Your opinion matter. A 4231DM love story❤️

[ThomasHK1979]

Through the years I once in a while try other formations but I always go back to 4231DM. I’m just love this formation. So balanced and so tight defensively. 
The most difficult part for me has always been to find the best roles for the double DM pivot. SO, which roles do you prefer and why?

My thoughts:

DLP: The safe choice. Strong defensively but sometimes lack a bit of dynamic movement. 

DM: More dynamic than DLP but not as creative. 

BWM: Very strong defensively and a very solid role against strong teams. 

RPM: I tried several times to get this role to work. It’s just not as creative and the I always get some of the lowest ratings when I use this role. 

Regista: This role is by far the role I get the best ratings and performances from. When I use a RPM my players hardly get a season average above 6.90 even if I win the title. But when I switch to Regista that around 7.30-7.40. 

Segundo Volante: Very dynamic role that I love to use. I often end up using the Regista/Segundo Volante combo even though the common sense says that it shouldn’t work. But it does. 
 

I never use half back and the other more defensive roles, as they simply doesn’t create enough offensively  

Edited April 4, 2023 by ThomasHK1979

[Johnny Ace]

13 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

SO, which roles do you prefer and why?

90% of the time, just two Defensive Midfielders, that's all I want from these guys, play it safe between the defense and attack, help defend and supply the front 4. A DM(S)/ DM(S) combo or a DM(D)/DM(S) 

Yeah, a halfback would do my OCD 

Sometimes I'll use a DLP 

If I go with a roaming role or a Volante, I'll use a FB just so they tuck in a little more and don't bomb forward so much 

Like your selection wouldn't be for me, but I'm boring  My Bayern save in 2048 just uses a DLP(D/S)/ DM(S) with Wingbacks 

[crusadertsar]

2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

90% of the time, just two Defensive Midfielders, that's all I want from these guys, play it safe between the defense and attack, help defend and supply the front 4. A DM(S)/ DM(S) combo or a DM(D)/DM(S) 

Yeah, a halfback would do my OCD 

Sometimes I'll use a DLP 

If I go with a roaming role or a Volante, I'll use a FB just so they tuck in a little more and don't bomb forward so much 

Like your selection wouldn't be for me, but I'm boring  My Bayern save in 2048 just uses a DLP(D/S)/ DM(S) with Wingbacks 

Yeah his DM double pivot is way too adventurous for my taste too   and the attack too for that matter. It's probably because I never really play with super clubs that would allow these kind of attacking tactics.

But I gotta agree 4-2-3-1 DM has become one of my favourite tactics in the game over the years too. This is my latest version of 4-2-3-1 DM with my fave Real Sociedad

[Johnny Ace]

That looks a lot of fun @crusadertsar  Hope you're feeling well 

[crusadertsar]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

That looks a lot of fun @crusadertsar  Hope you're feeling well 

It's definitely been rough couple of days but I think I'm over the worst of it 😃 Immersing myself in FM is definitely making me feel better. Still tweaking that tactic. Really wanted to make Raumdeuter work but not sure whether a simple IF (A) wouldn't be better. It's a shame because False 9 and Raum combo seemed like a perfect fit at first. One role that loves to drop back and create space and one that specializes in exploiting such spaces. But not everything works in the game as we wish haha 

[Johnny Ace]

6 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

It's definitely been rough couple of days but I think I'm over the worst of it 😃 Immersing myself in FM is definitely making me feel better. Still tweaking that tactic. Really wanted to make Raumdeuter work but not sure whether a simple IF (A) wouldn't be better. It's a shame because False 9 and Raum combo seemed like a perfect fit at first. One role that loves to drop back and create space and one that specializes in exploiting such spaces. But not everything works in the game as we wish haha 

Good stuff  From personal experience, I'd vote for the IF(A) 

[Wavelberry]

Regista and Segundo as my double pivot. Been using it since FM18. Changed my life

[deorvd]

So many players bombing forward, but it's one of the best clubs in the league so I guess you'll score more. I'd worry against Napoli and Lazio as they play counter and Osimhen and Ciro are real threats to your defense. 

[yonko]

I like using DLP-S with VOL-S as the double pivot. 

[Numenor]

Im actually mixing between a 433 and deep 4231, both on balanced mentality and it works great.

[jc577]

On 04/04/2023 at 12:18, crusadertsar said:

But I gotta agree 4-2-3-1 DM has become one of my favourite tactics in the game over the years too. This is my latest version of 4-2-3-1 DM with my fave Real Sociedad

Yeah think we need another write up for this beauty mate! 

[ThomasHK1979]

9 hours ago, Numenor said:

Im actually mixing between a 433 and deep 4231, both on balanced mentality and it works great.

Don’t you see too much distance between your two DM’s and your SS ?

[Numenor]

Not at all. Due to the balanced mentality the shadow striker is just attacking instead of very attacking that it would be on a higher mentality like control it also make the gap smaller between the different tiers. 

[GabiGoll]

On 6.04.2023 at 16:02, Numenor said:

Zupełnie nie. Ze względu na zrównoważoną mentalność, napastnik cienia po prostu atakuje zamiast samego ataku, co byłoby na wyższym poziomie mentalnym, takim jak kontrola, zmniejsza również różnicę między różnymi poziomami. 

I like the usual AP on the attack, it helps in playing the ball from the back, it attacks the penalty area, it can also help on the sides. I also noticed that AFa is probably the best choice as a striker, he behaves like PF and CF and P, I think :). I haven't achieved anything great with a balanced mentality, since FM20 I've only played with an offensive mentality

[lied90]

On 04/04/2023 at 10:43, ThomasHK1979 said:

SO, which roles do you prefer and why?

Volante on attack, because..... They act like box2box players when attacking, and cover the DM spot when defending. Mixed with wingbacks staying narrow.

[Halbraum]

What i like about this formation is that it's so versatile and balanced. It's suited to both short and direct styles, also you are able to use a wide variety of roles in defense/midfield compared to the classic (in FM world) 4-2-3-1. Build-up is easier either since the double pivot starts deeper and overload the middle while  bringing the ball from the back.

 

Your double pivot is less safe for my taste, i usually prefer to combine one defensive workhorse with a role that is able to support and connect play with advanced players such as SV,RPM etc. I only use Half Back if i want to  send the other midfielder and a fullback to forward more aggressively (SVat and WBat for example).

[ThomasHK1979]

On 10/04/2023 at 01:26, Halbraum said:

What i like about this formation is that it's so versatile and balanced. It's suited to both short and direct styles, also you are able to use a wide variety of roles in defense/midfield compared to the classic (in FM world) 4-2-3-1. Build-up is easier either since the double pivot starts deeper and overload the middle while  bringing the ball from the back.

 

Your double pivot is less safe for my taste, i usually prefer to combine one defensive workhorse with a role that is able to support and connect play with advanced players such as SV,RPM etc. I only use Half Back if i want to  send the other midfielder and a fullback to forward more aggressively (SVat and WBat for example).

Could  a RPM/SVs/Treq combo work in a 4231?

[Halbraum]

2 saat önce, ThomasHK1979 said:

Could  a RPM/SVs/Treq combo work in a 4231?

It's even more scarier than REG+SVs to me If you want to utilize an aggressive role in a double-pivot, you need other role to be more responsible in providing cover while your team's attacking. For example; DLPs+SVs, DMd+SVat etc. 

[Skywalk3r83]

What's a better combo if you use a Shadow Striker?

DLPs and a SVs

DLPs an a DMs

[Johnny Ace]

9 hours ago, Skywalk3r83 said:

What's a better combo if you use a Shadow Striker?

DLPs and a SVs

DLPs an a DMs

In theory, you'd say the Volante, a role looking to link a little more with the SS 

[Skywalk3r83]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

In theory, you'd say the Volante, a role looking to link a little more with the SS 

Thanks! I usually use a DLP and BBM as a CM combo but I promised my DLP to be a DM when he signed a new contract. Same goes for the SS 😆

[Johnny Ace]

23 minutes ago, Skywalk3r83 said:

Thanks! I usually use a DLP and BBM as a CM combo but I promised my DLP to be a DM when he signed a new contract. Same goes for the SS 😆

Always remove those from negotiations, pain in the neck if you miss them 

DLP and VOL should be a stella combination, just use caution with the R/LB role on the side of the Volante

[Skywalk3r83]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

Always remove those from negotiations, pain in the neck if you miss them 

DLP and VOL should be a stella combination, just use caution with the R/LB role on the side of the Volante

Yes I know, I clicked too fast😁

I have a FBs on the side of the SV and a WB on the other side. 

[GonzaloFlores]

I've always broken the DM roles into 3 groups.

Group 1 - Can be used in any tactic. Solid, dependable and will always do a job for you, at any level.

A - Most limited role possible. Does a little of everything you expect of a DM but don't expect anything extravagant
DM - A bit more expansive than the A but still pretty limited. An A that can at least jog and pass a ball more than 5 yards

Group 2 - Still pretty dependable but players need a couple of key attributes to make these work.

DLP - Need high numbers in the passing trifecta (Passing, Technique, Vision)
BWM - Need to have high Tackling, Aggression and Bravery
SV - Need high Stamina and Work Rate and benefit from having good OtB and Positioning as well

Group 3 - Specialist roles for specific circumstances.

HB - Only really works when playing 1 DM. Basically a BPD who defends higher up the pitch. Need's CM's that hold position so midfield isn't completely vacant
Reg - Again is usually used when playing 1 DM. Basically an AP but deeper. Needs a solid defence (usually back 3) behind him and CM's that will press high so that the Reg can operate higher
RPM - Needs to be in a double pivot. The other DM holding position. I consider this role as the SV on steroids. Like all playmakers, they need space to operate as well so don't crowd them

Assuming I am a decent team (for that level) then for a double pivot I would always start with the DM role and then based on the player decide on whether their attributes mean they actually become a role from group 2 or potentially group 3 (only the RPM really though for a double pivot).

[lipebtavares]

Em 04/04/2023 em 08:18, crusadertsar disse:

Yeah his DM double pivot is way too adventurous for my taste too   and the attack too for that matter. It's probably because I never really play with super clubs that would allow these kind of attacking tactics.

But I gotta agree 4-2-3-1 DM has become one of my favourite tactics in the game over the years too. This is my latest version of 4-2-3-1 DM with my fave Real Sociedad

Can you talk more about this tactic of yours? I like your articles.

[Captain_T]

Very interesting thread!

I also prefer a 4231- system, but switched to 433, because it looks more stable at the moment for my team (Hertha Berlin - first season).

My main problem in 4231 is how to make the AMC to be productive. 

There was a very nice thread for FM21 to "make the AMC shine again".

Is there something similar for FM23?

 

 

[Johnny Ace]

22 hours ago, Captain_T said:

Very interesting thread!

I also prefer a 4231- system, but switched to 433, because it looks more stable at the moment for my team (Hertha Berlin - first season).

My main problem in 4231 is how to make the AMC to be productive. 

There was a very nice thread for FM21 to "make the AMC shine again".

Is there something similar for FM23?

Not really but they fare better than they did in FM21

Might sound really obvious, but make sure you have a really good player at AMC and set pieces can help a lot

[Cloud9]

On 24/05/2023 at 02:47, Captain_T said:

Very interesting thread!

I also prefer a 4231- system, but switched to 433, because it looks more stable at the moment for my team (Hertha Berlin - first season).

My main problem in 4231 is how to make the AMC to be productive. 

There was a very nice thread for FM21 to "make the AMC shine again".

Is there something similar for FM23?

 

 

If you've got the holding pivot behind them, sticking roam on a technical/flair AMC(s) and can be quite nice!

[ThomasHK1979]

On 04/04/2023 at 14:29, Wavelberry said:

Regista and Segundo as my double pivot. Been using it since FM18. Changed my life

What role do you use for your AMC then?

[Wavelberry]

That's changed year on year. Got mileage out of the Treq in FM18, SS in FM19 and this year and a AM(a) with PIs last year.

[ThomasHK1979]

On 27/05/2023 at 16:12, Wavelberry said:

That's changed year on year. Got mileage out of the Treq in FM18, SS in FM19 and this year and a AM(a) with PIs last year.

SS in FM23 or Treq?