4-2-3-1 with CM's or DM's and midfield pairs

[Skywalker7]

Which one is better, or is there a better one between these two in FM 23? We see in real life that manager mostly uses generic "6",  "8" and "10" roles in their 4-2-3-1's and I like this style of midfield setup, so in order to create this kind a scheme;

 

a) which role should I use to create classic 6 role in 2 cm setups?

b) which role should I use to create classic 8 role in 2 dm setups?

 

 

especially the 8 role in 2 dm's setups caused me many troubles because this year 4-2-3-1 with 2 dm's is kind a meta. I never saw AI using 4-2-3-1 with 2 cm's so I guess the game want us to play with 2 dm. But I couldn't manage to create the role I wanted with my DM's. generally speaking I want a B2B midfielder on my DM spot as my "the 8 role" and I tried Segundo Volante too many times for that purpose and It did not work for me. VOL plays awesome with 4-2-4's or 3-4-3's but not with the formations that has CAM. I'm wondering if you have any other suggestions or should I move to setup with 2 cm?

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Skywalker7

[gunnerfan]

The double pivot in FM23 works better in the DM strata than the CM, based on changes that were made to the match engine, and it's the default setup in the 4-2-3-1. I'm in the 8th season of my journeyman save, and I pair a BWM/D with a Regista, a VOL, or an RPM, depending on the skills of the player I'm using and the tactical situation. I've had a lot of success with it. 

[sonnevillejr]

8 hours ago, gunnerfan said:

The double pivot in FM23 works better in the DM strata than the CM, based on changes that were made to the match engine, and it's the default setup in the 4-2-3-1. I'm in the 8th season of my journeyman save, and I pair a BWM/D with a Regista, a VOL, or an RPM, depending on the skills of the player I'm using and the tactical situation. I've had a lot of success with it. 

I'm curious, what is your set up with the BWM on defend and the Regista?

[gunnerfan]

13 hours ago, sonnevillejr said:

I'm curious, what is your set up with the BWM on defend and the Regista?

                                                 AF/A

IW/A                                        AP/S                                    IF/S

 

                             RGA/S                       BWM/D

WB/S                   CD/D                         BPD/D                 WB/S

                                               SK/S

[nms1987]

Is there no lack of solidity with both BWM and Regista moving around?  

[Skywalk3r83]

I wanted to start a thread about the 4231 with CM pivots, but i'll join this conversation instead of creating a new thread

My go-to cm pair is a DLP on defend and a BBM, but recently i'm toying with a DLP on support and a CM on support.
With the CM you can tweak a bit more with the player instructions, but mostly i'll keep it on default. 
This is how i'll play most of the times, no fancy roles and i prefer FB on both sides to keep it more solid at the back.

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Skywalk3r83

[frank_olaf]

On 30/08/2023 at 02:04, nms1987 said:

Is there no lack of solidity with both BWM and Regista moving around?  

I thought a BWM on defend doesn't move around as much anymore in FM23? Hold Position is selected by default for the role + duty:

[Bitner]

In FM23 with my trusted DLP-D/B2B-S my midfield was the worst thing i ever noticed.

Now i'm using the 4-2-3-1 as my secondary tactic, with the DM-S/RGA-S pairing and i'm liking it.

Cheers,
Bitner 

[bosque]

29 minutes ago, Bitner said:

In FM23 with my trusted DLP-D/B2B-S my midfield was the worst thing i ever noticed.

Now i'm using the 4-2-3-1 as my secondary tactic, with the DM-S/RGA-S pairing and i'm liking it.

Cheers,
Bitner 

This is only my opinion but in the DLP-D/B2B-S pairing the creating and defending is focused on one player because the B2B is more of a runner or linking player. With the DM-S/RGA-S the responsabilities are better shared.

[Cloud9]

On 24/08/2023 at 18:58, Skywalker7 said:

Which one is better, or is there a better one between these two in FM 23? We see in real life that manager mostly uses generic "6",  "8" and "10" roles in their 4-2-3-1's and I like this style of midfield setup, so in order to create this kind a scheme;

 

a) which role should I use to create classic 6 role in 2 cm setups?

b) which role should I use to create classic 8 role in 2 dm setups?

 

 

especially the 8 role in 2 dm's setups caused me many troubles because this year 4-2-3-1 with 2 dm's is kind a meta. I never saw AI using 4-2-3-1 with 2 cm's so I guess the game want us to play with 2 dm. But I couldn't manage to create the role I wanted with my DM's. generally speaking I want a B2B midfielder on my DM spot as my "the 8 role" and I tried Segundo Volante too many times for that purpose and It did not work for me. VOL plays awesome with 4-2-4's or 3-4-3's but not with the formations that has CAM. I'm wondering if you have any other suggestions or should I move to setup with 2 cm?

 

Don't worry about a "meta." Use the CM strata if you want to win the ball back up high on the pitch and contain your opponent. However It does leave you more vulnerable to a counter attack and long balls. 

[Bitner]

Em 01/09/2023 em 11:52, bosque disse:

This is only my opinion but in the DLP-D/B2B-S pairing the creating and defending is focused on one player because the B2B is more of a runner or linking player. With the DM-S/RGA-S the responsabilities are better shared.

Yeah, the idea was to press high up the pitch, using a high line to cover this space, but didn't worked out this time. So the DM/Regista is more functional imo.

Cheers,
Bitner 

[Cloud9]

On 03/09/2023 at 06:54, Bitner said:

Yeah, the idea was to press high up the pitch, using a high line to cover this space, but didn't worked out this time. So the DM/Regista is more functional imo.

Cheers,
Bitner 

Try out a CM(s) x2, CM(s) + CM(d), or a DLP(s) BWM(d) as high pressing CM strata pivots. They're not more or less functional than a DM/RGA combo, just fit different play styles. 

[Cloud9]

On 01/09/2023 at 05:22, frank_olaf said:

I thought a BWM on defend doesn't move around as much anymore in FM23? Hold Position is selected by default for the role + duty:

He will hold but still charge out of position, I experimented around with the RGA +BWM combo in my on save. It's certainly not as a stable as the classic DLP(s) BWM(d), but the RGA roams pretty defensively so it's not an out and out problem unless you're running a super structured system. IMO pairing him with a DM(s) might give a more balanced partnership.

I think I've found the most success with a RGA as a solo DM, when he's shielded by two 8's in front of him and he can shuttle in the DM space behind. RGA/SV can be a fun approach, but you've usually got to be a pretty good team to get away with such an adventurous pivot. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Cloud9

[gunnerfan]

On 29/08/2023 at 21:04, nms1987 said:

Is there no lack of solidity with both BWM and Regista moving around?  

As frank_olaf noted above, hold position is a default PI for a BWM/d in FM23. I haven’t seen any lack of solidity at all.

[mibsweden]

I use CM-S x 2, with PIs of Hold Position and Tackle Harder. Works very well som in a high press system. 

[mrxtreme100]

I'm using a 4231 with 2 CMs and I've been struggling. My football IQ is low, so I'm not a hundred percent if I'm using the tactic right. My tactic is very similar to yalls suggestions, but I'm having some problems. 

My instructions is midblock, standard, line, more direct passing and slightly higher tempo. Counter and distribute quickly. I'm having 20-30% and my "World Class" striker is having player ratings of 6.4. I do know I need better midfielders to play DLP/S and I want to try playing CM/S - BWM/D and I'm interested in trying out that CM-S x 2 that mibsweden recommended, but I was curious if maybe my roles needed revision. I'm also wondering if I could get another attacking role. I want my IF/S and AM/S to be able to help my AF score. My passing network is also a mess lol, if that matters.

                                               AF/A

IW/A                                      AM/S                                    IF/S

                             DLP/S                       BWM/D

                       

WB/S                   CD/D                         BPD/D                 WB/S

                                               G/D

Edited September 11, 2023 by mrxtreme100

[Karlo]

7 hours ago, mrxtreme100 said:

I'm using a 4231 with 2 CMs and I've been struggling. My football IQ is low, so I'm not a hundred percent if I'm using the tactic right. My tactic is very similar to yalls suggestions, but I'm having some problems. 

My instructions is midblock, standard, line, more direct passing and slightly higher tempo. Counter and distribute quickly. I'm having 20-30% and my "World Class" striker is having player ratings of 6.4. I do know I need better midfielders to play DLP/S and I want to try playing CM/S - BWM/D and I'm interested in trying out that CM-S x 2 that mibsweden recommended, but I was curious if maybe my roles needed revision. I'm also wondering if I could get another attacking role. I want my IF/S and AM/S to be able to help my AF score. My passing network is also a mess lol, if that matters.

                                               AF/A

IW/A                                      AM/S                                    IF/S

                             DLP/S                       BWM/D

                       

WB/S                   CD/D                         BPD/D                 WB/S

                                               G/D

 

Start by switching your MC's to DLPde and BWMsu. Your rightback could be just a FBsu for more balance. The rest of your set-up isn't that bad.

Which mentality do you use? With more direct passes, higher tempo and counter ticked maybe cautious suits you best.
 

[mrxtreme100]

11 hours ago, Karlo said:

 

Start by switching your MC's to DLPde and BWMsu. Your rightback could be just a FBsu for more balance. The rest of your set-up isn't that bad.

Which mentality do you use? With more direct passes, higher tempo and counter ticked maybe cautious suits you best.
 

I use positive mentality, I'll try your suggestions. I should've thought of cautious mentality lol. I look at it as defensive mentality but after reading the first sentence of the description about losing the possession battle, I think this will help alot. Thanks!

[HotPizza87]

BWM(D) works well with DLP(S). Both hold position. A quintessential double pivot.