Wanted: very basic role/duty setups for 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3

[Greyfriars Bobby]

Hello, everyone.

I've enjoyed FM much more since I learned to keep things simple tactically.  I'm playing FM 14, and I've been using a very basic 4-4-2 tactic that I've been using as the starting point for my teams.  It looks like this:

               DLF(s)   AF(a)

W(a)     CM(s)   CM(d)   WM(s)

FB(s)    CD(d)   CD(d)   FB(a)

                GK(d)

Standard mentality; Balanced fluidity.

Team instructions: only one or two; usually Work Ball Into Box or Pass Into Space, depending on what my players do well and what their opponents can do to stop them.

I have the goalkeeper set to distribute to his defenders.  

I sometimes switch the central midfielders, so the support role is on the right and the defend role on the left.

I'll also use an AP(s) in place of the CM(s) sometimes.  

It's been working well for me.  Even in the lower leagues, I can get a team playing well enough that I can keep my job, which gives me time for fine-tuning if I'd like.  The roles are basic enough that I can find players who fit them fairly well.

I've been trying to set up a similarly basic setup for a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1.  I'm struggling to get the roles and duties sorted for the midfielders and forwards.  Could any of you suggest a setup that will provide a good, balanced base?  

Thanks, in advance.

[nte]

Maybe this one?

Won PL and CL with this tactic on my third season, I was playing ManU

[sirgiorgio]

I, too, have used a similar 442 and it rarely let me down, although I obtained the best results coupling a DLP (d) with a BWM (s).

I'd consider 4231 as a variant of 442; there's very little to change in your set-up: for instance wm ---> if (s) and winger (a) ---> winger (s).

Both the striker and the AM, IMO, could be on attack, but their "best" roles depend on the players you have, really. My only suggestion is to tell the AM always to "roam from position", it is fairy useful when you play against teams who use a DM.

The best thing about 433 is that you have three midfielders (d'oh!)... a very basic, no-nonsense set-up could be to have the DM on defend + CM on support + CM on attack, but then again, it's a good thing to adapt the roles to the players. DLP(d) + Mezzala (s) + Mezzala (a) is a great combination, IMO, as well as HB (d) + BBM (s) + AP (a). But these are just a couple of examples. The main issue with 433 is that the striker is there, isolated against (at least) two defenders; the ABC of Football Manager tells you to have him on support (or any role that doesn't have the "get further forward" instruction) but hey, if your striker scores for fun let him do it, right? One of the two wide players should probably be on attack, and maybe at least one full-back should become wingback (the role, not the position), usually coupled with an AM who has the "cut inside" instruction.

The other great thing about 433 is that, if you forget about the "I wanna play like Barcelona" dogma, you can easily adapt it to any sort of situation. For instance, if you want to exploit the middle you can have both CM on attack, if you want to exploit the flanks you can have both AM on attack, and you if play against teams who defend in numbers you can even turn your DM into a regista. Anything goes, as long as you keep your balance.

 

[Experienced Defender]

On 18/08/2018 at 19:13, Greyfriars Bobby said:

Hello, everyone.

I've enjoyed FM much more since I learned to keep things simple tactically.  I'm playing FM 14, and I've been using a very basic 4-4-2 tactic that I've been using as the starting point for my teams.  It looks like this:

               DLF(s)   AF(a)

W(a)     CM(s)   CM(d)   WM(s)

FB(s)    CD(d)   CD(d)   FB(a)

                GK(d)

Standard mentality; Balanced fluidity.

Team instructions: only one or two; usually Work Ball Into Box or Pass Into Space, depending on what my players do well and what their opponents can do to stop them.

I have the goalkeeper set to distribute to his defenders.  

I sometimes switch the central midfielders, so the support role is on the right and the defend role on the left.

I'll also use an AP(s) in place of the CM(s) sometimes.  

It's been working well for me.  Even in the lower leagues, I can get a team playing well enough that I can keep my job, which gives me time for fine-tuning if I'd like.  The roles are basic enough that I can find players who fit them fairly well.

I've been trying to set up a similarly basic setup for a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1.  I'm struggling to get the roles and duties sorted for the midfielders and forwards.  Could any of you suggest a setup that will provide a good, balanced base?  

Thanks, in advance.

As for 4-2-3-1, an example of well-balanced setup could be this one (I would have suggested a carrilero, but you said you were playing FM14, which does not features the role):

F9

APMs        SS         Wa

BWMs     CMs

FBa    CDc    CDd     WBd

Another option:

DLFa

IFa        APMs        Ws

BWMd    BtBM

WBs    CDd    CDc    FBs

As for 4-3-3:

DLFs       P        F9

CMs  DLPd   BWMs

WBd   CDd   CDc    FBa

Or maybe something like this:

 DLFa      F9       AF

BWMd   DLPs   BtBM

WBs   CDc   CDd    FBs

Shape-wise, I don't know which shapes are available in FM14 because I've never played that version of FM, so I cannot suggest you any at the moment.

 

 

[Robson 07]

On ‎18‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 18:13, Greyfriars Bobby said:

I'm struggling to get the roles and duties sorted for the midfielders and forwards.

For me the 4231 causes most headaches with stability i.e. midfield and defence.  To help with that I've found using an Inside Wing Back (IWB) helps the midfield plus a stopper/cover defensive pairing to mitigate for the IWB.  This is probably of no help to you, especially if FM14 pre dates an IWB, but good luck anyway,

[RodentofDoom]

I use both along with a 352 as my 3rd setting.

 

My 4231 is (Sometimes I use VOL BWM in the DM strata instead of 2 central midfielders)

AF

IW AP W

BBM BWM

WB CD BPD FB

 

My 433 is (You could also use 2x CAR or 2x MEZ in the mcl/r spots)

DF TM P

BBM BWM AP

WB CD BPD FB

[Bjick]

Do you want a narrow or wide 4-3-3 @Greyfriars Bobby?

I like playing a wide 4-3-3 this way:

 

W(a) - F9/DLF(s) - AP (s)

Mezz/CM (a) - Car

DLP (d)

IWB (d) BPD/DCB - CB WB(a)

SK(d)

 

Or this way like in @herne79 West Ham Thread:

 

W(s) - F9/DLF(s) - Raum/IF(a)

Mezz/CM(a) - AP(s)

DM(d)

FB(a) - CB - BPD/DCB - WB (s)

SK(d)

 

You could also check out @Rashidi Ajax diaries where he played a 4-3-3 or @Cleon Art of Possession Thread, stickied at top of tactis forum

[sporadicsmiles]

I do not see the point of playing a carrielo in a formation that has two players out wide. You are reinforcing an area that has strength already and weakening the middle for no reason.

Here, it all depends on what you want to achieve. For me, there are three key things you have to provide in a wide 433 (I do not play with a narrow 433, I do not see it is a realistic tactic).

1. a runner from midfield who can get towards the AMC strata to support the striker.

2. A player who is supposed to be a main goalscoring threat.

3. A player or players who supply width.

Normally, I go with something like

GK(D)

FB(A) - CB(D) - CB(D) - FB(A)

                      DM(D)

            DLP(S)       CM(A)

W(S)                                IF(A)

                    DLF(S)

standard and structured. The CM(A) gives you an advanced midfield outlet - I stick my most creative player here. The IF(A) is my main goalscoring threat. I have width on both sides (the right has overload potential too). It works pretty well. Of course, then you can modify it depending on how you want to play. I use PIs and OIs to try to create intense pressing in the opposition half with much less in my own half. I try to score goals with counters that result from my pressing, or by nice build up play. The wide players, particularly on the right, will often draw additional defenders which leaves more central space.

I rarely play with a 4231, so I am not sure what I would change. If I did, I would probably have two DMCs and play a more counter attacking game rather than controlling the game from the front.

[Bjick]

47 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I do not see the point of playing a carrielo in a formation that has two players out wide. You are reinforcing an area that has strength already and weakening the middle for no reason.

It can also be a CM(s) or BWM (s), whatever you want. A carrilero doesn't only defend the flanks but also covers the middle so when the right personnel is used the middle will still be covered.

Speaking of weakening areas for no reason: why 3 attacking duties on the same flank? You have to watch them very closely as there is little to no protection there right?

I would swap the CM(a) with the DLP(s) and change the FB behind the IF to support.

I agree it all depends on what you want to achieve.

[sporadicsmiles]

21 hours ago, Bjick said:

It can also be a CM(s) or BWM (s), whatever you want. A carrilero doesn't only defend the flanks but also covers the middle so when the right personnel is used the middle will still be covered. 

Speaking of weakening areas for no reason: why 3 attacking duties on the same flank? You have to watch them very closely as there is little to no protection there right?

I would swap the CM(a) with the DLP(s) and change the FB behind the IF to support.

I agree it all depends on what you want to achieve.

It could be that I have the midfielders the other way round, I was writing from memory so I could have got that wrong. You are right that 3 attacking duties on the same side looks a little suspect. So does the CM(A) and IF(A) attacking the same space. Switch the midfield duo and I think that would be more correct.