooting.

I think this is a valid point too. Often you have WBiB and Shoot less often yet the player simply doesn't listen to you. In real life this just wouldn't be acceptable and would be talked about before the next game.

Edited September 27, 2019 by RPM_01

[yolixeya]

1 hour ago, sergivela said:

To me, the actual topic of debate is "how much the team instructions and individual traits should influence the player choices". That is, how "disciplined" should the players be to their tactical instructions vs. personal preferences.

If you want him to be disciplined make him unlearn that trait. Bu it would be stupid if you could do that with just one click. Suarez will not stop to argue with officials just bcause his manager told him not to do so. He will be able to do it few times but sometimes his temper will win that battle. He would have to work on that for some time and in some cases, he may never remove that from his game. For example, I don't think Suso will ever learn to not be biased towards his left leg. He cuts inside most of the time even though he has more space wide.

I agree that problem isn't just tactics but it is a big part. I'm able to reduce the shots from 40+ to just 10-15 with a few tweaks. OP thinks that it is impossible to have below 10 shots like in that Barcelona screenshot, in the current ME and that is simply not true. 

[Experienced Defender]

11 hours ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

i just want to decrease the number of shoots per game

Wait a minute... you want to decrease the number of long shots (i.e. shots from distance) only, or you want to discourage the players from shooting even when they are in a good goal-scoring position (which btw does not make sense at all)?

If you want your players to take less/fewer speculative shots, the key thing is to set up the system - primarily roles and duties, but also instructions (always taking the mentality into account) - in such a way that they have good and safe passing options in the final third at any point. The Work ball into box instruction can help, but only on condition that you have set up roles, duties and (other) instructions properly.

[Svenc]

On 25/09/2019 at 16:58, Experienced Defender said:

Default (preset) tactics - and the tiki-takas in particular - are full of overkills, so I am not surprised at all that you are facing this kind of issues when using them. If anything is "broken", I would rather say it's these preset tactics than the ME. 

The AI utilizes those too… not sure exactly what it Looks like atm, but as said the game imo should only allow "sensible" tactical decisions from the off. Is the game simulating semi/pro Management, where Managers may misjudge Things -- or is it simulating a Basic Coaching Course, where they may encourage Play you may never see on a pitch of footie -- if the latter, you couldn't Point to professionally managed Football Matches and Claim "unrealistic". As a Bonus, SI may have balancing the ME easier. As pointed out in the Posts above, perceived issues are oft a combination of ME issues and tactical picks (for both sides). 

 

As of aforementioned "download tactics", there is heaps of trash out there every year. I didn't ever see a match of 60 shots without scoring before trying -- and they oft push every single Player under the sun Forward, where they oft camp inside the space of a can of tunafish. Not much of an issue this Season/s, as setpiece exploits still seal the deal. However, squeezing Play high up the pitch is exactly what a defensive side is already encouraging. They get it ridiculously easy to get a foot into moves to foul, block, deflect, clear and force bad decisions. To go to Paragraph #1 this just doesn'T happen in footie. 

Considering how defensively the AI oft operates, there should be a) more struggles to break down defenses as well as more b) speculative shots than in real Football. Things in-game turn to be Pretty one-dimensional quickly, in particular for top sides. Pretty confident that if you went into the Editor, picked a league, edited every Manager to prefer top-heavy formations, attacking traits plus leveled each club's starting rep, that would Show big consequences -- both on Play, as well as on the amount of Goals socred. 

 
 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Svenc

[h3nrique_SEP]

Yesterday, in Brazilian Championship we had two teams who scored 6 goals, and none of them did more than 20 shots.

 

7 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

What about realism? H3nrique exemplified his opinion with a match in she Spanish league. But in another match in the Spanish league Real Madrid shoot 22 times to score a goal. And only 4 of these shots were on target (!). 10 shots were from outside the box, 12 from the box. Why so many shots and so few shots on target ? It was so simple for the manager to tell them "do not shoot until there is a clear chance to score" ...

Yes. 22, not 30 or 40

Edited September 27, 2019 by h3nrique_SEP

[yolixeya]

1 hour ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Yesterday, in Brazilian Championship we had two teams who scored 6 goals, and none of them did more than 20 shots.

 

1 hour ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

Yes. 22, not 30 or 40

So what is your point? You can also find examples that are completely opposite. I still remember this game from last season. 47 shots and no goal   https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47943076

[h3nrique_SEP]

14 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

 

So what is your point? You can also find examples that are completely opposite. I still remember this game from last season. 47 shots and no goal   https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47943076

It happens, but it's the exception, not the rule.

[yolixeya]

44 minutes ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

It happens, but it's the exception, not the rule.

Scoring 6 goals with less then 20 shots is also an exception.

[h3nrique_SEP]

9 minutes ago, yolixeya said:

Scoring 6 goals with less then 20 shots is also an exception.

1x1 with less than 20 shoots too

Edited September 27, 2019 by h3nrique_SEP

[GreenTriangle]

20 hours ago, RPM_01 said:

I think this is a valid point too. Often you have WBiB and Shoot less often yet the player simply doesn't listen to you. In real life this just wouldn't be acceptable and would be talked about before the next game.

This is the problem. The poor guy is trying to listen to you.  But if you give him contradictory instructions ... what can he do? "Play aggressively, attack 90 minutes ... but do not shoot or cross !". 

[RPM_01]

8 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

This is the problem. The poor guy is trying to listen to you.  But if you give him contradictory instructions ... what can he do? "Play aggressively, attack 90 minutes ... but do not shoot or cross !". 

You're missing the point. You want the players to play to your instructions. Why do I want my holding midfielder shooting from distance where it's quite clear that nothing will come of it? My post was more about balance than being aggressive for 90 minutes, but anyway...

[Maradonna]

if we throw stats around than maybe dont just cherry pick single matches. rather build avgs over a season within a league.

[GreenTriangle]

3 hours ago, RPM_01 said:

You're missing the point. You want the players to play to your instructions. Why do I want my holding midfielder shooting from distance where it's quite clear that nothing will come of it? My post was more about balance than being aggressive for 90 minutes, but anyway...

And they really do that. They are playing what are asked for. But players are not machines. Each of them has their own abilities and personality. Some of them may be more disciplined, others less disciplined. Some of them focus better, others have trouble maintaining their concentration. Some make good decisions quickly, others need more time.  In relation to these aspects would it be realistic to have a command "do not shoot / cross at all" or "always shoot / cross" ?  

I talked about an aggressive approach because only a team that plays very offensive will shoot 30 or 40 times per game.

[Svenc]

19 hours ago, Maradonna said:

if we throw stats around than maybe dont just cherry pick single matches. rather build avgs over a season within a league.

Absolutely. Still, even ME aside, the Management of actual Matches vs in-game tends to be hugely different. Both on the AI's end, who shuts up shop at every opportunity (to slightly exaggerate). As well as the human manager's end. As argued, there is a lot of Input allowed in the game that translates to Play you wouldn't even see on a pitch of Football. Whilst it is debatable whether it should -- If the game were to report back with "realistic" stats then, that were a bad sign. Stats after all are the result of actual Play.

I've personally lost Count how often a Player was implying that having x time more shots in itself was playing well. It's not. One viable Point in there may be that it may be too easy to get shots off that -- evidently -- have a comparably low Chance of conversion. From my experience, this goes in particular for set piece based approaches, which sees the boxes packed by Definition -- and the finish oft being a header. If all attempts wer equal opportunity, then the game were a poor sim of Football. https://statsbomb.com/2016/10/xcommentary/ Another may be that the AI is too rigidly defensive, oft not even trying. It is a natural byproduct of the AI's "shut up shop" tactics if Matches in Terms of shots are this one-sided this oftenly. There's surely also something to say About attacking movement, which is inherent to the ME.

Still, the Point stands. A real Manager doesn't set up to primarily get a load of shots off. He sets up in a way that may increase his chances of scoring, which is done by trying to CREATE SPACE -- which is an altogether different matter. The shots that go off are a byproduct of that, not the end itself. Some Releases have been trickier than others, but the Solutions have Always been the same -- getting Players to think rather than trying to score cheap Points by luck. It's been evident since the dawn of FM that some Players have terribly shot to Goal conversation ratios, whilst others fantastic ones. However, for as Long as the gap in Input can be this wide, the gap in Player Performance will exist on any release.

Speaking About stats:

On 27/09/2019 at 22:06, yolixeya said:

Scoring 6 goals with less then 20 shots is also an exception.

The average Long-term shot conversation is roughly 1 Goal every 10th shot. Thus, you should expect to score a Goal on in every 10th shot. Top Teams can have Seasons in which they convert 1 in every 6th shot (City when they dominated the Prem, say). Not sure whether that is understood by the OP, as he's listened a 1-1 with roughly 30 shots, which is Nothing out of the ordinary, but rather what you'd "expect" -- on average. Obviously None of These stats tell what extraordinary Events may transpire in isolated, single Matches.... like the shaken hosts of a World Cup falling completely apart for 15 minutes.
https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/round=255955/match=300186474/statistics.html

Or, as of FM, the crappy no Football logics exploit download tactic cramming all Players into the space of a can of tunafish reporting back with 60 shots, a Corner kick alone for roughly every 3rd Minute of, er "Play"; -- and not a single Goal. 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Svenc