How to make a CM(A) works?

[Delial]

I guess everything's in the title.

I never really had a great success to make a CM(A) works. I mean, I dream to play with a Van de Beek/Muller type of player. Like a deep shadow striker/Raumdeuter.

Which attributes are required and which player can fulfill the role in your opinion?

Let's share our tactics to see what to do/not do!

[Lesterfan_Cambiasso]

18 minutes ago, Delial said:

I guess everything's in the title.

I never really had a great success to make a CM(A) works. I mean, I dream to play with a Van de Beek/Muller type of player. Like a deep shadow striker/Raumdeuter.

Which attributes are required and which player can fulfill the role in your opinion?

Let's share our tactics to see what to do/not do!

Off the ball is important, needs good decisions too.

Stamina to keep making the forward runs.

If youre looking for someone like Frank Lampard who id say was pretty much the definition of CM(A) then long shots, finishing and technique all important.

Tactical set up would be having someone in the DM position to give security to the back line and let him go forward, wingers who cross from the byline to cut back to him too.

[CARRERA]

Yellow backgroud = Important (long shots, tackling, technique, antizipation, composure, teamwork, vision, work rate, acceleration, stamina)

Green Background = most important (first touch, passing, decisions, off the ball)

A CM even with an attack duty is not that type of player that will most likely enter the box. He will more likely be available for cutback passes to attempt long shots then from around the box. If you are looking for players who consistantly enter the box you need to move up to the AM(L/R) strata.

[davidbarros2]

Well, I had success with a CM-A and he entered the box...a lot.

I guess it's all down to the system you use. I used a 3-5-2 WB formation or whatever it's called, with a poacher and a DLF-S up front. The DLF comes deep, holds up ball and gets the time needed for the CM-A to attack the box. Using a playmaker role in midfield to dictates tempo makes when one of the complete wingbacks can deliver a cross, the box is populated with the poacher and the CM-A almost all of the time.

This in this version of the game, have used a CM-A in a wide 4-3-3 (or 41221...) in the past aswell. Good performances from him but not the same goalscoring output, more like a runner from deep who occupies defenses freeing space for others.

[Jack722]

I think the most important part to consider is the formation. As @CARRERA said above, the required attributes are all highlighted by the game, which can show you whether a player can pull off the role or not.

What you want is a formation that allows a centre midfielder space to break forward into, while not having to cover large spaces in defence. IMO the two best formations I can think of for this off the top of my head are the 532 and 4141. The 532, despite normally having attacking wingbacks, has two other CM's and 3 CB's to help defend and give the CMa the freedom to get forward. Only having two forwards as well allows room for the extra midfielder to break into space, to make a sort of 5212 formation. Whereas in a 4141, your wingers stay wider, allowing your fullbacks to be more defensive, this means that with the protection of fullbacks and a DM, your midfielder again has the license to get further forward.

Here is a goal scored by my CMa (no.29) in a 4141, which I believe is the sort of thing you are hoping to achieve.

You can see that the right winger (10) holds the width, allowing the right back (24) to stay further back. The width from the right winger is also what causes the opposition left back (27) to stay that one step further out, which opens up the channel for my midfielder to move in to.

If you tried the same thing in, for example, 433, it would be more difficult. You can see below that in this formation, the wingers pinch in much narrower in build up, which not only closes that channel that my midfielder moved in to previously, but it also means that the fullbacks now have to get further forward to give width for my attack, giving the midfielder extra defensive responsibility.

In defense as well, since the AML/R wingers (20, 10) don't track back as much as ML/R wingers, your CM's naturally need to be harder working and better defensively, in order to help out the full backs.

Whereas obviously in a 4141, you defend in to lines of 4 plus a DM in between, meaning your central midfielders have much less space to cover and don't need to put in as much of a defensive shift.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Jack722

[halfspace3000]

12 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

I think the most important part to consider is the formation. As @CARRERA said above, the required attributes are all highlighted by the game, which can show you whether a player can pull off the role or not.

What you want is a formation that allows a centre midfielder space to break forward into, while not having to cover large spaces in defence. IMO the two best formations I can think of for this off the top of my head are the 532 and 4141. The 532, despite normally having attacking wingbacks, has two other CM's and 3 CB's to help defend and give the CMa the freedom to get forward. Only having two forwards as well allows room for the extra midfielder to break into space, to make a sort of 5212 formation. Whereas in a 4141, your wingers stay wider, allowing your fullbacks to be more defensive, this means that with the protection of fullbacks and a DM, your midfielder again has the license to get further forward.

Here is a goal scored by my CMa (no.29) in a 4141, which I believe is the sort of thing you are hoping to achieve.

You can see that the right winger (10) holds the width, allowing the right back (24) to stay further back. The width from the right winger is also what causes the opposition left back (27) to stay that one step further out, which opens up the channel for my midfielder to move in to.

If you tried the same thing in, for example, 433, it would be more difficult. You can see below that in this formation, the wingers pinch in much narrower in build up, which not only closes that channel that my midfielder moved in to previously, but it also means that the fullbacks now have to get further forward to give width for my attack, giving the midfielder extra defensive responsibility.

In defense as well, since the AML/R wingers (20, 10) don't track back as much as ML/R wingers, your CM's naturally need to be harder working and better defensively, in order to help out the full backs.

whats your formation looking like?

[Jack722]

1 minute ago, halfspace3000 said:

whats your formation looking like?

I normally use mezzalas over CM's though, but they do a pretty similar job in this case imo.

[halfspace3000]

4 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

I normally use mezzalas over CM's though, but they do a pretty similar job in this case imo.

nice setup , i have found the 4141 to be better than the 433 this year , as there balance in attacking and defending

Edited October 1, 2021 by halfspace3000

[Delial]

il y a 20 minutes, Jack722 a dit :

I normally use mezzalas over CM's though, but they do a pretty similar job in this case imo.

Thanks a lot for the tips!

Indeed I play a 433 and despite the fact that I ask my IWs to stay wider, they end up around the box pretty quick.

My main problem with a 4141 is that I struggle to press high and to retain possession. I feel like this is a formation to play quick transition football.

I wonder if in a 433 it would work to have like a Mezzala(s) to stay upfront and to play killer passes inside the box, and to have a B2B that starts deeper but with PPMs such as Gets Into Opposition Area, we could recreate what a CM(A) can do in a 4141...

[zabyl]

I try to use tricks like drawing attention to a different area to release CMa because of his deep starting position.

CMa can be an effective goal threat if he has good speed, off the ball, composure.  Passing & tempo must provide him time to get into box. He can’t reach higher areas on time with a direct style or faster passing no matter how he is fast. He is better combined with a support duty striker.

Edited October 1, 2021 by zabyl

[Djecker]

Like @Jack722 said, I've had a lot of success with a CM(A) out of a 4-1-4-1, behind a TM(a). His thread on the 4-1-4-1 vs the 4-3-3 got me going away from the second formation towards the first. The TM would hold up the ball and suck in defenders allowing for the CM(A) to run in behind quite easily.

[Hilly1979]

10 hours ago, CARRERA said:

Yellow backgroud = Important (long shots, tackling, technique, antizipation, composure, teamwork, vision, work rate, acceleration, stamina)

Green Background = most important (first touch, passing, decisions, off the ball)

A CM even with an attack duty is not that type of player that will most likely enter the box. He will more likely be available for cutback passes to attempt long shots then from around the box. If you are looking for players who consistantly enter the box you need to move up to the AM(L/R) strata.

Not sure that’s strictly true, the correct player with the right attributes and maybe helpful ppms will enter the box quite regularly, especially on higher mentalities 

[Jack722]

10 hours ago, Delial said:

Thanks a lot for the tips!

Indeed I play a 433 and despite the fact that I ask my IWs to stay wider, they end up around the box pretty quick.

My main problem with a 4141 is that I struggle to press high and to retain possession. I feel like this is a formation to play quick transition football.

I wonder if in a 433 it would work to have like a Mezzala(s) to stay upfront and to play killer passes inside the box, and to have a B2B that starts deeper but with PPMs such as Gets Into Opposition Area, we could recreate what a CM(A) can do in a 4141...

Yeah I see. You can play a 433 with wingers and ask your whole team to play extremely wide and I'm still pretty sure that your wingers will play mostly in the half spaces when probing the box. It's just how that formation works in FM (and mostly irl). Feel free to try it with a 433 though, and it easily could work, it's just not something I think makes a lot of sense.

It's easy to get caught up in possession numbers, but my advice would be to just ignore it unless you start getting bad results, you can still dominate the game, you might just see the other team passing between their centrebacks quite a lot while not doing anything with the ball.

Might be worth trying a 532 then if the 433 doesn't get your CM performing as you'd like.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Jack722

[CARRERA]

8 hours ago, Hilly1979 said:

Not sure that’s strictly true, the correct player with the right attributes and maybe helpful ppms will enter the box quite regularly, especially on higher mentalities 

Yes you are right, I didn’t factor in that mentality has a huge impact on players movement. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by CARRERA

[Amazingortega]

21 hours ago, Jack722 said:

I normally use mezzalas over CM's though, but they do a pretty similar job in this case imo.

This looks so simple and basic. I really want to use it for my arsenal team. Do you use pis?

[Delial]

Hi everyone,

I managed to make a proper 433 with a CM(A) who is the best player of the team with a lot a goals and assists.

Of course, I play with Zaniolo who is a world class player. But a player with good anticipation, off the ball, decision and acceleration could also work.

In order to have the space to play the way that I want him to, the winger next to him is on support duty and is asked to stay wider. But the main trick is my 3-man midfield: I don't play with a DM. I don't know if it really has an effect but I feel like my right and left CM are a bit wider when playing next to a CM(D). It could also be a DLP(D) of course.

I can't post screenshots right now but I will later.