3 at the back defending too narrow?

[Icy]

Why is my team defending like that? observe the right side of the attack, Left forward #16 is initially marked by my right winger, while my 3 defenders are bunched at the right side. At some point, my right winger forgets about his mark, while the 3 defenders keep had by hand defending the right side of the pitch. No way a 3 way defenders system would work like that, the right defender #5 would be the one marking the left striker all the time #2 would be marking the other forward #13... or am I wrong?

How could i improve that weird behavior from the AI? setting my two side defenders from the back 3 to man mark each forward?

Edited August 8, 2019 by Icy

[Experienced Defender]

Unless you post a screenshot of your whole tactic, I doubt anyone will be be able to give you a proper answer to your question.

[herne79]

I agree from those screen shots it looks weird.

One question - what consistent issues is this causing you?  And by consistent issues I mean over a number of matches.  Apart from looking weird you haven't said how your team are performing or how many goals you are consistently conceding as a direct consequence of this narrow defending.

We also don't know your tactical system or who your players are, so possible causes may be to do with Pressing, marking issues, defensive width, player aggression, opposition player movement, some/all of the above.  We also don't know the context of the screenshots: are they all from long build up open play?  a throw in?  corner?  counter attack?  The context can be important.

[Icy]

It was a single game, here is my tactic:

I'll try to upload a video later, but honestly I don't see how any other tactical setting can affect who covers who in a 3 back defense and why are my 3 central defenders bunched up in the left side instead of more central, with defender number #5 covering attacking player #16 and defender #2 covering attacker #13. Basically in that play, my number #2 defender is doing nothing there, so it looks more like a bug from the AI not knowing who covers who in a 3 back defense and not knowing that it had 3 defenders available plus the two wingers. 

Of course you can say it was just a mistake by the players because lack of positioning, anticipation, etc, that is always the doubt between a bug and a feature in the ME. I'll observe if it was a single issue or common for 3 man defenses.

[Experienced Defender]

6 hours ago, Icy said:

This tactic does not look bad defense-wise, but the formation is tricky because it does not employ any fullbacks or wing-backs, which means that both wide men - as being solely responsible for their respective flanks - must have great both physical (stamina, acceleration, pace) and mental attributes (work rate, teamwork, anticipation, decisions, determination, positioning), plus at least decent tacking and marking. So I would assume that the problem comes from not having the right players for this kind of system.

Btw, this formation is better suited for a counter-attacking than possession-based style of play.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Experienced Defender

[TOMetz]

Do you let your ass man choose automatically which players to pressure, tackle harder or man mark? Or maybe there's a PI that you lost sight of where, in the screenshots, your #5 is instructed to man-mark the opponent's #13?

[Warrenwwr]

I've been enticed and burned by the 3 dc formations in fm19 (with no DRL or WBRL that is)

I know your pain. The DCRL are forced into making so many mistakes. It's very realistic don't get me wrong.

On 08/08/2019 at 12:44, Experienced Defender said:

Btw, this formation is better suited for a counter-attacking than possession-based style of play.

^^This is most likely spot on advice. If you like this formation, then give that style a try. It doesn't mean you have to go all out direct either.  Just a different mentality. In pre season or for the reserves try different template tactics. I actually got  vertical tikitaka to work with a similar formation with 1 or 2 changes including a mentality change.

Did you set any PI to man mark specific opposition positions? I've seen some bad defensive positioning but I'd pull my hair out if this happened for my team.

[rouflaquettes31]

My answer is late but I have played with this formation on my save (only the shape, not the team instructions).

And I often observed this problem. I tried so many solutions but there is no magic one.

Indeed, Side players are wingers, and not wing back. Naturally, a winger will not mark an opposite winger.

The default is that  thewing back is too defensive for me.

 

The solution I find is first to set wide defense (TI).

Then, set as an individual instruction for winger AND 'lateral' central back to mark the position (not the man, the position) of opposite winger. Yes, both are marking the same zone (I insist, not the man but the zone).

I observed that it reduces the distance between your winger and your lateral center back, so the cover is better.

It is not magic. If my winger is awful on marking, and opposite team is strong, they can score with this kind of actions.

 

I hope it is clear (I lost my english this summer)!

[RocheBag]

I have played 3 at the back formations exclusively on FM19 (as I do every year.) I've played with wide midfielders like you, I've played with wingbacks. I've played with AC Milan and Chelsea, and I've played in Iceland and the Norwegian 3rd tier. I can tell you that regardless of tactic, regardless of instructions, and regardless of player quality, the back 3 are just way too narrow in this match engine.

The back 3 play way too close to each other, and wingbacks (if you use them) are way too passive in closing down, instead often allowing central midfielders to come all the way out and close down their man.

The TI Defend Wider helps a little, but not much. Hoping they fix this for FM20.

[Razor940]

Put the lateral center backs on full back strata and siting narrow, it's the solution. 

You will see the 3 at the back that you want, and with this you can emulate a lot of what Pep did at Bayern. And after all, you will have the flanks covered too.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Razor940

[RocheBag]

2 hours ago, Razor940 said:

Put the lateral center backs on full back strata and siting narrow, it's the solution. 

You will see the 3 at the back that you want, and with this you can emulate a lot of what Pep did at Bayern. And after all, you will have the flanks covered too.

Funny enough, I just started experimenting with this last night although for a different reason. I'm trying to replicate Sheffield United overlapping centerbacks so I have fullbacks on support with wingbacks directly ahead of them. Needs some tweaking but it's working fairly well so far.

Maybe I'll create a thread for it. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by RocheBag

[djjoshiejosh]

13 hours ago, Razor940 said:

Put the lateral center backs on full back strata and siting narrow, it's the solution. 

You will see the 3 at the back that you want, and with this you can emulate a lot of what Pep did at Bayern. And after all, you will have the flanks covered too.

This works beautifully although I have one of my CBs going a bit far forward when I have him set as a no nonsense FB but the defending width is nice

[jc577]

13 hours ago, RocheBag said:

Funny enough, I just started experimenting with this last night although for a different reason. I'm trying to replicate Sheffield United overlapping centerbacks so I have fullbacks on support with wingbacks directly ahead of them. Needs some tweaking but it's working fairly well so far.

Maybe I'll create a thread for it. 

Please do!

[Icy]

Seems like a nice workaround, will try it. Do you train your CBs to be FBs? aren't them penalized for being out of position?

[Icy]

I have tried it in a couple of games and I must admit that it works! At least VS teams with 1 forward and wide ams, let’s see when I face a team with 2 forwards.

I guess SI could learn from this and to set the 2 wide defenders when 3 at the back to act almost as narrow defensive fullbacks when defending.