DM position in 433 rating?

[ThomasHK1979]

I’m playing 433 DM with Milan and I just narrowly won the scudetto.

BUT, in FM 20 the DM position (either as DLP or Regista) were among my best performers with an avr. rating between 7.80-8.00 per season.
Now playing FM21 my DM position only performs between 6.70-6.80 per season. Same team, same tactic and same players in the DM position (Bennacer or Tonali) 

What the hell is wrong? The DM position is the position with the lowest average. 
And dont say “what does it matter when you win”. It DOES matter to me.

[bendixkunert2]

how is your entire setup?

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Why does rating of an individual matter to you if your team is winning and otherwise performing?

Post your tactic. What are you seeing from the players playing that position this year that might be different?

Personally I'm not doing anything significantly different this year compared to last and my Half-backs have generally been averaging around the 7.4 mark.

[evilpimp972]

à l’instant, NotSoSpecialOne a dit :

Why does rating of an individual matter to you if your team is winning and otherwise performing?

Post your tactic. What are you seeing from the players playing that position this year that might be different?

Personally I'm not doing anything significantly different this year compared to last and my Half-backs have generally been averaging around the 7.4 mark.

Why do everyone ask about the ratings ? 

Its easy to know why, players in fm get awards based on production = ratings.

It does matter

[ThomasHK1979]

54 minutes ago, evilpimp972 said:

Why do everyone ask about the ratings ? 

Its easy to know why, players in fm get awards based on production = ratings.

It does matter

Exactly. I’m so tired of this question back. I even wrote it in my topic🙄. IT MATTER TO ME!!!

[Justified]

It's difficult to answer that question without seeing the tactic. Or even some match stats would help.

[evilpimp972]

il y a 50 minutes, ThomasHK1979 a dit :

Exactly. I’m so tired of this question back. I even wrote it in my topic🙄. IT MATTER TO ME!!!

Some people play the game to see their players perform well.

Its so nice to have a midfield with a 7.5 + rating 

[ThomasHK1979]

21 minutes ago, evilpimp972 said:

Some people play the game to see their players perform well.

Its so nice to have a midfield with a 7.5 + rating 

YES. I play the game to get good ratings. Good ratings = awards and big sells. 

[denen123]

Post your tactic.

The match engine changes from year to year. Adapting your tactic helps in this respect.

[ThomasHK1979]

6 minutes ago, denen123 said:

Post your tactic.

The match engine changes from year to year. Adapting your tactic helps in this respect.

 

6 minutes ago, denen123 said:

Post your tactic.

The match engine changes from year to year. Adapting your tactic helps in this respect.

Here you go

 

[denen123]

1 hour ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

 

Here you go

 

Asides a few instructions,  it doesn't look off.

More than likely that your front three will be heavily isolated against smaller, low block teams. Also no real threat or runner from middle(usually a CMa or MEZa), a heavy delay in your fullbacks meeting up with your wingers and  a concerning lack of destroyer in the middle(BBM is a shuttler). The DM, however, ought to still play the regular wide passes, and I you're scoring well, he should have some key passes stats that help boost his average rating.

[Jaydenoren]

1 hour ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

 

Here you go

 

Have you tried him on a defence duty? Maybe on a support duty he’ll get involved in attacks but might not do that effectively as quite literally every other outfield player except the the centre backs are going forward. So without changing other roles you have since you are doing well (except for changing your striker to a support duty since I saw you make a post on that, have him come deep so more space is created for your wide attack duty players) that is what I would suggest, unless you’re willing to change other roles in your setup.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Jaydenoren

[ThomasHK1979]

4 minutes ago, Jaydenoren said:

Have you tried him on a defence duty? Maybe on a support duty he’ll get involved in attacks but might not do that effectively as quite literally every other outfield player except the the centre backs are going forward. So without changing other roles you have since you are doing well (except for changing your striker to a support duty since I saw you make a post on that, have him come deep so more space is created for your wide attack duty players) that is what I would suggest, unless you’re willing to change other roles in your setup.

I’m willing to change every role. Hit me :-)

[Jaydenoren]

18 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

I’m willing to change every role. Hit me :-)

First I’d just do the suggestions you got before you do anything but if you still aren’t satisfied then it matters down to what you want from your team I guess, do you want both of your wingers cutting in? In that case I would probably switch the right centre mid to one that won’t get as forward as a mezzala, obviously central penetration is important but it isn’t the end of the world if you have two wingers that cut inside on attack duties, that’s just my opinion though. If however you want to keep the mezzala then I’d slap an attack duty on him and switch the right winger to a support duty (I’d personally have him as a winger but it can definitely work with an IW) and then switch the right back to an IWB(s)
 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Jaydenoren

[Justified]

2 hours ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

 

Here you go

 

Tbh your tactic is very unbalanced.

In Possession - Short Passing, Pass Into Space and Work Into The Box makes absolutely no sense at all.

In Transition - You already have PooD and Shorter Passing so why are you selecting Shorter Kicks and distributing to Centre Backs and Full-Backs? Also why play a SKsu when having this instructions?

Out of Possession - Against better teams playing out of the back you'll be punished as a 433 doesn't really lend itself very well to Preventing Short GK distribution.

As for the roles, you're set up to be direct however you're playing short, out from the back and working into the box. Your front three will storm the box and literally be packed in there with the opposition whilst your transition is playing short quick passes. Again, makes no sense. No wonder your DMC gets low ratings.

[ThomasHK1979]

24 minutes ago, Justified said:

Tbh your tactic is very unbalanced.

In Possession - Short Passing, Pass Into Space and Work Into The Box makes absolutely no sense at all.

In Transition - You already have PooD and Shorter Passing so why are you selecting Shorter Kicks and distributing to Centre Backs and Full-Backs? Also why play a SKsu when having this instructions?

Out of Possession - Against better teams playing out of the back you'll be punished as a 433 doesn't really lend itself very well to Preventing Short GK distribution.

As for the roles, you're set up to be direct however you're playing short, out from the back and working into the box. Your front three will storm the box and literally be packed in there with the opposition whilst your transition is playing short quick passes. Again, makes no sense. No wonder your DMC gets low ratings.

So what do you suggest?

[Justified]

3 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

So what do you suggest?

Honestly depends on what you style you want to go for. At the moment you're a bit of a mish-mash of possession and counter-attacking when it comes to roles, duties and instructions.

[ThomasHK1979]

1 hour ago, Justified said:

Honestly depends on what you style you want to go for. At the moment you're a bit of a mish-mash of possession and counter-attacking when it comes to roles, duties and instructions.

I want quick short passing with lots of goals. 

[sporadicsmiles]

8 hours ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

And dont say “what does it matter when you win”. It DOES matter to me.

It literally does not matter if you think he is doing his job well, then he is doing his job well. My DMC in this formation is one of my key players, but it is never reflected in the stats. He gets no assists and scores no goals. He does act as a pivot and we turn play around him all the time. 

If you think a player's performances are a excellent and are not rewarded by the game, make a bug report and show evidence of matches where you think the performance and rating do not match up. 

Although an average rating of 6.7 in a side that wins the league really does suggest the ME does not like what the player is doing. How many assists do they have? 

[Justified]

36 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

I want quick short passing with lots of goals. 

Ok so something short, quick with a bit of a punch. Ok this is what I would, with a slightly limited knowledge of Milan.

For roles and duties, you can keep the SKsu but I'd drop the BPD because you want to build up from the back with short and fast passes. The rest at the back are fine. I'd move the DLPsu into the left centre mid spot and just have a pure DMC in that anchor role. For the other mid role I'd go for CMatt (add take more risks). I'm pretty sure Saelemaekers is a Winger right? Play him as Wsu. I'd actually swap Leao and Calhanoglu and play a DLFsu. Using these roles you'll get a lot of movement.

You can keep the positive mentality, that's fine. I would loose the WBIB and only use it situationally. I'd go wide instead of narrow just because it widens the field and stretches the opposition instead of trying to funnel everything through the middle. Add Overlap left which'll bridge the gap between your DL and AML.

Drop Short Kicks and Counter from transition.

Drop More Urgent + PSD and go split press instead (Close down more + Tight Marking on the front 3 plus the CMatt)

Edited December 14, 2020 by Justified

[ThomasHK1979]

18 minutes ago, Justified said:

Ok so something short, quick with a bit of a punch. Ok this is what I would, with a slightly limited knowledge of Milan.

For roles and duties, you can keep the SKsu but I'd drop the BPD because you want to build up from the back with short and fast passes. The rest at the back are fine. I'd move the DLPsu into the left centre mid spot and just have a pure DMC in that anchor role. For the other mid role I'd go for CMatt (add take more risks). I'm pretty sure Saelemaekers is a Winger right? Play him as Wsu. I'd actually swap Leao and Calhanoglu and play a DLFsu. Using these roles you'll get a lot of movement.

You can keep the positive mentality, that's fine. I would loose the WBIB and only use it situationally. I'd go wide instead of narrow just because it widens the field and stretches the opposition instead of trying to funnel everything through the middle. Add Overlap left which'll bridge the gap between your DL and AML.

Drop Short Kicks and Counter from transition.

Drop More Urgent and go split press instead (Close down more + Tight Marking on the front 3 plus the CMatt)

1) Could I use RPM instead of the DLP in the left centre mid spot?

2) How about Mezzala instead of CMa ?

[Justified]

1 minute ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

1) Could I use RPM instead of the DLP in the left centre mid spot?

2) How about Mezzala instead of CMa ?

I'm worried you are making a common mistake which a lot of FM'ers do and that is looking at roles in isolation. It's not a case of just playing loads of fancy roles, you have to actually understand what these roles are doing and how they're interacting with the roles around them.

The reason I would pick a DLPsu instead of a RPM is because the LB is going to bomb forward and the AML is already on an attack duty which means that flank is crying out for someone holding, which a DLP does. A RPM would roam which means that flank would be very vulnerable.

If you go with a Mez then the AMR would have to be a IW or IF however Saelemaekers is clearly a winger. The only time I would have a Mez with a winger on the same side is if the striker is on an attacking role. However you're not direct enough to play that way. Again, roles are a small fragment of a bigger picture.

[tamertunatt]

On 15/12/2020 at 00:36, Justified said:

I'm worried you are making a common mistake which a lot of FM'ers do and that is looking at roles in isolation. It's not a case of just playing loads of fancy roles, you have to actually understand what these roles are doing and how they're interacting with the roles around them.

The reason I would pick a DLPsu instead of a RPM is because the LB is going to bomb forward and the AML is already on an attack duty which means that flank is crying out for someone holding, which a DLP does. A RPM would roam which means that flank would be very vulnerable.

If you go with a Mez then the AMR would have to be a IW or IF however Saelemaekers is clearly a winger. The only time I would have a Mez with a winger on the same side is if the striker is on an attacking role. However you're not direct enough to play that way. Again, roles are a small fragment of a bigger picture.

Sir @JustifiedI have a question for you.I tried a 4-3-3 DM like @ThomasHK1979My midfield three HB(d)-DLP(Su)-Mez(A) left winger is IW(su),right winger is W(Su).As you said that when Mez and Winger play on the same side,striker's duty should be attack,but I appointed my striker as a DLF(su).Is it nonsense that my striker's role is DLF(su)

[Justified]

15 hours ago, tamertunatt said:

Sir @JustifiedI have a question for you.I tried a 4-3-3 DM like @ThomasHK1979My midfield three HB(d)-DLP(Su)-Mez(A) left winger is IW(su),right winger is W(Su).As you said that when Mez and Winger play on the same side,striker's duty should be attack,but I appointed my striker as a DLF(su).Is it nonsense that my striker's role is DLF(su)

The only thing I'd say is you're a little one dimensional. You're relying pretty much on the IW and Mez combo to score goals. Everyone else is supporting. 

[tamertunatt]

40 minutes ago, Justified said:

The only thing I'd say is you're a little one dimensional. You're relying pretty much on the IW and Mez combo to score goals. Everyone else is supporting. 

Sir @Justified I am sorry but I cant' explain myself.Winger(S)and Mezzela(A) as a combo.Opposite winger is IW(a).What should be my striker's role?

[Justified]

2 hours ago, tamertunatt said:

Sir @Justified I am sorry but I cant' explain myself.Winger(S)and Mezzela(A) as a combo.Opposite winger is IW(a).What should be my striker's role?

I'd have an attacking role personally. But you have to have instructions to match that as it makes it more counter type of football so you need a passing style that matches.