4-4-2 central midfielder

[sovy666]

Hello everyone, I have this tactic that works pretty well but the player in the circle always gets lower ratings than the others whether we win or lose apart from when he makes an assist or a goal. I have already tried different roles for the position (deep lying playmaker, B2B, BWM and roaming playmaker) and then ended up with the most generic role there is but that doesn't solve the problem. What role would you put in that position with this tactic even possibly with added PI?

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by sovy666

[NotSoSpecialOne]

What sort of average rating does he have?

[sovy666]

10 minuti fa, NotSoSpecialOne ha scritto:

What sort of average rating does he have?

When it goes well 6.7 (always without assists or goals) otherwise most of the time from 6.5 down even if we won in a convincing way with a difference of 2 or 3 goals and the others have all evaluations around 7 or more.

[herne79]

20 minutes ago, sovy666 said:

I have this tactic that works pretty well

How well is pretty well?  Are you meeting / exceeding expectations?  Looks like you are playing as Juventus (sorry I mean Zebre ) so are you top of the league, doing well in Europe?

The reason I ask is that the player in question may not actually be a "problem".  If your team is consistently performing well it's unlikely that any single player is consistently playing poorly regardless of what some calculated rating is saying (which by the way we have no idea how it's actually calculated, just some educated guesses).  Yes a team can carry a "bad" player for a game or two, but consistency is always key and if you are consistently performing well I really wouldn't worry too much about a single player's rating.

If it ain't broke don't fix it .

[sovy666]

2 minuti fa, herne79 ha scritto:

How well is pretty well?  Are you meeting / exceeding expectations?  Looks like you are playing as Juventus (sorry I mean Zebre ) so are you top of the league, doing well in Europe?

The reason I ask is that the player in question may not actually be a "problem".  If your team is consistently performing well it's unlikely that any single player is consistently playing poorly regardless of what some calculated rating is saying (which by the way we have no idea how it's actually calculated, just some educated guesses).  Yes a team can carry a "bad" player for a game or two, but consistency is always key and if you are consistently performing well I really wouldn't worry too much about a single player's rating.

If it ain't broke don't fix it .

I'm in my third year, the first without Ronaldo and I've always won Serie A and even this season I'm in first place after 25 games. In Champions League two quarterfinals and also this season I just qualified for the quarterfinals and we'll see how it goes so not bad, better than the Zebre/Juventus of reality but my question was more than anything else what role would you put in that position having to hypothetically choose only that or if you think it can go well even so but you have already answered me to that.

[davenumber40]

One thing I've noticed with my 442 is that my creator tends to have lower ratings when I face teams with 3 in the midfield. You might try to let him roam to try and find space or drag defenders out of the way. Or focus play down the flanks. When you think about it, this is a natural issue with a 442.

If you want to go outside the box, maybe move one of you attackers inside (CMA) and use a wide playmaker.

[sovy666]

10 minuti fa, davenumber40 ha scritto:

One thing I've noticed with my 442 is that my creator tends to have lower ratings when I face teams with 3 in the midfield. You might try to let him roam to try and find space or drag defenders out of the way. Or focus play down the flanks. When you think about it, this is a natural issue with a 442.

If you want to go outside the box, maybe move one of you attackers inside (CMA) and use a wide playmaker.

I don't want to disrupt the tactic because as said it works pretty well. If you were to choose only the role for that central midfielder position without changing anything else would you recommend me to leave it as it is or do you have other suggestions?

[davenumber40]

If your team is performing well, you may just leave it. Two things to look for in the match engine: is he being man marked or does the opposition have a crowded midfield in games where he isn't performing well. This is the downside to a 442. Youre giving up numbers in the central midfield in exchange for 2 strikers and to create overloads out wide. 

If he is being marked out, the role itself won't change that. Personally I would try ticking roam from position in the individual player instructions if you think he can't find any space. Watch it carefully because the downside would be he is out of position in attacking to defending transitions. 

[sovy666]

12 minuti fa, davenumber40 ha scritto:

If your team is performing well, you may just leave it. Two things to look for in the match engine: is he being man marked or does the opposition have a crowded midfield in games where he isn't performing well. This is the downside to a 442. Youre giving up numbers in the central midfield in exchange for 2 strikers and to create overloads out wide. 

If he is being marked out, the role itself won't change that. Personally I would try ticking roam from position in the individual player instructions if you think he can't find any space. Watch it carefully because the downside would be he is out of position in attacking to defending transitions. 

I've already tried CCQ but it happens just what you say, every now and then he's too advanced and leaves room for a counter or he's not in a good position to recycle the ball. Maybe I could try alternating CM and CCQ depending on the situation and see if there are improvements.

[davenumber40]

20 minutes ago, sovy666 said:

I've already tried CCQ but it happens just what you say, every now and then he's too advanced and leaves room for a counter or he's not in a good position to recycle the ball. Maybe I could try alternating CM and CCQ depending on the situation and see if there are improvements.

That's what I would do. Leave your tactic as is but make the adjustment if your struggling and need a goal.

[Prolix]

24 minutes ago, sovy666 said:

CCQ

What does this mean? (I assume it's a non-English translation of a role?) 

[sovy666]

6 minuti fa, Prolix ha scritto:

What does this mean? (I assume it's a non-English translation of a role?) 

😀 Sorry, I wrote it with the Italian abbreviation. It's a box-to-box midfielder.

[Prolix]

1 minute ago, sovy666 said:

😀 Sorry, I wrote it with the Italian abbreviation. It's a box-to-box midfielder.

That was my guess! What is the full name in Italian, out of curiosity? Fun to learn something new. 

[sovy666]

1 minuto fa, Prolix ha scritto:

That was my guess! What is the full name in Italian, out of curiosity? Fun to learn something new. 

CentroCampista di Quantità

[toshimitzou1]

With Tolisso in the line up I would give him a run out as a BWM - Support. You have ample creativity around him, both forwards are at least quasi - providers, as well as the attacking Wide Midfielders and the CM Defend. Plus, this could engineer more turnovers with pressure being applied more consistently centrally, with the security of a holding midfielder next to him and a neutral FB providing cover. 

In terms of PI's it is really down to what you need from the role, I would be tempted to employ: Take Fewer Risks, Get Further Forwards and Dribbles Less. For me you would have a mobile destructor, who can both start and finish moves without unnecessary possessional turnover. 

This is all dependent on the PI's and player traits of his team - mates. EG. If Chiesa is told to cut - inside I would also instruct the BWM - Support to stay wider in possession and possibly Hold Position, offering an out ball for recycling play that could be resupplied to the slowly attacking FB - Support.

Let me know what you think.

[Experienced Defender]

@sovy666 What if your RCM's bad ratings are not caused by his role but something else? Think about that 

Anyway, I personally am always against changing a tactic that produces good results, whatever any individual player's ratings are. 

[toshimitzou1]

@Experienced Defender

You are a staunch advocate of not changing a winning recipe and I applaud this; I am however, more akin to @sovy666 in that I want a winning tactic and each player to get a high rating within the team performance. I agree with the need to question whether,

5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

your RCM's bad ratings are not caused by his role but something else?

What I have offered is what I would purvey as a work-a-round to getting a higher player rating without drastically compromising the integrity of the existing tactic. In my experience, FM21 is far more attuned to rating a players performance based on the expectations of the role. A CM - Support in the midst of many other creative roles will struggle to achieve high ratings even though he is an effective cog in the team tactic. The shift to a BWM Support could enable a higher rating as the performance in games will not be as heavily biassed towards creativity and would take more of the defensive performance into account. A couple of successful interceptions and/or tackles in each match would see a steady 7 rating emerge at the very least.

This is however, not set in stone and is largely my opinion based on experience.

I too would be loathe to change anything unless the low rating was translating into poor results. I can however, relate to the desire to achieve high ratings across all players within a tactic.

@sovy666 . I hope this gives you further food for thought.

 

[sovy666]

10 ore fa, toshimitzou1 ha scritto:

With Tolisso in the line up I would give him a run out as a BWM - Support. You have ample creativity around him, both forwards are at least quasi - providers, as well as the attacking Wide Midfielders and the CM Defend. Plus, this could engineer more turnovers with pressure being applied more consistently centrally, with the security of a holding midfielder next to him and a neutral FB providing cover. 

In terms of PI's it is really down to what you need from the role, I would be tempted to employ: Take Fewer Risks, Get Further Forwards and Dribbles Less. For me you would have a mobile destructor, who can both start and finish moves without unnecessary possessional turnover. 

This is all dependent on the PI's and player traits of his team - mates. EG. If Chiesa is told to cut - inside I would also instruct the BWM - Support to stay wider in possession and possibly Hold Position, offering an out ball for recycling play that could be resupplied to the slowly attacking FB - Support.

Let me know what you think.

I have already tried BWM support in that position but without PI and no Chiesa does not have PI. Now that I have almost won the Serie A I will try what you suggested in home games against teams in the lower parts of the league table to see how it goes.

Edited May 15, 2021 by sovy666

[sovy666]

9 ore fa, Experienced Defender ha scritto:

What if your RCM's bad ratings are not caused by his role but something else?

Knowing you a bit through the answers you give I think for you the two strikers both in a supporting role are not the best balance.At the beginning of this save the full forward was an attacking role, Ronaldo was there so I tried AF, poacher for him and for Morata PF A also but they were easily marked out of the game especially in home games against ultra-defensive teams so most in the case of Juventus and so I changed to CF S that despite being a support role remains closer to the goal and creates a nice partnership with F9 that has Move into channels as PI that instead retreats a lot in midfield at least in the initial stages of the attack and leaves room for WM A that has Sit narrower as PI.

[toshimitzou1]

Good Luck,

[sovy666]

3 ore fa, toshimitzou1 ha scritto:

Good Luck,

With your proposed change Tolisso for the first time Player of the match.

[toshimitzou1]

Good news.  Did the rest of the tactic maintain it's integrity? I would be interested to see a match analysis with player statistics if you want further advice on the way Tolisso is playing within the tactic.

Let me know.

[sovy666]

2 minuti fa, toshimitzou1 ha scritto:

Good news.  Did the rest of the tactic maintain it's integrity? I would be interested to see a match analysis with player statistics if you want further advice on the way Tolisso is playing within the tactic.

Let me know.

I don't use match analysis much, I'm more old school, basing myself on what I see and intervening on recurring game situations, both positive and negative, but without dissecting everything down to the smallest detail. This is also why I play the Touch version. Let's leave it like that and see how it goes in the long run and not only after the first game.

[Puluzu]

My positive mentality 442 cm roles are DLP(d) and B2B with everyone doing well. Last season Kroos who had already lost a few steps ended with 7,6 average rating from DLPd (did take corners which inflates it) and Valverde 7,15 from b2b. In my other pairing Camavinga was 7,0 as dlp and Odegaard was 7,5 (again some set piece responsibilities) at b2b.

 

AF DLFa

IWa DLPd B2B WMa

WBa BPDd CDd WBa

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Puluzu