Pole to Pölten: One man's eternal struggle with his FM impatience

[felley]

ABOUT ME

Hello there, don't think i've ever created a thread on here before, so i'll introduce myself. My name's Felley and I only joined this forum relatively recently, but i've read various posts on it since I started playing. I got into FM about 3-4 years ago, so not really a long term football manager game guy. The first couple of FM editions I played got me slowly addicted and also eased me into my current playing style; one born of a gauntlet laid down to me by my mate where I had to do the classic Conference N/S to Champs League glory, only in less than 9 seasons. So i'll be the first to admit that I am a tad impatient with results. I've also had a very busy last 12-18 months in my real life, and with time at a premium, it's lead me to a place where i'm constantly starting new saves all over the globe looking for that bit of magic to get me interested again. Unfortunately, this new level of impatience has arrived at a time when FM is more complex - and better, IMO - than ever and it frustrates me that i'm not getting the most out of the game. So i've done that thing we all read about so often on this forum (it's almost become the forum's raison d'etre) and decided to sit down, get thorough and start to understand the “why?” and “how?” as opposed to just “what?”. I hope that my relative inexperience, busy life and impatience will inspire others to get their hands dirty with the game mechanics and prove that you don't need to go full boffin and dedicate your life to get the most out of this awesome game. If I can do it, anyone can!

THE PLAN

My plan is to pick a team i've never heard of and take them to their equivalent of glory via a carefully considered tactic, aided (though not exclusively guided) by principles outlined by users/moderators in some excellent posts/guides on this forum. I hope to build a tactic from the bottom up that suits my players and gets the most out of them. The team i've chosen is SKN St. Pölten who are an average side in the Austrian First Division (the second tier competition). I chose them because I knew nothing about them or the league they play in, so the first few sessions will be mostly dedicated to learning about my players and adapting my initial plan as I go.

Of course, feedback and criticism are welcome as this is a public forum. It would be nice to be able to bounce ideas off others, though I am hardly an expert nor will I be explicitly asking for help. The most important thing for me is that this thread doesn't become too self-interested and start lacking in utility to other users. I completely agree with the thoughts expressed by many in this forum; that the best way to learn is to raise questions, not give answers. I would like to steer clear of absolutes.

Thank you for reading. I'll probably post the first entry of my tactical journey immediately after this, so please enjoy that.

[felley]

SKN ST. PÖLTEN INITIAL ANALYSIS

I think the best place to start when taking over any club is to look at every player you have at your disposal and decide who will play a big part, who will be rotated, who is useless and - if you're lucky enough – who are the young prospects that could potentially kick-on towards a first team spot. I should mention at this point that I have set the game so there is no transfer budget in the first window. I didn't want to be tempted into changing the squad too much and utilise a style that I may have done before. It should also be noted that the board gave me two options in terms of expectations: Top-Half Finish or Promotion. Both gave me the exact same budget due to me starting without a transfer window, so I chose the former to ease the pressure.

This is the squad I have to work with after a bit of re-jigging (better players in reserves added to first team and long-term injuries removed to get a clearer picture):

These are the key players I have picked out from my initial assessment:

I'll save you all from posting screens of every player and simply say that upon first glance, i'd say St. Polten have a very well balanced team, with many players capable of playing multiple positions. As a whole, they seem to be decent all-rounders with fast(ish) and technically accomplished defenders, midfielders capable of a bit of everything and a small clutch of varied forwards (fast, creative, target man). I hope this gives me plenty of options when choosing a formation and my first thoughts are that I should be implementing a somewhat fluid style to account for the generalism in the squad.

My second port of call is the Team Comparison tab. In my opinion, one of the most useful tabs in the game. Below you should find some small snapshots of the info presented to me with a short conclusion drawn from each of the sets of data.

Judging from this, I am blessed to have a team that are very capable with the ball, with great decision making and strength. My worry here is that there is not too much to call across the 10 teams in the division, with some of the stats averaging out at less than 2 points between lowest and highest average. Another of my worries is that we lag behind in work rate and I also noticed a few first-teamers have low determination. This leads me to think I should try and steer clear of asking my team to press too hard for too long. Nevertheless, my strengths are clearly with the ball, which is always encouraging.

Not much to say here. I have a couple of average Goalkeepers. The only stat of real concern is the poor One On Ones. Maybe a deeper line would protect my keeper in this respect.

Some very useful information here. With a fast, well positioned defence, I should be able to play a pretty high line. Alongside the above point about the keepers though, I am wondering whether to go for a true high block. The low determination and work rate may also serve me badly in that respect. Much to consider.

As you can see here, I am blessed with some great all round players in the centre of the park. That high decision making is of particular interest, as it should allow me to assert the technical superiority further. The below average creativity, teamwork and long shots isn't ideal though and is making me perhaps consider a more direct style. It certainly is a conundrum. Solid in possession, great passing, but not really amazing at moving the ball around for long periods and creating great chances. Much more to consider!

Not an ideal situation up front and definitely the weakest area of my team. I only really have one forward capable in the air which is making me re-assess a direct style – or at least rule out a system too dependent on one tall presence in the box. The pace should serve me well against most of the defences in the league, but I would have to try and draw teams out if I were to take full advantage of this aspect.

[felley]

THE DRAWING BOARD – CREATING THE PREFERRED SYSTEM USING THE INITIAL ANALYSIS

FORMATION

My initial thoughts on formation are as follows:

• Use a single striker as I am weak in both quality and numbers up front

• 4-5 players in midfield to take advantage of my greater quality in the middle of the park

• Not too much strength in depth at AML/R, so probably better to use ML/R strata

• I have good options at AMC, CM and DMC meaning I should be able to create a strong triangle as a base for possession

• Either FB's or WB's at the back, I have a few options here

• A centre back pair should suffice; my central defenders are fast and should be well positioned

In my mind that narrows it down to two formations; a 4-4-1-1 and a 4-1-4-1. Both are strong formations and capable of lots of tweaking. It could also serve me well to have two options that take advantage of a spare man either at AMC or DMC.

PLAYING STYLE

My initial thoughts on playing style are as follows:

• Due to the team's strength with the ball, i'm pretty certain a Control strategy would be a good starting point

• The generalism within the squad is definitely pointing me towards a Fluid or Very Fluid fluidity setting

• I may need to ask the players to push further up the pitch to get something between a medium and high block that functions well, but I reckon the Control mentality should do this pretty well. This should work well with my fast defenders.

• In an effort to solve the conundrum of low creativity and teamwork, I think it is vital to create movement to allow for fast and accurate transition through the team and not keep hold of the ball for too long. To these ends, I will be using the Look For Overlap and Higher Tempo TI's

• The vast majority of my midfielders, full backs and forwards are above average dribblers, so I will choose Run at Defence to take advantage of this. The effect here is actually two-fold, as my players have great decision making. I'm hoping that running with the ball as well as the vertical overlaps should encourage them to create incisive attacking moves.

• The final TI included in this preliminary tactic is Drill Crosses. This is mainly because I don't expect to have the height advantage in the area on many occasions. My strikers also have decent movement which is another factor in taking advantage of a driven cross.

So moving onwards and upwards, I have created both a 4-4-1-1 and a 4-1-4-1 with almost identical roles and completely identical TI's. My logic here is that I only wish to switch between them when wanting to take advantage of the spare midfielder in the opposite strata i.e. - The opposition has a very capable AMC or is playing without a DMC etc.

That's it on the tactics for now. The next part of the job involves working through pre-season, getting the players fit and familiar with the system and reporting back with analysis where needed. I am guessing there will be tweaks in pre-season, but whenever I do make a change I will post it up here with an explanation. I therefore cordially invite you all to consider and criticise my logic so far. For example, maybe you've seen something i've overlooked? I also would like to ask if anyone would be interested in downloading my save and having a look for themselves? If so, let me know and I’ll endeavour to get it uploaded somewhere. Thanks for reading.

(The final thing I should add is that I am currently without an internet connection, so I am having to mostly compose posts offline and then upload them via a friend's computer. There's an irony here due to the title of this thread, but please be patient!)

[coupdhaha]

Nice few opening posts. I look forward to seeing how you go! I'll be interested to see if that "look for overlap" works out or not, and also potentially your LW and left FB being too far apart.

[Mr U Rosler]

Some nice footballers in Austria on low money....... must get a scout over there for my Tonbridge team... when the board let me.......

[jpcote09]

Good stuff. Keep us posted!

[Jambo98]

Excellent post(s) and well thought out approach. I love the idea of going to a bit of an unknown place to re-kindle some interest

One comment, and others might pitch in here and clarify/contradict, but i think the "team comparison" has to be used with some caution. Its not clear to me (or in game) which players the game actually takes into account when calculating this (eg the entire club, or just those consider in the "first team squad" - i beleive it is the later). The other thing there is of course, that the average over your entire squad might be somewhat different to that of your first choice players.

Look forward to hearing your progress and learnings

[felley]

Cheers for the feedback, guys.

@Jambo98

I've shared this same confusion with the comparison tab in the past, but after a bit of fiddling around with the squad and making sure only the best players were in the first team, I actually got better stats on the tab. I can only assume from this that it only takes their attributes into account. I understand where you're coming from though - and I think you are right that one should be cautious - but I suppose i'm guessing it's a mean average so if there is a player with a particularly low value in the stat, then he will be balanced out by players of a higher than average value.

I'm hoping to post up some analysis later today, and from what i've seen so far, there will definitely be changes of some degree.

[CamillePunk]

Great start, following with interest. The 4-1-4-1 is a great shape.

[Letissier1980]

Hi felley. Good thread well done. I believe cleon said the comparison was for the first squad only and yes they are only averages so I do tend to look at the individual players before the game starts just to see if they are slow at the back or short up front. The 4-1-4-1 is a great defensive shape ( the formation screen shows how they will defend) so you will have to see where your players are when they attack. I did try it myself in lower leagues.

Good luck and keep us updated

Cheers Darren

[felley]

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD – THE FIRST ANALYSIS OF THE 4-4-1-1 IN ACTION

As is the way, my assistant set up the intra-squad friendly straight away and it gives me chance to get started on analysing one of my two formations. Granted the team is still extremely unfamiliar with the tactic, but it is useful to see the mechanics and to check whether there may be things I could improve at this very early stage. After playing through the match only changing players for fitness reasons, I watched it back again with some help from the analysis tab.

We start with a screen cap from the very first play, straight from kick-off. Below we see my supporting Central Midfielder – Hofbauer – on the ball, right in the middle of the pitch:

The back four are well spread and aren't positioned particulary high or deep. There is a slight difference between the DL and DR; the right sider being a Wing Back on attack duty, which accounts for his more aggressive positioning. The defensive Central Midfielder drops deeper and moves laterally, giving the more advanced players an out-ball and accounting for any vertical movement from opposition midfielders. The ML is attacking the space ahead of him which is what I wanted, whilst the MR is holding position more and looking to support the right side. The AMC makes a fantastic run through the right channel that goes unspotted by Hofbauer who instead attempts to feed the Complete Forward who has perhaps positioned himself too far forward and in an offside position.

The second screen cap is from the goal kick immediately following the first bit of play. Having a quick look at this helps me to see how my team initially line up when defending:

The ball is currently high in the air but is heading for Rass - the opposition AMC. What is interesting to note here is that Rass is being picked up by my AMC, rather than Jano - the more defensive minded Central Midfielder. It is encouraging to see that the team looks solid through the middle and out wide with all 10 players compressed into a 20-25 yard space. The wide midfielders and forward have also found themselves some space which would be beneficial if we were to win the ball back and launch a counter attack.

The third screen cap highlights an issue that I found a couple of times down the flanks as well as a few problems I had with the movement of players due to their roles:

Holzmann, the ML is on the ball and has several options. Off the ball, we can see the other circled players. I have highlighted them because their movement is incredibly static – indeed – 2 of them are standing completely still. This isn't always a problem, but I feel we have a great opportunity here to bring our other flank players on either side into the game. Instead, Holzmann aims for the forward (My AMC has moved beyond him), which is the most crowded part of the pitch, seeing the ball cut out by a defender. I feel this situation arose from a variety of reasons:

• Holzmann is a Wide Midfielder on attack duty, not a winger. His propensity is for crossing from deeper positions, rather than taking on his man and looking to open things up in a more advanced part of the pitch.
  
• My AMC is an Attacking Midfieler on attack duty, meaning he is seeking to get into the box earlier. This could be useful, but in our current guise leaves us with no central link between midfield and attack.
  
• Although I am using the Look for Overlap shout, my DL is stood still 10 yards behind Holzmann. This may be because he is a Full Back on support duty, so doesn't favour the overlapping run as much. The width of Holzmann should also be taken into account, as he hasn't left much space for a potential run.
  
• On the right side, both of my flank players are far from aggressive in attacking the space ahead of them. Yes, the ball is on the opposite side of the pitch, but a central or wide run would open up further options for the team. Again I believe the roles are definitely at play. The MR is a Wide Midfielder on a support duty which accounts for his static movement and lack of desire to effect the game further up. The DR is starting to make an overlapping run, but is perhaps not as aggressive as I would like. He is one of my best players and has a wicked long shot, so I may look to try and get him to angle his runs centrally (Not 100% sure how yet!).
  
• Centrally my defensive minded Central Midfielder is also static, but I feel this is beneficial in this scenario as he is well positioned to cut out any potential counter attack from a breakdown in play.
  

Funnily enough, a breakdown in play is exactly what happens which leads me to the next screen cap. Here we see Rass receiving the ball from Geppl in the centre of the park (Geppl had won the ball back from Holzmann's cross in the previous screen cap):

This situation could become quite dangerous if we're not careful. My AMC (circled on the far right of the picture) has been caught a long way out of position. This in turn has a knock on effect, with Jano closing down Geppl and my other Midfielder having to deal with 2 players. As Rass receives the ball, my CB launches himself out of defence like a rocket, which can be a very risky manoeuvre, especially if he were to miss the ball. As for the oppostion, their MR has lots of space to move into should he have the pace and desire and their spare Central Midfielder has the opportunity to find a good position unmarked centrally. Rass infact tries a pretty difficult ball over the top to the forward (which is cleared back to him but gives my team time to recover their shape somewhat), but he had time to play it inside or across the pitch as the opposition MR continues his run out of sight of the Full Back and unmarked by my ML.

In the following screen cap, we find Kerschbaumer in a lot of space between the midfield and defence; certainly a dangerous area to receive the ball:

Hofbauer actually chooses to pass it out wide and then play a part in some overlapping activity down the flanks. The ball from our DL is poor and straight to the keeper. Meanwhile Kerschbaumer continues his aggressive running and once more finds himself up front with the striker.

[felley]

PRELIMINARY CONCLUSION

All these examples were in the first 5 minutes of the first game, and yet I feel I may have some ideas that could improve my current tactic already. Of course it would be ridiculous to have a radical rethink, especially as the players' familiarity is certainly coming into play. But I feel this first 5 minutes is quite a pure representation; neither I, nor the opposition manager (at an educated guess) will have changed anything that could have a bigger effect on the game, so early in a game is a good time to view a tactic in action.

My thoughts after watching the match through a second time and analysing a few moves in depth are as follows:

• I want to be getting my flanks involved more regarding dribbling and overlapping. I feel the two flanks are a little imbalanced and may have to switch some roles or apply some Player Instructions to sort this out.
  
• A big problem is the play of the AMC. I feel he gets forward too quickly and also gets caught up field too often. I may have to explore other roles here like Advanced Playmaker or Enganche.
  
• Further on this point, I feel my team is lacking a playmaker. Kerschbaumer at AMC would be excellent in this repsect. He already finds space well, I need to encourage my players to choose him more often than not as a passing option.
  
• The crossing was woeful. They were usually too high or from too deep. If I am to take advantage of my forward movement, I may have to use Wingers to get round the defence and drill a ball across.
  

[felley]

THE STATS IN DEPTH AND WHAT THEY SHOW

As I have outlined a couple of times, this first analysis is perhaps an unfair test due to the tactical unfamiliarity, but I will now highlight a few things of interest from the Analysis tab

Wasteful shooting

As we can see here, the shooting accuracy is a massive concern. I feel this is due to a couple of factors:

• The fluidity of the tactic is encouraging players to be more creative with opportunities and shoot from distance/when the chance of missing is high.
  
• My lone forward is finding himself in a poor attacking position to receive the ball for a chance (I played two strikers in the match who managed two shots each).
  
• There are only perhaps two viable distance shooters in the squad, so those who are shooting from distance have an even smaller chance of hitting the target.
  
• The crossing rarely created chances close to goal.
  

Passing lacks penetration

Regarding the passing, my only real worry is that there are not many forward passes into the 16-yard box from the immediate vicinity. There are gaps all around the box and quite a large hole on the right side that I could be looking to fill if I were to make my attack more varied.

Poor crossing

Here we see the crossing problem I have mentioned a few times. Only five completed crosses is certainly a cause for concern, especially when thirty-five were flung into the box from open play! (Shades of Moyes' United against Fulham?). This further enhances the need for some better movement up front alongside more considered wing play.

Additionally, it would appear that the left flank out-performed the right flank in terms of quantity and quality. Not only that, but they were able to work themselves closer to the goal. I will certainly be making changes out wide in this respect.

Movement

Not a great deal to show here, but I have included this picture as I think it further underlines my findings regarding the difference in play down the flanks. The left flank clearly out-performs the right once again, with only one overlapping run all game on the right side.

The Heat Map/Average Positions

The final bit of the analysis tab I have chosen to include is the positional heat map with the average positions of the players. I have a couple of comments to make regarding the shape and the reasons for it:

• With one of my central midfielders seeming to operate effectively in a holding role, I feel I can be perhaps a little more adventurous with his counterpart who seems to sit quite deep.
  
• I am pleased with the positioning of the back line (the number 4 was moved to RB with about 10 minutes to go, which accounts for his position)
  
• Once again, the issues with the flanks are highlighted. The heat map shows there was more forward activity on the left as well as a more advanced ML and a more disciplined DL. The right side are much closer together and could be getting in each other's way.
  
• The issue with the AMC is also highlighted again as his average position is quite a distance from many of the other players. This is exaggerated further in the second half, with the two substitutes (AMC and ST) overlapping in their average position.
  

That's all the analysis of the 4-4-1-1 i'll treat you to for now, time to go away and digest what i've learnt and make a few tweaks. I won't be doing this for every pre-season game as I don't think it's necessary. I will make a small amount of changes a game at a time and report back with the pros - and maybe cons! - of what i've changed. The next post will be a similar analysis of the 4-1-4-1 in action.

[Jambo98]

Excellent analysis and posting there again

With regards to a couple of the points:

1) The DC rushing out and closing down - Unfortunately, i think this is a "feature" of the current ME and has been much talked about. When you dont have a DM strata player it is very difficult to stop the DC making this move, and it can be ruthlessly exposed by good teams and players. Its tricky to work around this when you dont have a DM strata player, and you are playing anything other than "push up" (which has its own massive down-sides, but at least closes up the space between the lines to slightly reduce the chance of this type of defending)

2) Support around the edge of the box - I think its well worth considering a CM(a) here. Its a great role, much loved amongst many here. He will get forward nicely, and often provide a great option just a little deeper than an AM(a). With his partner on CM(d) you should have cover. You can either leave the AM(a) or can combine CM(a) with AP(s/a) who link up nicely.

Just some thoughts.

[Colorado]

Excellent thread, you are doing a good job of dissecting your tactics and performance.

[felley]

Thanks again to everyone for the feedback, much appreciated.

Excellent analysis and posting there again

With regards to a couple of the points:

1) The DC rushing out and closing down - Unfortunately, i think this is a "feature" of the current ME and has been much talked about. When you dont have a DM strata player it is very difficult to stop the DC making this move, and it can be ruthlessly exposed by good teams and players. Its tricky to work around this when you dont have a DM strata player, and you are playing anything other than "push up" (which has its own massive down-sides, but at least closes up the space between the lines to slightly reduce the chance of this type of defending)

2) Support around the edge of the box - I think its well worth considering a CM(a) here. Its a great role, much loved amongst many here. He will get forward nicely, and often provide a great option just a little deeper than an AM(a). With his partner on CM(d) you should have cover. You can either leave the AM(a) or can combine CM(a) with AP(s/a) who link up nicely.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers for the thoughts. I'm currently having a look at the 4-1-4-1 variant but the match was a bit of a disaster! I'll get round to analysing that later this evening hopefully, but at first glance it looks like the flanks are now a big problem...

As for the point about the CB, I wasn't aware that it was a common issue but I can completely see why he rushed out as the midfield was short a player to help close out the move.

And i'm completely with you on the CM(a), AP(s/a) partnership. My line of thought exactly. Especially due to the problems i've had with my AMC and the need for a playmaker to perhaps take the reins when creating chances.

[felley]

BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD 2 – THE FIRST ANALYSIS OF THE 4-1-4-1 IN ACTION

After testing out the 4-4-1-1 in the first game of pre-season, I felt I should hand the second game to my other formation, in an effort to getting them both working. Once again, the team is pretty unfamiliar with the tactic, but it's not as bad as it was so surely this makes it a slightly fairer test. I watched this next match live and it wasn't exactly a gleaming debut for the tactic. I noticed a few things that I may have to look at during the game, but I thought I would save this for further in-depth analysis. So away we go.

The first screen cap is from the opposition's first meaningful attack of the game. After both sides were a bit wasteful in possession for the first 2 minutes, the following situation pops up:

Lösch receives the ball in the centre of the park and his eye is immediately caught by one of the opposition's two strikers – Palko – who has dropped off the RCB towards the large space to the right of my DMC. This in itself is not too problematic as we should have a 2v2 on the right flank and Palko's options elsewhere are limited. The problem is that my RB has ran into a very narrow position, watching Palko and attempting to mark his movement. Ahead of him, my RM is completely oblivious to the opposition LM making a great run behind him. Palko receives the ball and before my RB can challenge him, lays it off to the LM who by this point is on the edge of the area. The LM then has time to wait as the play catches up before swinging in a cross that is fortunately cleared. In isolation, I feel each little mistake in this sequence is small, but when accumulated, they add up to the possibility of a chance created and a goal scored. This is why I think this happened:

• My RB is once again set as a Wing Back on Attack duty. I feel that this role, coupled with my Very Fluid fluidity setting is making him a little aggressive in trying to cut out the move. If you compare him to he LB who faces virtually the same situation on the other side, the RB is far too narrow.
  
• My RM is once again set as a Wide Midfielder on Support duty. As with the other formation, I feel this makes him too static and unlikely to be close enough to the opposition in order to intercept a move down his flank.
  
• The opposition is playing a 4-4-2 with deep midfielders. This seems to have drawn my midfield out, creating space in behind them for the opposition to exploit.
  

About 5-6 minutes later we finally get to see my team attacking:

This is actually some great football from both teams. My team look meaningful with their runs and movement, trying to create gaps; the opposition well positioned and close to their opponents. Brandl dribbles with the ball into a dangerous position as the two opposition DMC's are pushed/pulled back by the movement of my striker and Central Midfielder on Attack duty. My striker moves laterally in an effort to drag the CB with him and my ML makes a great run on the blind-side of the opposition RB. From my perspective, the only pieces missing in this puzzle are again the two players on the right flank. Although my RB has an Attack duty (and the PPM “Gets Forward Wherever Possible”), he doesn't keep up with play or manage any meaningful overlapping run. The opposition shape is very narrow and there is plenty of space to exploit down the right side. Coupled with that, his team-mate (the Wide Midfielder on Support duty) is once again static where he has an opportunity to make a similar run as the LM, or at least make up the numbers in attack. As shown with the black arrow, Brandl eventually plays the ball into the onrushing CM who is simply crowded out by the narrow shape and deep midfield.

The opposition eventually work a glorious opportunity down the flanks, but it's not the one you're expecting! The following screen cap shows this (i've included it because it happened on more than two occasions):

Some really efficient football from the opposition here. Putz was dangerous whenever he had the ball down the right side and – left on his own – it was only a matter of time before my LB was caught out. Putz skins him and earns himself a vital couple of yards to position himself for a cross. Meanwhile, Palko makes an excellent run straight past my CB and misses a glorious opportunity from 7-8 yards. In my opinion, there are a number of factors at play here:

• My left flank looks wide open, with my ML caught up-field either marking their RB or looking to create something on the counter.
  
• My DMC is marking space (not exactly a bad thing) when he could perhaps come out wide to support the full back. His role is a Defensive Midfielder on Defend duty. A way I could perhaps encourage more tracking of players would be to set him to a Support duty and have one of the CM's on a Defend duty.
  
• I think a narrower shape might have helped me here, with my FB defending the box rather than wide out on the flank. Putz's run might not have been possible and the angle of attack would leave him with a less clearer crossing opportunity. This would also make my DMC more effective as he would be closer to the play and more likely to have an impact.
  
• The defending from my RCB was awful, yet I have sympathy and mistakes can happen. A narrower shape might've helped here too, with narrower channels for the opposition to move through.
  
• Although not implicit in the move, I also notice that the defence down the right side is once more a little off. My RB has come very deep, playing onside anyone who fancied a run. The distance between him and the ML is criminal in my opinion. Once again, I feel he is tracking Palko's run rather than concentrating on the man down his side. My RM meanwhile finds himself in a deep and not utterly terrible position defending the box. However once again, there is movement that he has failed to spot; he doesn't cover - and shouldn't always be expected to cover - the RB's wild positioning.
  

[felley]

Following on from this chance, we see a very similar problem a few minutes later:

Not much to say here as it is very similar to the first opportunity carved out by Putz. He finds himself some space for a cross, only this time his team-mates aren't in amazing positions so the cross is cut out. I would just like to briefly highlight the fact that my DMC and LCB are essentially making the same run back into the area side-by-side. I think my DMC is trying to make up the numbers and protect the gaping hole between my RCB and my LB. I am once again thinking that a narrow formation would be beneficial, bringing all these defenders closer and defending the key zones of the pitch.

Finally my team create an excellent chance of their own:

I'm very pleased with this move as all three forward runs were from deep and two of them went unmarked by the opposition. Osman Bozkurt is the Striker and he has dropped off the frontline very effectively, dragging defenders with him. As the space opens at the back, my ML and both CM's take notice and launch themselves into it very aggressively. Bozkurt plays a simple ball to the central player of the three (my CM on a Support duty) who continues his run into the box and blasts his shot well wide. Not half bad.

Another chance is created moments later:

This is again pleasing due to the sharpness of the move. Ambichi proves that he has the speed and ability to produce some great movement beyond the opposition LB whereupon he shoots just wide. Bozkurt is again at the centre of the move, dropping off the frontline, receiving the ball and having the strength to hold off the defender and play a lovely through pass into a dangerous position. A little more composure/confidence and we would've had a goal here as well.

Finally, here are a few screen caps of their first goal which arises from a combination of many of the defensive factors already mentioned:

Putz drags my LB to the touchline again and has the skill to whip in a ball to the centre of the box. At first glance, the box looks well defended with the attackers outnumbered 3-1. But look at that right flank again. The opposition LM has time to stroll into a dangerous position should the ball not get cleared...

There's a bit of a scramble and panic (the GK rushed out and got involved too) and the ball eventually rolls out wide from a attempted clearing header. Five of my defenders (including the GK) find themselves sucked into the scramble, leaving large areas completely unmarked. My MR thinks his job is done and starts jogging back upfield. But there's a certain fellow that everyone forgot about. The opposition LM picks up the ball and has all the time in the world to make something happen...

Heiß actually plays it early to Palko who is in space after the RCB had no choice but to close down the winger and he smashes it home from 6 yards. Ok, I had three defenders near him but they're not actually doing much apart from playing everyone onside (all three of them actually end up leaving the player in the middle to the right of Palko) The keeper perhaps could've done better, but a driven shot from 6 yards could elude even the best goalkeeper.

The game finished 2-1 to the opposition (their other goal was a corner, which I can sort out later!) with St. Polten grabbing a late consolation from some decent play similar to the chances above.

[felley]

THE STATS AND WHAT THEY SHOW

Just a couple of brief points related to the stats this time as I feel the above analysis has already given me a good picture of how the tactic is working both offensively and defensively.

Passing lacking in the final third

There's a couple of things at play here:

• Once again, we lack a creative force in the final third which is leaving us without too many meaningful attacking moves.
  
• Both flanks are a problem this time with virtually no action either side of the opponents 18-yard box. I am starting to think Wingers may offer me more directness and the dribbling I desire.
  
• My Striker was much less mobile than the two played in the first game (attributes wise, he's a Target Man) and although he played a good part in dragging players around, I may need more players attacking the box.
  

The Heat Map/Average Positions

(I should first mention that the strange average positions in midfield are down to me having to rotate the players between different roles due to tiredness/substitutions) This picture is very revealing indeed:

• My team averaged out much more narrow than I expected with the one exception being the LM.
  
• Again, perhaps wingers would've patrolled the flanks better but I feel the key thing at play is my fluidity, with the higher mentality players more likely to take more risks.
  
• To account for a gap on the left side, I could set my CM(s) to a CM(d) and my DMC(d) to a DMC(s). This may plug some holes that are allowed the opposition to get so many 1v1's against my LB.
  

CONCLUSION

Once again, it's early days as this is the first test of the tactic, but I feel I am starting to formulate some ideas already on how to improve it. My thoughts after digesting all the analysis information are as follows:

• The flanks simply NEED to be sorted out. The main ideas I have to test are the changing of roles on both sides, changing the fluidity and looking for support from other areas of the pitch.
  
• Despite the negatives at times, we looked much more solid through the middle with a DMC. Sounds like an obvious thing to say, but it helped.
  
• As with the other formation, I really think we need a playmaker in this formation as the squad suffers from low creativity. If someone can take control of the attacking moves, I think we can start scoring for fun with some of the movement from the Striker and onrushing midfielders.
  
• I am certainly considering a narrower shape that could help out in a few ways, bringing defenders and attackers closer together and partially eliminating the problems we had when facing a bold and direct winger.
  

So thanks again for reading. My next post should be regarding the changes i'll be making to the 4-4-1-1 formation. Let me know if you think it's a good idea to switch back and forth between formations or whether or not you think it's confusing/counter-productive.

[RTHerringbone]

Excellent stuff felley - probably the best presented thread in terms of analysis we've had for ages

[coupdhaha]

Enjoying reading it so far - well presented and well written. I don't mind you switching between your formations. Keep it up buddy

[felley]

REPLACING THE COGS, NOT THE MACHINE – MINOR CHANGES TO THE 4-4-1-1 TACTIC

It's a good idea to equate a football tactic to a complex machine, like a car for example. If your car seemed unhealthy, you would try and diagnose the problems and then replace/upgrade the parts of your car that were faulty/under-performing; you wouldn't replace the whole car. Unless you're rich, in which case buy as many cars as you want... But FM makes us all less economically privileged car owners. It makes it harder for you to chop and change in big chunks; we are encouraged to tweak.

So i've done the hard part in gathering all the analysis together and drawing conclusions from the stats/what I saw. Now it's time to use that to make tweaks and see if I can turn an average tactic into a good one – or at least one that suits my team. The next game is actually against FC Basel, so I have my work cut out a bit to get a result. But as it is pre-season, the result isn't really important. I just need to make sure the changes produce more of what i'm looking for.

THE CHANGES

I start off with roles/fluidity. I would have kept the fluidity set to Very Fluid as I felt it suited my team, but the addition of a Playmaker makes me think I would like to slightly limit the creativity of others. I am hoping this small drop in the fluidity setting will force things to be centred around him whilst still allowing the team to flex their overall generalism. The role changes in detail are as follows:

• The introduction of the Playmaker should be vital in the improvement of this tactic. The play was lacking around the 18-yard box. I have chose a support duty in an effort to get him staying a little deeper and waiting for the overlapping runs from midfield.
  
• This introduction also means I have changed my LCM to a Central Midfielder on Attack duty. I am hoping this will create some strong forward running and link-up play for the Playmaker to exploit.
  
• I have changed the right side of my formation to mirror the left. Not a big fan of having symmetrical formations as they can get a little one-dimensional, but my analysis pointed to the left side set up being the better one, so i'm willing to experiment. The RM Wide Midfielder on Support duty is now on Attack duty and the RB Wing Back on Attack duty is now a Full Back on Support duty.
  
• As mentioned in detail above, I dropped the fluidity down a notch to Fluid.
  
• I have also mentioned in previous posts the possibility of using Wingers but I chose to hold back as I didn't want to make too many changes just yet.
  

THE MATCH

I have to admit, i've never watched a 4-1 defeat with such interest before (I usually flip a lid if we concede two in two minutes!). In spite of the media predicting a close game, the reality is that Basel are streets ahead of St. Polten in most areas of the pitch, and we came away being able to say our play was very good in phases and the Playmaker definitely improved things. There were also many negative factors approaching the fixture centred around the Fitness of the squad. Most outfield players started with between 65% and 75% fitness, I had to rotate the team several times in the match and ended up fielding some very poor players through fear of injury. These conditions added to the fact I perhaps chose a suicidal formation (that they're not too familiar with!), makes me cautiously pleased with aspects of the wider performance.

Regarding their goals, I thought three of them could be at least partially put down to individual brilliance when watching the game. We'll take a closer look at two of them...

Their first was a 20-yard drive into the top corner after Streller received a pass from Frei in quite a deep position:

When I saw this goal as it happened, I thought: “Fantastic goal”, “Nothing you can do about that”, “Basel are just too good” etc. But after watching it back there is much more to it:

• When Streller receives the ball, his movement has completely eluded my remaining CB giving him a free effort on goal. My LCB may have recovered due to his speed, but Streller is good enough to take the chance and shoot early. Though we may not face a player of Streller's quality this season, I need to be denying chances as easy as this.
  
• Circled are my back four and Central Midfielder on a Defend duty. I have encountered the same mistake as in the first game with this formation; with no holding player at DMC, the RCB has rushed out and a gap appears in the heart of my defence.
  
• I have also circled their AML/R as this was a key component of their attack. They essentially had three up front against my four defenders. Another problem exacerbated by the lack of a DMC. As my RCB rushes out, we are left in a 3v3 situation at the back which is dangerous even if Streller doesn't shoot early.
  

The second goal came from a breakdown in play after a throw in on the left side. Basel were able to work a crossing position and centre the ball for Streller who nodded it in. The first screen cap shows how the move started:

Andrist receives the ball from Frei (off screen) and plays a delicious first time pass behind the defence. This just about eludes my LCB, who seems to attempt to cut it out but lacks the agility.

Degen cleverly lets the ball run to the touchline, allowing Streller to position himself perfectly for the cross. I have circled my back line and Defensive-minded CM in an effort to show the space Streller was afforded.

In analysing this goal, I have picked out the following points for comment:

• Firstly there is some poor luck involved with the goal. Our LB was taking a throw in and so struggles to get back into position to give Degen more of a challenge. Furthermore, when the header comes in from the cross, it is quite weak and bounces off the keeper into the net. Additionally, earlier in the move my LCB was unfortunate not to cut out the ball from Andrist.
  
• Once again, the lack of a DMC is hurting us through the middle. I simply have to find a workaround for this as I will be repeatedly punished by better opposition.
  
• My back line ends up incredibly deep as they attempt to mark the 6-yard box. I am not fully sure what has caused this, though it could just be Streller's excellent Off The Ball attribute (17) which is eluding them here. My LCB is drawn towards cutting out a near-post cross whilst my RCB chooses to mark a central zone. Again a DMC that could've tracked Streller may have helped here.
  

So after analysis, both goals weren't only down to individual brilliance; my formation and roles played a part. Again, Basel are much tougher than any opposition we will face this year, but it wasn't impossible to beat them. Maybe the media prediction was right!

[felley]

For the record, their other two goals were a stunning free kick and Streller completing his hat-trick from a corner (I will sort them out at some point, I promise!).

As for the general play of St. Polten, I have a few examples that are worth noting. They all show the value of having a Playmaker:

Schibany is the Playmaker but what this screen cap doesn't show is that he has actually carved out this chance - virtually on his own - with his movement and passing all the way from a throw in on the left side (he's 3rd or 4th choice for this position as well) . He played four 1-2 passes in the process, the last of which results in a great chance for Kragl that we see in the above picture. Kragl shoots first time which was the wrong decision as my forward was onside and free in the box. We can forgive him though as he's a reserve and I would hope we could create a number of these chances against inferior opposition.

Again, we see Schibany at the centre of things. Unlike the last outing of this formation where I used an Attacking Midfielder on Attack duty, the Advanced Playmaker on Support duty is operating deeper and creating some lovely passing triangles. He first passes back to my RCM who passes out wide, the RM passes back to Schibany who feeds Noel (my ST) who in turn plays a through ball for my LCM to run onto. My LCM attempts an audacious first time shot that is well wide, but the build up play was top notch here. The roles for my central players are spot on for this type of play:

• Schibany as the Playmaker is receiving the ball more often and finding space where he can hurt the opposition.
  
• My RCM is a Central Midfielder on Defend duty and sits deeper offering the more advanced players an out ball if there is nothing on as well as preparing for any counter attack that might occur.
  
• My ST is a Complete Forward on Support and is using his movement well to drop back off the front and get involved in play.
  
• My LCM is a Central Midfielder on Attack duty meaning he gets forward into dangerous positions, such as this one.
  
• 
  

One last example of Schibany running the show. Once again, he works the chance himself with a neat exchange in the middle and some great movement. He plays my striker in with a great through ball and the resulting shot is well saved at the near post.

[felley]

THE STATS AND WHAT THEY SHOW

Shooting from better positions

The shooting has certainly improved since the last outing, with 70% from inside the box. I feel this is the result of having a Playmaker tasked with crafting out moves. It is also encouraging to see that my strikers had more shots and a greater percentage of the overall shots. The shooting accuracy is still a little off, but a lot of that could be down to fitness and composure.

Still some gaps in the passing, but the Playmaker was in control

This would concern me had we been up against weak opposition, but I feel a lot of the inactivity in the final third was down to the quality of the defence we were up against. I would still like to get those flanks more involved though, Wingers are the next experiment I reckon.

I have included this picture to show just how much control my Playmaker had over our passing. A near 90% completion rate and well over double the quantity of any other player just shows how involved and accurate he was, and he's nowhere near first choice in this position. Encouraging signs for the tactic, i'd say.

The Heat Map/Average Positions

This is very interesting indeed:

• I think the depth of my back line and Central Midfielder on Defend duty can be put down to the strength of the opposition's attacking play and how pinned back we were at times.
  
• As for the RB, he's a youth player with terrible positioning so that might account for his poor average position; I noticed him getting caught out time after time.
  
• It's interesting to note how much further forward we were able to get in the second half after both teams had made substitutions. Once again, Bozkurt (19) seemed to lead the line much better than Noel (3).
  
• I am very surprised at how high up the pitch Schibany (8) averaged out. He seemed to regularly drop deep and link up play. The reverse is true of Kerschbaumer (9) who was definitely an influence going forward but averaged out much deeper than expected.
  

I can only assume that these average positions have been effected by the strength of the opposition, their formation (which gave us big problems) and the fact they had us pinned back for much of the first hour.

CONCLUSIONS

So after another in depth analysis of the 4-4-1-1 formation, I have come to the following conclusions:

• The Advanced Playmaker is definitely the right role in the AMC position, i'll be keeping that. I was pleased with his involvement and how he managed to make the passing much more meaningful.
  
• My flanks are still a bit touch and go, but this match wasn't a fair test for my right side with such a poor player at RB. That said, I am still yet to test Wingers in this role.
  
• With this formation lacking a player at DMC, we can be very weak through the middle and I was punished this time by the CB rushing out. I can think of a couple of solutions but the ones that would perhaps work the best would be a narrower shape and changing the roles around in midfield again; perhaps with the Central Midfielder on Attack duty reverting to Support and the Advanced Playmaker on Support changing to Attack. I am wary of the knock on effects this may have though, so i'll be careful about this change.

All in all, an interesting match that has thrown up problems but also given the tactic a spark it lacked in the previous outing. Much work ahead, but steps made in the right direction. The next post should be an analysis of the second game using my 4-1-4-1 formation. Thanks again for reading.

[felley]

REPLACING THE COGS, NOT THE MACHINE 2 – MINOR CHANGES TO THE 4-1-4-1 TACTIC

Same drill with this tactic as the other one. I needed to adjust something, but not make wholesale changes. The match I will be using the revised version of the formation in will be against Legia Warsaw – another stern test akin to Basel. Once again, I don't want to draw too many conclusions but there will be undoubtedly things that I find useful from this tactic's second outing.

THE CHANGES

Once again, i'll start off with roles and fluidity. Any specific Team or Player Instructions might make things a bit too complicated for now. You may notice that i've made some rather bold changes down the flanks so here is my logic:

• First of all I have made almost identical changes as I did with the other tactic by bringing in a Playmaker and lowering the fluidity setting to account for this.
  
• Secondly I have made some big changes on the flanks by setting both my FB's to Attack duty and scrapping the Wide Midfielders altogether. I am hoping Wingers might provide the spark i'm looking for down the flanks; opening up spaces with their direct running and getting that overlap functioning properly.
  
• Finally, I have switched around the roles in midfield with my Central Midfielder on Support duty switching to Defend, and my Defensive Midfielder on Defend duty switching to Support. I am hoping this will encourage more movement between my two banks of four, as well as encouraging the tracking of players.
  

THE MATCH

It's nice to chalk up my first win as St. Polten manager, but it's only pre-season and i'm hoping that further analysis will show that my tactic is still a little way of completion. Despite the positives and the 2-1 scoreline, I noticed a few things that concerned me during the match. Once again, fitness was a bit of an issue but I managed to get a starting eleven that is easily possible during the season. I don't think there were many particular phases of play to analyse with screen caps this time, so I'll just pick out a few.

The wing play was terrific in the first half, particularly down the right flank. My Full Backs on Attack duty were overlapping a lot, both on the inside and outside of the Wingers, causing many problems for the opposition. Legia actually set up with a 3-5-2/5-3-2 formation with Wing Backs which I think gave us an even greater edge. However, I feel we could've made much better of these chances. The first couple of screen caps illustrate a problem I was having with the crossing:

After some great combination play down the right side, Ambichi is finally afforded some space with the RB dragging their LB inside. With all that space ahead of him and only one man against three in the box, I feel he could've really improved the opportunity by driving forward into the space. I have a couple of important things to point out that contribute to this wasted chance:

• Ambichi is a Winger on Support duty so he is more likely to cross as soon as he finds himself in space in the final third. I feel the overall combination of the two flank roles was good, so I may have to remove the Team Instruction: Drill Crosses to encourage the players to wait a little longer for the cross.
  
• I have to admit, even if Ambichi had driven forward, my ST doesn't have much of a chance against so many defenders. Further to this, the two players you see on the left are my Playmaker and DMC. I found my Defensive Midfielder on Support duty was actually much more involved that my Central Midfielder on Defend duty; i'm not sure if this combination of roles actually works well. They are perhaps a little far behind to make up the numbers in the box.
  

Seems like i've got the overlap working. Holzmann (the LB), overlaps the winger and receives the ball in a dangerous position. He actually launches it out of play just past the goal. You'll probably have noticed the annotations on this pic, it's because I have quite a few points to make:

• As this is just one example of a few crosses from the Full Backs in similar positions, I feel I may have to apply the Player Instruction: Cross From Byline. My team are already encourage to dribble and overlap, so coupled with removing the Drill Crosses TI, this may be the final piece of the puzzle in terms of the FB's crossing from more advanced positions.
  
• I actually have four potential targets for the cross ready to move into the box should Holzmann work himself into a better position, so this is encouraging.
  
• On the left side of the picture, you will notice my CM(d) and DMC. When attacking, the DMC was virtually always ahead of the CD(d), when defending they both shielded the back four. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I feel we could be more aggressive through the centre.
  
• The opposition's entire team is within the blue polygon I have outlined. This is interesting as it tells me they were maybe operating very deep and/or very narrow. To take advantage of these situations, I could employ a more direct game in the hope that my team would switch the ball further to take advantage of the men in space.
  
• Although he is supported closely my the AP(a) and the W(s), my Striker is still perhaps a little behind the play and could maybe make more of an impact on the shoulder of the last defender. I have considered an Advanced Forward, but I wouldn't want it to detract from his involvement in the build-up play. It's at least worth noting.
  
• 
  

[felley]

My first goal actually comes from some excellent interplay in a central position. I was both pleased and surprised as we had been crowded out many times through the middle up until this point:

Hofbauer receives the ball from Jano (the Central Midfielder on Defend duty) just as Kerschbaumer (my Advanced Playmaker on Attack duty) makes a forward run into a narrow central channel.

Kerschbaumer adjusts his body with some great agility and plays it first time to Schibany who is heading for the space.

Schibany almost can't miss, but still executes the finish with style deceiving the keeper by switching to his right foot and tapping it in. All in all, a very good goal. I can analyse it by mentioning the following points:

• As with the 4-4-1-1 formation, the Advanced Playmaker is key again. This was just one of many times he found himself space and formed excellent passing lines with his triangular positioning.
  
• Contrary to my earlier point about considering an Advanced Forward, Schibany actually pulls off some excellent movement here, starting from deep and attacking the space.
  

A couple of final things to note before I move onto the stats. In the second half, Legia switched to a 4-4-2 and unsurprisingly started to gain more influence and stability down the flanks. They seemed more dangerous because of this but we managed to hold out. Their goal came from a throw in and a shot from a ridiculous angle, awesome finish. My second goal was in the same vain, being worked from a throw in down the right side and being finished with a thunderous drive from my LB who found himself up front. I didn't cover these goals in detail as I feel the marking on both teams could easily be down to unfamiliarity with the tactic/team mates.

THE STATS AND WHAT THEY SHOW

I only have one picture to show here as I feel it is most revealing regarding the roles I chose for my players:

The Heat Map/Average Positions

Here we see the following things in action:

• My Advanced Playmaker on Attack duty (2) is certainly getting involved higher up the pitch but is more involved on the right side due to his starting position.
  
• My Central Midfielder on Defend duty (9) is sitting very deep, making the formation more of a 4-4-1-1. It made us strong through the middle when defending, but I felt there was a lack of support going forward. May have to revert the roles here.
  
• I am pleased with the positioning of my back four. The LB averaged out further forward than the RB due to him playing the last 15 minutes at LM.
  
• The Wingers could perhaps be a little further forward, though removing the “Drill Crosses “ Team Instruction may help here.
  
• The knock on effect of having deeper Wing play and a deeper Central Midfielder is the isolation of my Striker. Something even more pronounced with Bozkurt (16) who is less mobile than Schibany (3).
  
• 
  

CONCLUSIONS

So after the second outing of the 4-1-4-1 formation, I have come to a few overall conclusions:

• The Playmaker and drop in fluidity were the correct choices as once again it gave us a focal point of our attacking moves; handing over control to a player with more natural Flair and Creativity.
  
• The flank play was much more stable as we regularly denied opportunities with good marking/positioning as well as creating opportunities further forward.
  
• I feel the biggest mistake was the change of roles through the middle. I will be looking to change the Central Midfielder on Defend duty back to a Support duty or maybe even switch to an Attack duty.
  
• Supplementary to the above point, I will be changing my DMC back to a Defensive Midfielder on Defend duty. I felt he didn't need to be involved higher up the pitch and I don't have a player in this strata that I can really thrust further upfield.
  
• I am hoping the isolation of the striker will be solved by changing the roles elsewhere, but I may consider another role such as a Defensive Forward. Despite my concerns about perhaps needing an Advanced Forward, Schibany in particular was more effective when running from deep.
  
• I will be adding the “Cross From Byline” Player Instruction to my Full Backs and removing the “Drill Crosses” Team Instruction. I am hoping the effect here will be two-fold, with supporting players having time to get forward and crosses being more effective when drilled.
  

[jamez_b]

Great thread felley, loving the detail. Just to offer you an insight into what i'd be trying after those 3 games, have you maybe thought of a bit more of a lopsided formation, i.e. moving the M L to AM L and play him as an inside forward - support/Attack? Might give your striker a bit more support and fill that gap on your heat map between number 10 and number 3? What would you say your ideal "shape" you'd like to see on the heat map?

[felley]

Hi guys. I'm aware that i'm bumping a 2 month old thread back into the mixer, but I feel I have some loose ends to tie up regarding where I ended up with the project.

So I was far too busy to get any more proper analysis together, but I have managed to get really into the save. After spending many hours dissecting the above tactics, I eventually came to the conclusion that there was something missing from what I was trying to do. Although I had set things out in an almost mathematical way - accounting for all sorts of scenarios - I hadn't even considered an "ideal" way in which I wanted the players to play. I found this was both confusing me and limiting my enjoyment at times as it felt like I could just continue to tweak forever, without ever arriving at a destination.

My revelation was that I should fuse my old style - based on my own football preconceptions - with the logic and calmness (80% of the time ) I had inherited over the course of this project. That way i'm getting the enjoyment without anywhere near as much confusion and/or anger.

Anyway, I looked through my players again, checked where I had depth, and developed a system that would play much how I had set up my Burnley team on the first FM I owned (FM11) - i.e. the first time I remember really feeling like I was a tactical genius. I won the league with 3 games to spare with plucky old SKN St. Pölten (predicted 5th), using a mixture of my desired tactical setup and the one's outlined above. I'm currently re-designing my system once again as my team are now one of the favourites for the drop in the Premier Division. It's not going too badly. 10 points from the first 7 games with many a conceded goal down to some shocking defensive errors that I felt have been caused by a combination of new faces, new tactics and nervousness. Iron them out and it could be glory all over again (although maybe next year!).

Anyway, that's enough of me rambling. Let me know if you want to see my current setup. I'm always one for a second opinion.

[RTHerringbone]

I would 100% like to see it. This was probably the best presented thread of FM14 so I'd love to see more

[felley]

RTHerringbone, I believe you are being far too kind there! Thank you, of course. Here's a snapshot of how things ended up:

This is the final version of my 4-1-4-1 tactic. Nothing too wild here. I ditched the playmaker as I found many of my midfielders/defenders to be creatively able, so I bumped the fluidity back up to share the job of chance creation across the team. Great tactic when I needed width, but the truth is that I was very short in the ML/R slots and an injury or two would render the tactic useless. As you can see, I got rid of all the TI's apart from Drill Crosses which I kept due to my fast, short forwards. I also added some PI's which are as follows:

CF(s) - Hold Position - I wasn't sure about this at first, but it was sometimes vital in creating that extra bit of space for the advancing midfielders to exploit. My striker made a nuisance of himself along the backline yet still dropped back intermittently. A proper handful for the centre backs.

WM(s) - Cut Inside With Ball - Took this one off when it didn't work, but I sometimes needed it to force the overlap/link up with the central midfielders.

CM(a), W(a) and both CD(d) - More Direct Passes - Added to give a little more variety to the build up play more as a personal preference. I don't like it when my team is uselessly knocking the ball around without any penetration. In the case of the centre backs its use is two-fold; they were good passers of the ball and it allowed for a bit of clearing the lines in a mentality that is otherwise focused on retaining possession/shape.

CM(s) - Dribble More - May seem a little odd to give this to a supporting player, but again I wanted unpredictability wherever possible, so a combination of fluid movement, shared creative responsibility, varied passing range and tempo was what I felt would best put the opposition under maximum pressure with the resources at my disposal. Nothing flashy or groundbreaking.

I should add that I ditched the AMC variant of my two formations (the 4-4-1-1) because I found it far too unstable defensively. I'm sure there's a way to get it working but I gave up in the end and went instead for the return of my classic Burnley formation...

Keeping with the theme, I opted to remove specialist roles and keep things very fluid (my Burnley one used a DLP, Anchor Man and occasionally a Poacher). This style ultimately suits my squad so I may as well stick with what works. The PI's in use are as follows:

DLF(s) - Move Into Channels, Roam From Position - Pretty self explanatory here. I like to have one of my strikers to use his movement to create space for other players. The result is two fold as he regularly finds himself in space to finish a move after invariably playing a part further down the pitch.

AM(a), CM(a) and both CD(d) - More Direct Passes - For the same reasons outlined on the other tactic; to add variety to the build up play and clear the lines when necessary.

CM(s) - Dribble More - Again, for the same reasons as above.

WB(s) - Cross Less Often - Both a response to having no viable players with good crossing at RB and to try an encourage more of a supporting role for the midfield.

And that's it for my tactics last season. I would estimate that I played the 4-1-2-1-2 for about 70% of the games, switching to the 4-1-4-1 if I required width or needed to be more difficult to play through. I'll upload my current Premier Division setup tomorrow. Should probably go to bed as my alarm will be going off in about 7 hours!

[isignedupfornorealreason]

A great shame the 4-4-1-1 didn't work out. Did pushing higher up not help at all?

[felley]

I did exactly that, but the problem I then faced was my relatively weak CB's. Pushing higher up is great for reducing the space but with 4 at the back and no DM, it tended to expose my CB's to a level of play they weren't capable of. My best CB was actually a RB that had re-trained as a CB.

Like I said, there must be ways to make the tactic work for the team, but I had a change of heart and stuck with the new direction. Once the 4-1-2-1-2 started producing solid performances, I was completely sold on it. The 4-4-1-1 made maybe 3 appearances all season in the end.

[Petros7]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading the analysis of your tactical set up and reasons for making the changes you did. I feel inspired to start a new game before FM15 comes out and try to build from scratch a couple of tactics with an unfamiliar side and see where it takes me.

I also like to use the very fluid mentality and keeping it as simple as possible, but I aslo feel that is a good starting point to react to opposition changes during a match too.

[felley]

Glad I could inspire you! I'm really into very fluid tactics. I find them to be very useful at all levels, despite the common conception being that you should be more rigid the further down the leagues you play. It's true that very fluid mentality structure tend to ask the defenders to get involved more (not ideal in the Conference North/South!) but a few carefully used PI's can negate these problems in my opinion.

I'm not sure where I read it but someone on this forum gave out some great advice a few months ago that was along the lines of "I guess you're just a very fluid manager; you prefer to hand over the reins to your players and only tweak if necessary". For me, this simple sentence was exactly what I needed to hear to give me that kick into tactic creation again. I think it's quite easy to be bewildered by all the advice you can find out there at times, but if you just adhere to your own ideas and principles, whilst taking on the mantra of patience/openness to analysis, you can't really fail. Even if you don't win trophies every season, your team will be playing how you envisaged and you will be far better placed to dissect any problems you're having.

[felley]

As per RTHerringbone's request the other day, this is my current tactical setup - or at least an overview of my current line of thinking (sorry to anyone who recently started reading this thread as it has sort of strayed off course from it's original agenda!):

Now I know the first thoughts are going to be "unbalanced" and "isolated atackers" but I shall explain how and why I have come to the current selection of roles and duties. Originally I had used a Complete Forward on Support duty and an Attacking Midfielder on Attack duty. I had also knocked the fluidity down to fluid and added the TI "Be More Disciplined" in an attempt to rein in some creative freedom from the defenders so they stayed organised. I also started with a Defensive mentality.

The combination of these settings lead to me having two blocks of players at opposite ends of the pitch with not much in-between to connect things together, so I decided to take the extremes out of the settings whilst still trying to produce a similar result. I wanted to play on the counter as I felt my fast and technically gifted players up front could hurt teams if they could find space in a dangerous area. The idea is that the block of 6 players at the back sit and try to draw the opposition forward, before exploiting the space hopefully created on the flanks/in the hole/in the channels.

So i'll give you all some reasoning as to my choices of role/duty:

Target Man - Attack - Perhaps the most incongruous of the roles in this set up. On the surface it perhaps seems too aggressive but I have a preference for keeping the back line occupied as I feel a great source of goals can be opposition mistakes (be that true mistakes as noted by the game or a lack of concentration/loss of possession that leads to a chance and a goal). I have added the PI "Hold Position" in order to enhance this effect by making sure the Target Man stays up top and gives the AMC room to move into. I have also managed to get my hands on a tall, strong forward who is ideal in this role. When he isn't playing, I will use an Advanced Forward or a Complete Forward on Attack.

Shadow Striker - So my reasoning here has two main facets; I want a partner for the Target Man that is a goalscoring threat in his own right, as well as a player that is willing to harass the opposition and pressure them into mistakes. A Shadow Striker is perfect in that respect and is also not averse to tracking back and forming a midfield triangle when defending. The PI "Ease Off Tackles" is added for those players who are hopeless at tackling and pick up needless yellow cards. I also switch to Attacking Midfielder on Attack duty when I play an AMC with less of a goal threat.

Wingers - Attack - Both wings are set up the same as I want the support for the forwards to come mainly from out wide and in the channels as I feel they have the central area to drag players around. The attack duty gives the wingers a presence in the box as well should the space open up.

Defensive Midfielder - Defend - This player simply operates as the true holder in the pair and aims to destroy things immediately ahead of the back line. The defend duty means he stands off and keeps our shape compact through the middle.

Defensive Midfielder - Support - I have tried to recreate a sort of Regista here, but one that won't take on a true Playmaking role and demand the ball too often. I have a couple technically able players for DMC and I felt the tactic needed at least some support through the middle as the attackers could become isolated. To these ends I added the PI "Get Further Forward" which is working wonders as he regularly steps up into the CM/AMC strata and helps us push forward quickly when countering.

Full Backs - Support - Felt I needed a very simple role in this position. It's a bit of a shame as I do have some good options on the left side with both of my LB's very capable attackers, but I felt the movement needed to come from the midfield strata in order to make the counter attacks faster.

Central Defenders - Defend - Simple centre back partnership. My favourite of the lot! Just a couple of lads through the middle who's main job is to contain the opposition strikers and defend the box. I have managed to improve this part of the team, but I still consider it a weak area compared to the rest of the squad - hence the very conservative midfield setup ahead of them. Needs must!

So that's where i'm at right now. Favourites for relegation but with 10 points from the opening 8 games and a +2 GD (13 scored - just one shy of joint best in the league). I'm open to suggestions and tweaks from you lot as always. Thanks again for reading and allowing me to divert the thread somewhat!

[Deathjester99]

I just wanted to say: Fantastic read. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and efforts!