Inside forwards need fixing

[HM786]

It may just be me but I did see somebody else comment this as well in the forum. Inside forwards just aren't doing anything now they practically act like wingers with an odd inside pass here and there. They never get into the box and are really unproductive. I think the way they were implemented last year was a lot better and would appreciate if this was looked at or tweaked.

[Amigooo]

Agreed

[Marc Vaughan]

Would you mind posting some details about the players you've tried in these positions - also can you try playing players who are also natural attackers in this role and see if they play more aggressively (and suit what you expect more).

[HM786]

So I've tried the likes of of Emmanuel Dennis, Brennan Johnson, M'Bala Nzola and Lingard in these positions. But for me they're not penetrative like IFs other years that would go into the box and make great runs to be another threat alongside the striker. Now I'm finding the striker is alone and practically relying on an AP or AM to help.

[Marc Vaughan]

2 hours ago, HM786 said:

So I've tried the likes of of Emmanuel Dennis, Brennan Johnson, M'Bala Nzola and Lingard in these positions. But for me they're not penetrative like IFs other years that would go into the box and make great runs to be another threat alongside the striker. Now I'm finding the striker is alone and practically relying on an AP or AM to help.

The behavior of IF"s have changed somewhat this version - a LOT of users complained that in previous versions IF's tended to move to the front and then 'sit' like a standard striker rather than move like a real-IF, in this version IF's should make more movement and not be quite so static.

This does mean that some old tactics might not work in quite the same way they used to (ie. if you had a 'cheat' tactic using IF's you might need to tune it slightly) - however it should be more realistic (time will tell and I'm open to tuning things) - at present you'll find IF's most attacking if they are also attackers (ie. players with those positions will tend to get into the box quicker than an IF who is just an AM who will most likely make slightly later runs into the box to receive the ball).

I'm listening to feedback about this - but beta testers seemed very happy with the changes so I want to make sure I get sufficient feedback from the wild before making further tweaks (and I also realize that some complaints will be based around their old tactical style not being as effective).

[HM786]

Do you have any tips from experience, for me a standard 4-3-3 with an AP is not helping and a 4-2-3-1 isn't working much better either?

[Marc Vaughan]

3 hours ago, HM786 said:

Do you have any tips from experience, for me a standard 4-3-3 with an AP is not helping and a 4-2-3-1 isn't working much better either?

In the Premiership I've used 3 at the back and then wingbacks in DML/R (sometimes inverted wingbacks depending on players) positions, two central midfielders (sometimes two DMC's if I'm outclassed) and two inside forwards ahead of them and a single forward. This 5-2-2-1 seems to be fairly reliable, for the central midfielders I have one Advanced Playmaker and one Ball-Winner, my sole striker is normally a Target Man and his job is to score (when possible) or to lay it off to players who come up in support ...

As far as mentality goes I normally use balanced or counter attacking - although now and again if I'm feeling confident I'll play attacking.

Your milage may vary as my Eastbourne team probably isn't the same as your side.

[HM786]

Thanks marc

[Fabio MVP]

On 13/11/2022 at 14:48, Marc Vaughan said:

The behavior of IF"s have changed somewhat this version - a LOT of users complained that in previous versions IF's tended to move to the front and then 'sit' like a standard striker rather than move like a real-IF, in this version IF's should make more movement and not be quite so static.

This does mean that some old tactics might not work in quite the same way they used to (ie. if you had a 'cheat' tactic using IF's you might need to tune it slightly) - however it should be more realistic (time will tell and I'm open to tuning things) - at present you'll find IF's most attacking if they are also attackers (ie. players with those positions will tend to get into the box quicker than an IF who is just an AM who will most likely make slightly later runs into the box to receive the ball).

I'm listening to feedback about this - but beta testers seemed very happy with the changes so I want to make sure I get sufficient feedback from the wild before making further tweaks (and I also realize that some complaints will be based around their old tactical style not being as effective).

Hey Marc,

Agreed on the bolded part, but they are doing the opposite now. You need the find the middle!

I'm playing as Man Utd in 4-4-2 formation with AML (Rashford and Sancho) and AMR (Antony and Pellistri), so IF's have plenty of space to cut inside, but for some reason they really don't. They tend to drift wide outside without the ball, as if they are standing on the side and watching the match, or they are running towards the corner flag with the ball, but not crossing in the end because of the wrong foot. Rarely they are doing what is expected of them.

I'm playing Pellistri as a Winger (because he is right-footed AMR) and the other three as Inside Forwards. The IF's are pretty much useless. They are geting poor to average ratings, in 10 games or so, Rashford and Antony (first choices) have 0 G/A, while Sancho has 1 assist. Pellistri on the other hand is much more effective as he is doing his Wingers job of getting past the full back and crossing byline.


As much as I agree that in past version IF's were sitting next to strikers, they were at least effective with providing G/A, but their behavious was unrealistic and annoying and I didn't like that.

While in this version it is much more realistic they they are staying out wide in the start and moving around much more, not being static and sitting next to the striker, they still need tweaking in terms of cutting inside without and especially with the ball and trying the create havoc in opp defense.


P. S. First season (6th of october):

Rashford (first choice): 11 app, 2 goals, 0 assists, average rating of 6,72.
Sancho (bench, being introduced at HT in almost every match):  8 app, 0 goals, 1 assist, average rating of 6,50.
Antony (first choice): 11 app, 0 golas, 1 assist, average rating of 6,53.


In my highly successful previous save game, in first three seasons, things were about the same.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Fabio MVP

[HM786]

Definitely agree with you Fabio.

[DW19]

I have been using Inverted Wingers instead of Inside Forwards. I am down in the VNS, so a slightly different situation, but it is working fairly well for me.

[Roccstar]

Totally agree! The output from these forwards has dropped dramatically. Used to get 20+ goals from the best ones in the past, now it’s lucky to get 6 or 7. I think goals in general have dropped again, Italian league, really good attacking team, champions and scored 60 goals. It’s a bit irritating having 20 shots, 12 on target and scoring 1 goal every game. It’s a recurring thing, most games

[Fabio MVP]

On 21/11/2022 at 14:13, Roccstar said:

Totally agree! The output from these forwards has dropped dramatically. Used to get 20+ goals from the best ones in the past, now it’s lucky to get 6 or 7. I think goals in general have dropped again, Italian league, really good attacking team, champions and scored 60 goals. It’s a bit irritating having 20 shots, 12 on target and scoring 1 goal every game. It’s a recurring thing, most games

Agreed.

[Zoot]

I like it the way it is now. In before IF was a cheat scoring lots and lots of goals. I still have in Ath Bilbao IF scoring goals and having assists but waaay more realistically than last years when each of my IF scored  20+.

I like it the way it is now its much more realistic for me.

[Fabio MVP]

It's not just about G/A's, it's about them not doing what they are supposed to do to with or without ball.

[Black_Hawk]

It's not the case of whether the numbers are more realistic or not. The problem is that inside forwards don't behave like inside forwards at all.

I play with a 41221 since the first FMs. When I started playing FM Mobile at the beginning of 2022, I tried to recreate the dynamics I was always looking for in the PC version of the game for years: the advanced forward moving back and dragging defenders with him, while one of the central midfielders or one of the two wingers go into the back of the defense. This worked fine in FM 22 Mobile because the inside forwards actually worked like inside forwards, going inside of the field.

This year tough, they don't work at all. They just sat there by the touchline, they don't give passing chances to the midfielders or the striker, they don't look for space inside when with the ball, in fact they don't do it either when they don't have the ball. They don't do anything.

For example, I recently explained that in a portuguese forum using these two prints. I'm playing Sporting and I have Pedro Gonçalves (#28 at the left, right footed) and Francisco Trincão (#17 at the right, left footed) as inside forwards.

My striker Paulinho (#20) is going to receive the ball bringing a centre-back with him. Thing is... Pedro Gonçalves and Francisco Trincão are completely out of what is expected of an inside forward. They should be close do where the Xs are, where they could either receive the ball from Paulinho or go through their defensive to receive a through ball.

They are acting as traditional wingers. If I wanted traditional wingers, I would use traditional wingers. I want inside forwards who actually roam inside to mess with opponent organization.

Another example, at the beggining of the same game.

My deep lying midfieler Ugarte (#15) found Paulinho (#20). The inside forwards are inside, sure. Inside the field, but nowhere inside of the game. They are even blocking the progression of my two wing backs.

What they are doing most games is sitting outside like in those two prints and their movement is what is pictured by the black arrows, when they should be doing the yellow arrows instead - because that's what an inside forward do. They are acting as traditional wingers. I don't want to use traditional wingers.

Btw, inverted wingers work just like inside forwards. A bit different, but almost the same.

Inside forwards in this version are not realistic at all. I get that you guys tried to nerf them because they were overpowered, but what you did was kill them. It was a cheap and effortless way to be done with the effect they had in the match engine.If I had known this before I bought the game, I wouldn't have bought it.

Please, fix this, I want to enjoy the game.

[Edun Razak]

I'm using Foden as my IF but he tends to acts as a winger only hugging the byline and rarely get into the box like an IF also somehow useless in the attacking phase 

[MoldeFK15]

Agree with all. Definitely looking forward to starting a save when this is fixed as the output is almost non existent for my IF’s no matter who plays there.

[Fabio MVP]

On 27/11/2022 at 19:41, Black_Hawk said:

It's not the case of whether the numbers are more realistic or not. The problem is that inside forwards don't behave like inside forwards at all.

I play with a 41221 since the first FMs. When I started playing FM Mobile at the beginning of 2022, I tried to recreate the dynamics I was always looking for in the PC version of the game for years: the advanced forward moving back and dragging defenders with him, while one of the central midfielders or one of the two wingers go into the back of the defense. This worked fine in FM 22 Mobile because the inside forwards actually worked like inside forwards, going inside of the field.

This year tough, they don't work at all. They just sat there by the touchline, they don't give passing chances to the midfielders or the striker, they don't look for space inside when with the ball, in fact they don't do it either when they don't have the ball. They don't do anything.

For example, I recently explained that in a portuguese forum using these two prints. I'm playing Sporting and I have Pedro Gonçalves (#28 at the left, right footed) and Francisco Trincão (#17 at the right, left footed) as inside forwards.

My striker Paulinho (#20) is going to receive the ball bringing a centre-back with him. Thing is... Pedro Gonçalves and Francisco Trincão are completely out of what is expected of an inside forward. They should be close do where the Xs are, where they could either receive the ball from Paulinho or go through their defensive to receive a through ball.

They are acting as traditional wingers. If I wanted traditional wingers, I would use traditional wingers. I want inside forwards who actually roam inside to mess with opponent organization.

Another example, at the beggining of the same game.

My deep lying midfieler Ugarte (#15) found Paulinho (#20). The inside forwards are inside, sure. Inside the field, but nowhere inside of the game. They are even blocking the progression of my two wing backs.

What they are doing most games is sitting outside like in those two prints and their movement is what is pictured by the black arrows, when they should be doing the yellow arrows instead - because that's what an inside forward do. They are acting as traditional wingers. I don't want to use traditional wingers.

Btw, inverted wingers work just like inside forwards. A bit different, but almost the same.

Inside forwards in this version are not realistic at all. I get that you guys tried to nerf them because they were overpowered, but what you did was kill them. It was a cheap and effortless way to be done with the effect they had in the match engine.If I had known this before I bought the game, I wouldn't have bought it.

Please, fix this, I want to enjoy the game.

Exactly! That's what I was saying, but you've expanded on it. The likes of Rasford, Sancho and Antony can't get double figures in G/A's. Garnacho not developing the right way as he has 5-6 goals and 3-4 assist in 48 games.

[Fabio MVP]

18 hours ago, MoldeFK15 said:

Agree with all. Definitely looking forward to starting a save when this is fixed as the output is almost non existent for my IF’s no matter who plays there.

Unfortunately I am thinking of doing the same after the next update comes out.

[Maulubec]

Le 17/11/2022 à 10:09, Fabio MVP a dit :

Hey Marc,

Agreed on the bolded part, but they are doing the opposite now. You need the find the middle!

I'm playing as Man Utd in 4-4-2 formation with AML (Rashford and Sancho) and AMR (Antony and Pellistri), so IF's have plenty of space to cut inside, but for some reason they really don't. They tend to drift wide outside without the ball, as if they are standing on the side and watching the match, or they are running towards the corner flag with the ball, but not crossing in the end because of the wrong foot. Rarely they are doing what is expected of them.

I'm playing Pellistri as a Winger (because he is right-footed AMR) and the other three as Inside Forwards. The IF's are pretty much useless. They are geting poor to average ratings, in 10 games or so, Rashford and Antony (first choices) have 0 G/A, while Sancho has 1 assist. Pellistri on the other hand is much more effective as he is doing his Wingers job of getting past the full back and crossing byline.


As much as I agree that in past version IF's were sitting next to strikers, they were at least effective with providing G/A, but their behavious was unrealistic and annoying and I didn't like that.

While in this version it is much more realistic they they are staying out wide in the start and moving around much more, not being static and sitting next to the striker, they still need tweaking in terms of cutting inside without and especially with the ball and trying the create havoc in opp defense.


P. S. First season (6th of october):

Rashford (first choice): 11 app, 2 goals, 0 assists, average rating of 6,72.
Sancho (bench, being introduced at HT in almost every match):  8 app, 0 goals, 1 assist, average rating of 6,50.
Antony (first choice): 11 app, 0 golas, 1 assist, average rating of 6,53.


In my highly successful previous save game, in first three seasons, things were about the same.

Well summed up, a sweet spot needs to be found between last year where they got stuck in the midst of opposing CDs, and this year where they are basically wingers (even if they have good movement/finishing).

Basically they don't need to be more Forward, but they need to be more Inside, not at all times at all (they should by default be a bit wide) but rather seize occasions to cut inside with diagonal runs. They shouldn't need to be strikers at heart to do it, it's the purpose of the role.

They seem obsessed with offering overlap to Wing-Backs and offer them a pass solution. But they don't judge important to offer pass solutions to strikers, as they should. 

Right now, my advice to other players to emulate IFs is to have 3 AMCs just behind the striker, it works quite well for me. 

[MoldeFK15]

Is there any update on a possible fox for this please guys? Only big issue I have, very impressed by the game otherwise.

[Marc Vaughan]

2 hours ago, MoldeFK15 said:

Is there any update on a possible fox for this please guys? Only big issue I have, very impressed by the game otherwise.

The next update shouldn't be long now - but we don't release actual 'dates' because that side of thing isn't fully under our control (ie. we submit to the platform holders who have to approve the release).

[MoldeFK15]

Thanks very much for the reply Marc.

Edited December 6, 2022 by MoldeFK15

[RSeven]

23 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

The next update shouldn't be long now - but we don't release actual 'dates' because that side of thing isn't fully under our control (ie. we submit to the platform holders who have to approve the release).

Update released. IF role tweaked.

I did some quick test on 41221.

My observation is lelow

1. IF will stand more close to center of field.

2. Still not go into box actively.

3. IF at FR/L position will be more close to box, will have more chance to shoot.

4. WB  will push IF to center a little.

I will test more