SIMPLICITY - How to make a SOLID & SIMPLE 4-4-2 set

[crouchaldinho]

you said that your tactics are different from templates in TT&F. have you ever tried to compare them? i guess not, cuz i did. no major changes

Are you blind?

I already gave you a list of ways in which the instructions suggested on this thread are different to the TT&F recommended settings. Do you really want me to repeat myself? Even the most cursory glance at the closing down settings, marking settings, player instructions or passing settings, for instance, would reveal a difference.

You are obviously just trolling and hoping for a reaction.

I do not value your opinion and therefore I have nothing more to say.

C.

[heathxxx]

VinnyliciouS - If you've nothing constructive to add, then please don't add anything at all. When you've taken the time to post as detailed threads on tactics in the forum as crouchaldinho and others have, then you may feel obliged to offer constructive criticism and observations. As it is, you've neither posted anything marvellous yourself or offered anything constructive. Please think before you post as this definately isn't the place for arrogant and argumentitive posting.

[VinnyliciouS]

oh boy, i woke up the beast:rolleyes:

please accept my public apology

[charleymcfarley]

Hey guys

Okay, I'm on the brink of giving up with this stupid game.

I'm giving it my first shot (long after its release) and playing Chelmsford in the latest patch. Im now in Season 4 (about 15 games in) and still in BSS after a string of near misses and let downs. I've been using the tactics described here for just over a season now, starting midway through last seasons terrible form. My only changes have been to cut out a few forward runs and a little closing down from my midfielders, who just cant handle work load otherwise.

What's currently driving me crazy - really crazy - is that I appear to have one of the best squads in the division, I dominate game after game, and draw (or lose) game after game. I've tried:

- the attacking variant - i dominate games and make loads of chances then concede 1/2 goals per game on the break, usually resulting in a draw

- balanced variant - dominate posession, make fewer chance but give fewer away, and draw loads of games that it looks like i should win

- defensive - lose 1-0, or draw 0-0

My players have decent stats (for BSS) and my coaches tell me they are decent players /leading stars in League 2 (and above in some cases). My board expect me to win the league. I'm favourite according to the bookies going into almost every game. At the end of every game I get told "Player X will feel he could have won the game" or "Opposition will take that!". Every post match press review says "Chelmsford miss the chance to win", except on those few ocassions where i do win.

Im currently 9th in BSS having W 4 D 8 L 2

And nothing I do, no tweaks i make, seem to make any difference. Every now and again I tweak and win 2 games on the trot, then its as if the AI just clicks in and absolutely perfectly counters whatever I'm doing and its back to the pattern described above. Dominate game - often take the lead - concede 1/2 goals from only 1/2 attacks against me. If I throw people forward I concede a goal. If i try to shut up shop as the AI throws people up against me I concede a goal.

What seems really perverse is that as my squads gets better, my league position gets worse, not better. I'm just totally confused.

Can anyone tell me what I'm missing? I dont expect to win every game, but I think my current squad should be easily a play off outfit and I'm following the perfectly sensible tactical advice set out in this thread, but to absolutely no end result.

Any suggestions welcome, before I get so frustrated I smash up my PC with an axe!

Cheers

Charley

[crouchaldinho]

What exactly have you altered in terms of forward runs? That could be part of the problem.

Why don't you have a quick look at my 4-4-1-1 thread. There is a 4-4-2 available to download there and you might find it worthwhile to try that or have a look at it and see if you can take anything from it.

The only thoughts I have at the moment are regarding your team talks and team gelling. If you have brought in a lot of new players, they may be struggling to gel. The other thing is that you seem to be tweaking an awful lot. It may be worth starting from scratch, simplifying things and seeing how you go from there.

It's difficult to suggest anything else at the moment without more details.

C.

[SJ234]

Do you have any advice on how I could set my team up to defend corners and crosses?

[crouchaldinho]

First page, post 9.

C.

[SJ234]

Thanks:thup:, what is your oppinion of using a playmaker and targetman with this 4-4-2?

[axehan1]

Hey guys

Okay, I'm on the brink of giving up with this stupid game.

I'm giving it my first shot (long after its release) and playing Chelmsford in the latest patch. Im now in Season 4 (about 15 games in) and still in BSS after a string of near misses and let downs. I've been using the tactics described here for just over a season now, starting midway through last seasons terrible form. My only changes have been to cut out a few forward runs and a little closing down from my midfielders, who just cant handle work load otherwise.

What's currently driving me crazy - really crazy - is that I appear to have one of the best squads in the division, I dominate game after game, and draw (or lose) game after game. I've tried:

- the attacking variant - i dominate games and make loads of chances then concede 1/2 goals per game on the break, usually resulting in a draw

- balanced variant - dominate posession, make fewer chance but give fewer away, and draw loads of games that it looks like i should win

- defensive - lose 1-0, or draw 0-0

My players have decent stats (for BSS) and my coaches tell me they are decent players /leading stars in League 2 (and above in some cases). My board expect me to win the league. I'm favourite according to the bookies going into almost every game. At the end of every game I get told "Player X will feel he could have won the game" or "Opposition will take that!". Every post match press review says "Chelmsford miss the chance to win", except on those few ocassions where i do win.

Im currently 9th in BSS having W 4 D 8 L 2

And nothing I do, no tweaks i make, seem to make any difference. Every now and again I tweak and win 2 games on the trot, then its as if the AI just clicks in and absolutely perfectly counters whatever I'm doing and its back to the pattern described above. Dominate game - often take the lead - concede 1/2 goals from only 1/2 attacks against me. If I throw people forward I concede a goal. If i try to shut up shop as the AI throws people up against me I concede a goal.

What seems really perverse is that as my squads gets better, my league position gets worse, not better. I'm just totally confused.

Can anyone tell me what I'm missing? I dont expect to win every game, but I think my current squad should be easily a play off outfit and I'm following the perfectly sensible tactical advice set out in this thread, but to absolutely no end result.

Any suggestions welcome, before I get so frustrated I smash up my PC with an axe!

Cheers

Charley

sounds like you should be concentrating on the attacking tactic mate,dont forget if you are favourite to win the league all teams will park the preverbial bus in front of goal and look to hit you on the counter attack which sound like what is happening.do you have fastish defenders?because they will be needed for a high defensive line.extra width play down the flanks.also pay attention to yor scout report becauselots of info is there for you.i also find during a game to pause like in 15 minute increments and check the other teams motivation.find out who is playing with confidence or is fired up and possibly mark him out of the game.i have found this very effective in games if you check 15 minutes later you would probably find that he is less effective.

how do you play your strikers,i am finding it easier if i give my deep lying fc a decent amount of cf so that he can find space for himself and my main striker is on fw/mixed,rwb/mixed(unless he has good dribbling stats)and everything else rare so that he doesnt stray away from the penalty box.

lastly if your getting hit on the break you might want to take fwr from often to mixed off your full backs.

[charleymcfarley]

Guys

Thanks very much for the suggestions given above.

Today I played through the rest of the season and just promoted via the playoffs - I'm delighted! In particular as I came back from losing the first leg 2-0 with a 5-1 demolition of (how I hate them) Staines.

Final league record was: W23 D12 L7, which clearly shows that I resolved my "draw all the time problem".

I corrected two (thanks to advice received) which were:

- returning runs/closing down to orignal levels for midfielders

- reducing the attacking mentality of a few players here and there (which I had upped to compensate for switching off runs)

Doesnt seem like much, but the difference has been huge. I think I stopped the players over committing from the back and hence cut out a few goals. And with the runs forward back on we started getting more goals from wide and cross from wide. Also, the combination of these things meant the forwards "joined up" more with the midfielders and made everything tick much better. All combined, it made the difference in game after game. Sure, my midfielders kept hitting 70% at around the hour mark (apart from a couple of "beasts" who could handle it) but I just rotated and used the subs.

Oh, and signing the lovely Robert Mak on a free didnt do any harm either. He might look like total rubbish to you Man Utd managers, but believe me pace 15 acceleration 15 for a BSS striker is almost unstoppable.

Thanks muchly for all suggestions. Bring on next season!

Charley

[ottey_swe]

You deserve every credit for this guide Crouchaldinho. Making a simple, "back-to-basics" tactic in a pretty messy interface is a thing I believe will help many frustrated FM:ers who have got stuck. Personally, the tactics itself (or maybe I should say the tactics interface) is my main gripe with this game. The game doesn't need to get much easier, the tactics section just needs simplification for FM10. However, you've done an excellent work in simplifying tactics in the current interface.

You're thoughts regarding individual closing down & passing has helped me in particular. Thank you!

[CentralTen]

Well my luck has turned, somewhat. I've begun to win games more regularly, taking vital points in my home matches.

But I'm still pretty much helpless in away games against moderately strong teams. Like before, my away tactics work best against teams like Liverpool and Chelsea, who completely dominate the game. But employing the same tactics against teams like Everton and Aston Villa just doesn't work.

I've tried useing my moderate and even my attacking formations in away games against these teams, but to little effect. I've also experimented with making my normal formation slighly more defensive, employing counter attack and a deeper D-line, but the difference was marginal. My most prominent problem in these games is a leaky defence and a lack of goal scoring chances.

Any advice? Any help on how to defend against stronger opponents away from home would be particularly usefull.

[twattyatkins]

Crouchaldinho

I'm just setting up a new game and I am following your tactics set up step by step, but in the 'Attacking: Tempo & passing' section it dosen't say how full backs and wingers are set up passing wise, can you help?

[vasilli07]

I set up attacking using mixed(10) passing

[Finknottle]

Hello, Crouchaldinho. After some time away from the pc, I've managed to sort it out and have got back to the game. I decided to go back to an old 4-2-3-1 system for the new save. Like a lot of people have found, the setting of the lone striker, the AMC and the MCa are causing a few problems. Setting them according to TT&F doesn't seem to work out somehow. I have just set my lone striker as an FCd but with forward runs, hoping to get him into the penalty area. My AMC and my two wingers have the same mentality, 6 in the defensive mode, 11 in standard mode and 16 in attack mode. I have the AMC on rare forward runs and low, 5 for creative freedom. By doing this, I hope that he will keep to what I want him to do. That is work the area of the pitch in the central area fro the halfway line to the opposing penalty area, approximately.

I have not bought in any players at all and my up to date situation with Hull City is thus. P 11. W 5. D 1. L 5. F 18. A 22. Pts 16. Pos 10th. At home I have won four and drawn one, 1-1 v Liverpool and lost one, 2-4 v Man. City, conceding three "oggies", no less! Away is not good. Won one and lost four. My Ass. man. says that overall we have the squad to possibly stay up but we are weakest in goal. He says that the team is gelling well and that morale is good.

Make what you and others will about my system. Any and all assistance is always welcome. I feel that a sometimes adverse comments can lead to answers to previously unsolved problems. Kind regards to all, as usual.

[skimmerman]

Hi Crouchaldinho, i am a fan of your tactics so i thought i would make the big step and make my own from your excellent guide. One question though, what instructions do you give to your GK. I notice that my own GK wastes alot of passes, so should i put defender collects. My GK is Radek Cerny and he has a pass rate of 34% which i dont think is very good.

[elland road boo boys]

Hi Crouchaldino.

Just to say what an excellent post!!!!

Can you give me some help I am creating a 5-3-2 formation with wingbacks acting as wingers with 3 centrebacks in the formation.

I remember reading in your post that how you set your 4-4-2 instuctions will work for any 2 striker formation so was wondering how you would set this up?

I hope you like a challenge!!

[crouchaldinho]

Hello,

I've only created 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 variations on FM, as I tend to stick with back fours and I don't know a lot about 5-3-2/3-5-2 formations. However, I will certainly try to assist where possible.

Let me know what it is that you need help with and I will try to advise if I can.

Regards,

C.

[elland road boo boys]

Hello,

I've only created 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 variations on FM, as I tend to stick with back fours and I don't know a lot about 5-3-2/3-5-2 formations. However, I will certainly try to assist where possible.

Let me know what it is that you need help with and I will try to advise if I can.

Regards,

C.

Hi Crouchaldino,

Was just wondering about 5 Defence, 5 Attack Rule. It would seem that that the 3 DC's and both wingers would have to play in the Defensive Unit (with one of the DC's playing as a DMC), therefore leaving the 2 Fullbacks, AMC, & 2 Strikers as the Attack Force. Does that sound realistic or, would you set about doing it differently?

[crouchaldinho]

I don't think you can really apply the same rules from the 4-4-2 to the 5-3-2 type formation.

Essentially, your central defenders will be defensive across the tactics. The wingbacks are key to this formation though and they will be more attacking (forward runs often) in attacking tactics to provide width, and more defensive (forward runs mixed) in the more defensive tactics to provide defensive cover. In the midfield, I'd probably have one MCd type player adding a bit of stability and covering. Then I guess your other MC would be more attacking and form the main attacking unit with your AM and STs.

Does that sound about right for how you want it to work?

C.

[elland road boo boys]

I don't think you can really apply the same rules from the 4-4-2 to the 5-3-2 type formation.

Essentially, your central defenders will be defensive across the tactics. The wingbacks are key to this formation though and they will be more attacking (forward runs often) in attacking tactics to provide width, and more defensive (forward runs mixed) in the more defensive tactics to provide defensive cover. In the midfield, I'd probably have one MCd type player adding a bit of stability and covering. Then I guess your other MC would be more attacking and form the main attacking unit with your AM and STs.

Does that sound about right for how you want it to work?

C.

Yes that sounds fine, but was wondering if you could still employ wingers in that formation.

I was thinking pretty much along those lines but for the midfield a DMC in the middle of formation with the 2 outside set as wingers with FWR mixed, Cross Ball often with Zonal & Tight Marking with fairly high closing down, or even with a AMC in the middle, with the middle of the Defence showing either as a Sweeper or DMC.

[crouchaldinho]

Yes that sounds fine, but was wondering if you could still employ wingers in that formation.

I was thinking pretty much along those lines but for the midfield a DMC in the middle of formation with the 2 outside set as wingers with FWR mixed, Cross Ball often with Zonal & Tight Marking with fairly high closing down, or even with a AMC in the middle, with the middle of the Defence showing either as a Sweeper or DMC.

In that case, what I would probably do is build a 3-4-1-2 formation.

Check this link: http://www.football-lineups.com/tactic/3-4-1-2

It provides a kind of natural balance to the team.

Three defenders, with two central midfielders operating as defensive holding players.

Then you have the two wide players who, again, will probably need to be more defensive in counter-attacking tactics (mixed forward runs) and more attacking in attacking tactics (often forward runs).

Then you have either another central midfielder with forward runs often, or an attacking midfielder with mixed forward runs, behind the two strikers. I'd probably opt for the latter.

I'd probably use rule of one mentality split, working from the DCs to the STs as follows:

GK

DC, DC, DC +1

MC, MC +1

MR/ML +1

AMC +1

ST, ST +1 (configure in FCd and FCa if desired)

That's probably what I would go for.

Let me know how you get on,

C.

[crouchaldinho]

P.S. Do you play in a division with a lot of sides playing lone striker formations or are they mostly 4-4-2?

[elland road boo boys]

P.S. Do you play in a division with a lot of sides playing lone striker formations or are they mostly 4-4-2?

Mostly 4-4-2;)

[crouchaldinho]

Could do really well with the 3-4-1-2 then, although you have to be weary of attacking 4-4-2 formations with the fullbacks overlapping as obviously you have a disadvantage in the wide positions then. Probably use global zonal marking for the whole tactics set.

Has any of this helped?

C.

[elland road boo boys]

Could do really well with the 3-4-1-2 then, although you have to be weary of attacking 4-4-2 formations with the fullbacks overlapping as obviously you have a disadvantage in the wide positions then. Probably use global zonal marking for the whole tactics set.

Has any of this helped?

C.

Massive Help, Many Thanks.

Just a question though. Going back to 5-3-2 (Which could be the System Without any changes!!!) if I set up as Wingbacks (FWR Often Cross Ball Often Zonal Tight Marking) the 3 DC's as a Defensive Unit (Zonal Marking No FWR) & the Midfield as 2 Wingers (FWR Mixed Cross Ball Mixed Zonal Tight Marking) and a AMC (FWR Mixed High Closing Down RWB Mixed) wouldn't this be the same sort of setup as 3-4-1-2 or should I alter the player instructions to make the Midfield tighter?

The only reason I am favouring the 5-3-2 is it adapts to any other formation the AI throws at you

[crouchaldinho]

You've lost me a little bit there.

5-3-2 with DC DC DC / WBR WBL / AMR AMC AML / FC FC - is that what you are saying?

I wouldn't advise it as you have no presence at all in the middle of the park!

Or am I misunderstanding you?

[elland road boo boys]

You've lost me a little bit there.

5-3-2 with DC DC DC / WBR WBL / AMR AMC AML / FC FC - is that what you are saying?

I wouldn't advise it as you have no presence at all in the middle of the park!

Or am I misunderstanding you?

No you are not thats spot on. I was wondering if you put enough pressure on the midfield with tight zonal marking and high closing down would that work with the AMC AMR AML on mixed FWR

[crouchaldinho]

Personally, I think you'd really struggle using a formation like that. You've got nobody in central midfield which is the key and most influential area of the pitch.

I've not really tried anything like it before. The closest I have come is playing midfielders between the lines (i.e. DMs and AMCs). That's quite effective because you always have somebody 'filling' that central midfield space and DMs pick up and mark any attacking midfield players. With your formation, you'll end up allowing the opposition time on the ball in a central position, which is will be really dangerous. When they attack, they'll come forward with with the wingers pushed up and two midfielders in space, not to mention overlapping fullbacks. They will totally overwhelm your defence.

For 5-3-2, I'd be looking at: DC DC DC / WBR WBL / MC MC MC / FC FC - perhaps using an AMC instead of one of the central players.

For 3-5-2, I'd be looking at: DC DC DC / MR MC MC ML / AMC / FC FC - in other words, the 3-4-1-2.

I'd be quite tempted to make up a set of defensive versions with the 5-3-2 and a set of attacking versions with the 3-4-1-2.

[elland road boo boys]

Personally, I think you'd really struggle using a formation like that. You've got nobody in central midfield which is the key and most influential area of the pitch.

I've not really tried anything like it before. The closest I have come is playing midfielders between the lines (i.e. DMs and AMCs). That's quite effective because you always have somebody 'filling' that central midfield space and DMs pick up and mark any attacking midfield players. With your formation, you'll end up allowing the opposition time on the ball in a central position, which is will be really dangerous. When they attack, they'll come forward with with the wingers pushed up and two midfielders in space, not to mention overlapping fullbacks. They will totally overwhelm your defence.

For 5-3-2, I'd be looking at: DC DC DC / WBR WBL / MC MC MC / FC FC - perhaps using an AMC instead of one of the central players.

For 3-5-2, I'd be looking at: DC DC DC / MR MC MC ML / AMC / FC FC - in other words, the 3-4-1-2.

I'd be quite tempted to make up a set of defensive versions with the 5-3-2 and a set of attacking versions with the 3-4-1-2.

In the 5-3-2 Formation couldn't you still use Wingers as MC but then set them to MC stats?

[crouchaldinho]

Not sure what you mean there?

Could you still use a winger in the MC position and use MC settings? Is that what you mean?

[elland road boo boys]

Not sure what you mean there?

Could you still use a winger in the MC position and use MC settings? Is that what you mean?

Yes. Sorry I didn't explain myself properly.

In a 3 man midfield is it possible at all to keep a 4 man midfield at bay?

If so can you play with wingers and a AMC & change their instructions (to make the opposition work harder to break you down rather than just overpowering you).

If not is it possible to change one of the DCs instructions to help out the midfield as detailed above.

[elland road boo boys]

Hi Mr C,

After a couple of games trying to make a 5-3-2 work I gave up!!!!

Am switching to your 4-4-2 format in a new game with Leeds United.

Just a quick question as we are favourites for League One (expected to finish 1st) this year is it safe to say that most teams will look to play more defensive against us in a balanced formation?

Do match odds have any influence on your tactics?

[crouchaldinho]

Hello elland road boo boys,

Sorry to hear you couldn't get your 5-3-2 up and running.

Essentially, how the opposition play against you is mainly based on your current form and your reputation. While it's safe to say that teams will probably be more defensive against you because you are title favourites, you may find that teams are slightly more adventurous at the start of the season until you build up a good run of form.

I would expect that you would need to attack at home and counter away until you build up a good run of form. Following that, you will find that teams will start to play more and more defensively. You'll probably need to control at home and attack away.

I don't pay too much attention to match odds. I only really note them for ideas about how to approach my team talk.

For the tactical side of things, I read the scout reports and watch the matches to see what the opposition are doing.

Most of the time, you're pretty much safe attacking at home. Away games can be much more tricky affairs. Sometimes you will be countering from the start. Other times, you will be attacking to begin with but will quickly have to change to be more defensive later in the game.

The key to away games is knowing if and when to change, especially as your form is improving and sides are still ready to switch to become more attacking against you. I suggest watching the more tricky away fixtures on extended.

Try all of the time to evaluate what the AI is doing. Some examples are:

- How are they passing the ball? Is it lots of forward passes or lots of sideways and backwards passes?

- Are they wasting time or are they playing at a high tempo?

- Are they spreading wide in possession?

- What are the fullbacks doing? Are they both getting forward often and overlapping? Are they sometimes coming forward? Are they staying back nearly all of the time?

- How are the wide players operating? Are they almost playing like wingers or forwards? Do they hang back? How does the formation look when they are in possession? Do they almost look like 4-2-4 or does it look more like 4-4-2?

There are plenty of other examples. You'll get the hang pretty quickly but it does take some time. The worst mistakes are to change too often or to not change enough. You might make both mistakes at first. When it comes right, you'll be delighted with yourself though. Just take some time to study the stats and the match representation before making a definite decision. Look for clues. Also, make sure you get to good team gelling as soon as possible because things really start to pick up from there in terms of consistent performances.

Hope that helps,

C.

[elland road boo boys]

Hello elland road boo boys,

Sorry to hear you couldn't get your 5-3-2 up and running.

Essentially, how the opposition play against you is mainly based on your current form and your reputation. While it's safe to say that teams will probably be more defensive against you because you are title favourites, you may find that teams are slightly more adventurous at the start of the season until you build up a good run of form.

I would expect that you would need to attack at home and counter away until you build up a good run of form. Following that, you will find that teams will start to play more and more defensively. You'll probably need to control at home and attack away.

I don't pay too much attention to match odds. I only really note them for ideas about how to approach my team talk.

For the tactical side of things, I read the scout reports and watch the matches to see what the opposition are doing.

Most of the time, you're pretty much safe attacking at home. Away games can be much more tricky affairs. Sometimes you will be countering from the start. Other times, you will be attacking to begin with but will quickly have to change to be more defensive later in the game.

The key to away games is knowing if and when to change, especially as your form is improving and sides are still ready to switch to become more attacking against you. I suggest watching the more tricky away fixtures on extended.

Try all of the time to evaluate what the AI is doing. Some examples are:

- How are they passing the ball? Is it lots of forward passes or lots of sideways and backwards passes?

- Are they wasting time or are they playing at a high tempo?

- Are they spreading wide in possession?

- What are the fullbacks doing? Are they both getting forward often and overlapping? Are they sometimes coming forward? Are they staying back nearly all of the time?

- How are the wide players operating? Are they almost playing like wingers or forwards? Do they hang back? How does the formation look when they are in possession? Do they almost look like 4-2-4 or does it look more like 4-4-2?

There are plenty of other examples. You'll get the hang pretty quickly but it does take some time. The worst mistakes are to change too often or to not change enough. You might make both mistakes at first. When it comes right, you'll be delighted with yourself though. Just take some time to study the stats and the match representation before making a definite decision. Look for clues. Also, make sure you get to good team gelling as soon as possible because things really start to pick up from there in terms of consistent performances.

Hope that helps,

C.

Many Thanks for your time & input into what has been a fascinating post into the insight of tactics:thup:

[elland road boo boys]

Hi Crouchaldinho.

Sorry to bother you again!!!!

Can I ask you a quick question regarding Player Stats & Positions.

Regarding Player Positions I understand that anybody can play anywhere (within reason) but, can you explain the "Natural" "Accomplished" & "Competent" that come up under Player Positions.

Also I have MC in my squad with good stats for a DM but under his positions it shows as awkward. Does that mean he cannot play there?

Sorry to be a pain in the A***

[crouchaldinho]

That's fine, don't worry.

If you check the manual that comes with the game, it defines 'natural', 'accomplished', 'competent' etc.

Essentially, a natural player will be able to perform to his full ability in that particular position (other factors not considered). An accomplished player will be able to perform really well, but not to his absolute full ability, in that position. A competent player might not play so well and so on and so forth. An awkward player won't do a really good job in that position but may be okay as a short-term measure, but he won't play to his full ability.

I tend to think of this position rating as being separate from player attributes and being more about the experience and skills necessary in order to apply his attributes to that particular position.

Your MC could be trained to play at DM, and with matches there as well, he may pick up the position quicker. How quickly he will pick it up depends upon his personality (in particular his hidden versaility stat).

Hope that helps.

Regards,

C.

[elland road boo boys]

Many Thanks for the prompt reply.

So, if I read you right all players that are "natural" in a position would be best for First choice in that position (dependant on stats).

But then the question arises where what if a competent player as an example has better stats than the natural player

[crouchaldinho]

It's essentially a judgement call for the manager. A competent player could probably become accomplished in the position quite quickly anyway with games and training.

C.

[elland road boo boys]

It's essentially a judgement call for the manager. A competent player could probably become accomplished in the position quite quickly anyway with games and training.

C.

So would you take the stats over and above everything else or put thier ability in that position first:confused:

[crouchaldinho]

It really depends. I generally look for a player to be accomplished or natural in a position and then consider his attributes for that position.

Some players, I do think to myself 'oh, you would make an excellent attacking midfielder' or something like that, based on their attributes. I'd then train them and give them a little bit of match experience so that they would gain to AM position. Personally, I wouldn't play them there really regularly (unless desperate) until they are accomplished.

It's up to you to make a decision - you are the manager.

C.

[elland road boo boys]

It really depends. I generally look for a player to be accomplished or natural in a position and then consider his attributes for that position.

Some players, I do think to myself 'oh, you would make an excellent attacking midfielder' or something like that, based on their attributes. I'd then train them and give them a little bit of match experience so that they would gain to AM position. Personally, I wouldn't play them there really regularly (unless desperate) until they are accomplished.

It's up to you to make a decision - you are the manager.

C.

Just natural or accomplished how about competent or is that going too low?

[crouchaldinho]

Do you have the manual? I suggest that you read it and look at the definitions to make your own decision about it.

C.

[elland road boo boys]

Do you have the manual? I suggest that you read it and look at the definitions to make your own decision about it.

C.

I was hoping for an expert to save me reading the manual:D

Just one more question can anybody be trained into a position even if they show as ineffective

[crouchaldinho]

I was hoping for an expert to save me reading the manual:D

Just one more question can anybody be trained into a position even if they show as ineffective

The answer is yes with a but, or no with a maybe.

In theory, anyone can be trained for any position regardless of whether they are 'ineffective' or whatever. But whether or not they will pick up the position is down to their hidden personality (versatility particularly). Some players will pick up new positions quicker than others. Other players will really struggle and might not pick up the position at all.

C.

[elland road boo boys]

The answer is yes with a but, or no with a maybe.

In theory, anyone can be trained for any position regardless of whether they are 'ineffective' or whatever. But whether or not they will pick up the position is down to their hidden personality (versatility particularly). Some players will pick up new positions quicker than others. Other players will really struggle and might not pick up the position at all.

C.

It's just that I've got a young midfielder (18) whose stats are pretty good for a AMC but under positions it only shows him as a MC. Is this because of his age or that he hasn't built up the stats to play in that position

[crouchaldinho]

It's just that I've got a young midfielder (18) whose stats are pretty good for a AMC but under positions it only shows him as a MC. Is this because of his age or that he hasn't built up the stats to play in that position

I've answered this question already:

I tend to think of this the position rating as being separate from player attributes and being more about the experience and skills necessary in order to apply his attributes to that particular position.

The player in question is a central midfielder by trade. He may have good attacking stats but that doesn't make him an AMC because an AMC is a specific position on the pitch. Your player is an attack-minded MC by the sound of it.

You need to make a distinction between the DM, MC and AM positions. They are different layers of the midfield and different positions, which require different skills and experience for a player to operate in that role.

You can have an attack-minded MC, a defensive-minded MC, perhaps even a normal/balanced MC. But an attack-minded MC is not an AMC and a defensive-minded MC is not a DM.

I really suggest you read the manual that comes with the game. It clearly explains about the position ratings etc.

Hope that helps,

C.

[elland road boo boys]

I've answered this question already:

The player in question is a central midfielder by trade. He may have good attacking stats but that doesn't make him an AMC because an AMC is a specific position on the pitch. Your player is an attack-minded MC by the sound of it.

You need to make a distinction between the DM, MC and AM positions. They are different layers of the midfield and different positions, which require different skills and experience for a player to operate in that role.

You can have an attack-minded MC, a defensive-minded MC, perhaps even a normal/balanced MC. But an attack-minded MC is not an AMC and a defensive-minded MC is not a DM.

I really suggest you read the manual that comes with the game. It clearly explains about the position ratings etc.

Hope that helps,

C.

I have read the manual but I did not understand the different aspects of the MC. I assumed that they would be trained into relevant positions ie. DMC or AMC.

Apologies:o

[crouchaldinho]

You could try training your MC into an AMC if you think he has the right kind of qualities.

C.

[elland road boo boys]

You could try training your MC into an AMC if you think he has the right kind of qualities.

C.

I think I will just play it safe & use "Natural" to see how things pan out.

Thanks for all your help. Will leave you in peace now:D